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Made in us
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey





Mississippi

We all have biases for our favorite game lines from GW, but what particular games - past or present - do you think GW should put effort into supporting, and most importantly - in what manner?

For me...

Spoiler:

Actually, I think 40K 8E would be a mistake if it continues to attempt to support a game that ranges from infantry units to titans. I think they should split the 28mm scale game out sort of like Bolt Action did. Kill Team/Necromunda and a "Tank War" scale game - lowest level would be a squad of bikes or a transport filled with AT models, up to just under Knight scale.

For the big stompy 28 mm Knights, Titans, Superheavies and the like, I think they should develop a separate, battletech-like game. Or an expanded version of Renegade Knight. Although honestly, I think reviving Epic would be a far better option for this - it's be far more affordable.

I would also like to see them bring back Battlefleet Gothic, with updated models and revise rules. I've really enjoyed the mobile version on computer and I think with the popularity of X-wing/Armada/Wings of Glory/Attack Wing/Sails of Glory/Firestorm Armada style games they could have a successful line and ruleset.

Also, I think they have enough flyer kits that if they put real effort into an "Advanced/Revised" Stormcloud Attack game, it could actually be fun - though a revitalized Aeronautical Imperialis would be a far more affordable scale.

On Fantasy side, I believe they should continue with AoS, though consider rewriting the rules - I think the 28mm scale works best with skirmish sort of games - and a Warhammer Quest adventure game series. If there is interest to bring back a mass battle game, I think they should do it in 10/15mm scale, NOT 28mm.

Lastly, I think GW should keep doing the boxed games, but there should be a shared ruleset between them where possible. Having a version of Shadow War, Burning of Prospero, Betrayal at Calth, Space Hulk and Advanced Space Crusade with interchangable units would give more legs to those games.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik





Minneapolis, MN

They need to stop doing limited releases.

They need to keep pumping out board games, since a lot of those have a high margin of quality in design.

Along with board games, fringe lifestyle games like their specialist range should be looked into more closely. Bfg, shadow wars/necromunda, Gorkamorka, mordheim, etc all give what GW want, which is people buying citadel models, and what the consumers want, an engaging game that doesn't require years worth of hobby effort and a lot of cash.

Mass battle should be their last concern, not their first.

I think they realize that now, or at least that they have been concentrating too much on mass battles and not enough on what the demographic they do not have would love to buy, and that certainly isn't mass battles.

 
   
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[DCM]
Bird from Hell






IMO:

Dump AoS, replace it with proper support for the LOTR games. The models are much nicer, the rules seem better, and why not make money off the IP?

Forget the impending debacle of 8th edition 40k, go back to a 5th edition design philosophy with rules based primarily on 5th edition.

Bring back support for Epic (with new models that take advantage of modern technology), with Aeronautica Imperialis coming along as a side effect. The 40k universe needs a game for those massive battles, and a 28mm game is not it.

Stop making random one-time board games to milk the cash cow of existing models. It's ok to make something that is going to be a core product (Space Hulk, Blood Bowl, etc), but stop making all the minor side games that are forgotten a month after they're released.

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Made in es
Krazed Killa Kan




Barcelona, Spain

 Peregrine wrote:
IMO:

Dump AoS, replace it with proper support for the LOTR games. The models are much nicer, the rules seem better, and why not make money off the IP?

Forget the impending debacle of 8th edition 40k, go back to a 5th edition design philosophy with rules based primarily on 5th edition.

Bring back support for Epic (with new models that take advantage of modern technology), with Aeronautica Imperialis coming along as a side effect. The 40k universe needs a game for those massive battles, and a 28mm game is not it.

Stop making random one-time board games to milk the cash cow of existing models. It's ok to make something that is going to be a core product (Space Hulk, Blood Bowl, etc), but stop making all the minor side games that are forgotten a month after they're released.


Because no one's interested in the LOTR. It was a fad by and large, which shows on the crash they had on their stocks back in 2005. I'd comment on the AoS part but there's not much to add beyond that's: your opinion.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Lord Kragan wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
IMO:

Dump AoS, replace it with proper support for the LOTR games. The models are much nicer, the rules seem better, and why not make money off the IP?

Forget the impending debacle of 8th edition 40k, go back to a 5th edition design philosophy with rules based primarily on 5th edition.

Bring back support for Epic (with new models that take advantage of modern technology), with Aeronautica Imperialis coming along as a side effect. The 40k universe needs a game for those massive battles, and a 28mm game is not it.

Stop making random one-time board games to milk the cash cow of existing models. It's ok to make something that is going to be a core product (Space Hulk, Blood Bowl, etc), but stop making all the minor side games that are forgotten a month after they're released.


