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So for some reason I'm wanting to look into starting a IG army. I'm thinking of hurting myself by getting some DKoK from Forge World but here is the thing. How many infantry models do I need for most 1850 games? I'm just curious as since they are so costly I want to maximize my value for what I spend.

So give me some ideas etc.

*PS* I'm aware that 8th is coming very soon, but I'm curious overall and not a particular list etc.

Thanks!

Lots.

Even if you have 2/3 of your points in tanks you can quite easily have 80+ Infantry (with upgrades)

Every platoon should have between 3 to 5 squads and you should have 2 or 3 platoons. That's 65 to 165 plus the CCS. Or you can make an armor heavy army, 2 or 3 squads of vets and lots of chrimera and LRBT thats 20 to 30 plus the CCS. Either way, put some wyverns or manticores in there to give your army some punching power.

MitchellTyner wrote:
So for some reason I'm wanting to look into starting a IG army. I'm thinking of hurting myself by getting some DKoK from Forge World but here is the thing. How many infantry models do I need for most 1850 games? I'm just curious as since they are so costly I want to maximize my value for what I spend.

So give me some ideas etc.

*PS* I'm aware that 8th is coming very soon, but I'm curious overall and not a particular list etc.

Thanks!

Depends on the kind of army you want to build. If you want to build an IA12 DKoK Assault Brigade, at 2kpts you can easily build an army with say, 3 squads of Grenadiers and a command squad and fill the rest out with tanks and artillery. Not sure how it'll play in 8E, but that's an option.

You could do much the same with something like Carapace vets. My last 2k codex IG list had a grand total of 50 infantry in 2k and 2 CAD's, about as many as most SM armies, but had 18 vehicles (6 chimeras, 3 wyverns, 3 Russ tanks, and 6 Lascannon sentinels).

If you want to run an infantry list, I'd say expect 75-130 depending on how you want to build and run it, probably average 80-90 I'd guess.

So I guess what would be better? Tanks and mobile infantry squads in chimeras, or bigger squads and mostly infantry? I guess I was looking at the big kit you can get from forgeworld where it has the 4 x 10 man groups, the command squad, a weapon sprew, and 6 heavy weapon teams, 3 autocannon and 3 lazcannons.

If I need 80-90 on average I guess I'd need two of these 400 dollar bundles.... ouch.

Depends on your play style and what you like most about the lore. And what 8th edition does. That's why so many of us play guard, for all the crap they get they are a really versatile army. I've had good luck with a gun line and artillery supported by vets in valks; I know a guy who ran straight infantry, combined them all into a single squad with a priest and a commissar and just rolled over everything. Some times I run just two squads of vets with a Tank commander and three squads of LRBT, that's 12 tanks. You can do what ever you want with the guard, and what works for one guy may not work for another.

I gave up on the idea of FW DKOK. Just too much money. You can buy the same type of platoon of Cadians with a standard retail discount for $185 vs $400 for FW DKOK. I've just been buying Cadians and different heads and such from Mad Robot minis to customize them. If you don't have to have GW or FW, other companies are much more affordable than Forgeworld. I'm planning on running 150 or so models of infantry of one type or another. The cost just gets insane with FW. They look awesome, though.

crimsondave wrote:
I gave up on the idea of FW DKOK. Just too much money. You can buy the same type of platoon of Cadians with a standard retail discount for $185 vs $400 for FW DKOK. I've just been buying Cadians and different heads and such from Mad Robot minis to customize them. If you don't have to have GW or FW, other companies are much more affordable than Forgeworld. I'm planning on running 150 or so models of infantry of one type or another. The cost just gets insane with FW. They look awesome, though.

It's almost enough to make me look at the china forger .... DKOK just look so durn good. The flectarn Storm trooper paint job I've seen a couple times looks so damn awesome it hurts.

MitchellTyner wrote:

crimsondave wrote:
I gave up on the idea of FW DKOK. Just too much money. You can buy the same type of platoon of Cadians with a standard retail discount for $185 vs $400 for FW DKOK. I've just been buying Cadians and different heads and such from Mad Robot minis to customize them. If you don't have to have GW or FW, other companies are much more affordable than Forgeworld. I'm planning on running 150 or so models of infantry of one type or another. The cost just gets insane with FW. They look awesome, though.

