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Hi all

I'm contemplating this list as my go to tournament list for the upcoming store season. What do you think?

Fenn Rau + ptl + title + thrusters
Genesis Red + VI + HLC + heavy Scyk
Ndru + VI + homing missile + scavenger crane + guidance chips
Sunny bounder + light Scyk

= 100

Three huge ps9 threats and a ps1 blocker to run interference. Potential for 17 attack dice in a single turn if the stars align. I'm not sure what I would do when facing it for target priority - Ndru is the easiest to kill but you'll be turning your.back on Fenn Rau and an HLC.

Weaknesses - Biggs, especially with the damage reduction bot and coupled with a stress hog. What else? PS10 RAC? Other PS9 with an initiate bid (so fenn Rau)?

The main issue I have had with running lists like this is that if the stars don't align you will find all your ships are very squishy. All of them are able to be one shotted. I haven't played with Genisis yet so cant comment, but Ndru and Sunny have to work really hard to stay alive and they frequently don't. The fact that N'dru has to fly by himself tends to mean he dies very quickly or gets ignored.
Most Commonwealth players I have seen would eat this list for breakfast and I cant think of many lists that flown competently would be afraid.

How would the commonwealth defenders eat it for breakfast? Am I allowed to fly the list competently as well?

Didn't mean to imply that you lack skill mate, its just how the list looks like it should fly.
So you have two ships that want to get up in your opponents face (Fenn and Sunny) and two that want to hover around the range three/two mark. Only one of your ships has good action economy (Fenn) and N'dru has no repositioning ability at all.

So your list will be split into three groups, N'Dru by himself, Genisis likewise both trying to snipe from the back and the others mixing it up close. One bad roll on the green dice will eliminate one of your ships and that is not an infrequent event. Similarly any forced through damage (Darth/Kylo/Bombs/ feedback etc) or stress/Ion control will really put a crimp in things as will the likes of Zuckuss. Most lists can tank a fair bit of firepower before loosing effectiveness (like a TIE/d with six damage behind three green), your list cant and aside from Fenn has little to no way of mitigating that.

I'm just not sold on Scyk, even with the new upgrades and pilots.

And Fenn... if you roll bad, you just lose him very quickly. I remember a game where I just gave up on salvaging my Shadowcaster because he was coming hard toward it and I figured it was going to be a sacrificial lamb. But he rolled so badly, that even after three turns at range one, he still hadn't lowered it past half points and I was able to scrub Fenn off the board.

ingtaer wrote:
Didn't mean to imply that you lack skill mate, its just how the list looks like it should fly.
So you have two ships that want to get up in your opponents face (Fenn and Sunny) and two that want to hover around the range three/two mark. Only one of your ships has good action economy (Fenn) and N'dru has no repositioning ability at all.

So your list will be split into three groups, N'Dru by himself, Genisis likewise both trying to snipe from the back and the others mixing it up close. One bad roll on the green dice will eliminate one of your ships and that is not an infrequent event. Similarly any forced through damage (Darth/Kylo/Bombs/ feedback etc) or stress/Ion control will really put a crimp in things as will the likes of Zuckuss. Most lists can tank a fair bit of firepower before loosing effectiveness (like a TIE/d with six damage behind three green), your list cant and aside from Fenn has little to no way of mitigating that.

There was supposed to be a smiley face at the end of my comment - no offense taken

That said, you've made a few assumptions that I disagree with:

1. Ndru has a great pilot ability, but you don't have to engage it meaning that, at the very least, he's a ps 9 ordnance carrier - nothing to be scoffed at. With that in mind getting synchronized shots off with Ndru, Red and Fenn Rau (at range one) isn't as tough as you might think.
2. A tie/d defender will not survive this alpha strike. An X7 defender will be lucky.
3. Defenders are predictable meaning the stars align reasonably easily so long as you don't overcommit in the opening moves.
4. Having two ships who want to maintain range and two ships that want to be in close sounds like the beginning of a coherent build to me - not a flawed one. Scyks and protectorates strike me as being complimentary.
5. I'm not too concerned about darth and kylo but only in the sense that I don't expect to see much of them if at all. They're a meta call and I don't see a good space for them right now, especially with tlt and stress making a return.
6. Bombs are an issue, but again the traditional carriers are all easy enough to have off the board before they've fired - Biggs is a big problem here though and is clearly going to be popular.

