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Hey all
just a few thoughts i have on 8th
firstly i refuse to buy anything from gw until i see the rules and such mostly because although they have said all units will have a use and such and play tested, I just feel that this will be a lie mostly because every company that has said it before has had such large gaping flaws in there game or on a certain army that you know its bull or been tested by dumb A's.

I also hate the idea of the ws being just a set role rather than a match of skill of sorts against two models, something about this just seems a little lazy and dull and something i feel should have been left out.

Also have such a bad feeling about space marines getting yet more new stuff while my army's get nothing again and although they have said every army will get some love this edition or this year cant remember which it is. How about getting rid of the finecast rip off crap like was promised ages ago now.

There is alot I like the sound of in the new edition as well like the movement values, tanks and such maybe being able to take hits and such, even the gun profiles look better a step in right direction but maybe not far enough. I am still on the fence about the templates being removed and a little unsure if there is a scatter mechanic in some form or where thats gone too.

My biggest concern is this for the next 6 months after release will it just be filled with space marine bull choas or imperial if so then the rest of us are screwed over for yet another long period of time and that is worrying because we all love new mini's and the fact they have already said this is basicly choas vs imperium edition I have a bad feeling in my gut. expect lots of pappa smurf type units and over grown space marines and mangled stupid spacemarines with stupid faces in there chest tor what not I hate them all. Give us xenos or give us death lol

I do think that the build up to 40k may be its own undoing as if they keep raising the bar in your mind then they are set up to disappoint

Well, it's true that we know Nothing about codices development so far ( at least I don't, if anyone caught wind of anything please enlight me) and what units are to be added to the game, however it seems that the rules are quite interesting so far apart from moral and this dyehard random charge. I'm still pretty optimisic about this and wouldn't start being hateful when i can't fully judge yet.

Still, you're right to be cautious and I wouldn't buy it, at least not right away, nor raise the bar up to the stratosphere -we knowGW is GW-. In fact, we'd rather wait and see.

I feel the templates being removed was necessary. It makes things simple for dealing damage to infantry and MC'S. Templates didn't make sense against MCs, a tank shell should be doing more then one wound to a an MC just like it kills more then one member of a squad.

10penceman wrote:

I also hate the idea of the ws being just a set role rather than a match of skill of sorts against two models, something about this just seems a little lazy and dull and something i feel should have been left out.

Also have such a bad feeling about space marines getting yet more new stuff while my army's get nothing again and although they have said every army will get some love this edition or this year cant remember which it is. How about getting rid of the finecast rip off crap like was promised ages ago now.

There is alot I like the sound of in the new edition as well like the movement values, tanks and such maybe being able to take hits and such, even the gun profiles look better a step in right direction but maybe not far enough. I am still on the fence about the templates being removed and a little unsure if there is a scatter mechanic in some form or where thats gone too.

My biggest concern is this for the next 6 months after release will it just be filled with space marine bull choas or imperial if so then the rest of us are screwed over for yet another long period of time and that is worrying because we all love new mini's and the fact they have already said this is basicly choas vs imperium edition I have a bad feeling in my gut. expect lots of pappa smurf type units and over grown space marines and mangled stupid spacemarines with stupid faces in there chest tor what not I hate them all. Give us xenos or give us death lol

I do think that the build up to 40k may be its own undoing as if they keep raising the bar in your mind then they are set up to disappoint

Were you equally unhappy with the fact that BS was a fixed role and took no account ot the target - be that a stationary vehicle in the open next to you or a Scout hidden cover at maximum range.

I have equal concerns about the flood of marine stuff that will be coming but thats GW for you.

Marines being the poster boys is not a new thing. All the starter sets had marines vs. something. But GW didn't drop a faction since 3rd edition. And the ones they drop weren’t a major faction. GW always brought new things for almost all the major factions in every edition. I expect releases for other factions soon after the release of 8th edition.

GW thinks "dumbing down" games makes them "more accessible". Problem is , wargaming isn't appealing to the people they are trying to access by "dumbing down" the game.

It's not so much dumbing down as it is trimming the fat. 7th edition is extremely bloated with rules, special rules, and obscure things even veterans of the game got incorrect just because of how many types and sub-types and caveats all the rules had. This is a much needed change, not just to make it more accessible, but to make it more streamlined.

7th is a bloated POS right now i agree. 8th is trimming bits of fat while grinding off entire body parts at the same time.