Because no one's interested in the LOTR. It was a fad by and large, which shows on the crash they had on their stocks back in 2005. I'd comment on the AoS part but there's not much to add beyond that's: your opinion.


And what you wrote in your first sentence isn't? Double standards FTW!

I can't be arsed here. Perri, go nuts.
   
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Rampton, UK

More rank and file stuff, less big fancy models with lots of swirly crap on them.

 
   
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Krazed Killa Kan




Barcelona, Spain

Ruin wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
IMO:

Dump AoS, replace it with proper support for the LOTR games. The models are much nicer, the rules seem better, and why not make money off the IP?

Forget the impending debacle of 8th edition 40k, go back to a 5th edition design philosophy with rules based primarily on 5th edition.

Bring back support for Epic (with new models that take advantage of modern technology), with Aeronautica Imperialis coming along as a side effect. The 40k universe needs a game for those massive battles, and a 28mm game is not it.

Stop making random one-time board games to milk the cash cow of existing models. It's ok to make something that is going to be a core product (Space Hulk, Blood Bowl, etc), but stop making all the minor side games that are forgotten a month after they're released.


Because no one's interested in the LOTR. It was a fad by and large, which shows on the crash they had on their stocks back in 2005. I'd comment on the AoS part but there's not much to add beyond that's: your opinion.


And what you wrote in your first sentence isn't? Double standards FTW!

I can't be arsed here. Perri, go nuts.


And how many people play LOTR? In these last three years I think I've seen a grand total of one game being played across a seventeen LGS and 3 "states". There's communities still playing it? Yes, but the point stands that the interest is minimal comparitively speaking to what it was/GW currently has in other wargames. The main issue is that there's already plenty of skirmish games for LOTR on computer, so that fills a lot of wargamers. It's existance as a wargame was largely due to the films, and the fact that a lot of people stopped buying them when they started to fade from the collective memory just drives the point home. The minis were nice and the ruleset decently solid but it still couldn't build a significant playerbase that held the test of time.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/04/17 17:42:52


 
   
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I would LOVE to see BFG re-released and a 3 part campaign incorporating 40k, shadow war, and BFG where you fight for resources, strategic assets, and planets.

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Been Around the Block




The base rules for Lord of the Rings SBG would have been a great start for Age of Sigmar.

LotR could still have a bigger player base except for a) The Hobbit really ramped up the prices beyond all reason and eliminated one of the reasons people played it, b) support was very tepid; just try finding a book with stats and point costs for models that came out before Hobbit, and c) it got a lot of vitriol from the 40K and WHFB players for drawing resources away from their games, so there was not much of an incentive to play in stores and take the sour grapes.

I really agree with earlier comments, that the "28mm" scale models should be used for skirmish and squad level games, and a smaller scale used for the company scale and bigger games. Epic was faster to paint and you could really make some big armies, and now GW has the capabilities to make some nice scaled terrain to go with it.

Why can we not have three scales of game? Take Armageddon: play Shadow Wars for kill team skirmishes, 40K for some squad level engagements, and Epic for Titans, tank formations, flyers...the whole bag.
   
Made in us
Hellacious Havoc






Tacoma, WA

I think GW should focus on the their big selling games (40K, AoS and potentially Blood Bowl). Maybe even a 40K skrimish game to bridge the gap for new players (Kill Team isn't good enough but I don't know about Shadow War, or whatever it is called).

I also think they should figure out a way to allow new players to put together a reasonable (not complete junk units and ancient models) starting army (say 1500 points though 1850 would be better) for a reasonable price. Under $300 American but less than $250 would be better (I still kinda consider those prices insane too, but baby steps I guess).

I don't really get GW's insistence with models sets with little side games included. I kinda doubt that even a quarter of the customers played a single game in these sets. So why not cut to the chase, save a couple of trees and just put out discounted boxed sets. The Get Started and a couple of the other sets were okay (could still be more reasonably priced).

However, as new player to 40K from other much more affordable similar quality models miniatures games, I can't help to want to have more than barely 1850 points of Frankensteined Dark Vengeance stuff set of models with huge holes in a cohesive army list because, 'stuff be too expensive yo.'

I want to buy more stuff, but I can't make by desire to have those models meet the price that they are sold for.

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Bird from Hell






Lord Kragan wrote:
The main issue is that there's already plenty of skirmish games for LOTR on computer, so that fills a lot of wargamers. It's existance as a wargame was largely due to the films, and the fact that a lot of people stopped buying them when they started to fade from the collective memory just drives the point home.


