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Two questions:

1) When used in the Living Tomb formation, the Eternity Gate of the Monolith can bring in a unit from "Reserves" or "Ongoing Reserves". Does this also include "Deep Strike Reserve"?

2) If s, if I use the Eternity Gate to bring in Deathmarks in deep strike reserve, would that trigger their "Hunters from hyperspace" rule and allow them to wound on a 2+? After all, their rule says "During the player turn in which this unit arrives from deep strike reserve ..." , it doesn't say that they have to deep strike. If I bring them in with the Eternity Gate, it would technically be the player turn in which they arrived from deep strike reserve, they just didnt deep strike, they were brought in with the monolith (which fluffwise probably is almost the same thing)

1. Deep Strike Reserves is a form of Reserves
2. Not sure, MAYBE

I can't see why not

Deathmarks also have the rule "Ethereal Interception", saying the unit of deathmarks may choose to arrive using "the rules of deep striking", the somewhat vague wording of that first rule seems to want to cover that second rule, allowing them to wound on 2+ if they arrive from deep strike in the opponents turn.

Again opening up for any kind of arrival mechanism as long as they were in deep strike reserves at one point in that turn.

torblind wrote:
Deathmarks also have the rule "Ethereal Interception", saying the unit of deathmarks may choose to arrive using "the rules of deep striking", the somewhat vague wording of that first rule seems to want to cover that second rule, allowing them to wound on 2+ if they arrive from deep strike in the opponents turn.

Again opening up for any kind of arrival mechanism as long as they were in deep strike reserves at one point in that turn.

Half true. We also need to consider the rules for the Eternity Gate.

At the start of each friendly turn, you may choose one friendly unit with the Necrons Faction consisting entirely of models with either the Infantry or Jump Infantry unit type that is in Reserves, Ongoing Reserves, or is on the table and not locked in combat. If the chosen unit is in Reserves or Ongoing Reserves, it automatically arrives this turn (no dice roll is required) and it is placed as if it were disembarking from the Monolith’s portal at the start of the Movement phase. If the chosen unit is currently on the battlefield, it is first removed from the table and then placed as described above. Any models that cannot be placed are removed as casualties, but the unit is otherwise treated exactly as if it were disembarking from a Transport vehicle.

Just because it was in Deep Strike Reserves does not change the fact that the unit is to be treated as Disembarking, not Deep Striking. Since they are not Deep Striking, their Hunters From Hyperspace special rule does not get to activate.

Well, (perhaps too) technically it doesn't say they have to deep strike, or be treated as deep striking, just arrive from deep striking reserves

" If the chosen unit is in Reserves or Ongoing Reserves, it automatically arrives this turn"

So, they arrived. From Deep Strike Reserves (if that was how they were place in Reserves). For purposes of the Hunters From Hyperspace rule it seems that this would still qualify.

What is 'Deep Strike Reserve'?

Deep Strike (P.136) wrote:When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve).

Deep Strike Reserve is arriving using the Deep Strike rule, not being placed in Reserve. You never get to place your unit in 'Deep Strike Reserve', it doesn't exist. If you do not arrive using the rules for Deep Strike, then you are not deploying from Deep Strike Reserve to be able to use 'Hunters from Hyperspace'. You've told your opponent they will be arriving by Deep Strike. You can't gain the bonus when you tell your opponent 'Just Kidding'.

As mentioned above...

You need to separate your units into the method in which they will be arriving from reserves.

If your guys are "in a space ship" or a transport etc, that is how they "deployed for battle" so you can't decide to have them walk onto the field or arrive via a different method than the one in which they were put into reserve to do.

You could maybe argue that you can't even pull him in at all and that he must deep strike, because he would be in deep strike reserves, not reserves or ongoing reserves.

Ceann wrote:
As mentioned above...

You need to separate your units into the method in which they will be arriving from reserves.

If your guys are "in a space ship" or a transport etc, that is how they "deployed for battle" so you can't decide to have them walk onto the field or arrive via a different method than the one in which they were put into reserve to do.

You could maybe argue that you can't even pull him in at all and that he must deep strike, because he would be in deep strike reserves, not reserves or ongoing reserves.

Only if Deep Strike Reserves is completely separated from regular Reserves, at which point, where do the differences start and end, and can you document them?

In addition, the Eternity Gate carrying a Codex Rule can override any such conflicts (if addressed).

