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Hi All-
Meeting a friend at my FLGS for my first games of SWA this Friday, and I'm trying to decide which kill team to run:

Conservative Long Range(1000 pts):

Scout Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword

Scout: Camo Gear, Sniper Rifle
Scout: Camo Gear, Sniper Rifle

Scout Gunner: Camo Gear, Photo-visor, Plasma Gun, Telescopic Sight
Scout Gunner: Camo Gear, Photo-visor, Plasma Gun, Telescopic Sight

or

Aggressive Short Range(995 pts)

Scout Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Power Sword

Scout: Bolter, Combat Blade
Scout: Bolter, Combat Blade

Scout Gunner: Photo-visor, Melta Gun
Scout Gunner: Photo-visor, Melta Gun

Not having even seen the rules yet (but for snippets online), I don know much - e.g. how bad it is that plasma guns are unreliable. I'm guessing the first list, plinking away at 36" with the Sarge for counter-assault, will probably be the stronger list, but getting up in people's faces with melta guns sounds fun too. Since I'm pretty much in the dark, I'd like everyone's thoughts.

Bolter > Sniper Rifle any day

"unreliable" is a joke.
You have to make 6 on your shoot then a double 1 on your ammo roll.
It's only 1 chance on 216!

Using the rules like this, I don't think that anyone will ever shoot in low energy mode.
Personnaly, I will bring back the old "one turn to recharge after a high energy shoot" (or make unreliable take place with any failed ammo roll and not only a 1-1)

Oh and I would take the photo-visors on plasma or melta, because photo-visors are "move or fire" if you want to use them. But on the sniper rifle, it would be fine.
But for only 5 points (the cost of camo gaer) more (or the 20 points cost of telescopic sight) you could take toxic rounds for the sniper rifle.

Hi, just replying because lots of snippets are going around now, but with the book next to me, I'm just going to share some things in the spirit of being helpful.

Plasma Guns have a 7+ Ammo Roll, one of the highest in the game, please be advised. The problem with the Plasma Gun and Meltagun, beyond any issues with ammo rolls, is that they really are very anti-vehicle/anti-Terminator for an Infantry game that has no vehicles and very rarely a Terminator (maybe your friend is planning to bring one, though).

Ironically, the humble Flamer, does very well here, in a game full of stacking cover modifiers and such. You will find enemies within 2 inches of each other to support each other for Pinning Recovery, etc.

EDIT - I was mistaken. Photo-visors are "move or fire". Another upgrade, Telescopic Sight, is also "move or fire". They were worded differently, thus my mistake.

The simplest recommendation is this: bring like a bunch of your Scout models to the FLGS, with different armaments, because you're not bringing a full army, so it shouldn't be a burden.. Then at the FLGS, look over the actual game book and pick your units after checking it out.

It's not your fault (GW completely misforecasted the huge demand on this one) and I like your readiness planning, but because the rulebook still isn't available, the snippets of information seem to be causing confusion rather than clarification.

I could be wrong, but "A stationary fighter equiped with a photo-visor reduces the penalty when...".
So telescopic sight AND photo-visor seems to be "move or fire".

Dreyf wrote:
I could be wrong, but "A stationary fighter equiped with a photo-visor reduces the penalty when...".
So telescopic sight AND photo-visor seems to be "move or fire".

My apologies, thanks for correcting me on that one, both are "move or fire", just worded differently. I've appended my post.

So, your comment on flamers made me take a second look at my IG models. Can anyone with the book tell me what hotshot las guns do?

I could definitely bring a variety of guard models and put something together

chmcclellan wrote:
So, your comment on flamers made me take a second look at my IG models. Can anyone with the book tell me what hotshot las guns do?

I could definitely bring a variety of guard models and put something together

Np, being extra careful now because I done goofed last time.

A laspistol or lasgun firing with this ammo type (hotshot is treated as a separate ammo upgrade to las-weapons, rather than a weapon in itself) gets +1 Strength. but the Ammo Roll is worsened to 6+. It does not offer any negative modifiers to the enemy saving throw.

But be advised, for comparison purposes: a Lasgun + hotshot laser power pack costs MORE than a Boltgun costs but is actually WORSE.

