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2017/05/10 16:52:19
Subject: [The] - User Generated Kharadron Overlords - Tactica
I intend for this thread to be the For the Overlords by the Overlords tactica that all KO generals build as a compendium of lessons learned, buff tips, cool combos, generalship, list-building advice, battle reports, everything KO under the sun.
To kick it off, I'm going to give my take on Barak-Zilfin, but I'm going to leave space here to add general tips for all the Sky Ports, as well as unit briefs for everything in the Battletome. As people give good synopses of units or Sky Ports, I'll add them to this post for newcomers to catch up on all the basics of KO throughout the years.
The Sky Ports
Barak Nar
[/spoiler] Place holder
Barak Zilfin: The Windswept City
Spoiler:
Masters of the wind, the Duardin of Barak-Zilfin can arrive in force almost anywhere on the battlefield with stunning swiftness. This unmatched mobility gives them powerful alpha strike potential. If you want to use the Ironclad in battle, this is the port for you. Using a unique artefact, Aetherspheric Endrins, your Ironclad can enter from the Aethersphere, landing at least 9" from the enemy, disembark all its contents, and still fire, supporting a devastating fusillade from all those it disgorged and finished off with a charge if you can make it. This alone can collapse your opponent's flank, or assassinate key characters. In combination with other tricks found herein, this can cripple your opponent and place victory beyond their grasp before the battle is joined in earnest. This tactic synergizes well with the other boons available to Zilfin. One Skyvessel can move in the hero phase once per game, still able to disembark if you wish. Or, you can choose to move again in the movement phase. If an Admiral is onboard, you can run and shoot; and Zilfin Skyvessels always run 6". This has the potential of a 26" move, placing you anywhere along your opponent's line. Coupled with the Ironclad dropping out of the Sky, your entire force can be effectively anywhere on turn 1. This already creates deployment conundrums for your opponent but when paired with a final nuance, masks your intentions totally. If you select the Command Trait: Fleetmaster, a Skyvessel you deploy can be redeployed before the game begins. In this way, your opponent cannot count on knowing where any of your units will be on turn 1. Rounding out the Windswept City, they are more effective damage dealers against all flying units (looking at you Tzeentch!), Skyvessels get a 6+ save against mortal wounds and like all the named ports, can take an additional footnote of your choice. Unlike many other named ports, they do not have any battleshock modifiers so an Admiral may be more necessary with Zilfin than with others.
[spoiler]
Barak-Urbaz: The Market City: Credit to User IronDerp:
[spoiler]They say that trying to barter with a Trader from Barak-Urbaz is akin to fighting a sea of sky-beasts. A Barak-Urbaz army is able to get the most out of their troops. Their Aether-Khemists are known to be the best, and this is represented in their ability, which lets them buff TWO units instead of just one.They also can get an additional artifact thanks to their amendment Always Take What You Are Owed, And their unique footnote gives them an extra pile in attack or a round of shooting in the hero phase if they are 3" within an enemy. This combined with the footnote There's No Trading With Some People, and a buff from an Aether-khemist (you did make sure to bring one right?) can basically cause a whole round of pain from even a small unit. Also interesting is their Artefact of Power: Breath of Morgrim, which can only be equipped on an Ironclad. when your Ironclad moves, but doesn't run, it can select an enemy unit within 6", roll a dice for every model in the unit, if you score at least one 6, you deal D3 Mortal wounds! and this is before the thing fires all it's guns! the downside of this though is obviously the range, but hey that damage potential you can draw out is pretty scary.
Barak Mhornar
Place holder.
Barak Thrynng
[/spoiler] Place holder.
Barak Zon
[/spoiler] Place holder.
Unit Analysis
Brokk Grungsson
Admiral
Navigator
Khemist
Endrinmaster
Arkanaut Company
Grundstock Thunderers
Endrinriggers
Skywardens
Ironclad
Frigate
Gunhauler
Battalions
Artefacts of Power
Buffs, Combos and Strategems
This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2017/05/10 21:18:40
Rule #1 is Look Cool.