And while they may have been in Deep Strike Reserves, they are Disembarking from a Transport that did not Deep Strike that turn. By that arrival, they failed the conditions to be considered in Deep Strike Reserves.

So, either no unit cannot be pulled out of Deep Strike Reserves by the Eternity Gate or if they can, they would be considered arriving from Deep Strike Reserves.

Deep Strike is a special rule, it should ignore codex precedence.

Ceann wrote:
Deep Strike is a special rule, it should ignore codex precedence.

Please read the 3rd paragraph of Basic vs Advanced again.

You mean the thing that you don't understand and still don't?

The unit HAS deepstrike in the codex.

SPECIAL RULES:
• Deep Strike
• Reanimation Protocols

Codex precedence has no meaning here.
Because there is no conflict.

Guys, units which disembark from a vehicle which deep struck this turn count as having deep struck.

If the monolith arrived from deep strike this turn and uses its eternity gate to teleport a unit (regardless of the unit's current location), that unit will count as having deep struck this turn. Remember you can only do this if the monoliths are in the living Tomb formation.

Thereby, this will trigger the deathmarks, regardless of how they were deployed and even if they are already on the table... but only on the turn the monolith arrived this way.

Ceann wrote:You mean the thing that you don't understand and still don't?

The unit HAS deepstrike in the codex.

SPECIAL RULES:
• Deep Strike
• Reanimation Protocols

Codex precedence has no meaning here.
Because there is no conflict.

Please reread the third paragraph of Basic vs Advanced and what it says about rules in the codex versus rules in the rulebook, particularly the last sentence. The PM I sent you will provide the pertinent quote.

Which one is Deep Strike in?

Which one is the Eternity Gate in?

sieGermans wrote:Guys, units which disembark from a vehicle which deep struck this turn count as having deep struck.

If the monolith arrived from deep strike this turn and uses its eternity gate to teleport a unit (regardless of the unit's current location), that unit will count as having deep struck this turn. Remember you can only do this if the monoliths are in the living Tomb formation.

Thereby, this will trigger the deathmarks, regardless of how they were deployed and even if they are already on the table... but only on the turn the monolith arrived this way.

Unless you are using the Living Tomb Formation, you cannot use the Eternity Gate on the same turn a Monolith Deep Strikes in. Abilities that are used at the start of the turn cannot normally be used by a model when they Arrive From Reserves. This is part of the first paragraph of Moving On from Reserve.

The codex does not have precedence over USR's.
Unless you are telling me that Deep Strike is a basic rule now.

The most relevant term would be...

"The chosen unit is placed as if it were disembarking from the Monolith’s eternity gate."

At this point it would be treated as a unit disembarking from a non-assault vehicle, it wouldn't gain any benefit from deep striking. Also as noted per below you can only take units you put into normal reserves, not deep strike reserves, they are separate things.

Deep Strike and Transports
Units do not confer the Deep Strike special rule onto a Transport vehicle they are embarked inside. A Transport vehicle with Deep Strike may Deep Strike regardless of
whether its passengers have Deep Strike or not.

When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve).

Ceann wrote:
The codex does not have precedence over USR's.
Unless you are telling me that Deep Strike is a basic rule now.

Deep Strike is a rule printed in the BRB and Hunters from Hyperspace is a rule printed in the Necron codex, correct?

Ceann wrote:
The codex does not have precedence over USR's.
Unless you are telling me that Deep Strike is a basic rule now.

The most relevant term would be...

"The chosen unit is placed as if it were disembarking from the Monolith’s eternity gate."

At this point it would be treated as a unit disembarking from a non-assault vehicle, it wouldn't gain any benefit from deep striking. Also as noted per below you can only take units you put into normal reserves, not deep strike reserves, they are separate things.

Deep Strike and Transports
Units do not confer the Deep Strike special rule onto a Transport vehicle they are embarked inside. A Transport vehicle with Deep Strike may Deep Strike regardless of
whether its passengers have Deep Strike or not.

When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve).

So you have not read it and refuse to read it.

Basic vs Advanced, 3rd Paragraph:

Where advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rules. For example, the basic rules state that a model must take a Morale check under certain situations. If, however, that model has a special rule that makes it immune to Morale checks, then it does not take such checks – the advanced rule takes precedence. On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex or Army List Entry always takes precedence.

It doesn't matter if it is a USR or not that a codex rule is conflicting with, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence over a rulebook rule.

