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I just finished reading Rise of the Primarch, and have enjoyed the Gathering Storm books. It has reminded me why I love(d) the 40k Universe so much.

I would love to get a discussion going on what Guilliman saw/possibly discussed during his meeting with The Emperor. Roboute enters the ominously vaporous throne room, and emerges a day later surrounded by cold glowing silver mists, his expression unreadable.

What do you think Guilliman saw/experienced during this meeting? Was there any discussion, perhaps on a psychic level? I believe that he would have been sickened by the grotesque corpse of his father, and allowed himself to undergo something like the five stages of grief (denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance).

I wonder if GW themselves will ever tell of what happened, perhaps with some more fluff in the upcoming rulebook.

Anyhow, please have at it guys, it would be great to see what you can come up with

A fist pound.

Tried to aak Big E what happened to the Imperium but was met with stoney silence.

Very reasonable responses! I hope that Bruva Alfabusa (The Emperor's Text to Speech Device) will have something planned on the YooToobs...

I suspect big E explained that Cypher must be allowed to kill E with the special sword that he brought to Terra, so that big E can finally die and reborn.

However this will also cause the planet to be engulfed by the Deamons currently trying to break into the palace through the damaged webway gate.

Guilliman is stuck between 2 impossible choices.

1.Do as dad says - kill him and doom everyone on the planet and arguably the rest of the solar system

2. Ignore his dad's wishes, thereby codeming him to more torment on the golden throne and find alternative options ( capture Magnus and stick him on the golden throne instead?)

The Emperor ate the part of Girlyman's soul that would have given him psyker powers.

according to Gulliman "he got everything he needed" from his father. the cynic in me suggests it was indeed stony silence, and the realization that the emperor is well and truely gone

BrianDavion wrote:
according to Gulliman "he got everything he needed" from his father. the cynic in me suggests it was indeed stony silence, and the realization that the emperor is well and truely gone

This.

He walked in expecting to speak with the Emperor of mankind, saw that the Emperor is a 10,000-year old corpse consuming thousands of psykers a day just to retain the tiniest spark of life in order to provide the astronomican, and promptly walked out again.

It was quite a cliffhanger, I'm hoping they'll continue on with the storm that was gathering.

Since the Emperor never gave anyone Everything they needed ever. I presume Guillimon had walked out dismissing the situation. Now he can proceed with his own plans since there is no Emperor.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

He walked in expecting to speak with the Emperor of mankind, saw that the Emperor is a 10,000-year old corpse consuming thousands of psykers a day just to retain the tiniest spark of life in order to provide the astronomican, and promptly walked out again.

Guilliman would have already known that the Emperor was in that state unless he has indeed deteriorated whilst sat upon the Golden Throne.

Waiting a whole day would make Guilliman very patient.

My honest opinion?
Guilliman entered there, poked the rotten, dirt corpse of the emperor and said "Well, he's even more dead than I expected. A shame i'm not even a psyker so i can't communicate with his mind or the remainings of it. Whatever, I shall fix this sh*t myself. I'll take your sword dad, it's OP. Thanks."

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
according to Gulliman "he got everything he needed" from his father. the cynic in me suggests it was indeed stony silence, and the realization that the emperor is well and truely gone

This.

He walked in expecting to speak with the Emperor of mankind, saw that the Emperor is a 10,000-year old corpse consuming thousands of psykers a day just to retain the tiniest spark of life in order to provide the astronomican, and promptly walked out again.

Guiliman was around after the Heresy.
When Roboute was 'killed' and put in stasis, the emperor was no more alive than he is today.
He is the one who lead the survivors of the heresy to put big E's body in the throne.
Guilliman remembers over a hundred years of his dad being a rotting corpse and probably isnt shocked that when he comes back 9000 years later things are roughly the same.

Except the bread was in the toaster for too long.

BrianDavion wrote:
according to Gulliman "he got everything he needed" from his father. the cynic in me suggests it was indeed stony silence, and the realization that the emperor is well and truely gone

Just what was on my mind, Brian!

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:
Guilliman would have already known that the Emperor was in that state unless he has indeed deteriorated whilst sat upon the Golden Throne.

Waiting a whole day would make Guilliman very patient.

This also came to mind. I'm not sure just how long it was after The Heresy that Fulgrim poisoned Guilliman, but surely Roboute was aware of The Emperor's current state. Or indeed, as you suggest, the several thousand years that he has been in stasis for have seen Big E's health nosedive. Perhaps Guilliman did not know, whether too preoccupied or intentionally distracted/denied access. It would be interesting to know what he did during his time in the Throne Room.

@Ryuhoshi

On a related tangent now, in regards to the Sylandri Veilwalker. She sealed Magnus in the Webway before Roboute could slay him, and then Cypher escaped the Adeptus Custode's imprisonment merely hours after the fact, almost certainly with the Harlequin's aid. People have discussed the Star Child theory, in that the Emperor is truly slain and becomes a God in the Warp to defeat Chaos forever. In the Eldar's grand schemes, do you think that both Cypher and Magnus were spared for this very purpose? Although the Eldar were apparent allies throughout the Gathering Storm, they wish above all for the Aeldari to rise once more. They undoubtedly would use humanity as their weapon to defeat Chaos (if at all possible).

