Switch Theme:

Anti-Lizardmen Vampire Counts 2.4k points  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

So this list is intended to match up against Lizardmen. The lizardmen list I'm expecting to face of course includes a Slan, lore of life in a unit of 30 temple guard, Saurus core, steggadon's supporting probably a few skink skirmishers.

Lord:
Count Manfred

Hero's:
Vamp: Bsb, staff of damnation, seed of rebirth, red fury, enchanted shield, heavy armor
Cairn Wraith
Cairn Wraith

Core:
30 Crypt Ghouls: Ghast
40 Zombies: Command
40 zombies: command
5 dire wolves

Special:
Corpse cart: balefire
30 grave guard: banner of the barrows, great weapons, full command
6 crypt horrors: haunter

Rare:
Mortis Engine: Blasphemous Tome
Mortis Engine

Manfred im a little iffy about. On the one hand his defense is very poor for a 500+ point model, 5+ and 5++ with the Mortis eff, 5 wounds and T5- not terrible, also his sword effect makes him hard to use effectively in this list since I don't really want him in the front line against elite lizardman infantry. On the other hand his dedicated caster abilities make him a solid choice for a solo caster lord, the main reason for me taking him is his loremaster of both lore of death and vamps. I was considering Kemmler but I really do need lore of death in this match up Not only is it an ensured vanhels but also an ensured purple sun-the bane of I1 lizardmen. Not keen to keep him in zombies so I'll probably keep him on the flank of the grave guard to keep him away from any major action.
The vamp mini-blender is there for combat res and a few extra kills as well as a good method of getting off invocations and staff of damnation eff. I'm going to keep him in the grave guard and keep them next to the crypt horrors to tag team threatening units-namely the temple guard life-stars like that he can aoe the horrors and grave guard with the staff. The rest of my army is essentially meant to hold up and tarpit the lizardmen's relatively low offense infantry while my two hammer units delete his main units, blocks of zombies with 5++ will be incredibly annoying to shift especially considering how easy they are to resurrect. The corpse cart is there to ensure my grave guard and horrors are striking first with those great weapons while also using bale fire upgrade combined with the Morris engines blasphemous tome to try and give me command of the magic phase. The mortis engines are obviously primarily there for the ++, I'm not expecting much from them offensively. The wraiths are there to sponge wounds and throw out some extra attacks for a low price. Being ethereal they should be very hard for the lizards to deal with. The ghouls will be sat on a flank as in every list I run there to deal with high toughness monsters-steggadon's.

The plan is essentially rush the temple guard+slan with the grave guard and horrors+vamp asap, get them in to combat and prevent the slan from spamming dwellers and hope they can break them, the zombies can tarpit everything else while the ghouls deal with any remaining threats.
This is my least favourite match up since I feel like the lizardmen have so many tools to make vampires un-life very difficult but I'll do my best.

Any thoughts on the list, how could it be improved? Will this be a total flop?
   
Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Ok. I approve of taking Mannfred, bioy do you have to pay for him but both versions of the character have their value. Mini-Manfred is a cheap(ish) loremaster, the full fat version is one of the nastiest casters in the game. The only problem is that he has no defence against miscasts as he has no ++.
However double Mortis fixes that and is a natural boost to the character, especially has he has wounds to burn on miscasts and a solid leeway that he is likely to be able to get them back before he is destroyed.
My only note is that your opponent will know what Mannfred has got, and iof they do not as a special character you ought to show them the page of the army book so they are adequately warned. Lizards have nasty defensive items, notably Cube of Darkness.

I am not sure about the multi-role mini-blender, he is trying to do too much. Still he will have qa 4++ when all is said and done, and I assume there is a wraith in his unit to troll challenges.

Zeds are good here as they are the cheapest tarpit, however even if the mini-blender is autoset for Nehek you only have a max of two Neheks in the army, that is likely not enough to spam zeds. Find space for a level 1 necro for a third Nehek and give him a dispel scroll, you might need it. I would also consider four units of 20 than two of 40 zeds, if you get three Neheks and top up them all, as much as you can before combat, and drop the wolves as lizardmen are one of the best skirmish armies out there, they wont get anywhere or achieve anything.