Pancakey wrote:
GW thinks "dumbing down" games makes them "more accessible". Problem is , wargaming isn't appealing to the people they are trying to access by "dumbing down" the game.

"using" a "bunch" of "quotations" "doesn't" "actually" "help". And they're not dumbing down the game, it's impossible with 7th how it is. 7th right now is about as dumb as games get.

As for the OP, wait on it. Chaos and Marines are almost definitely going to be the first 2 months of releases which is a bit unfortunate but Xenos should still have their day and that will give you time to see how the game itself shakes out and for GW to make any hotfixes it needs to.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
It's not so much dumbing down as it is trimming the fat. 7th edition is extremely bloated with rules, special rules, and obscure things even veterans of the game got incorrect just because of how many types and sub-types and caveats all the rules had. This is a much needed change, not just to make it more accessible, but to make it more streamlined.

Yeah this is a game I want to get my friends to play with me. That's hard when I tell them they have to put down 300 dollars just to start and then read this 100 page rule book

Pancakey wrote:
GW thinks "dumbing down" games makes them "more accessible". Problem is , wargaming isn't appealing to the people they are trying to access by "dumbing down" the game.

7th edition is built upon what people denounced as a 'dumbed down' version of 40k, to make it more accessible and faster-playing. Is anyone here old enough to remember the AoS-style rage over the change from 2nd to 3rd edition?

People adjusted, and kept gaming. Anything that can lessen the fact that 40k is an awesome setting with cumbersome rules is a good thing. The AoS rules (at their base, ignoring all the "joke" rules) are functional and accessible, and probably would have had much less alienation without the double-whammy of a setting-death on top of everything else.

The fact that several of the outsourced playtesters are big name tournament organizers, judges, and high ranking players (because let's face it, the high ranking players understand more about game balance than most. 50% of making it to top tables in the first place is writing a list with the understanding of what is and isn't broken, and knowledge of what other broken things will be appearing across the table,) is highly reassuring.

Frankie's blurb on 8e chaos today mentioned that the actual chaos marines, havocs, khorne berserkers, and terminators were all quite viable, and even downright fearsome, which is definitely a significant change.

I really feel like GW deserves the benefit of the doubt right now, as while the company may be the same, the leadership and direction is not. It feels very much like the new guys/new direction came in in latter 7th, and just had to deal with a hot mess and a bunch of content already finalized for print that they couldn't stop, and now are getting to their own baby without upper management screwing things up. (Believe me I know a thing or two about idiotic upper management screwing things up! Maybe that's why I sympathize with the rules team right now.)

 niv-mizzet wrote:
The fact that several of the outsourced playtesters are big name tournament organizers, judges, and high ranking players (because let's face it, the high ranking players understand more about game balance than most. 50% of making it to top tables in the first place is writing a list with the understanding of what is and isn't broken, and knowledge of what other broken things will be appearing across the table,) is highly reassuring.

Frankie's blurb on 8e chaos today mentioned that the actual chaos marines, havocs, khorne berserkers, and terminators were all quite viable, and even downright fearsome, which is definitely a significant change.

I really feel like GW deserves the benefit of the doubt right now, as while the company may be the same, the leadership and direction is not. It feels very much like the new guys/new direction came in in latter 7th, and just had to deal with a hot mess and a bunch of content already finalized for print that they couldn't stop, and now are getting to their own baby without upper management screwing things up. (Believe me I know a thing or two about idiotic upper management screwing things up! Maybe that's why I sympathize with the rules team right now.)

The new CEO really stepped into a sinking ship and has done wonders to pull it back out. The company is taking a turn for the better and I'm hoping it continues to go this way so that the game can be enjoyed by more people and hopefully bring people back

well as a group of us played 2nd edition and still do. I was one of the few that enjoyed 3rd edition despite the lack of cool situations. I did like the larger faster game.

with the talk of 8th having more similarities to 2nd than anything since 1998 there is the actual premise that some 2nd edition players may try 8th ed!

So it could be the next go to edition with this 8th.

We still all hate wounds on vehicles. instead of moving backwards to rogue trader 1st edition they should have moved towards datafaxes and 2nd edition.

Nothing dumber than my dreadnought feeling really hurt but can shoot all the guns despite being ready to fall down. If you blow off a cannon, it should be represented than taking a couple of wounds. It just defies the senses despite whatever gameplay sense it makes. imo..no... in our opinion

I'd see it as this: Heavily damaged brother Titus brings all guns to bear on the enemy, determined to takes as many of the Emperor's foes down with him as his sarcophagi is damaged and his armour can't take another direct hit.

