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Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




This continues to be a big issue, and one in my opinion that is worth discussing, as colleges and universities continue to be main purveyors of higher education. The topic spills over to other threads frequently, but is not necessarily applicable to the issue of the thread, and veers things off topic. So I thought a dedicated thread might be worthwhile to engage in civil discussion and debate over where free speech should begin and end on college campuses (as distinct from constitutional rights for free speech).

Here's a germane article I found while perusing CNN's website:

War on campus
The escalating battle over college free speech
By Eliott C. McLaughlin, CNN
(http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/20/us/campus-free-speech-trnd/index.html)

Free speech came to fisticuffs before alt-right white nationalist Richard Spencer could even begin his speech at Auburn University. Students encircling the brawl said a Spencer supporter began jawing with an antifa, or anti-fascist, protester over Spencer's right to speak. A punch was thrown. The men spun through the crowd, swinging fists and grasping for headlocks before thudding to the ground. It was over in seconds with both men in cuffs -- one of them bloodied -- and carted off to jail. Auburn had tried four days earlier to cancel Spencer's speech Tuesday night. But a federal judge forced the public university to let him exercise his First Amendment rights.
The episode comes amid what critics say is a growing intolerance for the exchange of ideas at American colleges and universities. In recent months battles over free speech on campuses have descended into violence across the nation. The University of California, Berkeley, erupted into near-riots in February during protests against professional provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos and again last week over President Donald Trump. When eugenicist Charles Murray spoke last month at Middlebury College in Vermont, protesters got so rowdy that a professor accompanying him was injured.
More and more American universities are avoiding controversial speech altogether by banning polarizing speakers. On Wednesday Berkeley said it would seek to cancel next week's scheduled speech by right-wing pundit Ann Coulter, citing safety concerns. And students say the middle ground on campuses is in danger of becoming quicksand, a place where neither side dares tread.
"There's no test, just an escalation of hostilities on both sides," said Tyler Zelinger, 21, a senior studying political science and business at Atlanta's Emory University. "When there's no more argument, there's no more progress."

--Students are quick to shut down opposing ideas--
Assaults on college free speech have been waged for decades, but they used to be top-down, originating with government or school administrators. Today, experts say, students and faculty stifle speech themselves, especially if it involves conservative causes.
Harvey Klehr, who helped bring controversial speakers to Emory during his 40 years as a politics and history professor, said the issues college students rally around today come "embarrassingly from the left." Oppose affirmative action or same-sex marriage and you're branded a bigot, he said. Where debate once elevated the best idea, student bodies are now presented slanted worldviews, denying them lessons in critical thinking, he said. "History is full of very, very upsetting things. ... Grow up. The world is a nasty place," he said. "If you want to confront it, change it, you have to understand the arguments of nasty people."
Berkeley political science professor Jack Citrin began attending UCB in 1964 during the advent of the free speech movement, when Berkeley students "viewed ourselves as a beacon of the ability to handle all points of view." Universities expose young people to ideas and challenge what they believe about science, politics, religion or whatever. But many students today exist only in the bubble of what they believe, he said. "It's an indicator of the erosion of the commitment to open exchange and a retreat into psychobabble," Citrin said.

--Trump's rhetoric is spawning hate -- on both sides-
Twitter dubbed it #TheChalkening. Last year at Emory, someone used chalk to scrawl "Build the wall" and other pro-Trump messages near Emory's Black Student Union and CentroLatino. Some Emory students were livid and let the administration know it. One sophomore declared, according to the school newspaper, that protesters were "in pain." The reaction brought scorn from pundits such as HBO's Bill Maher, who said he wanted "to dropkick these kids into a place where there is actual pain."
As Emory sophomore Maya Valderrama, 20, left a February protest denouncing Trump's policy on sanctuary campuses, she said the outcry over the chalkings was overblown. She wasn't threatened by them, she said, but she understood the concern. This wasn't about politics, she said. Pro-Mitt Romney messages on campus hadn't threatened anybody, but Trump is hostile to segments of the student body. The chalkings represented "a visual affirmation of his hatred," Valderrama said.
College students have adopted some new terms to define when and how they feel threatened. A "microaggression" is an indirect, subtle and sometimes even unintentional discrimination against a minority group. Many students and their professors worry that when it comes to issues on campus, emotion rather than logic is driving the debate. Some students complain that hypersensitive classmates railing about "microaggressions," "trigger warnings" and "safe spaces" have committed assault on the First Amendment. Others, especially minorities, feel Trump's rise to power has emboldened conservative students to spew vitriol. Nathan Korne, a sophomore at Marshall University in West Virginia, welcomes Trump's attacks on political correctness because he's "tired of not being able to discuss open ideas."
But Yasmine Ramachandra, a 19-year-old at Ohio's Oberlin College, sees no silver lining. Trump is validating right-wingers who always wanted to snuff out certain speech, and his rhetoric has emboldened hatemongers, she said. Two days after Trump's election, she walked through a campus racial profiling protest where a group of counter-protesting bikers called her a terrorist and demanded she leave the country, Ramachandra said. "The bigger repercussion is (Trump) validating these other people," she said.
The anger cuts both ways, said University of New Mexico sophomore Alexus Horttor. She recently saw the Arab owner of a hookah shop kick a student out of his store over a Trump bumper sticker. "People feel their way is the right way, and it's only their way," Horttor said.