It's almost enough to make me look at the china forger .... DKOK just look so durn good. The flectarn Storm trooper paint job I've seen a couple times looks so damn awesome it hurts.

"The" forger? You make it sound as if there is only one (good one)...?

Guard force organization is very flexible due to the plethora of options available to us. If you don't limit yourself to the DKOK detachments you can run a battle forged 1850 list with 0 infantry models and all tanks if you like. Don't try and build a power list with the Guard, it isn't going to work, at least in 7th. Instead first determine the theme of the force you want to play (Mechanized infantry? Human waves? Artillery? Drop Troops? Combined Arms?) and then go about optimizing your list while staying true to your theme.

wait until the new edition releases

krazynadechukr wrote:
wait until the new edition releases

Seconded;

It's entirely possible that basic Gmen will drop a point per model, which increases what you have to spend for an all infantry army by another $400.

If you just CANT WAIT. then I suggest you consider investing in heavy weapons teams, because they'll always be relevant.

Check out Valiant Miniatures, they make posable "heroic" oversized 20mm that should scale pretty well against Marines, Orks etc. Insanely cheap compared to FW and look good quality too

jeff white wrote:

MitchellTyner wrote:

crimsondave wrote:
I gave up on the idea of FW DKOK. Just too much money. You can buy the same type of platoon of Cadians with a standard retail discount for $185 vs $400 for FW DKOK. I've just been buying Cadians and different heads and such from Mad Robot minis to customize them. If you don't have to have GW or FW, other companies are much more affordable than Forgeworld. I'm planning on running 150 or so models of infantry of one type or another. The cost just gets insane with FW. They look awesome, though.

It's almost enough to make me look at the china forger .... DKOK just look so durn good. The flectarn Storm trooper paint job I've seen a couple times looks so damn awesome it hurts.

"The" forger? You make it sound as if there is only one (good one)...?

Naw, I just call all the ebay china forgers "the China forger" , had some that was crap and some that was honestly just as good in my opinion. Rather have real stuff though to be honest.

Otto von Bludd wrote:Guard force organization is very flexible due to the plethora of options available to us. If you don't limit yourself to the DKOK detachments you can run a battle forged 1850 list with 0 infantry models and all tanks if you like. Don't try and build a power list with the Guard, it isn't going to work, at least in 7th. Instead first determine the theme of the force you want to play (Mechanized infantry? Human waves? Artillery? Drop Troops? Combined Arms?) and then go about optimizing your list while staying true to your theme.

I'm not even going to run them as DKoK, but as regular guard. In my mind, they are what IG should look like in the 41st. So I just love the models.

krazynadechukr wrote:wait until the new edition releases

I'm planning on waiting till 8th comes out, I'm just looking for general overview of what people think when it comes to this. I also have about 10% experience with guard armies and that's when I run my chaos marines against them. So I've never actually gotten my hands into the guard.

malamis wrote:

krazynadechukr wrote:
wait until the new edition releases

Seconded;

It's entirely possible that basic Gmen will drop a point per model, which increases what you have to spend for an all infantry army by another $400.

If you just CANT WAIT. then I suggest you consider investing in heavy weapons teams, because they'll always be relevant.

Yeah I was thinking something similar, but what scares me is that there are quite a few pieces of DKoK on the forgeworld site that say "No Longer Available" which makes me wonder if they are retiring the army???

MitchellTyner wrote:

Otto von Bludd wrote:Guard force organization is very flexible due to the plethora of options available to us. If you don't limit yourself to the DKOK detachments you can run a battle forged 1850 list with 0 infantry models and all tanks if you like. Don't try and build a power list with the Guard, it isn't going to work, at least in 7th. Instead first determine the theme of the force you want to play (Mechanized infantry? Human waves? Artillery? Drop Troops? Combined Arms?) and then go about optimizing your list while staying true to your theme.

I'm not even going to run them as DKoK, but as regular guard. In my mind, they are what IG should look like in the 41st. So I just love the models.

krazynadechukr wrote:wait until the new edition releases

I'm planning on waiting till 8th comes out, I'm just looking for general overview of what people think when it comes to this. I also have about 10% experience with guard armies and that's when I run my chaos marines against them. So I've never actually gotten my hands into the guard.

