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So, as I was trying to decide on which Space Marine Legion to run for 8th edition, I took a look at the Thousand Sons. The tragic backstory resonated with my former English Literature studies, and the color schemes look awesome.
How would one go about running a loyalist version of them or a chapter that behaved like a loyalist version of them?
Yeah, but like how would I go about running something like them? Any kind of force organization rules (edit: sorry, I meant Chapter Tactics)?Or would I just paint them up and give them a bit more librarians? Anything that they couldn't take?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/12 22:29:23
Pretty sure loyalist Thousand Sons are called Grey Knights.
Oops, spoiler!
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
I am not sure where you can find rules for them, though I recommend that you check out 1d4chan.org. Other than that, run standard SM but lean heavy on the librarians. Good luck
There are fan rules of one sort or another floating about, but without more details on how 8e is organized it's hard to recommend a mode of organizing a Blood Raven army.
From Dawn of War, the 30k Thousand Sons rules, and a few tidbits of lore I would recommend focusing on infantry over armour and using a good number of support/divination psykers, but beyond that you may need to wait for the Space Marine army list.
for a start for a blood ravens army I'd snag a Librarian, and 2 squads of tac marines. only build 8 of the 10 tac marines. save special and heavy weapons for whem 8th releases. whatever your army ends up going with, you'll need some basic troops and a HQ. and a blood ravens army should jam as many Libbys into the mix as you can
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
I am not sure where you can find rules for them, though I recommend that you check out 1d4chan.org. Other than that, run standard SM but lean heavy on the librarians. Good luck
No, I spelled Loyalist Thousand Sons correctly. The first Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights was a loyalist T-Son, which is why GK practice Sorcery. While the Blood Ravens are heavily implied to be T-Sons, the Grey Knights actually are.
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
I am not sure where you can find rules for them, though I recommend that you check out 1d4chan.org. Other than that, run standard SM but lean heavy on the librarians. Good luck
No, I spelled Loyalist Thousand Sons correctly. The first Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights was a loyalist T-Son, which is why GK practice Sorcery. While the Blood Ravens are heavily implied to be T-Sons, the Grey Knights actually are.
SJ
I could always just make my Librarians Grey Knights
I am not sure where you can find rules for them, though I recommend that you check out 1d4chan.org. Other than that, run standard SM but lean heavy on the librarians. Good luck
No, I spelled Loyalist Thousand Sons correctly. The first Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights was a loyalist T-Son, which is why GK practice Sorcery. While the Blood Ravens are heavily implied to be T-Sons, the Grey Knights actually are.
SJ
whats your source on that?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/13 06:10:19
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Yeah, but like how would I go about running something like them? Any kind of force organization rules (edit: sorry, I meant Chapter Tactics)?Or would I just paint them up and give them a bit more librarians? Anything that they couldn't take?
There were blood raven rules, but this was back in fourth edition.
At the he end of the he say, It's your chapter - really, its up to you....
Even in 30k, there was no facet of the whole panoply of war where they could be said to be lacking.
Only suggestion I would make is have it led by a librarian...
greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy
"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are"
I am not sure where you can find rules for them, though I recommend that you check out 1d4chan.org. Other than that, run standard SM but lean heavy on the librarians. Good luck
No, I spelled Loyalist Thousand Sons correctly. The first Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights was a loyalist T-Son, which is why GK practice Sorcery. While the Blood Ravens are heavily implied to be T-Sons, the Grey Knights actually are.
SJ
whats your source on that?
The short story 'The Last Son of Prospero', by Chris Wraight.
From inferno I gather they were mostly infantry heavy generalists. THey couldn't fight attrition so they tried to always bring specialized weapons for the job.
Fluffwise GK would probably play similiar but they are currently a little too specialised in demonhunting so you'd need to mess around with GK/SM allies a bit.
We don't know for sure how 8th will work out so any future calls are hard to make.
If you do decide to run Blood Ravens there is nothing they won't field, it's how they got the name "Magpies" xD (In the DoW games their equipment is literally stolen from other chapters so there's an ongoing gag that the blood ravens will steal the bolts you nail things down with)
I am not sure where you can find rules for them, though I recommend that you check out 1d4chan.org. Other than that, run standard SM but lean heavy on the librarians. Good luck
No, I spelled Loyalist Thousand Sons correctly. The first Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights was a loyalist T-Son, which is why GK practice Sorcery. While the Blood Ravens are heavily implied to be T-Sons, the Grey Knights actually are.
SJ
whats your source on that?
The Lost Son of Prospero, by Chris Wraight.
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
You could always run the army as loyalists using SM models, but utilize the Thousand Sons rules from Traitor Legions. You could kitbash some headdresses to make it easier for an opponent to identify the models as counts-as 1kSons so it would be a fun modeling project too.
Via tabletop, in 6th the Mantis Warriors were the most fitting. You got more Librarian shenanigans and they were better in utilizing cover in the same way they operated in the Dawn of War game where they use terrain to their advantage.
That's about all the justification I can give. I guess the main reason we never got our Badab update was because they were planning for 8th, and per GW we are getting updated so...
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
I am not sure where you can find rules for them, though I recommend that you check out 1d4chan.org. Other than that, run standard SM but lean heavy on the librarians. Good luck
No, I spelled Loyalist Thousand Sons correctly. The first Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights was a loyalist T-Son, which is why GK practice Sorcery. While the Blood Ravens are heavily implied to be T-Sons, the Grey Knights actually are.
SJ
whats your source on that?
The Lost Son of Prospero, by Chris Wraight.