It's counter-intuitive, but I think that isn't an oversight, rather it's due to the campaign rules where you get points to upgrade your list between games. IG, being cheaper per person, max out on how on their squad size very early on (IG can have max of 10 members, just like Space Marine Scouts, even though each Guardsman is much cheaper). Thus, they end up having a lot of points to play with in the Long Game (i.e. over the course of a campaign) and can easily afford to spend points on upgrades like this.

In short, the hotshot lasguns might be worth taking late in a Campaign, but probably not your first game.

Other quick info about the Astra Militarum Veteran Kill Teams. Their faction special rule is the Voice of Command, where the Leader can forgo his own shooting to give a member within 6" a reroll To Hit rolls of 1. Unlike other factions that can usually take just 2 Heavy Weapon/Special Weapons guys, IG can take 3. Sniper Rifles for them are considered a Special Weapon (whereas it's just a normal gun for Scouts). Their Special Weapons list includes: Sniper Rifle, Flamer, Demolition Charge, Plasma Gun, Meltagun, Heavy Flamer (unique to them iirc) and Grenade Launchers.

Thanks, now I guess I'm leaning towards an IG kill team. Las guns have the lowest ammo roll, and they have access to a wider range of gear. With carapace, the vets are almost as survivable as scouts.


So, how does advancement work? I guess I can't see why you would take new recruits to save only 10 points..

Also, what does toxic ammo do?

Something like this sounds fun:

Vet Sarge: Carapace, Bolt Pistol

Vet: Carapace, Las Gun, Combat Blade
Vet: Carapace, Las Gun, Combat Blade
Vet: Carapace, Las Gun, Combat Blade

Vet Special Weapon: Carapace, Heavy Flamer
Vet Special Weapon: Carapace, Plasma Gun
Vet Special Weapon: Carapace, Sniper Rifle, Clip Harness

A quick reply.

After a battle, your team grows with new recruits or experience. You get 100 points to Recruit a new guy and equip him, OR 100 points to Rearm with new gear for any and all existing guys.

A raw Recruit, like a non-Veteran basic Guardsman, "levels up" and becomes a Trooper level, in his case a Veteran Guardsman with a BS4, after he does his 3rd mission without being knocked out.

You can pick 1 non-Recruit for an Advancement, which means an improved stat or a new skill (you roll on a table, which either gives you a choice of stats or tells you you can choose a Skill table, which is a separate roll) after a mission. Doesn't have to have the most kills or score the objective, just your choice. One nice touch is that, depending on your Chapter (for Marines) or Regiment (Catachan, Cadian, Steel Legion) or even Ork Clan (Blood Axe, etc.) you get different skill tables. You choose the table according to your sub-faction, make a roll there.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense of IG to start as a Recruit, like you pointed out, due to the incremental cost. Unless you plan on taking 2 Recruits armed with only the free blade, and Rearm him with a rifle or at least a pistol in your next Rearm.

But for a faction like Orks, their Recruits, Yoofs, are half the price of a regular Ork Boy. That dynamic is different for them. Meanwhile, a Recruit level Space Marine "Novitiate" Scout (WS 3/BS 3) with a Bolt Pistol is exactly 100 points.

TL;DR - some options that don't make sense for you makes a lot of sense for others, I've found.

Toxic Ammo needs some context. In Shadow Wars, like Necromunda, shooting is great for controlling your opponent via Pinning (which can lock them out for a turn), but isn't really fatal, doesn't take them Out of Action (i.e. off the board) unless you're really lucky. Close combat is better for taking people out.

However, Toxic Ammo makes it more likely to take people Out of Action...still requires some good luck to do so, though. Not sure if worth it, it's one of those things I'd get later on.

Carapce Armour is a decent choice, not sure if that's better than Camo Gear which in this game reduces the range that enemies can attack you by 4" (rather than an increased cover save). Camo Gear can be very, very impressive for its cost. I have it on Nurgle Space Marines, really screws up the enemy's dynamics.

As AM/IG goes, you can actually equo a squad exactly as you see it on the cover of the box of models, and it should be exactly 1000 points.

Similarly with Sniper Scouts that should clock in at 995. I wonder if the general intent of the designated points costs was with that in mind.

I use Chaos rules with Mark of Khorne to represent Space Wolves....