I might be the only person in existence who likes the Elysians better than the DKoK. I dislike the gas-masked look they've got. I prefer my troopers to have visible faces, and models that don't have helmets in general. I do really like the split-trail lascannons and heavy guns, though.

But, with regards to starting Imperial Guard, if you're going for an infantry horde, you'll need at least 200 models. And a lot of special and heavy weapons.

If you're going for heavy mech, you'll need mostly tanks, and can get by with maybe 50 guys. I use about 70 or so normally, and run a fairly mechanized list when I'm not running ABG.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

MitchellTyner wrote:

Otto von Bludd wrote:Guard force organization is very flexible due to the plethora of options available to us. If you don't limit yourself to the DKOK detachments you can run a battle forged 1850 list with 0 infantry models and all tanks if you like. Don't try and build a power list with the Guard, it isn't going to work, at least in 7th. Instead first determine the theme of the force you want to play (Mechanized infantry? Human waves? Artillery? Drop Troops? Combined Arms?) and then go about optimizing your list while staying true to your theme.

I'm not even going to run them as DKoK, but as regular guard. In my mind, they are what IG should look like in the 41st. So I just love the models.

krazynadechukr wrote:wait until the new edition releases

I'm planning on waiting till 8th comes out, I'm just looking for general overview of what people think when it comes to this. I also have about 10% experience with guard armies and that's when I run my chaos marines against them. So I've never actually gotten my hands into the guard.

I might be the only person in existence who likes the Elysians better than the DKoK. I dislike the gas-masked look they've got. I prefer my troopers to have visible faces, and models that don't have helmets in general. I do really like the split-trail lascannons and heavy guns, though.

But, with regards to starting Imperial Guard, if you're going for an infantry horde, you'll need at least 200 models. And a lot of special and heavy weapons.

If you're going for heavy mech, you'll need mostly tanks, and can get by with maybe 50 guys. I use about 70 or so normally, and run a fairly mechanized list when I'm not running ABG.

I want to run some tanks, but also have an infantry element to my army as well. Not sure if I want a glob of infantry or multiple smaller groups running around in Chimeras

I'd say wait until 8th edition, as I am for my next Guard list. Can't be quite sure how Guard'll fair after the codex, who knows wyverns may bceome terrible and deathstrikes are the best unit.

As for how many models 7th edition has 1 platoon probably costs around the range of 250 (60 per squad x 3 squads plus 30 for the commander and then some for other special weapons and such) points with upgrades, at least, and thats for 35-40 models. So for 1850 givining 850 points for about 4-5 tanks thats upwards of 160ish models.

Of course if you go with vets and mechanised or airborne (in which you have to use formations to get more valks) it'll be quite a lot less. Or if you go mostly armoured etc. so only use this as a line infantry with armoured support sort of army.

MitchellTyner wrote:


I want to run some tanks, but also have an infantry element to my army as well. Not sure if I want a glob of infantry or multiple smaller groups running around in Chimeras

If you want a reference, here's one of my lists [all comers]. It works sort of okay, and is obviously biased towards my meta and the things I hate. It's got some tanks and it's got some guys.

My 7e Gunline:

CAD: Codex
Lord Commissar
Platoon, 50 man, 5 Lascannons, 5 Plasmaguns
Vets, 3 Plasmaguns
Shadowsword
ADL+Quad Gun

Formation Detach: Codex, Emperor's Wrath
CCS
Manticore
Wyvern
Basilisk

Allied Detach: ABG
Leman Russ TC + Beast Hunter
Leman Russ Battle Tank

Inq Detach:
Coteaz

I'm thinking of dropping the 50-man block for smaller squads and putting the guns back into HWTs instead of the big combined squad. I have to deal with deep-striking suits and riptides and carnifexes a lot, but if that's not a problem for you, then it would almost certainly be better to split up the big blob.

Thanks! I just have a hard time justifying the big price on too much infantry.

MitchellTyner wrote:
Thanks! I just have a hard time justifying the big price on too much infantry.

Keep in mind, if you're using my list as a pattern, that it works in my meta, and may not work in yours.

Also, keep in mind the 8th Ed changes may force some alterations to it, as well.