GW's FAQ has changed this on a couple of occasions (Lance vs Quantum Shielding), but it is not carte blanche to be ignoring this. If you try and do it, you will find fewer people willing to play with you.

Where Eternity Gate might take precedence is only if we recognize Deep Strike Reserves as being part of general Reserves. If so, it can take the unit out of Deep Strike Reserves and Disembark it from the Monolith. It also skips over the requirements of the unit needing to be Embarked on the Transport in order to Disembark.

If Deep Strike Reserves is not part of general Reserves, and is its own special thing, then the Eternity Gate would have no permission to pull the Deathmarks out of Reserves.

The only real question for Hunters From Hyperspace on Deathmarks should be, "Is Deep Strike Reserves part of normal Reserves so that the Eternity Gate can Disembark the unit?"

If you do Disembark them from the Monolith, then they did not arrive from Deep Strike Reserves per its own definition.

 Charistoph wrote:


The only real question for Hunters From Hyperspace on Deathmarks should be, "Is Deep Strike Reserves part of normal Reserves so that the Eternity Gate can Disembark the unit?"

If you do Disembark them from the Monolith, then they did not arrive from Deep Strike Reserves per its own definition.

The only real question for Hunters From Hyperspace is, were the Deathmarks in Deep Strike Reserve when the Eternity Gate is used?

In order for a unit to be in Deep Strike Reserve they must be in Reserve and simply be nominated as being in Deep Strike Reserve.



If the Deathmarks were nominated to be in Deep Strike Reserve then when Eternity Gate is used, the Deathmarks arrive FROM Deep Strike Reserve. The Deathmarks therefore satisfy the requirement of Hunters from Hyperspace.

Eternity gate can only pull from Reserves and Ongoing Reserves, not Deep Strike Reserves.

Ceann wrote:
Eternity gate can only pull from Reserves and Ongoing Reserves, not Deep Strike Reserves.

A unit that is in Deep Strike Reserves is in Reserves.

In order for a unit to be able to Deep Strike, all models in the unit must have the Deep Strike special rule and the unit must start the game in Reserve. When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve). Some units must arrive by Deep Strike. They always begin the game in Reserve and always arrive by Deep Strike.

Ceann wrote:
Eternity gate can only pull from Reserves and Ongoing Reserves, not Deep Strike Reserves.

Where is Deep Strike Reserves differentiated from Reserves or Ongoing Reserves?

The only difference is attendant to their method of Arriving From Reserves, nothing more. Indeed, they have to follow all the other rules for Reserves, too. Indeed, Deep Strike Reserves can be considered a sub part of Reserves.

 Charistoph wrote:

Ceann wrote:
Eternity gate can only pull from Reserves and Ongoing Reserves, not Deep Strike Reserves.

Where is Deep Strike Reserves differentiated from Reserves or Ongoing Reserves?

The only difference is attendant to their method of Arriving From Reserves, nothing more. Indeed, they have to follow all the other rules for Reserves, too. Indeed, Deep Strike Reserves can be considered a sub part of Reserves.

The method doesn't matter. Only that the unit was in Deep Strike Reserves such that it is now considered arriving FROM Deep Strike Reserves.

Hunters from Hyperspace is satisfied.

 Charistoph wrote:

Ceann wrote:
The codex does not have precedence over USR's.
Unless you are telling me that Deep Strike is a basic rule now.

The most relevant term would be...

"The chosen unit is placed as if it were disembarking from the Monolith’s eternity gate."

At this point it would be treated as a unit disembarking from a non-assault vehicle, it wouldn't gain any benefit from deep striking. Also as noted per below you can only take units you put into normal reserves, not deep strike reserves, they are separate things.

Deep Strike and Transports
Units do not confer the Deep Strike special rule onto a Transport vehicle they are embarked inside. A Transport vehicle with Deep Strike may Deep Strike regardless of
whether its passengers have Deep Strike or not.

When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve).

So you have not read it and refuse to read it.

Basic vs Advanced, 3rd Paragraph:

Where advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rules. For example, the basic rules state that a model must take a Morale check under certain situations. If, however, that model has a special rule that makes it immune to Morale checks, then it does not take such checks – the advanced rule takes precedence. On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex or Army List Entry always takes precedence.

It doesn't matter if it is a USR or not that a codex rule is conflicting with, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence over a rulebook rule.