Corpse cart is a good idea here, especially the synergy with grave guard with great weapons vs Saurus. However Balefire will not do zip against a toad's casting. Lorestone on the other hand will greatly help with summoning zeds and regaining models after a round of combat losses, which is likely to be heavy.

The rest of your army is fine, though drop the blasphemous Tome from the Mortis engine. While it has a +2 casting buff the miscast problem is big, especially as you will be casting big spells with Mannfred in game, its why you bought him. He doesn't need +2 casting and you want twin linked miscasts like a hole in the head. To make matters worst toads still have miscast mitigation, not as fully as they used to but are still one of the few factions with the ability. Wandering Deliberations is not an unlikely toolbox toad pick, and that wont generally miscast at all. Blasphemous Tome is for an offensively used Mortis engine you run into the enemy and for a low caster army, it's great if you take four level 1's as your caster battery, go full Nehek, (plus bound spells) and take easy dice casts. You don't want it for a level 4, you certainly **DON'T** want it with Mannfred. Your chance of not rolling a 5-9 on 2d6 twice is not good, it will all end badly if you Power Drain as you spent 570pts for guaranteed Purple Sun and you lose any recast ability, or the 50% chance of Khorne eating Manny after a S10 hit.

Other than that your list concept is fairly solid, but I would run it by some lizardmen players first, I am not qualified to speak about the counters.
Start by reading about reptiles here:
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer/Tactics/8th_Edition/Lizardmen

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/24 01:43:10


n'oublie jamais

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
 
   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

 Orlanth wrote:
Ok. I approve of taking Mannfred, bioy do you have to pay for him but both versions of the character have their value. Mini-Manfred is a cheap(ish) loremaster, the full fat version is one of the nastiest casters in the game. The only problem is that he has no defence against miscasts as he has no ++.
However double Mortis fixes that and is a natural boost to the character, especially has he has wounds to burn on miscasts and a solid leeway that he is likely to be able to get them back before he is destroyed.
My only note is that your opponent will know what Mannfred has got, and iof they do not as a special character you ought to show them the page of the army book so they are adequately warned. Lizards have nasty defensive items, notably Cube of Darkness.

I am not sure about the multi-role mini-blender, he is trying to do too much. Still he will have qa 4++ when all is said and done, and I assume there is a wraith in his unit to troll challenges.

Zeds are good here as they are the cheapest tarpit, however even if the mini-blender is autoset for Nehek you only have a max of two Neheks in the army, that is likely not enough to spam zeds. Find space for a level 1 necro for a third Nehek and give him a dispel scroll, you might need it. I would also consider four units of 20 than two of 40 zeds, if you get three Neheks and top up them all, as much as you can before combat, and drop the wolves as lizardmen are one of the best skirmish armies out there, they wont get anywhere or achieve anything.

Corpse cart is a good idea here, especially the synergy with grave guard with great weapons vs Saurus. However Balefire will not do zip against a toad's casting. Lorestone on the other hand will greatly help with summoning zeds and regaining models after a round of combat losses, which is likely to be heavy.

The rest of your army is fine, though drop the blasphemous Tome from the Mortis engine. While it has a +2 casting buff the miscast problem is big, especially as you will be casting big spells with Mannfred in game, its why you bought him. He doesn't need +2 casting and you want twin linked miscasts like a hole in the head. To make matters worst toads still have miscast mitigation, not as fully as they used to but are still one of the few factions with the ability. Wandering Deliberations is not an unlikely toolbox toad pick, and that wont generally miscast at all. Blasphemous Tome is for an offensively used Mortis engine you run into the enemy and for a low caster army, it's great if you take four level 1's as your caster battery, go full Nehek, (plus bound spells) and take easy dice casts. You don't want it for a level 4, you certainly **DON'T** want it with Mannfred. Your chance of not rolling a 5-9 on 2d6 twice is not good, it will all end badly if you Power Drain as you spent 570pts for guaranteed Purple Sun and you lose any recast ability, or the 50% chance of Khorne eating Manny after a S10 hit.

