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Land Crawler 2.0- 400pts

F13 S12 R13 HP 15 (Super heavy tank, Heavy, Transport)

Transport capacity:40

Access points:
Right and left Side hatch doors

Wargear:
-Faulty ion shield: start of enemy shooting phase, player picks an armor face; and receives a 4+ invulnerable save against any shots against that side. If a 1 is rolled on any of the saves made, the shield has failed and no longer provides protections. The shield may be restored by any matter that could instead restore a hull point, such as a tech-priest or the "it will not die" special rule. Choosing to restore the shield is done so instead of restoring a hull point.

-Smoke launchers

Special rules:
-Separate bays: One unit may exit from each of the Land Crawler hatch doors each turn.

-Tough as nails and easy to repair: Land Crawler has the "It will not die" special rule

-Iron Tomb: Should the last of the Land Crawler's hull points be lost, it does not explode like other super heavies. Instead it becomes a wrecked vehicle and all passengers inside take str 10 AP2 hits instead of a str 4 hit.

-Smoke and shroud: Once per game the Armored Crawler can provide all infantry unit within 6" a 5+ cover save, cannot be used if smoke launchers have been deployed; doing so counts smoke launchers as being used.

-Venerable Belly: All close-combat attacks are resolved against the Land Crawlers belly Armor value of 11.

------First Try Below---------
Armored Land Crawler- 400pts

F14 S14 R14 HP9 (Super heavy tank, transport)

Transport capacity:40

Access points:
Right and left Side hatch doors

Wargear:
-ion shield: start of enemy shooting phase, player picks an armor face; and receives a 5+ invulnerable save against any shots against that side.
-Smoke launchers

Special rules:
-Separate bays: One unit may exit from each of the armored crawler hatch doors each turn.

-Smoke and shroud: Once per game the Armored Crawler can provide all infantry unit within 6" a 5+ cover save, cannot be used if smoke launchers have been deployed; doing so counts smoke launchers as being used.

The idea was to have the large industrial/ agricultural vehicle of the imperium, the Land Crawler; reinforced with some heavy plating, a hastily insulted shield generator and have portable smoke launchers welded in placed on it's hull. One of those vehicles pressed into service, but like the Arvus lighter is completely a non combat vehicle; hence no weapons and no fire ports.

I've seen a few other try to make other industria/ agricultural vehicles pressed into service, but they all amounted to what would be a simple truck; even if they tried to call it a land crawler, from all the novels I've imagined landcrawlers to be closer in scale to baneblade or perhaps even bigger.

I'm sorry, but a hastily armored and equipped farming vehicle should not be the armor equivalent of a Land Raider, nor should it have a Knight-class Ion shield, nor a smoke generator somehow more potent and widespread than any other existing one. None of those make sense for a civilian vehicle pressed into service. Because as it stands, this "hasty" job is better than almost all other transports in the game.

This one needs a lot of work.

Is it balanced? Mechanically, I'd say yes. 400 points for a 14/14/14 9 HP Superheavy is a bit cheap, but it has no guns, and isn't an assault vehicle.

Fluff-wise? I gotta agree, it's ridiculous for it to have an Ion Shield and such good armour. The only thing that would make sense is the Smoke Launchers-I can see it having big, billowing engines that can be retrofitted to provide cover.

Short question here is "Why are you not using the Gorgon rules?"

Time to address issues, thank you guys for taking the time to respond; please suggestions on how to fix it would be greatly appreciated.

@curran12:
-In the few books that include Land Crawlers, these things are suppose to be massive; dwarfing the Land Raider and capable of surviving the most serious of damage, the reason the STC wasn't used for combat was because of its slow movement. The STC was discovered right alongside the Land-raider and the Land-speeder, both excessively marine vehicles; and most marines chapters rely heavily on speed.

-If the arvus lighter, a vehicle literally described as being a pressed civilian aerial vehicle can have chaff launchers, guns and other things attached to it; then why can a land crawler which is bigger and more stable, have extra plating (accounting for the higher armor value, extra armor doesn't work on super heavy) and smoke launchers.