I agree having things like weapons get blown off would be cool so I'm hoping there's something along that line in 8th. That being said the drips and dribbles of 8th leaks/previews is akin to being given the pieces to a 1000-piece jigsaw puzzle but you can't see the box, and you're given 7-12 random pieces each day. It's going to take a while before we see if the whole picture is sweet chocolate pudding, or a dog turd in a bowl.

 admironheart wrote:
well as a group of us played 2nd edition and still do. I was one of the few that enjoyed 3rd edition despite the lack of cool situations. I did like the larger faster game.

with the talk of 8th having more similarities to 2nd than anything since 1998 there is the actual premise that some 2nd edition players may try 8th ed!

So it could be the next go to edition with this 8th.

We still all hate wounds on vehicles. instead of moving backwards to rogue trader 1st edition they should have moved towards datafaxes and 2nd edition.

Nothing dumber than my dreadnought feeling really hurt but can shoot all the guns despite being ready to fall down. If you blow off a cannon, it should be represented than taking a couple of wounds. It just defies the senses despite whatever gameplay sense it makes. imo..no... in our opinion

I am one of those people and was hoping for more revised second and got especially excited after reading about Shadow War rules being second edition but I don't see it so much now though in the end must wait to see how it pans out. I think the wounds on vehicles might play well enough but the old data sheet damage tables would have been more interesting IMO.

The sensibilities of a vehicle damage allocation destroying part of the vehicle vs the wounds of 8th edition of course is always a fail. However I am willing to admit the loss of stats as a vehicle is losing wounds will 'abstractly' have a very very similar game play effect.

It is just are some willing to play an abstract game with a new abstract perspective?

I am more than willing with the very intriguing new rules released thus far.

wes

As other poster said, I wish that GW sill sell tons of space marines.

What I say tons. BAZILLIONS of new space marines. Because that way, they will have the money, the desire, and the capacity to make more dangerous empresarial moves.

Genestealer Cults? Yeah! Deathwathc?! OMG.

Harlequins?! At last! Slambo and Canoness Veridyan?! Take my money!

Space Marines are paying us all of that. Don't forgot that.

I am worried about losing game depth. The little things that make it interesting. Conversions for models that have rules, but no models.
I have made my own Cypher so he should be OK(Games Workshop produces one). But how many will disappear.

I see significant improvements in the game here. I admit, I was dubious at first (having something of an inbuilt suspicion of AoS, and seeing many changes to a similar system).

They're fixing a lot of broken mechanics from 7th, and they've stated the unit balance within and between factions has been significantly addressed. Until we see the new faction books, we'll have to take this at face value, but given they have taken on data from extensive playtesting with some of the best and most experienced players and organisers, I'm willing to bet the game will be much improved on this front.

Some changes that I'm happy to see:
-psychic powers rebalanced
-warlord traits rebalanced (maybe choice?)
-vehicles, MCs, GMC's, walkers brought in line with infantry
-heavy weapons can move and shoot with -1BS
-cover now adds to saves (so is much more important)
-end of absolute AP and replacement with modifiers - weaker troops now get saves!
-models now target rather than units, so weapon loadouts more diverse
-S vs T rebalanced (this makes a LOT of balance differences)
-end of formations (very broken part of 7th and cause of huge faction imbalance and list stagnation)
-morale much simpler, affects all units now, no more having your blob unit run off the table
-arguments over scatter dice now moot
-arguments over how many models under blast templates gone too
-individual movement values - fast units will be fast!
-assault is back! +1 to charge distance, strike first (no initiative values), pistols can be used in cc
-falling back from combat - no more tarpits, gunlines are back

That's just a few improvements - and we haven't seen the whole ruleset yet.

FIXED: psychic abuse, deathstars, scatbikes (S6 vs T4 now wounds on 3+) and probably bikes in general (might not get cover as infantry do), GMC's (wraithknights fixed), vehicles brought in line (so riptides not as dominant), no more D abuse, allies abuse...

How you can not think this is all GREAT is beyond me.

Hell, there might be a good reason to take Terminators in this edition! Deathwing armies might actually be a thing that's fun.

The real problem I see is that models seems to die by the bucketload in AoS, meaning even more impetus to have tons of models in an army that'll only see a turn or two on the table. I see lots of AoS games where the old problem still is there of half an army being slaughtered before the owning player even gets to play their first turn.