Other than that your list concept is fairly solid, but I would run it by some lizardmen players first, I am not qualified to speak about the counters.
Start by reading about reptiles here:
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer/Tactics/8th_Edition/Lizardmen

I agree about the necro, it's probably worth dropping 1 of my wraiths, the mortis tome and the wolves. Initially my thought process was soured magical dominance with manfred, balefire and the tome but I guess it's overkill. In terms of the zombies, I get your thinking but I am worried about salamander packs, they chew through massed infantry at a crazy rate, I feel like I need stable blocks to ensure that they will have enough numbers left after the flames subside to survive combat
   
Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Lizards don't have great artillery, and you can normally get a couple of rounds of Nehek in before combat. Minimum zombie stacks can grow quickly, and if the enemy does concentrate fire it will likely only destroy one stack, this also means your zeds are doing their job.
Dont worrit over losing a unit of zeds because it started small, that also meant it started cheap and you can take more stacks, and its harder to wipe out zeds than it looks with shooting. Also if the zeds do get wiped out why care, its the ghouls grave guard and crypt horrors you need to concentrate on. Let tarpits tarpit and use the time bought to use the main units.
Besides your zeds will be ASF, so they will cause a casualty or two even from remnant units.

Your main worry should be will you have enough zeds for four stacks of zombies boosted by up to three Neheks/turn.

n'oublie jamais

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
 
   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

Maybe you're right, also msu zombies will be useful in controlling deployment. We tend to play on relatively small boards though, so early charges are common. On an unrelated note the steggadon's 4D6 poisioned blowpipe shots are making my crypt horrors shake, could be worse though, it's not like they're going to be one turn killed and with 3 neheks on the board they are going to be regaining up to 13 wounds per turn

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/25 13:29:56


 
   
Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

With early charges, fine, then artillery is less of an issue. You feed two units of zeds into the first wave, holding back two and trying to grow all four. Half your zeds will be destroyed early, but with ASF you will set some swipes in before total crumble and can break up the lizardman charge.

You will need careful position and timing for your real units, but multiple saurus blocks, the main threat, are not so agile that you can't dictate general positioning with zombies and then strike into key combats to win them.

Lizards tend to be MSU, and the table area is small you say, so the Mortis engines will prove effective at whittling them down.

If Salamanders become a problem you should have range to Raise Dead into combat with them. It's nice to be able to plan your spells, yes. Very temporary solution though, expect the zeds to stop only one turn of shooting this way, and its expensive in power for the effect generated.

I think you can do fine with what you have got.

How are you reploying Mannfred? I have mine from the Mortarch set from a Skeleton Horde Getting Started box, and will be making a mounted Mannfred from that - and a black knight steed. I dont have a Mannfred on foot model at reasonable cost. I could convert one I suppose if I get another Manny from bits.

n'oublie jamais

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
 
   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

Honestly the Saurus don't really worry me that much, even though they have 2 attacks 5++ hordes of zombies are going to do wonders holding them down, especially if they're hitting first even if their damage output is horrendous. The main scary units are salamanders, ancient steggadon's and his temple guard star. Salamanders as you say are completely catchable and once their in combat they're not moving, the steggadon's (I believe he's gonna run two) will be a little more tricky, honestly it's their shooting that worries me, in terms of their damage only really the crypt horrors stand to lose in engaging with them, with msu zombies I can ensure during deployment that his triceratops are gonna be nowhere near them, I'm expecting them on th flanks tbh, either rushing one flank or taking one on each. I plan to tarpit one with zombies and hit the other with vanhels'd asf ghoul horde where their poison can really come into its own. In terms of the temple star I just feel like they probably won't be able to stand up to ask strength 6 grave guard+manfred+horrors. I can also try and whittle them down in the magic phase, I'm planning on sapping his dispel dice with augments and maybe some fate of buna/spirit leeches to keep his toad awake then trying to get off something like curse of years or purple sun on them. I know his cube can dispel them both but the chances are he'd also knock out his own throne of vines which is a good thing for me, plus I can always recast since I should have a decent magic phase with manny around.