-Personally, I agree with you on the Ion shield; but when I ran this pass my local gaming group, a lot of them insisted I add in some form of shielding. They reasoned that the land crawlers often work in very inhospitable environments and that it need some more durability, I refuse to give it void shields; and since i have a Titan Legio (yes, I'm "that" guy; 2 reavers, 2 warhounds, 5 knights), I reasoned that it wouldn't be a hard leap for my regiment to salvage an ion shield from the wreckage of a knight.

- i will admit that perhaps hastily may have been bad descriptor, as they would have permanently insulted anything; covering up anything they're not suppose to have with a tarp any time the commissar walks by.

@JNAproductions:
-Balanced, when I ran it thru VDR it actually came to about 360; I though adding 40pts would make it more acceptable to play, because its uniqueness is costly.

@AnomanderRake:
-Well, I already have a Gorgon; and I was hoping for a more enclosed version of a super heavy transport. I drew a lot of my inspiration for the vehicle from the design of the Crassus Armored Assault transport and the Gorgon; making a vehicle in the middle of the two.

Figured out photobucket, here is a photo of the behemoth; originally was going to put two turrets on the top, but decided against it in favor of a pure carrier.



Small note: I am not voting, so the results in the poll are strictly everyone's opinion other than mine.

Post modified because of grammar errors.

Why not just drop the whole transport thing and make it a massive gun platform? You did say the thing was so damn slow that it wasn't used in combat, but the Imperium still uses Leman Russes and those have to be the slowest tanks in existence. Slap a battle cannon for two on it along with a bunch of other guns and call it a day.

Yes its tough but it also lacks emi think fire points, any real armament of weaponry and purely defensive special abilities.

Maybe add a rule. I know more is bad...
Adapted engineering. Due to the adapted nature the powerful sheild can also be unreliable. On a fail roll one one its offline.

Maybe comes back on a after a turn, a roll or bot at all.

Seems fair ernough.

@Tactical_Spam:
- It is very tempting to just put a set whirlwind or predator turrets on top, or even my extra Macharius turret and call it a day. But home-brewing rules for a tank got infinitely more complicated when I started trying to add in a weapon system. Hell, I even considered building up sand bags and putting guard heavy weapon teams on top it; using the tank as mobile battlements.

@jhe90:
- I like where you're going with this, a critical overload in the system on the roll of a 1; shutting down the shield, next turn make a repair roll like a rhino to restore the shield. For a while I did consider giving the Land-Crawler Yarrick's old force field rules "shots fired from more than 6 inches away reduce Str by 1", didn't test well.


Post modified because of Grammar Errors

wulfen808 wrote:
@Tactical_Spam:
- It is very tempting to just put a set whirlwind or predator turrets on top, or even my extra Macharius turret and call it a day. But home-brewing rules for a tank got infinitely more complicated when I started trying to add in a weapon system. Hell, I even considered building up sand bags and putting guard heavy weapon teams on top it; using the tank as mobile battlements.

@jhe90:
- I like where you're going with this, a critical overload in the system on the roll of a 1; shutting down the shield, next turn make a repair roll like a rhino to restore the shield. For a while I did consider giving the Land-Crawler Yarrick's old force field rules "shots fired from more than 6 inches away reduce Str by 1", didn't test well.


Post modified because of Grammar Errors

It works as well its not a purpose designed machine for the system. Plus it makes it more playable against as its got a chance of failing and separates from genuine warmachines like a baneblade etc.

Yeah give it a rhino repair role. Maybe you get a bonus if a enginseer or tech marine on board as of there standard rules .

I think you should consider an option for adding a pintle-mounted (storm) bolter or other after-factory sponson add-ons (bolters or flamers).

Perhaps an option would be to drop the side AV to 13 and add firing ports?

wulfen808 wrote:

-In the few books that include Land Crawlers, these things are suppose to be massive; dwarfing the Land Raider and capable of surviving the most serious of damage, the reason the STC wasn't used for combat was because of its slow movement. The STC was discovered right alongside the Land-raider and the Land-speeder, both excessively marine vehicles; and most marines chapters rely heavily on speed.