2017/05/10 20:48:53
Subject: [The] - User Generated Kharadron Overlords - Tactica
Barak-Urbaz: The Market City
They say that trying to barter with a Trader from Barak-Urbaz is akin to fighting a sea of sky-beasts. A Barak-Urbaz army is able to get the most out of their troops. Their Aether-Khemists are known to be the best, and this is represented in their ability, which lets them buff TWO units instead of just one.They also can get an additional artifact thanks to their amendment Always Take What You Are Owed, And their unique footnote gives them an extra pile in attack or a round of shooting in the hero phase if they are 3" within an enemy. This combined with the footnote There's No Trading With Some People, and a buff from an Aether-khemist (you did make sure to bring one right?) can basically cause a whole round of pain from even a small unit. Also interesting is their Artefact of Power: Breath of Morgrim, which can only be equipped on an Ironclad. when your Ironclad moves, but doesn't run, it can select an enemy unit within 6", roll a dice for every model in the unit, if you score at least one 6, you deal D3 Mortal wounds! and this is before the thing fires all it's guns! the downside of this though is obviously the range, but hey that damage potential you can draw out is pretty scary.
2017/05/11 00:24:28
Subject: Re:[The] - User Generated Kharadron Overlords - Tactica
Thunderers: Start with a basic gun, the Aethershot Rifle (18" range, 2 attacks (The gunnery sergeant makes 4 attacks instead of 2), 3+ hit, 4+ wound, -1 rend, 1 damage) and have access to a selection of interesting weapons of varying power and stupidity, they are as follows: Aetheric Fumigator (9" range, D3 attacks, 3+ hit, 2+ wound, -1 rend, 1 damage), Decksweeper (12" range, D6 attacks, 4+ hit, 4+ wound, -1 rend, 1 damage), Aethercannon (12" range, 1 attack, 4+ hit, 2+ wound, -2 rend, D3 damage), and the Grundstok Mortar (36" range, 1 attack, 4+ hit, 3+ wound, - rend, D3 damage). The Fumigator is good for units that aim to get close, the Decksweeper is useless, the Aethercannon is a massive damage dealer, and the Mortar can take light infantry at excellent range (Range so excellent they can just be sat in your deployment and don't need a Skyvessel transport). If you want to take advantage of the Aethercannon's insanely good stats for monster/hero hunting I highly recommend you throw at least one Fumigator (the larger the unit, the more Fumigators you can afford to take) in there to deter potential melee units from charging.
Also, while I really like this Dakka thread, the 1d4chan tactics article could do with any contributions you guys can make! A few other users and I have been building it up over the past few days, and while a good portion of it is looking good (Mostly thanks to the other users rather than myself, I've done comparatively little) the community will be glad to see content going up there.
Yeah, now that page's parent, the Kharadron's, just needs proper lore. Seriously, I've editted out the whole space marine spam they had going on there.
2017/05/12 03:20:10
Subject: Re:[The] - User Generated Kharadron Overlords - Tactica
TheManWithNoPlan wrote: Thunderers: Start with a basic gun, the Aethershot Rifle (18" range, 2 attacks (The gunnery sergeant makes 4 attacks instead of 2), 3+ hit, 4+ wound, -1 rend, 1 damage) and have access to a selection of interesting weapons of varying power and stupidity, they are as follows: Aetheric Fumigator (9" range, D3 attacks, 3+ hit, 2+ wound, -1 rend, 1 damage), Decksweeper (12" range, D6 attacks, 4+ hit, 4+ wound, -1 rend, 1 damage), Aethercannon (12" range, 1 attack, 4+ hit, 2+ wound, -2 rend, D3 damage), and the Grundstok Mortar (36" range, 1 attack, 4+ hit, 3+ wound, - rend, D3 damage). The Fumigator is good for units that aim to get close, the Decksweeper is useless, the Aethercannon is a massive damage dealer, and the Mortar can take light infantry at excellent range (Range so excellent they can just be sat in your deployment and don't need a Skyvessel transport). If you want to take advantage of the Aethercannon's insanely good stats for monster/hero hunting I highly recommend you throw at least one Fumigator (the larger the unit, the more Fumigators you can afford to take) in there to deter potential melee units from charging.
To put simply:
-Mortars are the best option overall, even better with a Khemist buff.
-Aethercannons are a good bet if you need the rend and have a Khemist to buff them.