It's gonna be hard making sure I get off all my augments and healing while trying to save dice for big damage spells too, I feel like I'm really going to need them to stand a chance. In terms of Manfred I have an on foot model luckily since it's the only real option for this list, nightmare would be worthless in this list and all an abyssal terror does is make him a larger, more isolated and easier to kill target sadly. I'm thinking to run him in the grave guard, probably on the flank that will be out of combat so he can make way as he pleases. On the one hand he'll be safe in a big, solid unit and in the thick of the fighting to get his sword working. On the other hand he'll be fighting the hardest some of the hardest infantry to get kills on in the game and will be in a dangerous position. Ideally I want him killing skinks, but that's almost certainly not going to be happening

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/26 00:59:50


 
   
Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

So, what happened?

n'oublie jamais

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
 
   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

 Orlanth wrote:
So, what happened?
Our game is scheduled for next Monday. Still not feeling good about this match up. I'm thinking of trying chaos dwarfs vs lizards as well, K'daii destroyers are just terrifying
   
Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Stick with what you have got. You are playing VC, you shouldn't just switch out because you face an unfavourable faction.

n'oublie jamais

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
 
   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

"as well" bud, I'd never drop an army because the match up wasn't favourable
   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

Sooo, I had 2 matches today vs my friend. First match was 2k points of VC's vs Ogres, second was my Chaos Dwarfs vs Lizardmen.
2 very different matches, both very very very close. The match vs ogres I was very unprepared for, I made the list in about 10 mins on the spot and so it was a very thrown together, awkward list. I think I missed out on a dispel scroll and red fury on my vamp and book of arkhan, banner of the barrows etc. I'll post my exact roster a bit later when I find it again but it was something along the lines of this:

Master Necro: Lv 4, talisman of preservation, earthing rod
Konrad Von Carstein
Vamp lv 2 bsb, enchanted shield, seed of rebirth

30 grave guard: command, great weapons
6 crypt horrors: haunter
30 crypt ghouls: ghast
3x 20 zombies: command
Corpse cart
Mortis Engine

I don't know the ogres well but I can remember his list roughly:
Slaughter master: lv 4, I'm not sure what items he was using but he was tooled up for combat
Bsb ogre character: dragonhide standard (very annoying)
Butcher: lv 2 lore of beasts and some item that forces miscast

15 ironguts
6 bulls
3 individual sabretusks
3 maneaters: poison and sniper effect, brace of pistols
3 leadbealchers
1 Ironblaster (infuriating)

So despite my MSU zombies he was controlling deployment with his sabretusks, i ended up with ghouls and bsb on the left flank, zombies left of the middle separated from the ghouls by a ruin, horrors in the dead centre, corpse cart between horrors and grave guard on the far right with Konrad (slightly staggered), mortis engine sat behind next to bunker unit of zombies with master necro.

I won't sugar coat it, I deployed waaay too far back. Usually I think I'm a pretty good vc general but this time I wasn't bringing my A game to say the least. On the one hand my zombie units were enormous by the time his units reached me. His skirmishes were all located opposite my right flank, so my grave guard and horrors were taking some serious firepower. His first shooting phase was brutal to say the least, I lost my mortis engine first turn because I didn't screen well enough with my horrors and he got an angle on it from the ironblasters.
His maneaters sniped Konrad and killed him and his leadbealchers killed 4-6 grave guard.

He moved up with the rest of his army, his sabretusks set up to block my charges (in front of my grave guard, in front of my ghouls and in front of my zombies). My deployment was so restrictive that I couldn't really do anything but sit there and take it, so I basically spent my whole magic phase trying to undo the damage of his shooting, I think it was turn 3 before I killed a single model, by that time he had sniped my corpse cart, my mortis engine, 2 crypt horrors and whittled down my grave guard. My ghouls killed his sabretusk and redirected into his ogre bulls, they+the vamp managed to kill 3 of the 6 bulls leaving his lore of beast butcher and 3 bulls, they lost 7 in return and ended up winning the combat. My caster miscast invocation on 2 Dice! Luckily I rolled a 6 and took minimal damage...until I miscast again on a SMALL vanhels...earthing rod saved me the second time+my necros 4++.

