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2017/04/20 08:34:20
Subject: AdMech canticles-conferring special rules?
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Fresh-Faced New User
Budapest
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This is a question regarding specifically the Shroudpsalm AdMech canticle. As per Codex Imperial Agents, all friendly units with the Canticles rule receive stealth, shrouded or both, depending on the number of units with the Canticles special rule. However, according to the general rules, Shrouded is a conferred special rule, which would imply that an IC Techpriest joining, say, an IG squad, would confer Shrouded to that squad after Shroudpsalm is activated. Is this correct?
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2017/04/20 09:00:53
Subject: AdMech canticles-conferring special rules?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Yes.
The units (including ICs) with the Canticle Special Rule get Stealth and/or Shrouded.
Both of these USRs require only one model in the unit to have the rule for the entire unit to benefit.
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2017/04/20 18:47:43
Subject: Re:AdMech canticles-conferring special rules?
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Fresh-Faced New User
Budapest
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Ok, thanks!
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2017/05/02 04:18:56
Subject: AdMech canticles-conferring special rules?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Just an FYI Stephanius is correct as that is RAW, but its very clear that this is not as intended. As described in the canticles rules description. Although technically it is conferred, the rules explicitly state the only ones who benefits from any of the effects are models with the special rules CoO.
When playing with your friend inform him, you're cheesing.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/02 04:19:19
8th Overhaul!
Over 18,000 SM
Over 7000 Tyranids
About 3000 Genestealer cult
About 6000 IG
About 2500 Chaos
About 5000 Skitarii/Admech *Current focus
About 3000 Deamons
2 Imperial Knigts... Soon to be a third
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2017/05/02 04:50:29
Subject: AdMech canticles-conferring special rules?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Tsol wrote:Just an FYI Stephanius is correct as that is RAW, but its very clear that this is not as intended. As described in the canticles rules description. Although technically it is conferred, the rules explicitly state the only ones who benefits from any of the effects are models with the special rules CoO.
When playing with your friend inform him, you're cheesing.
No, you are not cheesing if you follow the rules. You are simply following the rules.
Shroudpsalm writes the Stealth/Shrouded special rule on the datasheet of all friendly units with the Canticles of the Omnissah special rule.
The wording of Stealth and/or Shrouded confer the ability of those special rules from the models that have those special rules on their datasheets to the unit that contains at least one model with the Stealth and/or Shrouded special rules.
The ICs who spread the Stealth and/or Shrouded abilities are doing so by design.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/02 04:51:16
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2017/05/02 05:17:31
Subject: AdMech canticles-conferring special rules?
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Second Story Man
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Tsol wrote:Just an FYI Stephanius is correct as that is RAW, but its very clear that this is not as intended. As described in the canticles rules description. Although technically it is conferred, the rules explicitly state the only ones who benefits from any of the effects are models with the special rules CoO.
When playing with your friend inform him, you're cheesing.
Not really. If it was a situation where they were giving out improved Cover Saves, you would be correct. But it gives out Stealth, which in turn, includes everyone in the unit.
But hey, if they intended otherwise, they should have darn well said it.
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Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right. |
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2017/05/03 08:40:56
Subject: AdMech canticles-conferring special rules?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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They pretty much did. It says it in the canticles, that only units with this special rules benefit from whatever doctrine/canticles you pick.
Its cheesing because RAW its allowed, but not what was intended. You can do it, and I think the current tournament setting allows it as well. But whenever you do such things, it's at least polite to tell your opponent.
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8th Overhaul!
Over 18,000 SM
Over 7000 Tyranids
About 3000 Genestealer cult
About 6000 IG
About 2500 Chaos
About 5000 Skitarii/Admech *Current focus
About 3000 Deamons
2 Imperial Knigts... Soon to be a third
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2017/05/03 14:13:05
Subject: AdMech canticles-conferring special rules?
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Second Story Man
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Tsol wrote:They pretty much did. It says it in the canticles, that only units with this special rules benefit from whatever doctrine/canticles you pick.
They say a lot of things that are countered in many ways. The whole concept that is in the FAQs that Special Rules that directly affect the unit as a whole do not pass between IC & Unit makes rules like Stubborn and Stealth not work in the first place, because that is exactly what they do.
Tsol wrote:Its cheesing because RAW its allowed, but not what was intended. You can do it, and I think the current tournament setting allows it as well. But whenever you do such things, it's at least polite to tell your opponent.
If it is what is RAW, then it is not cheesing. If it is only cheesing because it doesn't match what you think was intended, then maybe you should adjust your paradigm as to what is cheesing and what is not.
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Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right. |
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2017/05/03 14:30:11
Subject: Re:AdMech canticles-conferring special rules?
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Ship's Officer
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Back in 5th or 6th (could have been early 7th, tbh, I really don't remember) people asked this exact question with regards to a Commissar or Company Commander taking a Camo Cloak and granting Stealth (or the equivalent effect) to the entire unit. GW answered very clearly with something similar to:
"Yes, the entire unit gains the benefit. It is assumed the stealthy model is able to share their knowledge or at least tell the rest of the members of his unit to keep their heads down!"
It is a powerful technique (one I haven't used yet as I don't run solo Techpriests, but I do run IG allies with my AdMech) so I understand the feeling that it's going "against the spirit of the rules." However, I really don't think it's particularly game-breaking nor is it particularly unfluffy. Techpriest has big enough incense generators to create a big enough cloud to cover his unit. It's no 'cheesier' than putting a model that gives a 4++ to a unit into a blob of 50 Guardsmen.
This being said, if you really think your opponent is going to be upset, you can certainly explain the situation. I've never had an issue with people getting mad about Canticles or Doctrines, even if they can be rather abused at times.
DoW
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"War. War never changes." - Fallout
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