I play Kreig myself and my 2000 point army has about 100 infantry and about 50 crewmen for artillery. As for forgeworld discontinuing the line I asked them that very question about 2 weeks ago. The response they gave me was the units they're discontinuing are the ones that aren't selling well. However they're still going to support the line so the DKoK isn't going anywhere anytime soon. As for the units that are being discontinued they'll still keep 1 option available. So instead of having 3 different mortars or 3 different heavy bolters they'll just have 1 available.
On another note they also said that the grenadiers and the heavy gorgon transport which are currently on backorder are having there molds fixed. So those are going to be available again soon. I'd also recommend staying away from the Chinese knock offs. The ones I've seen are of substandard quality. Besides if you're going to go Kreig you've gotta be willing to pony up the extra money.

I would probably buy like 6 Start Collecting Imperial Guard

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

MitchellTyner wrote:
Thanks! I just have a hard time justifying the big price on too much infantry.

Keep in mind, if you're using my list as a pattern, that it works in my meta, and may not work in yours.

Also, keep in mind the 8th Ed changes may force some alterations to it, as well.

Thanks, yeah I'm waiting for 8th before I make any decisions on purchasing, but I'm trying to figure out what I want to do etc before it comes out. What i'm playing most right now in my group is tau, IG, chaos space marines, and the occasional necrons, eldar, and I.Knight cheese. So it's all over the place.

Sensual_T_Rex wrote:I play Kreig myself and my 2000 point army has about 100 infantry and about 50 crewmen for artillery. As for forgeworld discontinuing the line I asked them that very question about 2 weeks ago. The response they gave me was the units they're discontinuing are the ones that aren't selling well. However they're still going to support the line so the DKoK isn't going anywhere anytime soon. As for the units that are being discontinued they'll still keep 1 option available. So instead of having 3 different mortars or 3 different heavy bolters they'll just have 1 available.
On another note they also said that the grenadiers and the heavy gorgon transport which are currently on backorder are having there molds fixed. So those are going to be available again soon. I'd also recommend staying away from the Chinese knock offs. The ones I've seen are of substandard quality. Besides if you're going to go Kreig you've gotta be willing to pony up the extra money.

Man you get an upvote for that awesome bit of information! It's sad that they are discontinuing 2 out of the 3 sculpts of the heavy teams and some of the turrets for the tanks, but yeah that's a better thing than them axing DKOK. So I take it that you play heavy artillery? can you give me an idea of how your list works etc? thanks.

Talamare wrote:I would probably buy like 6 Start Collecting Imperial Guard

If I was going with cadian guard then I would in a heart beat. But alas I'm all about the looks of the DKoK. I also liked the looks of the steel legion but I just don't know how I feel about metal minis. I like having an easier time working with them. Though if something strange happens and before I start working on it, they come out with plastic Steel legion, then I'll have to seriously look into it.

I've always wanted to do mechanized IG with lots of chimeras and hellhounds and stuff, but I just don't have the heart to paint so many models. Or the money, but the heart too XD

MitchellTyner wrote:
So for some reason I'm wanting to look into starting a IG army. I'm thinking of hurting myself by getting some DKoK from Forge World but here is the thing. How many infantry models do I need for most 1850 games?

If you're just starting with 8E looming, I'd look to play at the 1,000 pt level and expand from there. 50-ish Guardsmen is a good start on an army:
1x CCS [5]
1x PCS [5]
- Infantry Squad [10]
- Infantry Squad [10]
- Special Weapons [6]
- Heavy Weapons [6]
1x Veterans [10]

See? That's 52 Guardsmen right there, and we've barely gotten you on the board! You'll want to add a Valkyrie or two, along with 2 or 3 Chimeras.

So let me ask you guys this. I'm looking at the tanks, and I'm wanting to know, which tank do I need to get for the Conqueror variant?

Granted I know things will change with 8th but I see that the DKoK is special with this tank because it's a "fast" vehicle but all the tanks I've seen do not have the gun shown from my google search on the tank.

Ideas?

MitchellTyner wrote:
So let me ask you guys this. I'm looking at the tanks, and I'm wanting to know, which tank do I need to get for the Conqueror variant?

Granted I know things will change with 8th but I see that the DKoK is special with this tank because it's a "fast" vehicle but all the tanks I've seen do not have the gun shown from my google search on the tank.

Ideas?

Don't.

I haven't seen the Conqueror in a long time, but I remember it's gun being distinctly inferior to the Battle Cannon. Leman Russes right now can move and shoot anyway, and with 72" of range you don't need to be fast.