He was spraying my crypt horrors with shooting from the leadbealchers and maneaters but luckily I was out-healing it. His ironguts charged my grave guard, I believe they ended up making a 16" charge or some bs like that and in the same turn his ironblaster popped my corpse cart (luckily the eff had already gone off the on the graveguard). Just before that his lord miscast a 4++ regeneration on his ironguts and was killed in the ensuing roll. The ironguts Impact hits killed 7 grave guard, he used the breath weapon on the banner of dragonhide to kill 4 more and gave me ASL so we struck simultaneously, I killed 2 ogres and in return my grave guard all crumbled away, he overran slightly past my crypt horrors front arc.

I had 2 50+ man units of zombies at this point, his lord was dead and I was winning the fight on the left flank decisively, my lord was in great shape despite 2 miscast and I still had my crypt horrors and bsb vamp. It was turn 5 at this point and despite an early hammering and a lot of errors I felt like I could win so long as his ironguts didn't kill my crypt horrors. Originally he had been gunning for my lord but I managed to move him out of their front arc into safety, in my turn 6 my ghouls finally broke his bulls on the left and my vamp killed the buctcher robbing him of all his remaining magic and running the unit down, (his miscast item failed to reach my lord), one of my units of zombies, I believe it was 75+ models strong now killed another of his sabretusks and overran into the maneaters.

His ironguts had reformed to face my horrors and I was feeling very worried about them. If they met in combat my horrors would probably be killed outright and I'd lose the game. So being a boring, sly, cowardly VC general I 4 diced a raise dead in the tiiiny gap between the horrors and ironguts, blocking them from killing the horrors in his turn and winning me the match. When the dust had all settled I had won by a tiny margin...somehow...fair play to my opponent, he outplayed me the majority of the match, he was unlucky that his slaughtermaster was killed during the miscast, then again he was very lucky with his ironblaster rolls and underestimated the resilience of my left flank. In the end I attribute my win almost entirely to the fact that vampire units are so hard to completely kill and therefore just don't concede victory points

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/12 22:12:34


 
   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

The second match was very fun, very close and very back and forth. It was my first time EVER playing Chaos Dwarf's and a informative introduction, sadly he did counterpick me pretty hard, but then again the alternative was a monster heavy list which I would've torn apart so it's only fair really,

His list roughly:

Slann, anti-miscast, rulebook lore attribute spam. I don't know what else
2 skink preists: one was lore of heavens, not sure about the other, dispel scroll and cube of darkness (idk if name is correct, a 2+ dispel scroll)
Saurus scar veteran: 4+ ward save item, great weapon

24 temple guard, command
2x 20 or so saurus, hand weapons and shields (idk exact number)
2 units of 5 chameleon skins with blowpipes
2 units of 10 javelline skinks

My list roughly:
Sorcerer Prophet: lv 4 lore of death, talisman of preservation, dispel scroll
Daemonsmith sorceror: lore of fire, ruby ring of ruin, pistol
Infernal Castellan: bsb, enchanted shield, talisman of endurance, fire Glaive

20 infernal guard, full command, fire glaives
40 hobgoblins: command, shields

Magma cannon
Iron Daemon, hellbound
K'daii Destroyer

So...skink spam owned the deployment, and my K'daii zzz, no monsters for my expensive artillery to get ahold of, I wasn't feeling too good about this matchup.

I had my K'daii on the left flank, next to a big unit of hobgoblins deployed in 10 ranks by 5 for steadfast bonus with my bsb. In the gap between my goblins flank and my infernal guard+lord I put the magma cannon so it could fire directly into the temple guard star. I had my iron Daemon on the far right. He had a big unit of saurus facing my k'daii, 2 units of chameleon skins who deployed 6' to the side of my K'daii and another unit of 10 skinks with javellines on the same flank+skink priest. His temple guard were opposite my hobgoblins and staring straight into my magma cannon which was teamed with my daemonsmith . He had a second unit of saurus facing my infernal guard and iron Daemon and a second unit of 10 javelin skinks hidden behind ruins on the same flank with a second priest.