But you could say the same kind of thing about AoS: there are plenty of similar games in the market already, and AoS has very little in its favor besides "it's the GW fantasy game". If the GW fantasy game was LOTR instead of AoS it probably would have been popular, and nobody would miss AoS. But what killed LOTR was that it was treated as a second-tier game, while WHFB/AoS and their inferior models and awful rules got the more prominent position.

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Krazed Killa Kan




Barcelona, Spain

 Peregrine wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
The main issue is that there's already plenty of skirmish games for LOTR on computer, so that fills a lot of wargamers. It's existance as a wargame was largely due to the films, and the fact that a lot of people stopped buying them when they started to fade from the collective memory just drives the point home.


But you could say the same kind of thing about AoS: there are plenty of similar games in the market already, and AoS has very little in its favor besides "it's the GW fantasy game". If the GW fantasy game was LOTR instead of AoS it probably would have been popular, and nobody would miss AoS. But what killed LOTR was that it was treated as a second-tier game, while WHFB/AoS and their inferior models and awful rules got the more prominent position.


Because it was a second tier game to them since they had virtually no lee-way on what to do in comparison to WHFB/AOS, nor the financial utility that is a game where you mustn't pay a penny or meet yourself a certain set of quotas and requirements. And again, model/rules quality is your opinion.
   
Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut






Lord Kragan wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
The main issue is that there's already plenty of skirmish games for LOTR on computer, so that fills a lot of wargamers. It's existance as a wargame was largely due to the films, and the fact that a lot of people stopped buying them when they started to fade from the collective memory just drives the point home.


But you could say the same kind of thing about AoS: there are plenty of similar games in the market already, and AoS has very little in its favor besides "it's the GW fantasy game". If the GW fantasy game was LOTR instead of AoS it probably would have been popular, and nobody would miss AoS. But what killed LOTR was that it was treated as a second-tier game, while WHFB/AoS and their inferior models and awful rules got the more prominent position.


Because it was a second tier game to them since they had virtually no lee-way on what to do in comparison to WHFB/AOS, nor the financial utility that is a game where you mustn't pay a penny or meet yourself a certain set of quotas and requirements. And again, model/rules quality is your opinion.


I disagree with Peregrine about AoS (as I enjoy it immensely) but I have to agree with him 100% with LotR. The rule set was and still is fantastic as well as a good 90% of the range. The reason it fell into purgatory was neglect, not lack of sales. It had supplements and releases coming out the backside for years after the movies finished. With Forge World taking it over it has seen hell of a new revival, with most products released shooting through the roof of their targets. The audience has always been there, it just has to be catered too. Like any game that gets released.
   
Made in gb
Most Glorious Grey Seer






Pretty sure lowered sales did wallop LotR.

Plus, GW didn't have the same free hand to come up with new stuff - and character models have to be approved by their actors (apparently, and I can in no way back this up, so file it under A for Apocrypha, Liv Tyler was an absolute nightmare when it came to the first Arwen model)

The game is solid though - and I particularly enjoyed War of The Ring as a system.

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Fixture of Dakka




UK

I think the current balance is about right,

Focusing too heavily on 40K was one of the problems of the late Kirby era, it generated most of the sales so got most of the releases so got more of the sales etc

more 2nd main system (AOS),

more specialist games.... one or two that get some post release support,

but most generally one and done as they shouldn't need ongoing releases all the time (although expanding them via WD is fine just not big model release slots)

 
   
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Pre Heresy Black Templar Librarian






North of Chicago, IL USA

Focus on 40k. Gut that fething game and come up with something where I don't need 3 supplements and a rule book to fething play a game!

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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Pretty sure lowered sales did wallop LotR.

Plus, GW didn't have the same free hand to come up with new stuff - and character models have to be approved by their actors (apparently, and I can in no way back this up, so file it under A for Apocrypha, Liv Tyler was an absolute nightmare when it came to the first Arwen model)

The game is solid though - and I particularly enjoyed War of The Ring as a system.


Not saying you're wrong, but Arwen was one of the first models released for LOTR way back when. Either they released that without her permission or it was in by the skin of their teeth for release deadline.
   
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Most Glorious Grey Seer






If memory serves she was delayed.

However, it may well be entirely apocryphal.

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Dakka Veteran




 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If memory serves she was delayed.

However, it may well be entirely apocryphal.


Looking back, I think she was delayed. I distinctly remember the mini being on the flyer you got given at Games Day. This was all 15 years ago so maybe someone with a better memory can fill in the blanks here.
   
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Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe





40k and AoS, forget everything else.
   