-If building strictly in terms of effectiveness, don't bother with any of the other options.
I have to agree with Mortars being the best option. They force so many saves, combined with a Khemist doubling the hits it's insane. Something else to think about is Barak-Mhornar. Their command trait, Opportunistic Privateers, allows you to reroll failed to hit rolls against a chosen enemy for all of your units within 3" of your General. So now imagine THAT power multiplier.
The other thing I was thinking was an Ironclad loaded up with 20 Aethercannons, Khemist and the General. Rerolling those failed to hits is awesome and doubling the firepower as well. You could even do this with a Frigate and 10 Aethercannons as a surgical tool.
This buff works great on Light Skyhooks too.
"Orkses never lost a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!"
I dig how in a setting where giant, muscled fungus men ride Mad Max cars and use their own teeth as currency, the concept of little engineering dudes with beards was considered a step too far down the aisle of silliness.
ADB
2017/05/26 12:27:03
Subject: [The] - User Generated Kharadron Overlords - Tactica
I know Thunderers were the early leader for best unit in the book, or Khemist, but I think riggers are now firmly in the lead. Especially with a Zilfin frigate, which once a game can move 10", deploy 3" and then the Riggers can move a further 12", shoot their VERY capable pistols/drill cannons and then charge with their saws, which when buffed by a khemist(s), eviscerate everything. So here's a "Flight of the Valkyrie's" list for a tournament:
If you get first turn, tell me a list that can survive the shooting and assault along their entire line. If you get second turn, simply obscure the frigate to get +1 to its save and on your turn it immediately heals 4 wounds. Then you can set up for a double turn in which you'll have the real possibility of annihilating your opponent's entire army.
Rule #1 is Look Cool.
2017/05/26 18:06:36
Subject: [The] - User Generated Kharadron Overlords - Tactica
When you charge with four units, it means the enemy will get to attack several of them before they swing. At 2 wounds each they aren't at all hard to kill.
Well, 1) that's assuming that unit X survives a charge from the first 6 riggers who attack, 2) that there aren't enough eligible units for me to charge that allow me to activate first with all
my riggers.
So in other words, we still have to use some tactics
But yes, we are overall a glass cannon of an army so if the riggers get hit first by anything decent at combat, they're probably toast. That's why the skyvessel is important to shield them from shooting at first, and why their mobility is essential to charge what they want to, all fours units of them
Rule #1 is Look Cool.
2017/05/26 19:50:47
Subject: [The] - User Generated Kharadron Overlords - Tactica
They're not THAT fragile statwise, I mean they have heavy armor and they still have their guns to fire before they charge in. unless the opponent they're hurting is something REALLY tough or he botched his rolls, he should get a lot of damage in.
Though with a small model count they really can't afford to stay around for long.
2017/05/27 04:46:08
Subject: [The] - User Generated Kharadron Overlords - Tactica
The idea is that Endrinrigger units A, B, C and D charge enemy units W, X, Y, and Z respectively. Unit A swings first, decimating unit X. But now its the opponent's turn, and he gets to have unit Y attack unit B before it gets to swing. Back to you, attacking with unit C to beat up unit Y. Then back to the opponent, who swings with unit Z onto unit D.
Two of your Endrinrigger units have to weather the enemy close combat before they themselves swing. Then it's the enemy's turn, and the counterattack is likely to hurt badly because of the high points per wound endrinriggers have. Unless they are an unskilled player there is no way you will get charges on all of their key units; its very easy to put a chaff unit in front of an expensive one to eat charges like this. And before you bring up the Drill Cannons; 8 shots only generates an average of 8.33 wounds (including potential mortals); without the Khemist buff they aren't reliable because of only 1 attack on a 4+/3+ profile.
Now don't get me wrong; I don't feel this is a bad list as its entirely possible to just deal so much damage from the initial strike that the enemy can't recover. But it's risky and the price for failure is very high.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/27 04:46:23
Kharadron Overlords does seem to be a high risk, high reward army. They really depend on doing as much damage on the alpha strike or else you get steamrolled. This has to do with their lack of a unit that can actually hold ground.
I wanna consider a Kharadron Footslogging army since you can have 40 Ark Troops in one unit but then you might as well play a regular duadin army at that point...