He started and managed to wound my K'daii with his skinks poison, his temple guard and saurus all moved up. I must say I was very unimpressed by the performance of the fire glaive infernal guard, their opening shooting killed 1 saurus, in total during the match they killed 1 saurus and 2 skink models....for 372 points. My magma cannon killed 3 saurus, my iron Daemon killed 2 saurus with its cannon.
Magic was largely uneventful.

My K'daii was totally exposed and got pincushioned with poisioned shooting attacks, he managed to escape with 1 wound left, again all his units moved up and his skinks blocked the saurus to prevent my K'daii from charging them, his skinks on the right flank moved around the ruins to shoot at my iron Daemon and managed 1 wound, his slanns searing doom managed another.

My magma cannon rolled horribly and only managed to kill 1 more temple guard, luckily my opponent had move slightly too far forward and my K'daii could just get into their flank around the back of the ruins. I charged him in just to get him out of the hail of poisioned shooting, he ended up killing a tonne of grave guard and slaughtering the expensive scar veteran. He sat in combat with them for two turns and managed to chew down a good amount of temple guard, my opponent used his slanns abilities to control the magic phase with 12 dice to my 5 so managed to easily get off some spells from lore of beasts to buff his TG until they finally finished the K'daii off.

At the same time my iron Daemon charged in to his saurus to prevent them getting into my infernal guard, it killed several on the charge and several more with its thunderstomp, taking no wounds in return, they held though. That particular combat ended up grinding out for 3 full turns before the war machine eventually broke them but failed to run them down. My lord 6 diced a purple sun (I was reallly trying hard to get the slann off the field) and miscast, I then rolled another misfire for the purple sun and it landed on my infernal guard killing 10 of them, luckily my lord survived the miscast.

The temple guard charged my hobgoblins (turned out to be a big mistake since they were locked there for 3 turns doing very little but killing chaff) while his chameleon skinks moved around the rear and spent two turns shooting into my magma cannon and daemonsmith, eventually killing the magma cannon, but not before it killed a few of the saurus advancing on the left flank. My hobgoblins tanked a hell of a lot of TG damage while my Castellan systematically killed a few in return per turn but we're getting whittled down. In the meantime my remaining infernal guard had lined up for a flank charge so in a ballsy move to block my flank charge (since he only had a 10 or so models in his unit), he challenged my Castellan with his slann to make any flank charge worthless.

Luckily for him my Castellan kept fluffing all his attacks. My iron Daemon finally managed to break his saurus who fled near to the edge of the map with only 4 models left. In my 5th turn his saurus were getting ready to flank charge my hobgoblins and end my last pocket of resistance, in my magic phase he used his slann to get 8 dispel dice to my 7 power dice so I again 6 diced a purple sun and again miscast, this time the miscast wiped my remaining infernal guard but didn't misfire, i sent it straight through the temple guard and slann killing all but 2 of them and the slann as well as 9 of my hobgoblins. I used the lore attribute of lore of death (since my caster managed to survive the miscast again) to power up my dice pool and then fate of buna'd his skink priest to death. My hobgoblins reformed to face the saurus and were joined by my daemonsmith.

In his turn 6 all his remaining skinks formed up to shoot my lord in an attempt to slay him, but he made all of his saves/resisted the damage. His saurus charged my hobgoblins and slew a good number of them, his unit of 4 saurus also rallied on the edge of the board. My characters in the hobgoblins ended up slaying most of the saurus against them but couldn't quite finish them off in his turn or my turn 6, my iron Daemon routed some skinks with its shooting who unfortunately didn't flee off the board, in the last combat of the game his saurus managed to kill enough of my hobgoblins to remove their steadfast, winning the combat by 5 and routing the unit including the characters. I rolled 10 to run and...he rolled a 10 and caught them killing both characters and gaining the victory points for all 3. That combined with his 4 saurus not fleeing off the board bagged him the win by under 200 points.