--Liberals are more likely than conservatives to suppress speech--
Spencer. Murray. Yiannopoulos. All three have been attacked by students for having extreme far-right views. Meanwhile, left-leaning speakers routinely appear on university campuses without fuss. The Foundation for Individual Rights in Education maintains an incomprehensive database of more than 300 attempts to disinvite campus speakers since 2000. About three-quarters of the attempts involved pressure from liberals.
Evolution and Israel are among the most controversial topics. But more often the disinvitation attempt stems from disagreements over immigration, gender, race, religion, sexual orientation or abortion. Yiannopoulos ticks several of those boxes.
The former Breitbart editor made free speech a buzzphrase when Berkeley protests turned violent during his appearance. The demonstrations made Yiannopoulos -- now persona non grata after appearing to condone pederasty -- a free speech martyr at the time. UC Berkeley's Citrin said that was the point. Yiannopoulos' speech was staged to challenge the school's commitment to free speech, he said. "There were a variety of calls for it not to be permitted to occur by a group of faculty who, frankly, didn't seem to understand the First Amendment very well," the professor said. "Free speech at Berkeley took a hit when it was all said and done."
Some students who attended protests against Yiannopoulos' planned speech at Berkeley told CNN they were relieved he couldn't share his message. But others who watched from the fringes were disappointed. "It's a sad irony in the fact that the free speech movement was founded here and tonight, someone's free speech got shut down," said Shivam Patel, a freshman who witnessed the protests on campus. "It might have been hateful speech, but it's still his right to speak."

--Students believe bigots hide behind the First Amendment--
When the chalkings appeared at Emory, some minority students felt targeted, said Lolade Oshin, 21, who is African American. Later, after students complained about feeling hurt, a national columnist wrote their parents should've whipped their "spoiled asses with a cat o'nine tails." National commentators chastised them as "snowflakes" -- people too vulnerable to face opposing views.
Oshin, a senior business major, feels such criticism is unfair. "As a black woman in America, I have no choice but to hear the other side," she said. "But because those individuals are privileged, they don't have to hear my side. ... One side has grown up having to be sensitive and to navigate a white man's world." "Safe spaces" are places where women, the LGBTQ community and racial and ethnic minorities can congregate with like-minded people without having to defend their own beliefs. Bigots hide behind free speech, she said, asking: How is it the Trump chalkings were free speech but student protests were not? "Have whatever beliefs you want. Say whatever you want, but if I feel you're dehumanizing me, I'm going to use the same right you're using to fight your ideas," she said. Oshin also sees hypocrisy in the reaction to the Yiannopoulos pederasty controversy. Conservatives defended Yiannopoulos after Berkeley, she said, but when he appeared to condone pedophilia rather than Islamophobia and bigotry, there were crickets from the right. "Is it what is offensive or who is being offended that matters? It is very interesting how conservatives are not screaming freedom of speech now," she said. "It seems to be a tactic used to quiet the marginalized and oppressed. But as soon as others feel threatened, it is not brought up."

--Some students are afraid to talk about touchy issues--
University of Oregon law student Garrett Leatham, 29, believes hearing both sides is integral to understanding an issue. "(Thomas) Jefferson did great things, but he owned slaves. We need to know both. Otherwise, we're stuck believing Columbus sailed the ocean blue and helped the Indians," he said. Teens' brains are developing, and critical thinking is essential to maturity, so "being able to listen to disagreeable opinions when you're that young and understanding what they're saying and why" is important to higher education, he said.
Horttor, the University of New Mexico sophomore, says her own growth has been stunted by the testy atmosphere on campus. Take religion. Horttor's mother is a Christian, but she knows many atheists. The 19-year-old's own leanings? "I don't know what I believe in yet because I haven't seen the man." But Horttor is reluctant to ask Christians why they believe and atheists why they don't, because she doesn't want to be ostracized. She sees a similar reluctance to discuss partying on campus. University administrators and student leaders seem to avoid the topic, she said, for fear of appearing to condone it. Meanwhile, parties play host to fights, binge drinking, drugs and sexual assaults, she said. Why not have forums on the dangers of binge drinking or on signs that a guy might be trying to victimize you? "People don't talk about the dangers of partying and what to look out for," she said. "It's like sex education. These things need to be addressed so no one gets hurt."