2017/05/27 10:34:25
Subject: [The] - User Generated Kharadron Overlords - Tactica
NinthMusketeer wrote: The idea is that Endrinrigger units A, B, C and D charge enemy units W, X, Y, and Z respectively. Unit A swings first, decimating unit X. But now its the opponent's turn, and he gets to have unit Y attack unit B before it gets to swing. Back to you, attacking with unit C to beat up unit Y. Then back to the opponent, who swings with unit Z onto unit D.
Two of your Endrinrigger units have to weather the enemy close combat before they themselves swing. Then it's the enemy's turn, and the counterattack is likely to hurt badly because of the high points per wound endrinriggers have. Unless they are an unskilled player there is no way you will get charges on all of their key units; its very easy to put a chaff unit in front of an expensive one to eat charges like this. And before you bring up the Drill Cannons; 8 shots only generates an average of 8.33 wounds (including potential mortals); without the Khemist buff they aren't reliable because of only 1 attack on a 4+/3+ profile.
Now don't get me wrong; I don't feel this is a bad list as its entirely possible to just deal so much damage from the initial strike that the enemy can't recover. But it's risky and the price for failure is very high.
If this is how combat works we've been playing it completely wrong haha! We play it - charging unit 1 in each combat strikes first always, then target unit 1, then charging unit 2 for example. But you're saying that even if there are 2 separate combats, activations are "i go you go"?
If that is the case in Sigmar, is it better to have 1 giant unit of 15-24 riggers capable of charging 5-6 units at once? And if so, would the riggers all activate first and simply say which models are attacking against which units they are within striking range of?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/27 18:07:27
Rule #1 is Look Cool.
2017/05/27 19:01:18
Subject: [The] - User Generated Kharadron Overlords - Tactica
The player whose turn it is picks one unit in combat anywhere on the board to attack, then the opponent picks one unit in combat anywhere on the board to attack. Repeat unit every unit has swung. There aren't any distinct 'combats' anymore like WHFB; a unit is in melee or it isn't.
As I understand it, yes. I'm coming over from the old WFB and I've been drawn in by this army. It seems like a more mobile version of the old dwarf gun line, although it lacks some of the punch of the old artillery.
I'm wondering why Mhonar don't appear to be a massively popular choice with the shooting buffs, is there a mechanic in AoS that doesn't favour shooting or are the overlords just too costly to be effective ranged shooters?
2017/05/28 00:15:18
Subject: [The] - User Generated Kharadron Overlords - Tactica
Jdredsox wrote: As I understand it, yes. I'm coming over from the old WFB and I've been drawn in by this army. It seems like a more mobile version of the old dwarf gun line, although it lacks some of the punch of the old artillery.
I'm wondering why Mhonar don't appear to be a massively popular choice with the shooting buffs, is there a mechanic in AoS that doesn't favour shooting or are the overlords just too costly to be effective ranged shooters?
Shooting and mhornar are great, the latter is just outshined atm by urbaz with the khemist buff.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Shrike wrote: Right, so 1 unit of 24 riggers could assault 4,5,6 enemy units and strike first against all, allocating individual model's attacks as i wish?
In theory yes, but the max unit size is 12 in matched play.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/28 00:15:59
Mhornar, Urbaz and Zilfin are about even in popularity so far; as unscientifically gathered by 1 facebook poll and the lists in this forum the last 6 weeks.
All their tricks are different and roughly equal but on balance we're not close to sky fires or kunnin ruk. But I'm new to AoS so take that with a bucket of salt.
Rule #1 is Look Cool.
2017/05/28 04:39:17
Subject: [The] - User Generated Kharadron Overlords - Tactica
The Shrike wrote: Mhornar, Urbaz and Zilfin are about even in popularity so far; as unscientifically gathered by 1 facebook poll and the lists in this forum the last 6 weeks.
All their tricks are different and roughly equal but on balance we're not close to sky fires or kunnin ruk. But I'm new to AoS so take that with a bucket of salt.