How much of this do you think that Roboute suspects? Unless I'm over-guessing, and the Eldar actually want to be bros with their Mon-keigh associates. Also, why would Guilliman be so terrified of The Lion's Sword? Why would the Dark Angel's Primarch give it to Cypher - if he was at all aware - also possibly knowing what use it was for?

Question... questions...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Exergy wrote:

Guilliman remembers over a hundred years of his dad being a rotting corpse and probably isnt shocked that when he comes back 9000 years later things are roughly the same.

Ah that explains it then. So, perhaps he was up to something in there after all... or, y'know, just chilling

Edit: grammar.

Assuming he actually did have some kind of meaningful interaction with the Emperor, which mechanism would have facilitated such an exchange?

Guilliman is supposed to an expert administrator, so my theory is that he went to see the emperor and had his private "chat" for the benefit of everyone else. That is to say, afterwards he can leave and claim the authority of both a Primarch and the Emperor's consent to radically alter the Imperium. In short, it was a PR stunt.

 Luciferian wrote:
Assuming he actually did have some kind of meaningful interaction with the Emperor, which mechanism would have facilitated such an exchange?

[MOD EDIT - Quite inappropriate for this forum. Please find a different way to express that. - Alpharius]

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

[MOD EDIT - Quite inappropriate for this forum. Please find a different way to express that. - Alpharius]

But seriously though, if they DID speak with each other, how did they do it?

 Grumblewartz wrote:
Guilliman is supposed to an expert administrator, so my theory is that he went to see the emperor and had his private "chat" for the benefit of everyone else. That is to say, afterwards he can leave and claim the authority of both a Primarch and the Emperor's consent to radically alter the Imperium. In short, it was a PR stunt.

You're good.

 Luciferian wrote:

Considering that the Emperor isn't quite as virile as he used to be, that hardly seems like it would take all day.

But seriously though, if they DID speak with each other, how did they do it?

If there was conversation I would assume it would be from the Emperor using his Psychic abilities. Thinking thoughts at each other rather than actually speaking.

 Ryuhoshi wrote:
My honest opinion?
Guilliman entered there, poked the rotten, dirt corpse of the emperor and said "Well, he's even more dead than I expected. A shame i'm not even a psyker so i can't communicate with his mind or the remainings of it. Whatever, I shall fix this sh*t myself. I'll take your sword dad, it's OP. Thanks."

His exact words upon seeing the emperor were "And the winner of 100 centuries on a slab but then returned to life is ME, suck it gramps!"

If we are to use the last time someone entered the Golden Throne room to have a private chat with the Emperor as a meter, we can assume he asked Guilliman to reinforce the theocratic rulership of the Imperium or maybe, maybe the Emperor has finally realised that any healthy monarchy requires a strong dynastic rule. Guilliman needs to produce children from a formal union (not a million little bastard). Logicaly, it would be a long awaited marriage with Saint Celestine (a possible reincarnation of Saint Katherine who was also the last person who had talked to the Emperor before Guilliman). Since Guilliman doesn't know anything about women, let alone, sex, marriage and child rearing, the Emperor needed to have a daddy talk with, which was, of course, incredibly awkward since the Emperor has demonstrated that he is a terrible father, a bad teacher and extremely ignorant on anything that touches women. Thus, Guilliman got out of there confused, a bit mortified and very happy to throw himself in any sort of wars in an attempt to delay the inevitable day of his marriage (he might try to bring back one of his brother in an attempt to deflect such a high responsability to him instead).

BrianDavion wrote:
according to Gulliman "he got everything he needed" from his father. the cynic in me suggests it was indeed stony silence, and the realization that the emperor is well and truely gone

I'd go for this as well. In the century or so after his internment on the throne the Emperor may have been in a much better state both physically and mentally then he is in the 41st millennium. The throne in the "present" is failing, barely keeping his cells alive and his mind has totally collapsed from the strain. I like to think that if Guilliman spoke to anyone in the throne room, it was a slightly bonkers Dorn. Who has been holding back demons from the broken Imperial webway portal alongside the Custodes after faking his own death.

nareik wrote:

 Ryuhoshi wrote:
My honest opinion?
Guilliman entered there, poked the rotten, dirt corpse of the emperor and said "Well, he's even more dead than I expected. A shame i'm not even a psyker so i can't communicate with his mind or the remainings of it. Whatever, I shall fix this sh*t myself. I'll take your sword dad, it's OP. Thanks."

His exact words upon seeing the emperor were "And the winner of 100 centuries on a slab but then returned to life is ME, suck it gramps!"