GW's FAQ has changed this on a couple of occasions (Lance vs Quantum Shielding), but it is not carte blanche to be ignoring this. If you try and do it, you will find fewer people willing to play with you.

Where Eternity Gate might take precedence is only if we recognize Deep Strike Reserves as being part of general Reserves. If so, it can take the unit out of Deep Strike Reserves and Disembark it from the Monolith. It also skips over the requirements of the unit needing to be Embarked on the Transport in order to Disembark.

If Deep Strike Reserves is not part of general Reserves, and is its own special thing, then the Eternity Gate would have no permission to pull the Deathmarks out of Reserves.

The only real question for Hunters From Hyperspace on Deathmarks should be, "Is Deep Strike Reserves part of normal Reserves so that the Eternity Gate can Disembark the unit?"

If you do Disembark them from the Monolith, then they did not arrive from Deep Strike Reserves per its own definition.

Is Eternity Gate a special rule?
No.

Is Quantum Shielding a special rule?
No.

Q: Does the Lance special rule work against
quantum shielding?
A: Yes.

They had to FAQ it because "basic vs advanced" is extremely poorly worded and is not concise to the point that is needed to alleviate confusion.
This if anything proves exactly what I said about special rules having precedence, even over a codex, unless the codex rule in question is also a special rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

col_impact wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

Ceann wrote:
Eternity gate can only pull from Reserves and Ongoing Reserves, not Deep Strike Reserves.

Where is Deep Strike Reserves differentiated from Reserves or Ongoing Reserves?

The only difference is attendant to their method of Arriving From Reserves, nothing more. Indeed, they have to follow all the other rules for Reserves, too. Indeed, Deep Strike Reserves can be considered a sub part of Reserves.

The method doesn't matter. Only that the unit was in Deep Strike Reserves such that it is now considered arriving FROM Deep Strike Reserves.

Hunters from Hyperspace is satisfied.

Hunters from Hyperspace is not satisfied.

The unit was placed in Deep Strike Reserves.

The gate cannot bring them in from Deep Strike Reserves.
Because they are not in Reserves or Ongoing Reserves.

"that is in Reserves, Ongoing Reserves,"

Deep Strike Reserves isn't an option.

Ceann wrote:

col_impact wrote:


The method doesn't matter. Only that the unit was in Deep Strike Reserves such that it is now considered arriving FROM Deep Strike Reserves.

Hunters from Hyperspace is satisfied.

Hunters from Hyperspace is not satisfied.

The unit was placed in Deep Strike Reserves.

The gate cannot bring them in from Deep Strike Reserves.
Because they are not in Reserves or Ongoing Reserves.

"that is in Reserves, Ongoing Reserves,"

Deep Strike Reserves isn't an option.

The rules directly contradict your argument. A unit that is in Deep Strike Reserves is in Reserves. Read the rule below.

In order for a unit to be able to Deep Strike, all models in the unit must have the Deep Strike special rule and the unit must start the game in Reserve. When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve). Some units must arrive by Deep Strike. They always begin the game in Reserve and always arrive by Deep Strike.

Since your argument is directly contradicted by the rules, then your argument is invalid.

col_impact wrote:In order for a unit to be able to Deep Strike, all models in the unit must have the Deep Strike special rule and the unit must start the game in Reserve. When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve).

Fixed it for you.
Since your argument is directly contradicted by the rules, then your argument is invalid.



A unit that is in reserves can WALK onto the table. You don't have that option if you are in deepstrike reserves.

Ceann wrote:
Is Eternity Gate a special rule?
No.

Is Quantum Shielding a special rule?
No.

A disingenuous response. I asked where they were, not what they were.

You and I both know they are Wargear. You and I both know that Wargear carry rules. You and I both know that those rules that they carry are from the codex.

Ceann wrote:
Q: Does the Lance special rule work against
quantum shielding?
A: Yes.

They had to FAQ it because "basic vs advanced" is extremely poorly worded and is not concise to the point that is needed to alleviate confusion.
This if anything proves exactly what I said about special rules having precedence, even over a codex, unless the codex rule in question is also a special rule.

Actually Basic vs Advanced is very clear on this situation, you are the only one with a problem on the concept because you cannot seem to handle when something is a definition and when it is a reference.

It was changed for a perception of balance or because the monkeys got a hold of the keyboards, just as it is on Battle Brothers and Transports during Deployment.

col_impact wrote:
The method doesn't matter. Only that the unit was in Deep Strike Reserves such that it is now considered arriving FROM Deep Strike Reserves.