Is that slower speed accounted for in the rules you're suggesting anywhere? I don't see that addressed.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

wulfen808 wrote:

-In the few books that include Land Crawlers, these things are suppose to be massive; dwarfing the Land Raider and capable of surviving the most serious of damage, the reason the STC wasn't used for combat was because of its slow movement. The STC was discovered right alongside the Land-raider and the Land-speeder, both excessively marine vehicles; and most marines chapters rely heavily on speed.

Is that slower speed accounted for in the rules you're suggesting anywhere? I don't see that addressed.

This. There's no sign of anything that makes this vehicle inordinately slow moving.

Maybe add a rule in that means it can only move 6 inches, to represent its slowness?

I also agree that it shouldn't have shielding and a better AV than a Land Raider. If you do go with shielding, make it liable to short-circuit.

As for making it durable, reduce the AV all over to something like 13 or 12, but add lots and lots of HP. This is a big vehicle, but it's not military grade armour. Therefore, where it lacks armour, it's sheer bulk makes up for the HP. Maybe consider adding Flare Shields or Armoured Ceramite to boost it's defence.

That doesn't look like a modified tractor, mechanics nor the model.

If you look at the arvus, trojan, or centaur, you're looking at just bad armor on a vehicle not meant for front-line combat. I think the arvus is a great example of a repurposed vehicle, except that it's a bit overpriced.

You should just call that thing a crassus and equip it properly. It's a nice conversion, but neither the aesthetic nor rules look like a modified civilian anything to me.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

wulfen808 wrote:

-In the few books that include Land Crawlers, these things are suppose to be massive; dwarfing the Land Raider and capable of surviving the most serious of damage, the reason the STC wasn't used for combat was because of its slow movement. The STC was discovered right alongside the Land-raider and the Land-speeder, both excessively marine vehicles; and most marines chapters rely heavily on speed.

Is that slower speed accounted for in the rules you're suggesting anywhere? I don't see that addressed.

This. There's no sign of anything that makes this vehicle inordinately slow moving.

Maybe add a rule in that means it can only move 6 inches, to represent its slowness?

I also agree that it shouldn't have shielding and a better AV than a Land Raider. If you do go with shielding, make it liable to short-circuit.

As for making it durable, reduce the AV all over to something like 13 or 12, but add lots and lots of HP. This is a big vehicle, but it's not military grade armour. Therefore, where it lacks armour, it's sheer bulk makes up for the HP. Maybe consider adding Flare Shields or Armoured Ceramite to boost it's defence.

Also if made slow. Well make it relentless if its gonna be slow. Ie rules so it ignores hazzed terrain, barriers, disadvantage is its slow. Advantage its built off a tractor. Its gonna be pretty hard to stop, grind over obstacles and barriers like a beomoth.
So alsmost can always roll 6 inches regardless unless you hit somthibf totally unmoveable.

@Stormonu
-Perhaps, a pointless mount might be the most I would put in it; and I've considered giving it 13 all around or perhaps even 14-13-14 or even 14-12-14 making it more vulnerable to attacks on sides where the hatches are.

@Ususual Supsect
@Sgt_Smudge
@jhe90

- This is what happens when you copy and paste, so something that doesn't seem to have transfer was the Heavy rule. Just like the Leman Russ Tank and the Monolith, the Land Crawler is suppose to be slow and ponderous; as far terrain and such, being a super heavy rules in my opinion more than takes care of it.

@Sgt_Smudge
-I like the idea of reducing armor and increasing HP, how does 13-12-13 with HP 15
-Wouldn't a flare shield fall in the same area as a void shield? I ain't putting a void shield on this thing, i though maybe my guardsmen could get away with a hand me down ion shield generator from my legio, but a astrates Flare shield or a imperial void shield; I don't want be labeled a heretic.
-Armored Cermite, that might be the simplest and most elegant answer yet; it would account for the Land crawlers ability to operate in extremely conditions. Anyone else want to second replacing unstable ion shield with armored cermite.