That said, it's clearly a risky list. I do agree with you that it's fragile. But that suits me as I think it'll be an enjoyable romp at a store tournament with an outside chance of a win if I fly it well.







Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I'm just not sold on Scyk, even with the new upgrades and pilots.

And Fenn... if you roll bad, you just lose him very quickly. I remember a game where I just gave up on salvaging my Shadowcaster because he was coming hard toward it and I figured it was going to be a sacrificial lamb. But he rolled so badly, that even after three turns at range one, he still hadn't lowered it past half points and I was able to scrub Fenn off the board.

Genesis Red looks great, I'm a fan. I'm only putting Sunny in as he's ps1, has a tight one turn and can barrel roll. His pilot ability is at most a welcome bonus if it ever triggers.

Ultimately the list lives on damage output. Failiure to wipe out an opponents signifiacnt threat relatively early will end badly.

Well and good mate but;
1. Its a 25pt Z-95, if you are not using his ability then 25pts for a headhunter is a lot, it has little action economy and zero repositioning. If you don't get your alpha strike or it fails to do any significant damage then you are stuck with a very mediocre ship. I prefer to use clusters myself but that is because I always expect to face big base/ low agility ships and if/when I fail to get the strike in there is no going back.

2. Sorry for the confusion here I am used to using the designation for the ship, not for the title due to playing RPGs (TIE/ln, TIE/ph etc). I meant Defenders in general and if you get all the ships firing at the same target then it will be lucky to survive but can you guarantee it?

3. Yep defenders can be predictable especially when played by people who think the only way to play them is to endlessly K- turn, played well though and with TIE/mkII they are much harder prospect.

4. I agree with you here if you are willing to sacrifice N'Dru's ability (see point 1), the trouble is though that they are still really squishy!

5. You will know your meta better than me! However I would urge you to consider how you would play against Thug Life or similar lists, could get messy real fast.

6. All the bombing I see at the moment is done by TripK and I don't reckon your alpha can take out two Ks in the first engagement.

Yeah mate, practice, practice, practice! The only way to get good. Have you played with the list before or are you just theory crafting at the moment? I would be interested to know what you have gone up against and how you fared.

So I played this a lot:

Dengar, Ptl, gonk, eu, unhinged
Ndru, vi, clusters, glitterstim, guidance chips
Kaato deadeye, concussion, guidance chips

I won a few local store champs with it and consistently Went 4-1/5-1 in Swiss in regionals and a few 100+ tournaments. It was designed to beat deadeye scouts which it did incredibly well - not many better feelings in x-wing than removing a deadeye jm5k before it has shot. And yup, the damage output vs large ships with low agility was phenomenal.

The list ultimately struggled with X7 defenders so it evolved into:

Fenn Rau, ptl, title, autothrusters
Ndru vi, homing, guidance chips
Kaato, deadeye, homing, chips
Zealous recruit, title

I played a single 100+ regional and made top8. It absolutely kicked the crap out of defenders - granted most were two defenders plus shuttle - but it explains my surprise at your initial comment.

I've played in the region of 100 games with the two named Zs and they do pretty nicely. Turn zero is a reasonably big deal to plan the rocks in a way that optimises the chances of getting the right opening engagement so that part of it I am reasonably experienced with.

Anyhow you can see the evolution. I'm upgrading the list by swapping kaato for genesis Red (big improvement) and adding scavenger crane to Ndru makes him more than a one shot threat. The biggest downside is losing the zealot to sunny bounder. The zealot consistently surpassed my expectations. I never regretted investing 21 points in it.

Thug life is an interesting one. I will absolutely have one off the board before it has fired, that's easily done. What happens next is where it gets challenging.