Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well, it looks like folks are getting the Battletome left and right so I figure we should start a discussion on how to begin equipping your Overlords!

First I will go with Arkanaught Company!

So, the first choice will overall be your Company Captain's ranged weapon. He gets the choice of the Volleygun or the Flareshot pistols.
-Volleypistol: 3 attacks instead of 2.
-Flareshot Pistol: Attacks hit on a 4+ instead of a 5+

Personally, I am going to go with the Flareshot because of that extra chance to hit.

Now for the company itself! We have the three specialist weapons:

-Skypike: Melee weapon which has 2 attacks compared to the 1 for the cutters and has D3 damage along with -1 rend. I am leaning towards this on the grounds that most of my companies will be disembarking and holding positions so the likely hood they are going to get into combat is very likely and the Skypike may help.

-Light Skyhook: The ranged version of the Skypike, except 1 attack instead of 2 and a slightly better chance of wounding. It has very long range so if you are playing on a large board or on the defensive or your Company is ground-pounding then this will likely be the first thing you get to use.

-Athermatic Volley Gun: Whopping 6 attacks with 5 and 4 to hit and would with -1 rend. Get three of these together and you are throwing down just 18 dice for all three combined.

Thoughts: You can go the Generalist-route and take each of one or you can go the Specialist route and have each Company take just one of each to fill their 3 man slot (you are going have to take 3 companies for Battleline anyway).

It really depends on how you will be using the Arkanaught company ultimately I believe. Will they be heading straight into the fight or will you be maneuvering them off to the side.

If you say went Barak-Zilfin and used their ability to drop-vessel a Frigate onto the Battlefield you could see that unit disembark and use all three volley guns to tear into an enemy unit potentially -high gamble, high gain-.

If you knew a unit was going to get charged you would want them to take skypikes, and if they are going to sit off to the side then take the Skyhook.

Though ultimately you do not want your Arkanaught Company to get into combat. They will go squish. So, with some skillful maneuvering of embarking/disembarking with your Frigates you could likely get a best bet out of 2 Aethermatic Volley Guns and 1 Light Sky Hook for your Arkanaught Companies riding around in Frigates. If they are holding an objective early on and are properly screened I would go with 2-3 Light Skyhooks instead.

Played a game with my new Kharadron (I had two units of Arkanaut Company) today and here's what I can say for each type of weapon:

Skypike- This is what you want if you're going to accompany your Admiral, if you had three of them in a squad it'd add a nice kick to an otherwise squishy unit.

Skyhook- If you're not going to deploy your Arkanauts by airship, then this is the weapon for you. Sit back and plink away from your deployment zone

Aethermatic Volley Gun- Shotsshotsshotsshotsshots, definitely your midfield weapon as Cataphract said.

For unit size I think the ten is good, unless you plan to forgo a Frigate transport, then maybe more men will give you staying power for holding objectives.

Surprised there isnt more tactics being discussed on here with the release. I can tell you right now that 10 thunderers in a frigate plus a khemist to give them +1 attack on their ranged weapon sounds awesome.

Thinking of running 2 full load outs like this. One with aethercannons and one with fumigators.

Your looking at 20 aethercannon shots that are 4+/2+ with -2 rend and D3 damage, ouch!

The fumigators are looking 10xD3+1 attacks that are 3+/2+ with -1 rend. Hopefully that lays down some hurt when they disembark.

Trying to figure out the best way to take the Company, if you do 3 squads of 10 plus a frigate transport its too many points if you want to include the above combo. Thinking maybe 1 squad in a frigate and 2 that hoof it to objectives.

I am also not convinced the Overlord is worth the points. Will need to playtest him to figure out. An admiral seems like a cheaper and better choice, plus better command ability.

I'm waiting on seeing if they faq the aether khemist before I dive in hard. I've got a nasty ideal with thunders and a 40 man company unit but it's going to depend on whether they make make bonus stacking illegal or not. I hope they don't but it's possible and if so I think they drop from having at least one top tier build to being middling tier (and by top tier i mean compete with sylvaneth, stormcast, skaven, and tzeentch) that can compete but might have trouble at the top end.

Is there any real point to taking Skywardens besides for the formation? Endrinriggers are basically exactly the same except with better basic weapons and the ability to repair, and the mines the Skywardens get don't seem powerful enough to compensate for that.

I'm aware of the 20pt difference but am not convinced that's a big enough difference to make Skywardens have a niche...

That said I'm still building a force with 40 or so company, 2 frigates, an ironclad, at least 1 aether khemist, 3 boxes of ballon infantry, and 10-20 thunderers. The ruling just affect the remaining 25% of my purchases.