Considering the definition of Deep Strike Reserves is dependent on the method, than I would say does matter.

Disembarking from a Vehicle that did not Deep Strike does not count as arriving by Deep Strike.

col_impact wrote:

Ceann wrote:

col_impact wrote:


The method doesn't matter. Only that the unit was in Deep Strike Reserves such that it is now considered arriving FROM Deep Strike Reserves.

Hunters from Hyperspace is satisfied.

Hunters from Hyperspace is not satisfied.

The unit was placed in Deep Strike Reserves.

The gate cannot bring them in from Deep Strike Reserves.
Because they are not in Reserves or Ongoing Reserves.

"that is in Reserves, Ongoing Reserves,"

Deep Strike Reserves isn't an option.

The rules directly contradict your argument. A unit that is in Deep Strike Reserves is in Reserves. Read the rule below.

In order for a unit to be able to Deep Strike, all models in the unit must have the Deep Strike special rule and the unit must start the game in Reserve. When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve). Some units must arrive by Deep Strike. They always begin the game in Reserve and always arrive by Deep Strike.

Since your argument is directly contradicted by the rules, then your argument is invalid.

Found this, pretty sure the same situation applies...

Q: Does a unit always enter the game from Reserves when Deep Striking? The rules for Deep Striking seem to imply that
being the case, even when a unit is already on the table. As an example, does a unit of Warp Talons that is using Gate of Infinity trigger its Warpflame Strike each time they use the
psychic power?

A: Not unless explicitly stated,Gate of Infinity has the unit arrive anywhere on the board
using the rules for Deep Strike. This doesn’t mean that it goes into Deep Strike Reserve, or that you have to make
a Reserve Roll for the unit and so on, and it means that you don’t get to use the Warpflame Strike each time you do this.

It blatantly points out that Deep Strike Reserve, is an actual place, not just "Reserve".

Hunters from Hyperspace remains not satisfied.

 Charistoph wrote:

Considering the definition of Deep Strike Reserves is dependent on the method, than I would say does matter.

Disembarking from a Vehicle that did not Deep Strike does not count as arriving by Deep Strike.

The definition of Deep Strike Reserves is not dependent on the method. Deep Strike Reserves is a state declared when you put a model with the Deep Strike rule in Reserves.

The Hunters from Hyperspace rule does not care if the unit arrived BY Deep Strike only that it arrived FROM Deep Strike Reserves.



The only question that needs to be resolved is, were the Deathmarks in Deep Strike Reserve? And we already know the answer to that. Yes.

So Hunters from Hyperspace is satisfied. When the Deathmarks arrive on the battlefield via Eternity Gate they have arrived FROM Deep Strike Reserves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ceann wrote:



Found this, pretty sure the same situation applies...

Q: Does a unit always enter the game from Reserves when Deep Striking? The rules for Deep Striking seem to imply that
being the case, even when a unit is already on the table. As an example, does a unit of Warp Talons that is using Gate of Infinity trigger its Warpflame Strike each time they use the
psychic power?

A: Not unless explicitly stated,Gate of Infinity has the unit arrive anywhere on the board
using the rules for Deep Strike. This doesn’t mean that it goes into Deep Strike Reserve, or that you have to make
a Reserve Roll for the unit and so on, and it means that you don’t get to use the Warpflame Strike each time you do this.

It blatantly points out that Deep Strike Reserve, is an actual place, not just "Reserve".

Hunters from Hyperspace remains not satisfied.

The situation in the FAQ does not apply to the case being discussed. Deathmarks are placed in Reserves and then nominated to be in Deep Strike Reserves. Gate of Infinity uses the rules for Deep Strike but does not place the unit in Reserves.

So your argument is still in contradiction to the rules. We know by the rules that the Deathmarks that are in Deep Strike Reserves are in Reserves.

In order for a unit to be able to Deep Strike, all models in the unit must have the Deep Strike special rule and the unit must start the game in Reserve. When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve). Some units must arrive by Deep Strike. They always begin the game in Reserve and always arrive by Deep Strike.

You cannot be in Reserves and Deep Strike reserves buddy.

Or are you arguing that any unit Deep Strike reserves can give up and just walk on the board instead?
I have an FAQ that proves Deep Strike reserves exists.

You have a poignant demeanor and a red highlighter.