If your vehicle has as much armor on the front than at the back, you should add a special rule that makes close combat attack or any attack that targets the weak point of a vehicle use the side armor instead of the back. I would also suggest 12 HP and instead of shielding and armor, a self repair mechanism. A vehicle like this should be extremely easy to repair with a blow torch and scrap metal (Special Rule It Will Not Die comes to mind). It's already a jury rigged tank.

wulfen808 wrote:

@Ususual Supsect
@Sgt_Smudge
@jhe90

- This is what happens when you copy and paste, so something that doesn't seem to have transfer was the Heavy rule. Just like the Leman Russ Tank and the Monolith, the Land Crawler is suppose to be slow and ponderous; as far terrain and such, being a super heavy rules in my opinion more than takes care of it.

What, exactly, in the Super Heavy rules "more than takes care of" the slow fluff speed of the Land Crawler?

Super Heavy Vehicles move at the same speed, mechanics-wise, as every other non-Heavy, non-Fast vehicle in the game. Terrain and the like do not ultimately affect the speed of Super Heavy vehicles, to my knowledge.

Under the rules, the Land Crawler is as fast as a Land Raider.

If anything, their COMBAT speed is made even greater, given they can ALWAYS fire all of their weapon after movement (even if their weapons are limited).

There are abstractions, and there are ignored qualities. You seem to be relying on the former and avoiding the latter.

@Unusual Suspect
-Heavy vehicle can never move faster than combat speed and can never move flat out. (Page 88 Warhammer 40,000 rule book)

-Super-heavy vehicle have the following special rules: Fear, Move Thru Cover (Page 94 Warhammer 40,000 rule book)

I did say i messed up in my copy and paste and left off the heavy vehicle rule, and I'm 99.9% sure being a super heavy and getting the Move thru Cover special rule takes care of any problemds that would a rise out of "terrain and such"

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

wulfen808 wrote:

@Ususual Supsect
@Sgt_Smudge
@jhe90

- This is what happens when you copy and paste, so something that doesn't seem to have transfer was the Heavy rule. Just like the Leman Russ Tank and the Monolith, the Land Crawler is suppose to be slow and ponderous; as far terrain and such, being a super heavy rules in my opinion more than takes care of it.

What, exactly, in the Super Heavy rules "more than takes care of" the slow fluff speed of the Land Crawler?

Super Heavy Vehicles move at the same speed, mechanics-wise, as every other non-Heavy, non-Fast vehicle in the game. Terrain and the like do not ultimately affect the speed of Super Heavy vehicles, to my knowledge.

Under the rules, the Land Crawler is as fast as a Land Raider.

wulfen808 wrote:
@Unusual Suspect

I did say i messed up in my copy and paste and left off the heavy vehicle rule, and I'm 99.9% sure being a super heavy and getting the Move thru Cover special rule takes care of any problemds that would a rise out of "terrain and such"

Oh, I must have missed that.

Any reason you haven't edited the OP to include that crucial bit of info into the profile you're looking for feedback on?

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

wulfen808 wrote:
@Unusual Suspect

I did say i messed up in my copy and paste and left off the heavy vehicle rule, and I'm 99.9% sure being a super heavy and getting the Move thru Cover special rule takes care of any problemds that would a rise out of "terrain and such"

Oh, I must have missed that.

Any reason you haven't edited the OP to include that crucial bit of info into the profile you're looking for feedback on?

Oh, well I've made the adjustments and I'm testing it out with some of my local gaming groups and was going to make a new post; but I'll edit the primary and see if that changes any votes.

I added version 2.0 to the original post at the top, thank you all for the PMs and the help. Please charge your thoughts on 2.0, eventually I'll have playable rules.

I don't have anything to say against your version 2.0. Its pretty much without flaw right now. Nice concept BTW. The only question I would have is if Vulnerable Belly applies to mines too.