 Hulksmash wrote:
I'm waiting on seeing if they faq the aether khemist before I dive in hard. I've got a nasty ideal with thunders and a 40 man company unit but it's going to depend on whether they make make bonus stacking illegal or not. I hope they don't but it's possible and if so I think they drop from having at least one top tier build to being middling tier (and by top tier i mean compete with sylvaneth, stormcast, skaven, and tzeentch) that can compete but might have trouble at the top end.

You mean using 2 Khemist to stack their ability on the same unit? You would be able to doubly do so if you take Market City.. as their khemist can pick 2 units.

That sounds like oversight/cheese overload. But the -1 rend seemed to always be able to stack for the runepriest for dispossessed... so maybe..?

Yeah, the british guys (the ones I think work on the GHB) seem to go the route of bonuses stack but Reece who has been heavily involved in the 8th ed stuff (similar to the UK guys on the GHB for AOS) seems to feel they'll get adjusted or that the new GHB won't allow stacks from the same named ability. So we'll have to see.

And yeah, the market city is the one I was consider. The core being a 40 man company with 12 skyhooks and a 20 man mortar unit and 3 khemists. The rest is some flying ships and 2x10 company units to go in them.

Rihgu wrote:
Is there any real point to taking Skywardens besides for the formation? Endrinriggers are basically exactly the same except with better basic weapons and the ability to repair, and the mines the Skywardens get don't seem powerful enough to compensate for that.

I'm aware of the 20pt difference but am not convinced that's a big enough difference to make Skywardens have a niche...

I feel your assessment is correct, the skywardens are inferior to endrinriggers at the current points values.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cataphract wrote:
Well, it looks like folks are getting the Battletome left and right so I figure we should start a discussion on how to begin equipping your Overlords!

First I will go with Arkanaught Company!

Spoiler:

So, the first choice will overall be your Company Captain's ranged weapon. He gets the choice of the Volleygun or the Flareshot pistols.
-Volleypistol: 3 attacks instead of 2.
-Flareshot Pistol: Attacks hit on a 4+ instead of a 5+

Personally, I am going to go with the Flareshot because of that extra chance to hit.

Now for the company itself! We have the three specialist weapons:

-Skypike: Melee weapon which has 2 attacks compared to the 1 for the cutters and has D3 damage along with -1 rend. I am leaning towards this on the grounds that most of my companies will be disembarking and holding positions so the likely hood they are going to get into combat is very likely and the Skypike may help.

-Light Skyhook: The ranged version of the Skypike, except 1 attack instead of 2 and a slightly better chance of wounding. It has very long range so if you are playing on a large board or on the defensive or your Company is ground-pounding then this will likely be the first thing you get to use.

-Athermatic Volley Gun: Whopping 6 attacks with 5 and 4 to hit and would with -1 rend. Get three of these together and you are throwing down just 18 dice for all three combined.

Thoughts: You can go the Generalist-route and take each of one or you can go the Specialist route and have each Company take just one of each to fill their 3 man slot (you are going have to take 3 companies for Battleline anyway).

It really depends on how you will be using the Arkanaught company ultimately I believe. Will they be heading straight into the fight or will you be maneuvering them off to the side.

If you say went Barak-Zilfin and used their ability to drop-vessel a Frigate onto the Battlefield you could see that unit disembark and use all three volley guns to tear into an enemy unit potentially -high gamble, high gain-.

If you knew a unit was going to get charged you would want them to take skypikes, and if they are going to sit off to the side then take the Skyhook.

Though ultimately you do not want your Arkanaught Company to get into combat. They will go squish. So, with some skillful maneuvering of embarking/disembarking with your Frigates you could likely get a best bet out of 2 Aethermatic Volley Guns and 1 Light Sky Hook for your Arkanaught Companies riding around in Frigates. If they are holding an objective early on and are properly screened I would go with 2-3 Light Skyhooks instead.

The weapon choice for the unit leader is a no-brainer; the volley pistol is better statistically and means you don't have to roll his dice separately from the rest of the unit. As for the special weapon, IMO the volley gun is the inferior option. It gives a bunch of relatively poor ranged attacks, which is what the unit already does in abundance. Yes it's rend -1, but you're going to be getting plenty of rend -1 shots off your frigates/ironclads anyway. The skyhook is a better option for a ranged loadout, while the skypike is the obvious choice for a melee loadout.



In regards to Kharadrons overall, I'd say that one Ironclad is a very good buy though not quite into auto-take range. It's a powerful model to start with but what pushes it over the edge is the Flagship rule to hand out a buff to any visible skyvessels (read: all the ships in your army).

Another random tip; at 2000 points you are limited to four Gunhaulers since they are classed as artillery.