XDDDD

Heretic, flat comments aside, really, I think Guilliman can be pretty mad at the Imperium right now. He has no answers of why did the emperor leave them. Nor a successor "just in case if, you know, he dies". If he's as powerful as he should or something remotely of him is still alive, then why the hell has he allowed all of this to happen? He can perfectly ask himself how has he been able to allow the administratorum to boost the Lectio Diviniatus as a religion, when he saw how the emperor humiliated his own son in frot of his legion (Lorgar) and destroyed his most precious city because he was being praised as a god? [The first heretic reference]

Either the Emperor is dead, either he has no longer power to communicate remotely with anyone -which is the same that being dead- either he actually does not care anymore. In any of these 3 cases, Guilliman is alone to "fix" the Imperium, so he has no need for keeping in mind his father's desires. So it's clear who is going to be the new boss now.

 Luciferian wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

I've always assumed that Girlyman "bottomed" for the Emprah, but didn't even get a reacharound for his trouble.

Considering that the Emperor isn't quite as virile as he used to be, that hardly seems like it would take all day.

But seriously though, if they DID speak with each other, how did they do it?

Clearly, a text-to-speech device.

 Ryuhoshi wrote:

nareik wrote:

 Ryuhoshi wrote:
My honest opinion?
Guilliman entered there, poked the rotten, dirt corpse of the emperor and said "Well, he's even more dead than I expected. A shame i'm not even a psyker so i can't communicate with his mind or the remainings of it. Whatever, I shall fix this sh*t myself. I'll take your sword dad, it's OP. Thanks."

His exact words upon seeing the emperor were "And the winner of 100 centuries on a slab but then returned to life is ME, suck it gramps!"

XDDDD

Heretic, flat comments aside, really, I think Guilliman can be pretty mad at the Imperium right now. He has no answers of why did the emperor leave them. Nor a successor "just in case if, you know, he dies". If he's as powerful as he should or something remotely of him is still alive, then why the hell has he allowed all of this to happen? He can perfectly ask himself how has he been able to allow the administratorum to boost the Lectio Diviniatus as a religion, when he saw how the emperor humiliated his own son in frot of his legion (Lorgar) and destroyed his most precious city because he was being praised as a god? [The first heretic reference]

Either the Emperor is dead, either he has no longer power to communicate remotely with anyone -which is the same that being dead- either he actually does not care anymore. In any of these 3 cases, Guilliman is alone to "fix" the Imperium, so he has no need for keeping in mind his father's desires. So it's clear who is going to be the new boss now.

you're assuming he does oppose religion, it may well be we're in "back up plan" territory.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Ryuhoshi wrote:

nareik wrote:

 Ryuhoshi wrote:
My honest opinion?
Guilliman entered there, poked the rotten, dirt corpse of the emperor and said "Well, he's even more dead than I expected. A shame i'm not even a psyker so i can't communicate with his mind or the remainings of it. Whatever, I shall fix this sh*t myself. I'll take your sword dad, it's OP. Thanks."

His exact words upon seeing the emperor were "And the winner of 100 centuries on a slab but then returned to life is ME, suck it gramps!"

XDDDD

Heretic, flat comments aside, really, I think Guilliman can be pretty mad at the Imperium right now. He has no answers of why did the emperor leave them. Nor a successor "just in case if, you know, he dies". If he's as powerful as he should or something remotely of him is still alive, then why the hell has he allowed all of this to happen? He can perfectly ask himself how has he been able to allow the administratorum to boost the Lectio Diviniatus as a religion, when he saw how the emperor humiliated his own son in frot of his legion (Lorgar) and destroyed his most precious city because he was being praised as a god? [The first heretic reference]

Either the Emperor is dead, either he has no longer power to communicate remotely with anyone -which is the same that being dead- either he actually does not care anymore. In any of these 3 cases, Guilliman is alone to "fix" the Imperium, so he has no need for keeping in mind his father's desires. So it's clear who is going to be the new boss now.

you're assuming he does oppose religion, it may well be we're in "back up plan" territory.

Well right now he is only one who knows.. He has alot of power in people not knowing and also is well the emparors only known living loyal son to people.
He got power and lots of it!
So unless the 300 blab on him... Which they would not. As they seem to sufficiently respect him to don there old armour and fight for him.

well I'm refering to the emperor. Gulliman it seems for now has accepted that the Ecclesiarchy is a better ally to have then an enemy, but apparently it "took some doing" to convince him. the question is weather he'll mearly tolerate them, or see the uses the church could have and publicly embrace it in an attempt to whip the IoM into a frenzy.

BrianDavion wrote:
well I'm refering to the emperor. Gulliman it seems for now has accepted that the Ecclesiarchy is a better ally to have then an enemy, but apparently it "took some doing" to convince him. the question is weather he'll mearly tolerate them, or see the uses the church could have and publicly embrace it in an attempt to whip the IoM into a frenzy.

He could remain more passive, not openly insult them and rein in the more extreme sects.
Make use of the religious aspect to help.