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Mississippi

Would the LotR game work for a more general fantasy ruleset, say, with AoS figures or would it falter when trying to handle such high-fantasy fare?

As a devil's advocate to Wolf_in_Human_Shape, I sometimes also wonder if GW would have any success if they dipped their toes in an alternate modern "magical" world, a sort of grimdark model line of modern wizards, supernatural foes (werewolves, slendermen, area 54 aliens, men in black, etc.). GW has done only fantasy and far-flung sci-fi for so long now, I wonder if they could a decent job stretching out of the comfort zone of the two IPs they've relied upon for so long.

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It's certainly possible. Catering to anything other than my own preferences, any number of games could/should/may exist. My interests are purely limited to those two games, though. Moreso 40k than AoS, but now that Blades of Khorne is out I'm gonna give it a shot with my daemons.
   
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Lord of the Fleet






Halifornia, Nova Scotia

I've got a personal love of BFG, so of course I'd love to see as a full fledged game with all factions updated in plastic and minor updates to the rules (the work has already been done by many lovely people at the specialist arms forums for FAQs and player made errata/balance tweaks).

While I can't say I'm a fan of balkanizing the 40k fan base anymore than it already is, I like the way 40k seems to be handled. The new Necromunda looks like a decent game (though mixed reviews on balance and lacking certain campaign focused depth) and then we have Kill Team for slightly larger, small scale 40k proper, then we could have 40k normal (restricted superheavies and formations/detachments), and then finally Apoc, which would be a little more streamlined.

I don't much care for their fantasy offerings, or derivative games. I'd likely try Aeronautica if it came back in plastic, but not really my jam.

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 Peregrine wrote:
IMO:

Dump AoS, replace it with proper support for the LOTR games. The models are much nicer, the rules seem better, and why not make money off the IP?

Forget the impending debacle of 8th edition 40k, go back to a 5th edition design philosophy with rules based primarily on 5th edition.
Your second point here seems nice and reasonable, but your first point seems like an obviously terrible business decision. Do you really dislike/hate AoS, or you honestly think GW would survive if tomorrow they decided AoS would no longer exist?

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I'm from the future. The future of space

Age of Sigmar is totally working for them, so they should definitely continue doing that.

40k should be brought in line with that approach. You'll get more out of your game designer's time if any project experience for one game can be instantly transferred to the other. As well, accessibility for new players is at an all time high for Age of Sigmar and 40k could use that as well.

Both games should get low model count skirmish entry points. Like Shadow War Armageddon from GW and Bottle's excellent Hinterlands rule for Age of Sigmar. But both should use the same rules as the larger game as a base. So while SWA being a necromunda type game hit some nostalgia buttons, having something like that being based on new40k rather than 2nd edition 40k is probably a good idea.

Then they should keep doing board game type releases a few times a year. This new Shadespire series is probably a good place to start if they're going to do multiple releases for the same sort of board game.

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They need to continue to diversify the aos range to keep it growing. The need to have ongoing support for shadow war and Shadespire. They need to release a bestiary book for warhammer Quest.
As much as I would love to see more specialist games stuff, they should only do one game every 18 months until they have built up that studio. This will give them time to meaningfully support each range. They should continue with lotr and heresy as they are.
   
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I'd love to see Gorechosen get supplements to allow for a hero vs crowds of gribblies or a big monster (I know Skaar and Valkia exist). I'd also love to see more critters exist for Renegade. More big gribblies!!

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An AoS rpg line, would drop a lot of cash for supplements taking me through the wilds and tribal lands of the beast realms to the ancient castles and undead cathedrals of the realm of death.

Wouldn't mind some more support for LotR either.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut






The 300 lb gorilla in the room is the price.

GW can drop a few notes and make it attainable for new players again....



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I play AoS and I like it, but I aggre with Peregrin in the part of supporting LOTR.


Saddly, I think that his time has pass. The time to go full ahead with LOTR to make it stand the test of time after the movies fade away was 10 years ago.

They can revive it, yes. LOTR is still a big name out there, no more can compete with Star Wars, but thats just because it has been abandoned. Start Collecting! Boxes for LOTR could be a first thing to do to try to revive the game, but as now is really competing with AoS I don't see them pushing it, really.

Just look at Star Wars with Disney spamming movies. The interest of the universe has revive and sky rocket.


LOTR miniatures in 28mm scale or 32mm, will be lovely. Those pieces of art that are the Peter Jackson movie desings deserve a good representation on the tabletop. Not saying that the actual ones are ugly, I love them, but in many cases you can see how the details are pushed away by limitations on the scale.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/19 02:15:08


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

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Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
 
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