--But they will go to extremes to defend free speech--
Liam Ginn, a freshman at the University of Southern Maine, faced his classmates' fury this year when state Rep. Lawrence Lockman visited the Portland campus. The lawmaker has lashed out at Islam and gays. In 2014, he apologized for saying that if abortion is legal, rape should be legal, too, because "the rapist's pursuit of sexual freedom doesn't (in most cases) result in anyone's death." Students wanted Lockman disinvited, and as chair of the student senate, Ginn was part of a student government vote to remain neutral. He lost some friends over the decision, he said. Originally intended as a cue to alert trauma survivors about disturbing content, "trigger warnings" have since been expanded to include instances involving race, class, sexism and even privilege. Ultimately, Lockman delivered his remarks on immigration -- or "the alien invasion" -- and students engaged him in heated debate, Ginn said. Asked why he voted to remain neutral, Ginn, 24, said he'd never condone Lockman's rhetoric. But he did a stint in the US Navy before beginning college, and the experienced changed his views. "After putting five years down for this country, you realize you're defending all the laws that we stand for," Ginn said. "Otherwise, the past five years were a waste of my time."

--They will listen to speakers they disagree with if they're civil--
In 2015, liberal Sen. Bernie Sanders spoke at Liberty University, the Christian school in Virginia founded by evangelist Jerry Falwell. Senior Hannah Scherlacher, 22, said most of her classmates don't agree with Sanders' views. But when he visited campus there were no protests, no raised hackles, she said. Attendance at his speech was compulsory. Sanders made points students disagreed with, but he knew his audience, she said. He told the crowd of 12,000, "I want to support my arguments with what you believe -- your Bible, your Scripture," Scherlacher recalled. His "unifying tone" made Scherlacher "reflective on my role as a Christian to alleviate poverty." She revisited her Bible to study Jesus' condemnation of wealth and power. And Sanders spurred debates that carried on after he left, the public relations major said. "Everyone I talked to was glad he came," she said. "It's important to communicate with those we disagree with."

--But they will ignore speakers they see as hurtful--
Bob Richards, founding director of the Pennsylvania Center for the First Amendment at Penn State, earned scorn himself when he brought porn publisher Larry Flynt to campus in 2001. Faculty and a Philadelphia radio station demanded a disinvitation. Richards couldn't understand why intellectuals didn't jump at the chance to spar with Flynt. But he believes things may be worse now. "We see more of a willingness on the part of the public to stop expression. They're happy certain speech is cut out," the journalism professor said. "If you put something like that on a ballot, people would vote to regulate expression."
Ramachandra, the Oberlin student accosted by bikers, acknowledges clinging to her own truths. Oberlin is a bastion of the left, and it's unlikely someone like Spencer or Yiannopoulos would be invited to speak at the Ohio school, she said. If they were, there'd be anger but support. People would open up safe spaces to shield students from hurtful messages, she said. She's fine with that. A leader of Oberlin's debate team, Ramachandra said the difference between Liberty's reaction to Sanders and Berkeley's response to Yiannopoulos is simple. Sanders promotes policies, she said. Yiannopoulos was an alt-right darling who Twitter banned for harassment and who counts feminists, Muslims and social justice warriors as enemies. If students want to protest Yiannopoulos, avoid him or shut him down, it has little to do with the free exchange of ideas, she said. "I don't think I'm missing out on any political discourse" by tuning him out, she said. "I've already come up with my own counterpoints so I don't need them to come to campus and provoke me and hurt other people."


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/20 14:32:08


 
   
Made in us
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CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

I think it is incumbent on parents and kids to look at not only degrees but also 'cultures' when picking an institution to attend.

If you send your kid to UC Berkeley you can expect a certain culture. You shouldn't be surprised when it exists.

I suspect (but have no evidence) it is a very vocal yet relatively small number of folks at these universities which are so rabid that they act out in these ways. They do get the attention so the problem seems bigger than it is.

But I'm an old guy. I attended college in the late 80s (graduated in '91). For 'political awareness week' our student gov't brought in the (now late) Abbie Hoffman to speak/organize a rally. Back then he garnered some of the hippyish crowd, but as I walked past in my BDUs on the way to my ROTC lab and he started spouting off on 'YOU CAN KICK ROTC OFF YOUR CAMPUS!' he also got heckled a bit by folks yelling "feth you, at least the cadets have a job when they graduate' and similar.


Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
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@Cpt Jake: I agree. If I had a kid going to school, I'd want to do extra research into what kind of culture they're getting themselves into. It seems to me like if you land on the wrong kind of university, the way things are going at some places, I'd be scared my kid could be ostracized or even assaulted for not having the correct checkbook of ideas.

But this is kind of a hard thing to discover. How would you recommend finding this stuff out. It's easy when the school is famous and/or gets alot of publicity for anti-free speech behavior, like UC Berkeley, Yale, and Missouri. Bit if your kid was looking at a smaller or less famous school, what would be a good way to tell if the school had caught the anti-free speech bug?

I mean, no school is going to advertise that their student or faculty culture are against free speech principles.

I guess one way would be to visit the school and try to talk to some students about what it's like there, which is probably a very good idea anyways. I wonder if students would be honest and forthcoming to visitors if they felt their schools culture was hostile to free speech.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/20 14:50:17


 
   
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The Great State of Texas

And Berkeley cancels Coulter speech for safety reasons:
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/UC-Berkeley-orders-cancellation-of-Ann-Coulter-11084299.php

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
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CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

 jasper76 wrote:

But this is kind of a hard thing to discover. How would you recommend finding this stuff out. It's easy when the school is famous and/or gets alot of publicity for anti-free speech behavior, like UC Berkeley, Yale, and Missouri. Bit I'd your kid was going to a smaller or less famous school, what would be a good way to tell if the school had caught the anti-free speech bug?
.


I would bet some good time on Google, looking at their alumni pages and notable alumni and faculty linked in and Facebook accounts, student gov't activities, funded clubs and so on will give you a pretty decent idea.


Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur






It would be interesting to see whether Berkeley's behavior, their student culture, and the riots we've been seeing actually have an effect on Berkeley. I wouldn't send a kid of mine there. But I suspect it's still perceived as a prestigious school, so I wonder if they'll even feel any negatives on the bottom line. If there's no financial pressure to change I think they're gonna keep trucking along on the path they are on with this anti free speech stuff.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's an interesting and notable admission that Berkeley has made....they can't protect their students from riots.

Sounds like an awesome place to send your kids! PR gold

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/04/20 15:05:52


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

In the last two decades, the university has been more conservative then the tiny town of Berkeley actually. They still have their cooks but it has major science/computer departments and arguing the best of the UC business schools (UCLA disagrees).

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Maryland

It's an interesting topic. Personally, I'd rather that these speakers either be ignored, or if they do want to protest, buy out the tickets for the presentations, enter, and stay completely silent the entire time, limiting the feedback for the speakers. Alternatively, prepare questions that present the worst aspects of the speakers views.

The problem I'm seeing is highlighted by the article; find me a conservative speaker who was canceled that wasn't acting as a provocateur, without substantive content to their presentations - professional trolls who aim to make people made, but not think. All the high profile cases at Berkeley deal with the worst of "conservative" speakers. If Sanders had gone to LU with the intent to tell the student base that conservative and heterosexuals aren't real people, I wouldn't have a problem with LU canceling his speech. There's a difference between limiting substantive speech and stopping garbage.

Add in a non-university affiliated anarchist presence likely doesn't help. I'm sure students at Berkeley are more likely to be injured biking around the city than they are to be injured in a riot, but I don't hear people calling for cars to be removed from the streets.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/04/20 15:35:37


   
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Between Alpha and Omega, and a little to the left

Because someone need to be the dissenting voice here, where exactly is this expectation that colleges need to be this open arms place when no where is given the same? The military, the work place, church, and most common meetings places you're told to shut up and listen to the boss. Even at home political talk is frown upon. But colleges, which are general considered liberal places, are expected to listen to whatever coot want to come in a sprout whatever nonsense, even superseding the idea that if someone doesn't want to listen to what someone has to say then they don't have to. No part of the 1st amendment says a stage and an audience must be provided yet here we are, people demanding a stage and an audience.

There's an extreme lack of even handedness here.

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Bonespitta's Badmoons 1441 pts.  
   
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Maryland

I also find it interesting that conservatives were perfectly willing to use Yiannopoulos as a martyr, right up until it turned out he supported pedophilia, which saw him dropped like a hot potato and his CPAC speech cancelled.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/20 15:41:42


   
Made in us
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CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence



I think the 'expectation' of colleges needing to have open arms comes from the fact that many/most of those without open arms are taking tax payer $$$ (state and or Fed). When tax payer funded faculty lead the charge of intolerance, it tends to piss off tax payers even more.

Had they been purely private and privately funded then the issue would not be such a big deal.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/20 15:43:31


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This is again nothing really but a USA politics thread.


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