We aren't, but that is a good thing. The AoS tournament scene is dominated by cheese builds; if an army (or unit/battalion) is doing well at tournaments it's a safe bet that it isn't balanced. If the cheese in AoS was eliminated then Kharadrons would be perfectly viable, which means we are exactly where we should be. Nurgle and Ironjawz are in a similar spot. Even Bonesplittaz would be totally balanced if the Kunnin' Rukk did not allow shooting as an option.
Jdredsox wrote: I'm wondering why Mhonar don't appear to be a massively popular choice with the shooting buffs, is there a mechanic in AoS that doesn't favour shooting or are the overlords just too costly to be effective ranged shooters?
While the rule for the shooting buff is absolutely fantastic, and could be devastating if you put your general with some Thunderers and a Khemist in an Ironclad, it is just one enemy unit being shot by units in one 3" bubble, and the frigate rule is just for the first turn. Other City Ports grant army-wide or at least more flexible rules that can find more uses in a competitive scenario, like taking Barak-Zilfin for better Skyvessels or Barak-Urbaz for even better Khemists - it's not as big of a buff necessarily, but it's more accessible.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 01:41:52
IronDerp wrote: Mhornar is kinda more risky than most others... I mean they really need to rely on the alpha strike...
Yeah I feel like Zilfin is pretty risky too with the alpha strike dependency but are more mobile so can perhaps redeploy better than other Skyports, or armies for that matter. But Urbaz seem to be the gunline-y choice for those inclined. Blue stuff a hundred mortars, sit back and blast away. Doesn't sound fun to me but probably the most competitive choice.
Rule #1 is Look Cool.
2017/05/31 23:50:06
Subject: [The] - User Generated Kharadron Overlords - Tactica
I'd say that Zilfin in general doesn't rely on an alpha strike unless you build your entire army around having a vessel with Aetherspheric Endrins.
Seconded on Urbaz seeming like the most competitive choice at the moment. I'm pretty sure the ideal Kharadron army for pure competition would have very few skyvessels (maybe a Frigate or two just to carry the mandatory Arkanaut Companies and make some Endrinriggers more mobile) and just spam Khemysts and Thunderers with mortars. But where would the fun be in that?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 23:53:12
That doesn't sound competitive to me at all. What happens when you play (defensive spec'd) stormcast and can't get through their armor? Or Destruction who only let you get (hopefully) 1 round of shooting in before they on you en masse? Or slyvaneth/ tzeentch who just going to blow away your Khemists.
If I was going to be doing a gunline I'd use Mhornar to reroll all those high damage shots that only hit on 4's.
I'd rather shoot with drill cannons (endrinriggers) than mortars, Aethercannons too.
Not that mortars are bad, you just definitely need the diversity imo.
All of the things. Most of the time.
2017/06/02 00:59:54
Subject: [The] - User Generated Kharadron Overlords - Tactica
That's the beauty of versatility though, since you're allowed to create your own interpretation of the code, which will probably be one of the key strategies to winning. Which will probably be the more sound choice.
The port cities themselves probably won't see tournament play since they're way too restrictive
2017/06/02 03:13:17
Subject: [The] - User Generated Kharadron Overlords - Tactica
I disagree. You straight up get more buffs as one of the skyports than you do just picking an article and whatnot.
Kharadron are way to risky rewards-y, I don't think you can make a list and then just be all "whatever" about your chapter tactics. You have to toattaly buy into whichever of the 4 main (so far) sky ports.
I don't think "casual" kharadron lists will do well, even in casual environments.
All of the things. Most of the time.
2017/06/02 05:38:10
Subject: [The] - User Generated Kharadron Overlords - Tactica
Cauthon wrote: I don't think "casual" kharadron lists will do well, even in casual environments.
I've found they do fairly well, actually. My very basic list (5 Thunderers with Mortars, 5 Thunderers with Aethercannons, three units of 10 Arkanauts, an Admiral, a Khemist and one of each Skyvessel) has done well against other casual lists. Stormcast, Orc, and Death forces have all been defeated. However I was defeated by some different Stormcast, Empire with Celestial Hurricanums, and Sylvaneth. We're not OP, but we do well against non-cheese lists.
Also, anyone got opinions on the Aethermatic Volleygun? I'm not too keen on it because of it's 5+ hit, but there's another Kharadron player in my area who says it's comparable to the other options for special weapons due to it's high number of shots.