   
Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Thanks for the write up.

Remember what he took for Lizards, it would be useful to remember to notice what type of lizard player you are facing. Your pal is definitely a saurus player, rather than magic dominance or Lustria Park list. actually saurus heavy armies are IMHO the hardest to deal with. You are right to be concerned with how you will beat them with undead.

I am not fit to comment on Chaos Dwarfs I cant even say where to go for the right into.

Now your VC list. Thrown together in ten minutes, I hardly believe you. I see little wrong wit it. Your core choices were tight, you have the nasty stuff in unit choices and you had the meta choice of Konrad the ogre killer. Konrad sits in his coffin until ogres stray near Sylvania, then he joins each and every list that fights them. As a general rule of thumb dont field Konrad Von Carstein. He brings little to the tabletop except a huge pricetag. Red Fury? you can get that as standard. for 40pts you could have had a Mannfred. If your Necro died you would have had a Ld6 general who is subject to baiting. Sure gets a magic weapon for 5pts more than a vanilla vamp with Red Fury, but the vanilla vampire can buy a much better sword or a war save.
As it happens Konrad would be viable against ogres as he can have frenzy to add to paired weapon and red fury for a decent number of attacks doing double damage, even it capped at S5. Against other armies his double damage output only really use against monsters, who have higher T, or in challenges, which will not work easily due to the lack of a ward save. Here is the rub though, sure he is a blender of ogres, but he is T4 5+ and the big guys don't like him too much. A Tyrant or Bruiser with Sword of Striking can ruin his day. Beware of that, whi;e seen as an autoinclude vs ogres Konrad is NOT even against such a tailored opponent as Konrad insurance is one of the things a savvy OK player will try to bring in the list, and normally that involves baiting him, or smacking him first, one way or another. There are actually a dangeorus number of counters to Konrad, especially as you are relying on a cart to give him ASF to prevent him from being smacked first, and he is so easy to bait out of range.

No problem with the list, though it can be argued thart a master necromancer usually means you are going magic heavy and Konrad plus some change could have been swapped out for two Necromancers, but it isnt necessary to do that.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/14 23:23:06


n'oublie jamais

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
 
   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/08/14 22:23:43


 
   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

Update on the Lizards vs Vamps situation. I had a few fun games last week. I've been playing mainly Chaos Dwarfs and recently been testing out Brets/Dark Elves but I got in 2 matches with the undead.

The first was against chaos. We had just fought another quite competitive match so decided to play more fun lists. He brought a chaos monster-heavy list something along the lines of this:

Kholek
Throgg
12 chaos trolls
2 chimera with the works
Nurgle giant
Shaggoth

My list:
Vamp Blender Lv 4 on zombie dragon
Konrad
Banshee
Lv 1 vamp, red fury, Bsb, nightmare
7 blood knights with banner of eternal flame
30 crypt ghouls
6 horrors
2x 5 dogs
Numerous 20 zombies (you were right 20 zombie units are ludicrously more effective)
Black coach

Turn one:
I deployed my ghouls with Konrad, coach, banshee on the left flank opposite his two chimera and vanguard a unit of dogs up to bait a charge
My centre was my horrors supported by my general, on the right flank there was a bottle neck that forced his troll star+throgg over a hill in the centre. my blood Knights baited Kholek through the bottleneck and my zombies blocked off his other shaggoth and giant.
He took the bait and both chimera crashed into my dogs then overran into the crypt ghouls

Turn 2:
My coach went into one of the chimera's flank, the troll star went into my horrors, Kholek into the blood Knights and the giant and shaggoth both went into zombie units, my banshee screamed 3 wounds off the chimera, the ghouls/coach/Konrad combo killed it and layed down 2 wounds on the second. In return it opened up with thunderstomp, breath weapon and its attacks and after combat Rez there were 9 left and my banshee was gone. The trolls massacred the crypt horrors, but not before they killed a troll and brought throgg down a few wounds, Kholek killed 5 blood Knights but took 3 wounds, the zombies tar pitted their opponents.