With regards to making a LR Conqueror, I might try building the regular tank kit and using a roll of plasticard or a piece of piping to make a shortish barrel after the fume extractor, without the baffled muzzle brake.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

MitchellTyner wrote:
So let me ask you guys this. I'm looking at the tanks, and I'm wanting to know, which tank do I need to get for the Conqueror variant?

Granted I know things will change with 8th but I see that the DKoK is special with this tank because it's a "fast" vehicle but all the tanks I've seen do not have the gun shown from my google search on the tank.

Ideas?

Don't.

I haven't seen the Conqueror in a long time, but I remember it's gun being distinctly inferior to the Battle Cannon. Leman Russes right now can move and shoot anyway, and with 72" of range you don't need to be fast.

With regards to making a LR Conqueror, I might try building the regular tank kit and using a roll of plasticard or a piece of piping to make a shortish barrel after the fume extractor, without the baffled muzzle brake.

Yeah the nice thing it seems about the tank is that it's a fast vehicle so it can move 12" and still shoot multiple weapons at full ballistic skill. Plus it's 115 points base in the DKoK forgeworld book. So cheap as chips but without ordinance so the armor pin is down. How it will end up after 8th is anyone's guess.

Honestly when it comes to looks the DKoK vanquisher model looks soooo much better with it's really long barrel.

MitchellTyner wrote:
Honestly when it comes to looks the DKoK vanquisher model looks soooo much better with it's really long barrel.

Honestly, I pretty much collect DKoK for the sexy as all hell Vanquisher model. I'm collecting DKoK myself, in preparation for 8th, seeing as Guard have possibly been given a bit of a buff from the rules GW have been mentioning (speculation obviously, as stats might be getting changed. Still, those models though).
They might be upping point costs of most things in the game, like they did for AoS, so it's hard to say how many guard would be in an army. Using tanks means you'll have considerably less infantry. If you want to buy some now, I'd suggest just getting some models here and there that you like the look of to build and paint, to sate your apatite. That's what I'm doing. The Vanquisher kit is next on my to buy list after I've finished painting the small collection of horse riders and infantry I have.

MitchellTyner wrote:

Sensual_T_Rex wrote:I play Kreig myself and my 2000 point army has about 100 infantry and about 50 crewmen for artillery. As for forgeworld discontinuing the line I asked them that very question about 2 weeks ago. The response they gave me was the units they're discontinuing are the ones that aren't selling well. However they're still going to support the line so the DKoK isn't going anywhere anytime soon. As for the units that are being discontinued they'll still keep 1 option available. So instead of having 3 different mortars or 3 different heavy bolters they'll just have 1 available.
On another note they also said that the grenadiers and the heavy gorgon transport which are currently on backorder are having there molds fixed. So those are going to be available again soon. I'd also recommend staying away from the Chinese knock offs. The ones I've seen are of substandard quality. Besides if you're going to go Kreig you've gotta be willing to pony up the extra money.

Man you get an upvote for that awesome bit of information! It's sad that they are discontinuing 2 out of the 3 sculpts of the heavy teams and some of the turrets for the tanks, but yeah that's a better thing than them axing DKOK. So I take it that you play heavy artillery? can you give me an idea of how your list works etc? thanks.

Well basically how I run my army is defensively. I'll have 2 earth shaker cannons in the back with a DKoK commander behind a agis defense wall. The commander will use the bring it down order to help the earth shakers blow up whatever big bad my opponent has. Then I'll have 3 imperial mortars who go for weak infantry blobs, while my 3 quad launchers go for tougher infantry like terminators. All the artillery have full crews in order to keep the guns blazing and in case they get charged they can actually hold there own a bit.
Then I use 2 units of infantry consisting of 1 command group and 4 squads of 10 men. I keep them bare bones with no upgrades. These guys only have one mission and that's to keep my opponent away from my artillery. If they manage to kill anything or grab an object that's just a bonus. But really there purpose is to hold up the enemy and die while my artillery blows everything up.
Last I have 2 demolisher tanks that I either run up the middle or run down both sides of the field to go for my opponents vehicles depending on where there at.
Now it sounds cool in theory but against fast opponents or those damned genestealer cults it doesn't work all that good. Basically if I can keep people away from my big guns I'm golden. But as soon as my opponent gets up on them it's game over for me.