SJ
having checked out some spoilers, it's a pretty solid theory, but I'd caution against arguing it as explicit fact. there's been a number of "PROOF JANUS IS X" theories over the years
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
I am not sure where you can find rules for them, though I recommend that you check out 1d4chan.org. Other than that, run standard SM but lean heavy on the librarians. Good luck
No, I spelled Loyalist Thousand Sons correctly. The first Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights was a loyalist T-Son, which is why GK practice Sorcery. While the Blood Ravens are heavily implied to be T-Sons, the Grey Knights actually are.
SJ
whats your source on that?
The Lost Son of Prospero, by Chris Wraight.
SJ
having checked out some spoilers, it's a pretty solid theory, but I'd caution against arguing it as explicit fact. there's been a number of "PROOF JANUS IS X" theories over the years
True, and I was pretty sold on GKs being an Alpha Legion successor up until the Lost Son of Prospero. Now it's a dine deal fir the T-Sons.
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
The Grey Knights aren't successors of anyone. They had leaders that were members of other Legions at their start, but those leaders did not provide their Gene seed. Their Gene seed comes from the Emperor. Janus is said to have possibly been a Dark Angel as well. Or Alpharius or Omegon. Or possibly Sevatar.
But Blood Ravens most definitely are loyalist successors of the Thousand Sons. Hopefully Dawn of War III makes that even more clear.
casvalremdeikun wrote: The Grey Knights aren't successors of anyone. They had leaders that were members of other Legions at their start, but those leaders did not provide their Gene seed. Their Gene seed comes from the Emperor. Janus is said to have possibly been a Dark Angel as well. Or Alpharius or Omegon. Or possibly Sevatar.
But Blood Ravens most definitely are loyalist successors of the Thousand Sons. Hopefully Dawn of War III makes that even more clear.
Read the Horus Heresy novels. Much is revealed. Much is implied. Much has not been addressed yet. But of the bits revealed, one is the Grey Knight origin via its founding and its leadership. Chapter 666 is a 1st Founding chapter rather than the XXI Legion, and it was implied that the Alpha Legion may have had a hand in its founding. However, the implied AL connection did not pan out, as the T-Son origin is what ended up getting published.
Blood Ravens are about as Thousand Son as the Carchardons are World Eaters (hint: they aren't, it's a tease).
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
casvalremdeikun wrote: The Grey Knights aren't successors of anyone. They had leaders that were members of other Legions at their start, but those leaders did not provide their Gene seed. Their Gene seed comes from the Emperor. Janus is said to have possibly been a Dark Angel as well. Or Alpharius or Omegon. Or possibly Sevatar.
But Blood Ravens most definitely are loyalist successors of the Thousand Sons. Hopefully Dawn of War III makes that even more clear.
Read the Horus Heresy novels. Much is revealed. Much is implied. Much has not been addressed yet. But of the bits revealed, one is the Grey Knight origin via its founding and its leadership. Chapter 666 is a 1st Founding chapter rather than the XXI Legion, and it was implied that the Alpha Legion may have had a hand in its founding. However, the implied AL connection did not pan out, as the T-Son origin is what ended up getting published.
Blood Ravens are about as Thousand Son as the Carchardons are World Eaters (hint: they aren't, it's a tease).
SJ
But just because first guy leading was t-son doesn't mean rest are. More crucial question than who was leader is _where the geneseed comes_.
If geneseed comes from emperor and isn't based on tsons then they aren't tsons.
I'm also looking to convert a loyalist splinter group of Thousand Sons/proto Blood Ravens, specifically with that beautiful Pre-Heresy color scheme. Really just looking for an excuse to buy that Osiron Contemptor Dreadnought (maybe run it as a BA Librarian for 40k?)
They call it the emperor's gift and say it comes from a cleaner purer scource. My money is on the emperor (unless you know something about the way gene-seed is harvested from primarchs).
Its used to grow new organs to be implanted into a human body, and to help prepare and direct the growth of that body in ways that are not natural for a human.
The emperor was born a normal human biologically, but something far more amd greater in the psychic sense.
Therefore since he has none of these organs he has no geneseed to use tobmake those organs. Which is why he created all this stuff in a lab.
Its used to grow new organs to be implanted into a human body, and to help prepare and direct the growth of that body in ways that are not natural for a human.
The emperor was born a normal human biologically, but something far more amd greater in the psychic sense.
Therefore since he has none of these organs he has no geneseed to use tobmake those organs. Which is why he created all this stuff in a lab.
But who's to say he cannot MAKE geneseeds out of his own genes?
Let's see. We have guy who can create geneseeds artificially. Why he cannot make ones that utilizes selected genes of himself?
Because he had to create a new kind of human -the primarchs- to do it in the first place.
He doesnt have those organs. He created primarchs who apparently either do have those organs, or have such a strange biology that when made into a gland and implanted in a human leads to very strange results.
What ever makes the gray knights special is certainly something special- but its not some magic potion to make them baby emperors.
The space marines, the primarchs, even his honoured Custodian guard are all tools of war. Tools that were made with death as tje very likely fate that will befall them.
Why would the emperor want to stroke his own vanity like that, when there's not really any evidence other than rumours either Custodians (his greatest warriors) or the thunder warriors used him as a genetic template.
Take the “emperors gift” as what it is- something that only the grey knights know the truth of, and is surrounded by rumour and religion by everyone else who can't think of what it could actually be.
fide et honore 
5250 pts
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iThe emperor isnt a primarch, or a space marine. So unless “geneseed” means semen (it doesn't) the Emperor has no geneseed to give.