Any thoughts on the formations in the book?

I'm leaning towards Zilfin; the alpha strike is too tempting:

Aetherspheric Endrins = Deepstrike Ironclad t1 with 10 Arkanauts, 10 Thunderers, Chemist and 3 Endrinriggers.

There's Always a Wind If You Look For It = Double move a Frigate with more Arkanauts.

Admiral + Don't Argue With The Wind = Move + Autorun 6" + Shoot with another Frigate.

Iron Sky Squadron + Flagship = Add 1 to all missile attacks on Skyvessels t1, and reroll 1s when shooting

So Turn 1 I have my entire army in your face, shooting and charging. Prettttty good. I think a Thunderer gunline with chemists from the market city will be strong as well but not as fun, imho.

 Sledgio wrote:
Any thoughts on the formations in the book?

I think the Aetherstrike Force would bet be paired with Sky-ports that want to get into combat. I.E. Zon which has all abilities that favor combat. The Aetherstrike Force let's you take Prosecutors with Hammers and the rules allow your few ranged units to really put on the hurt as you will want your Companies to carry Skypikes to give them that edge in a combat.

 Sledgio wrote:
Any thoughts on the formations in the book?

They're solid and actually costed pretty well in points. Take em if you want em but don't feel obligated.

The formations seemed a little lackluster in my opinion. If it wasn't for the fact that you get an extra endrinwork AND an extra artifact for each formation I'm not sure they'd be worth the 80 points.

That being said I don't see myself ever not taking an iron sky squadron.

 Sledgio wrote:
Any thoughts on the formations in the book?

Also the Aetherstrike Force and the Grundstock Escort Wing are the same price if you use Hammer Prosecutors. They both seem to fill different rolls. The Escort Wing definitely has a more Sit-Back-And-Fire feel to it, I feel the Skywardens are only included as a escort option for the Gunhaulers. The Aetherstrike Force seems more rounded out but favors up close and personal action. Perhaps best used as a Midrange Force to keep the opponent away from your more squishy units and skyvessels.

Cauthon wrote:
The formations seemed a little lackluster in my opinion. If it wasn't for the fact that you get an extra endrinwork AND an extra artifact for each formation I'm not sure they'd be worth the 80 points.

That being said I don't see myself ever not taking an iron sky squadron.

Well yeah, if you take away one of the main benefits then something isn't worth as much. If any battalion is worth using without it giving an extra artifact then it probably needs a points increase.

Rihgu wrote:
Is there any real point to taking Skywardens besides for the formation? Endrinriggers are basically exactly the same except with better basic weapons and the ability to repair, and the mines the Skywardens get don't seem powerful enough to compensate for that.

I'm aware of the 20pt difference but am not convinced that's a big enough difference to make Skywardens have a niche...

I think you are pretty much right, especially since Endrinriggers get better To Hit, To Wound, and Rend (-2) for their close combat attacks to make up for having only 1 attack to the 2 attacks base for the Skywardens.

That said, I do think Skywardens do get one slight advantage, in that their Skypikes have a 2" range, compared to the 1" range of Endrinrigger's weapons... if you are going with a large unit (say 7+ models in a squad), then I think the Skywardens might be a better option, since they can get more (perhaps ALL) of their squad members to attack, while the Endrinriggers might struggle to do this (and so waste a lot of close combat potential). Other than that, I agree, it is probably better to pay the extra 20 points for per 3 models for the Endrinriggers.

For most other armies isn't the extra artifact a minor benefit compared to the actual special rules your paying for?

Someone was asking about the formations and in my opinion if you don't know exactly what you want as far as your extra endeinwork and artifact you can probably just skip the formations.

Whereas it's not a crucial for say lizardmen to get good mileage out of their bonus artifact.

MRC wrote:

Rihgu wrote:
Is there any real point to taking Skywardens besides for the formation? Endrinriggers are basically exactly the same except with better basic weapons and the ability to repair, and the mines the Skywardens get don't seem powerful enough to compensate for that.

I'm aware of the 20pt difference but am not convinced that's a big enough difference to make Skywardens have a niche...

I think you are pretty much right, especially since Endrinriggers get better To Hit, To Wound, and Rend (-2) for their close combat attacks to make up for having only 1 attack to the 2 attacks base for the Skywardens.

That said, I do think Skywardens do get one slight advantage, in that their Skypikes have a 2" range, compared to the 1" range of Endrinrigger's weapons... if you are going with a large unit (say 7+ models in a squad), then I think the Skywardens might be a better option, since they can get more (perhaps ALL) of their squad members to attack, while the Endrinriggers might struggle to do this (and so waste a lot of close combat potential). Other than that, I agree, it is probably better to pay the extra 20 points for per 3 models for the Endrinriggers.

I would completely agree if it weren't for putting the special weapon guys in the back since their gun butt melee attacks suck anyway.

Why would you want a big unit of endrinriggers or skywardens though?

Each unit of endrinriggers gets to take a wound off a sky ship and each unit of wardens gets their own timed charges.

Only reason I could see to take a big unit is for one key roll on a grapple. Maybe in an assault list with Brokk..?

I'm not sure why anyone would take skywardens right now. Maybe after / if they do grott riggers or other flying factions. Even then though...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Timed charges should go off on a 3+ and backfire on a 1 or something. Same with the mines.

Skywarden kinda just suck lol.

Cauthon wrote:
Why would you want a big unit of endrinriggers or skywardens though?

Each unit of endrinriggers gets to take a wound off a sky ship and each unit of wardens gets their own timed charges.

Only reason I could see to take a big unit is for one key roll on a grapple. Maybe in an assault list with Brokk..?

I'm not sure why anyone would take skywardens right now. Maybe after / if they do grott riggers or other flying factions. Even then though...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Timed charges should go off on a 3+ and backfire on a 1 or something. Same with the mines.

Skywarden kinda just suck lol.

The Khemist buff is unit wide, and extremely strong on the endrinriggers' melee weapon.

No fans of the Aethermatic Volley Gun?

Cataphract wrote:
No fans of the Aethermatic Volley Gun?

Even if you take 3 per squad and you pump out 18 shots, your still hitting on 5's. So 6 hit, then 3 wound. Its not "bad" per se, but to me the light skyhook seems to be the more versatile option as it has longer range and can do D3 wounds on -2 rend if it gets through.

If you ever get a chance to spare a khemist buff on them then your looking at the potential to put some hurt on a unit or big baddy. I would never dedicate a khemist to just that job but if you take market city and they get to buff 2 units then it could come into play.

One other quick point on the Aethermatic Volley Guns is you get +1 to hit against HEROES and MONSTERS. So choosing the appropriate target would up your To Hit...but I still wouldn't bank much on them

What are opinions on the most competitive sky port? I'm new to sigmar but a deep striking Ironclad with 10-20 Thunderers a chemist or two and about a dozen Endrinriggers sounds like a great alpha strike. So I'm going Zilfin.

But I can see Thunderer mortar gun lines with Urbaz chemists as pretty devastating. Reecius seems to think Mhornar is the best, though if true that seems less obvious to me. He must have a deeper insight into the rules than I do (easily believable).

Mhornar and Zilfin definitely look like the two I can see myself taking.

Quick question on these - do you pick which skyport as a part of list building or at the start of a battle, i.e. if you have a list that can work with 2 different styles of tactics can you pick which skyport and artycles etc. before different battle? Is this seen as being as bad as list tailoring or is it just a part of the game?

 The Shrike wrote:
What are opinions on the most competitive sky port? I'm new to sigmar but a deep striking Ironclad with 10-20 Thunderers a chemist or two and about a dozen Endrinriggers sounds like a great alpha strike. So I'm going Zilfin.

But I can see Thunderer mortar gun lines with Urbaz chemists as pretty devastating. Reecius seems to think Mhornar is the best, though if true that seems less obvious to me. He must have a deeper insight into the rules than I do (easily believable).

Urbaz for the khemists, Mournar for the command trait. I'd say these are the best two, but none of them are bad nor is going with a custom variation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sledgio wrote:
Mhornar and Zilfin definitely look like the two I can see myself taking.

Quick question on these - do you pick which skyport as a part of list building or at the start of a battle, i.e. if you have a list that can work with 2 different styles of tactics can you pick which skyport and artycles etc. before different battle? Is this seen as being as bad as list tailoring or is it just a part of the game?

Like command traits and artifacts this would be part of the list. Changing it just before a battle would be list tailoring.

For the Urbaz hopefuls out there, are you all going gun line? I chose Zilfin for the mobility. Unless you're just spamming mortars, i can't see normal speed frigates/ironclads getting there quick enough to spill out and take advantage of the chemists before you get blown off the table. But I'm 100% theoryhammer; I haven't played a single game of sigmar.

My urbanz list loops like;

2 frigates (or 1 ironclad)
20 mortar thunderers
3 khemist
2x10 company w/3 volley gus
40 company w/12 skyhook

And some assorted stuff.

So are you figuring on have your mortars and big unit of arkanauts in the back with the 3 khemists stacking buffs on both units?

Seems pretty brutal. Only problem will be getting your hands on 20 mortar bits lol.

Word on the street (reecius) is that in the next generals handbook you won't be able to stack multiples of the same buff on a unit.