Turn 3:
My lord had flown over the back of the chimera in turn 2 and resurrected a bunch of ghouls and one blood knight, the ghouls having finished off the second chimera in my opponents turn 2. I then used vanhels and hellish vigour on the ghouls which my opponent failed to dispel
The ghouls hit the front of the trolls as the coach (which had just gotten flaming attacks buff) hit their flank, my Lord flew back over in front of the Kholek/blood Knights fight to plug the potential gap.
The coach killed a troll with impact hits and denied them their regeneration, Konrad slew throgg and the vanhel/hellish buffed ghouls tore down 7 trolls for few casualties breaking the unit.
Kholek finished off the blood Knights after receiving 2 wounds from the vamp Bsb

Turn 4: my lord flew in and killed Kholek and we decided to call the game


Game 2
This time it was lizards vs Vamps, more serious lists.

His list was something along the lines of:

Slann (lore of high magic, neither of us ever use lore of life on a Lv 4 since dwellers and purple sun have a tendency to ruin games), anti-miscast power, 3 channels on 5+ power
2 skink priests
Saurus scar vet with 2+ rerollable armour and 4++ on cold one
26 temple guard
3 kroxigor
Salamander unit
2x 10 skinks with blowpipes
2 units of 22 Saurus one with spears, one with shields
Ancient steggadon

My list I don't remember exactly but I'll do my best:
Mannfred: hellsteed
Vamp Lv 1: red fury, great weapon, bsb, 5++
Corpse cart
30 ghouls
6 horrors
10 black Knights
30 grave guard: banner of the barrows, great weapons
30 skellies
2x black coach
2x 5 dogs
2x 20 zombies

The corpse cart really clutched this match for me if I'm honest.
Turn one:
his left flank was the salamander, 10 skinks+priest, the kroxigor facing off against one of my coaches, 5 dogs, 30 skellies
The centre was one block of his Saurus+the cold one riding scar vet, his temple guard and slann against my ghouls, the grave guard+vamp with the corpse cart and mannfred sat behind the front line buffing my troops. The right flank saw his spear armed Saurus fighting my horrors, his steggadon vs my black Knights and coach and his 10 skinks+priest vs my 5 dogs

Magic was largely uneventful most of the match, mannfred's master of the black arts was extremely helpful and he channeled almost every magic phase to boot. The first combat of the fight was my dogs into the skinks who they proceeded to lock in combat for 3 turns before eventually dying off. The steggadon somehow made an 17' charge and hit my black Knights before taking a black coach to the flank, between them they killed it and ran down the skinks, over the course of 3 turns my horrors did unspeakable things to his Saurus and eventually broke the unit. My grave guard in the centre hit the Saurus, he tried to shut down my magic for a phase after I rolled high winds, using a dispel scroll on my vanhels and cube of darkness on a big invocation, sadly he rolled a 1 on the cube, invocation proc'd the corpse cart which was positioned to buff the ghouls, horrors and grave guard+vamp. The result was a brutal combat phase that saw the grave guard/vamp killed most of the temple guard unit, the horrors tear chunks out of the Saurus and the ghouls thoroughly beat the Saurus they fought. All 3 combats ground down to piles of dead lizardmen facing hordes of resurrected undead, one scar veteran facing down 25 ghouls, the slann fighting a full unit of 30 grave guard, challenging a combat focused vamp while my black Knights rampaged through his back lines.

On the left flank his kroxigors failed to get through my skellies while slowly taking wounds, the coach crashed through the skinks before hitting and killing the salamander. We decided to play on to see how the slann would fare in his challenge which ended in a tabling.
   
Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Your game 1 list is a breath of fresh (chill?) air, very different.

If you keep it mixed up you keep t new and hard to predict and counter.

n'oublie jamais

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Great games overall! Love the lists and they seemed like fun games!

LiveWaaaaagh.com 
   
 
Forum Index » Warhammer Fantasy Battle Legacy Discussion
Go to: