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Made in us
Leader of the Sept






So, ever since I discovered the little god-machine called an airbrush, I have noticed something in person and online.
People hating on airbrushing and work done with an airbrush. By my local "Friends" at gaming nights, whenever I told a few of an effect was caused by an airbrush, they would get mad or say it was cheating.
I had one guy tell me that he is a better painter than me(He isn't) because he doesn't use an airbrush so his painting is more "Pure"
At a GW store, I was told by one of the regulars that airbrushing is "Pure Cancer" and shouldn't be allowed in the store(The owner had an airbrushed IMP Fists army he was working on)
When I look online, I see the same type of comments. one that stuck out was "Great, Another tutorial that uses an airbrush, why cant I find ones that use normal painting anymore"
Why the hate on airbrushing so much?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/15 16:57:22


Bullockist wrote:I think a mini of hotsauceman1 rending the overly serious posters of dakka in twain with a flexing of humourous intent would be a winning mini.

4000pts 2000 1500
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Cutting stuff up and bunging it back together in new and interesting ways.






Over there...

I think a lot of it, like the disdain for drybrushing in some quarters, comes from a lot of hobbyists' exposure being primarily the 'bad' stuff. Airbrushing, other than in the hands of a master, tends to be quite distinctive, and it's a style that many aren't fans of... And not knowing any better, they just assume that this is all airbrushes are capable of and write off the entire technique as a result.

There's also those (generally those who've never tried to do it) who think it's an easy shortcut (akin to just using a spray can) and therefore not on the same level as 'real' painting with a brush, which is perceived as requiring more skill. Which is, really, a little ignorant (since airbrushing is only easier for certain specific things) and a little weird...

At the end of the day, they're your miniatures. If you want to brush paint them, air brush them, or dip them in house paint, just do it. Paint for yourself, not the approval of others.

   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Vigo. Spain.

The real "cancer" is people shaming others by how they paint their miniatures.

If its is painted, just decent, who are you to say others that they are cheating? Or that they techniches are "cancer"?
Thats the kind of ignorant people that just don't want to learn new techniques.

Bad Airbrushing is bad airbrushing, just as painting bad is bad whenever the technique.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Speedy Swiftclaw Biker




Ask how they got to the game store. If they respond with anything other than "I walked" accuse them of cheating.

Ask if they primed their army and if so, how. If they used a rattle can instead of a brush, express disdain and claim they cheated.

An airbrush is a tool. It is a piece of technology. It has strengths, but also significant limitations.
   
Made in nz
[DCM]
Purging heretical mould lines.





Best thread I ever saw on this topic was Doomthumbs' opinion on people who complained about dipping;

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/394884.page

Still makes me chuckle.

 MLaw wrote:
I trust nobody's horses anymore
 
   
Made in lt
Dakka Veteran






I heard one saying that vivid brush strokes feel more natural He wasn't hating on the airbrush in general though.

   
Made in au
Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





 insaniak wrote:
I think a lot of it, like the disdain for drybrushing in some quarters, comes from a lot of hobbyists' exposure being primarily the 'bad' stuff. Airbrushing, other than in the hands of a master, tends to be quite distinctive, and it's a style that many aren't fans of... And not knowing any better, they just assume that this is all airbrushes are capable of and write off the entire technique as a result.

There's also those (generally those who've never tried to do it) who think it's an easy shortcut (akin to just using a spray can) and therefore not on the same level as 'real' painting with a brush, which is perceived as requiring more skill. Which is, really, a little ignorant (since airbrushing is only easier for certain specific things) and a little weird...

At the end of the day, they're your miniatures. If you want to brush paint them, air brush them, or dip them in house paint, just do it. Paint for yourself, not the approval of others.

This is all that needs to be said. A lot of super well done miniatures start with an airbrush, and you'd never tell once completed.

I think most people who don't like airbrushing, don't necessarily hate the technique but rather don't like the transition heavy, overdone OSL look that took off a few years ago among commission painters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/14 06:01:36


 
   
Made in us
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre




Missouri

Refusing to use an airbrush doesn't make you a "better" painter any more than refusing to use a hammer to drive in a nail makes you a better carpenter, in my opinion. You're just deliberately refusing to use a tool designed to make a certain job easier for the sake of boosting your ego, or just to say you can. I can respect someone who just wants the challenge, but for everyone else it's hobby elitism and nothing more.

The right way to respond to airbrushing is being happy that someone painted their army, which if anything is the REAL "cancer" of this hobby (second to the extremely negative and elitist community), if you're going to call anything about it "cancer" in the first place. And I'm saying that as someone who hasn't painted anything in years. I always found it incredibly irritating how everyone shames people for playing with unpainted armies or never bothering to paint at all, while also condemning the use of drybrushing or dipping techniques, or the use of an airbrush, to get an army painted up. You don't get to lament about people not putting in the "bare minimum" to get an army done and then give them gak for not doing it to Golden Demon quality, with only "approved" tools and techniques.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Well, 40k is already a lot like Dark Souls if you think about it. It's a painful, frustrating experience to get through and people will tell you to git gud if you complain.


"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game." 
   
Made in gb
Irked Necron Immortal





Hampshire, UK

I notice this also. I was even told after a local painting comp by a GW manager that by using an airbrush for a blend on a weapon it "almost cost me the win" such was the hate people have for airbrushing.

In other events I've also experienced people going to great lengths to ensure I knew their models were painted "by hand".

It's almost as if people think that airbrushes just spray a fully painted model in one go!


 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Don't we have this discussion every few months?

Some people don't like airbrushes because they don't like the look it produces when used to create exaggerated blends. Some people don't like it because they feel it's "cheating".

At the end of the day, feth 'em, it's just another tool and if it gives you a look you like then go for it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/14 08:46:21


 
   
Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM




Computer City

ingtaer wrote:
Best thread I ever saw on this topic was Doomthumbs' opinion on people who complained about dipping;

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/394884.page

Still makes me chuckle.


Oh my, what an insane thread! Haha

Bye bye Dakkadakka, happy hobbying! I really enjoyed my time on here. Opinions were always my own :-) 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




South Australia

I hate airbrushes and paintbrushes equally and have taken to keeping my miniatures free of the impurity of paint.
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch






When people ask me how I paint fast, or ask for advice on painting armies etc...my answer is simple: "Cheat".

Would you rather see an army of grey plastic across the table or something painted? My entire army is dipped (outside of vehicles) and hell yes I'll continue to cheat. My goal is simple - not to "lower" the level of the game aesthetic when I place models on the table --- my group happens to consist of excellent painters and people who take the table very seriously, as I do. We love great terrain and nicely painted minis.

I'm not entering painting competitions, so I will continue to "cheat" as often and as thoroughly as possible.

The only caveat here is that with so much fantastic stuff available, I find people have less and less excuses to not actually paint their damn minis. If you can spray paint a Space Marine a bas colour...paint his bolt gun and eyes and dip it...and then throw grass on the base, you have no excuse.


 
   
Made in gb
Most Glorious Grey Seer






Never encountered such snobbery myself.

They're a mighty useful tool, especially if you like your tanks or Maureens - you can get your base coat on in pretty much no time.

Fed up for Scalpers? Why not join us? 
   
Made in ca
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine






It's jealousy. You have a nice tool that makes your life easier, and they do not. Therefore, you are a bad person and you minis are bad because it's unfair that you should have something nice because you were willing to spend money and learn a skill.

They feel you are trying to force them to buy a thing, because if they don't they can't keep up (with either the speed or quality of the paint job), and it's ALL about keeping up with the Joneses.

The very fact that one guy insisted he's a 'better' painter is pretty much proof of that. A 'better' painter doesn't turn up his nose at what works. Some effects would take hours with a hair brush that takes minutes with an air brush. That doesn't make it 'cheating' to use an airbrush, that makes it SMART to use an airbrush.


   
Made in us
Repentia Mistress






I don't find the style of "OMG OSL EVEYWHERE" I often see with airbrush armies all that appealing.

Other than my preference NOT to have MY armies painted that way, whatever helps kill off the hoard of unpainted mini's I am all for.

Your hobby, your money, your time, your life. Spend it how you will.

Just kill the unpainted mini's first...

Order of the Argent Shroud.
Raven Guard 5th Battle Co.
Tzeentch Daemons
Bretonnians
 
   
Made in us
Thermo-Optical Tuareg






Nashville, TN

Airbrushing is a tool in the arsenal. I have no issue with it, just like dry brushing. What I do have issue with is when it's the only thing done to a model and people act like it's beautiful. Some people get blinded by the amazing blends and highlights that can be produced and don't even notice that not a single detail is picked out or painted. Bleh.

"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"

-Nobody Ever

Proverbs 18:2

"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.

 warboss wrote:

GW didn't mean to hit your wallet and I know they love you, baby. I'm sure they won't do it again so it's ok to purchase and make up.


Albatross wrote:I think SlaveToDorkness just became my new hero.

EmilCrane wrote:Finecast is the new Matt Ward.

Don't mess with the Blade and Bolter! 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
per aspera ad inferos






It seems this thread pops up every month in the Painting and Modeling forum, I think its been discussed ad nauseam. Lets all go tell H.R. Giger's ghost that airbrushing is cheating.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
What I do have issue with is when it's the only thing done to a model and people act like it's beautiful. Some people get blinded by the amazing blends and highlights that can be produced and don't even notice that not a single detail is picked out or painted. Bleh.


That right there is your problem, you get that right? You're saying they are wrong for finding something beautiful, because YOU know better.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/14 13:01:07


   
Made in kr
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller






your mind

I hate people who airbrush because I don't have one.
Seriously. I want one and want to learn to use one.
I just hate people who have the time money and talent to have already gotten that done.
Rot in hades you airbrushing baguettes!

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Of all the things to worry about in this world, to airbrush or not to airbrush is not one of them. They're your models. Roll them in glitter.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




 dracpanzer wrote:
I don't find the style of "OMG OSL EVEYWHERE" I often see with airbrush armies all that appealing.


Too true. I feel many people's exposure to airbrushing is from various "studios" that'll slap a load of OSL and other gak on the latest GW release they've knocked out in a weekend just to be the first to have a painted example of it and it frankly is a terrible example of the art.
   
Made in gr
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

Personally I think not only is an airbrush cheating, but so is a handbrush.

All my models are exclusively finger painted, and anyone who uses tools to apply paint isn't a real painter.
   
Made in us
[ARTICLE MOD]
Huge Hierodule






North Bay, CA

When I first started, 30 years ago, I had to make my own brushes from harvested cat fur and take-out chopsticks, I volunteered to clean chalkboard after school so that I could make white paint. We didn't have Spartans, we had to blow pigment through straws...and only had one of those. I consider any other technique to be cheating


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seriously though, do whatever brings you the most satisfaction and ignore the naysayers. I use mine mostly for associating which delivers better results in less time. Obviously, just because you can e.g. OSL, doesn't mean you should

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/14 14:46:42


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Anyone who thinks any method of decorating wargaming miniaures is "cheating" is an idiot. It's all about the end result.

Choose oil paints and turps, choose cheap craft-store acrylics or "proper" miniature paints, choose airbrushing. Choose free-hand painting unit emblems or decals, it's all the same in the end.

I chose heroin instead ... no, wait, wrong script, sorry.

The final result is all that matters. As long as you enjoyed yourself getting there, anyone who complains you did it the "easy" way is an idiot.

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Best bush pilot in the Outer Rim





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

If by "cheating" they mean "having more free time to engage in other activities", then yeah, sure, I guess.

I'm a brush guy myself, mostly because acquiring one o fthe better machines would put me out of funds for a bit and I just do it for its own sake of a zen moment.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/503887.page (My humble P&M thread that I'll sometimes update, here on Dakka.) 
   
Made in us
Thermo-Optical Tuareg






Nashville, TN

 Zach wrote:
It seems this thread pops up every month in the Painting and Modeling forum, I think its been discussed ad nauseam. Lets all go tell H.R. Giger's ghost that airbrushing is cheating.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
What I do have issue with is when it's the only thing done to a model and people act like it's beautiful. Some people get blinded by the amazing blends and highlights that can be produced and don't even notice that not a single detail is picked out or painted. Bleh.


That right there is your problem, you get that right? You're saying they are wrong for finding something beautiful, because YOU know better.


Read my post again. I said "I have issue with" which is pretty up front in saying it's my problem. Keep your preachy assumptions in your own vapid skull, thanks.

"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"

-Nobody Ever

Proverbs 18:2

"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.

 warboss wrote:

GW didn't mean to hit your wallet and I know they love you, baby. I'm sure they won't do it again so it's ok to purchase and make up.


Albatross wrote:I think SlaveToDorkness just became my new hero.

EmilCrane wrote:Finecast is the new Matt Ward.

Don't mess with the Blade and Bolter! 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch






This is Dakka...the most dangerous place to have an opinion.

 
   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Vigo. Spain.

 Elbows wrote:
This is Dakka...the most dangerous place to have an opinion.


Wasn't that North Korea?

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Leader of the Sept






 John Prins wrote:
It's jealousy. You have a nice tool that makes your life easier, and they do not. Therefore, you are a bad person and you minis are bad because it's unfair that you should have something nice because you were willing to spend money and learn a skill.

They feel you are trying to force them to buy a thing, because if they don't they can't keep up (with either the speed or quality of the paint job), and it's ALL about keeping up with the Joneses.

The very fact that one guy insisted he's a 'better' painter is pretty much proof of that. A 'better' painter doesn't turn up his nose at what works. Some effects would take hours with a hair brush that takes minutes with an air brush. That doesn't make it 'cheating' to use an airbrush, that makes it SMART to use an airbrush.


I honestly feel it might be this, atleast with my FLGS guys who complain that me and some friends also buy too much and pay to win the game.

Bullockist wrote:I think a mini of hotsauceman1 rending the overly serious posters of dakka in twain with a flexing of humourous intent would be a winning mini.

4000pts 2000 1500
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Bird from Hell






IMO the problem is not the airbrush, it's the "LOOK AT ME I HAVE AN AIRBRUSH" style that is popular with certain minimal-talent commission painters. They want to make models that their customers aren't able to do on their own, but they don't want to spend any time on it. So what's the easiest solution? Make it incredibly obvious that an airbrush (which the customer doesn't own) was used to paint the models, but don't bother to spend any more time than absolutely necessary. So you get dramatic shading that has nothing to do with where areas of light and shadow would be on the real thing, "OSL" that is just giant blobs of white sprayed over every possible light/lens/plasma coil/vent/whatever with no concern given to where the emitted light would fall (or if the thing in question would even emit light at all), zero attention given to fine detail work, etc. It all looks like trash that should go straight into a bucket of paint stripper, but because the customer can't duplicate the airbrush "effects" and apparently don't know any better they're willing to hand over their wallets. And then even people who aren't doing commission painting duplicate the "LOOK AT ME I HAVE AN AIRBRUSH" style, probably on the mistaken assumption that if people are paying money for something it must be a style worth learning from.

In contrast to this you have the kind of subtle airbrush work that is often found on historical kits. The airbrush is a useful tool for getting smooth coats with no brush strokes and for certain weathering techniques, but there's also a ton of conventional brush work involved and you probably couldn't tell which parts involved an airbrush without a very careful inspection and significant knowledge of painting techniques. And I don't think anyone can complain that this kind of thing is "not real painting" or whatever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Zach wrote:
That right there is your problem, you get that right? You're saying they are wrong for finding something beautiful, because YOU know better.


They know better, I know better, anyone with a basic understanding of painting can know better. A model with dramatic airbrushed highlights (usually done with no concern for realistic light and shadow, because good shading takes work) but zero attention given to detail work is unfinished trash.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/15 02:32:06


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