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I don't mean on a strategic level - I know an Inquisitor redirected a Hive Fleet into an Orkish empire - but on a tactical level. Have they ever teamed up to face a bigger threat during a skirmish?

Is the Hive Mind even capable of telling Tyranids not to engage specific factions, or are they the only race in 40k incapable of alliances?

Unless you include Genestealer Cults as a separate faction, no I don't believe so.

The closest you could get would be a Hive Fleet and another faction attacking the same target at the same time, and that's just good fortune not an 'alliance' as such. There is no agreement, just opportunism. I can't recall if it's in the current Dark Eldar codex, but I remember some lore about them purposefully crippling a section of an Imperial world's defence line to allow the Tyranids to break through. But this was so they could then raid a weakly-defended vault or something. I think it worked too well and they had to fight both IG and Tyranids on their way out to.

To my knowledge, Tyranids have never allied with anyone and probably never will.

They probably don't even understand the concept of alliance.

Actually it has happened (sort of) in one of the the Cain books. A Tyranid ship from a hive fleet kind of allies with the humans against Tyranids from a diffrent fleet. It's not so much allies as the Imperium using the Tyranid rivaliry to their advantage but they do arguably work togheter. Excuse the seeming insecurity in the reply, spoilers below for clarifications


Other then that the Tyranids can't really suffer losses so any biological enemy would be simply a time investment. Any dead Tyranid or dead adversary can simply be recycled into more bio mass, making the notion of allying pointless. Note the use of "biological enemy", because this is not true vs deamons or necrons. If Tyranids where to make a temporary alliance it'd probably be against Necron, deamons or other tyranids.

The Zoats?

I had funny scene pop into my head around a potential conversation between someone (alien 1) wishing to ally with the tyranids, crossed with that famous 'getting kicked into that round hole' scene in 300

In short it consists of Alien 1 standing in front of some tyranids saying it sees great opportunities for them to work together and then asking for an alliance...

A very short pause...

A few surprised screams from Alien 1 along the lines of "why are you eating my legs"

If only the Tyranids had a hot chick as their leader... what crazy things could happen...

 Galas wrote:
If only the Tyranids had a hot chick as their leader... what crazy things could happen...

Don't give them ideas!

Well, they would never ally anything, however ifseveral opponents are present, they might just go a bit random and LOOK like they were allying one of them, but that can't happen since the hive's only goal isto eat anything that would drop breath. Well, or maybe they would set some food aside for the departure trip?

Tyranids are allied to everyone in the galaxy. Their allies provide them with valuable food and biomass.

But no. We don't even know if the Tyranid hive mind is sentient, let alone whether it can comprehend such vastly alien concepts such as 'do not eat your food.'

In any case, such a thing has never happened, and I think the Tyranid position on the allies matrix makes it pretty clear that it isn't supposed to be happening.

That said, the only factions I could ever see the Tyranids allying with are Genestealer cults.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
That said, the only factions I could ever see the Tyranids allying with are Genestealer cults.

And then Genestealer Cults could ally with Imperial Guard, since the GSC could have infiltrated the planet's PDF and gained complete access to the armory, infiltrated leadership, and could be fuddling with further alliances withing the Imperium. I could easily see a GSC infected General requisitioning Space Marine support to fight Chaos or Orks, only to later betray them when they are least expecting it.

Holy cow, I just realized what GSC needs: Genestealer-hybrid Ogryns! Make it happen GW!

Do GSC even count? It seems like the way that GCS imagine things is so ... er, romanticized compared to what is actually in store for them if a hive fleet shows up.

To ask the inverse, on what conditions would Nids fight GSCultists? Is it the same situation as Nids fighting against Nids (i.e., different hive fleets smell funny to one another)? Is the current fluff that a particular GSC is tied to a particular hive fleet?

 Galas wrote:
If only the Tyranids had a hot chick as their leader... what crazy things could happen...

We do not need Kerrigan in 40k.

 Manchu wrote:
Do GSC even count? It seems like the way that GCS imagine things is so ... er, romanticized compared to what is actually in store for them if a hive fleet shows up.

To ask the inverse, on what conditions would Nids fight GSCultists? Is it the same situation as Nids fighting against Nids (i.e., different hive fleets smell funny to one another)? Is the current fluff that a particular GSC is tied to a particular hive fleet?

I could see the leadership of a Genestealer Cult not liking the idea of being assimilated into biomass, and trying to retain independence from the Hive Mind. I don't think it would work with the Broodlord was still around, but I could see a GSC under Hybrid leadership as having the potential to break from their original purpose.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
We do not need Kerrigan in 40k.

Wargamer Exclusive do a Kerrigan Genestealer Prime.. it looks awesome, got one to use with Metamorphs =D

If i remember well GSC cult or Nothing more than traitors plus or less controlled by the hive mind, in some way.So to me they're basically just a tyranid subfaction comparable to Chaos cults as far as the lore.

Do Dark Eldar using Tyranids as captured arena beasts count as an 'alliance'?

I've also seen some pretty good conversions for Orks of a Looted Carnifex but I'm pretty sure there's no canon to support that :p.

 Manchu wrote:

 Galas wrote:
If only the Tyranids had a hot chick as their leader... what crazy things could happen...

Don't give them ideas!

They do have the Norn Queen...

If only the Tyranids had a hot chick as their leader... what crazy things could happen...

Don't give them ideas!

Uggh, dont go there. One of my big fears for Nids with 8th is that they'll Necron-ise them and give individual Tyrants or Old One Eye or Swarmy personalities now
Oh look, lets bargain with the Nids or sit down for some tea and sandwiches and discuss their goals.....

Fully agree, Ratius. I loathe the seemingly common notion that the Hivemind is some kind of monolithic sentience. The notion of individual personalities among the Nids is even more repulsive.

One cannot ally with a virus. One can use a virus, even against itself, but can never be an ally to it.

 Frazzled wrote:
One cannot ally with a virus. One can use a virus, even against itself, but can never be an ally to it.

With the new Baal Warzone being IoM (with possible Necron assistance) vs Tyranids vs Chaos, I'm pretty sure there will be plenty of scenarios when factions use each other, but no one is exactly sure of who is using who.

 Ratius wrote:

If only the Tyranids had a hot chick as their leader... what crazy things could happen...

Don't give them ideas!

Uggh, dont go there. One of my big fears for Nids with 8th is that they'll Necron-ise them and give individual Tyrants or Old One Eye or Swarmy personalities now
Oh look, lets bargain with the Nids or sit down for some tea and sandwiches and discuss their goals.....

I misread that last word as goats...

AdMech keep going "wakey wakey, hands off snakey!" on dormant Tyranid ships and/or taking some back for experimentation. Circumstantial allies?

 Ratius wrote:

If only the Tyranids had a hot chick as their leader... what crazy things could happen...

Don't give them ideas!

Uggh, dont go there. One of my big fears for Nids with 8th is that they'll Necron-ise them and give individual Tyrants or Old One Eye or Swarmy personalities now
Oh look, lets bargain with the Nids or sit down for some tea and sandwiches and discuss their goals.....

"Norn-mammu, I've come to bargain..."

 Manchu wrote:
Do GSC even count? It seems like the way that GCS imagine things is so ... er, romanticized compared to what is actually in store for them if a hive fleet shows up.

To ask the inverse, on what conditions would Nids fight GSCultists? Is it the same situation as Nids fighting against Nids (i.e., different hive fleets smell funny to one another)? Is the current fluff that a particular GSC is tied to a particular hive fleet?

e im
GSC members are completely under the control of Genestealers, who are completely under the control of the Hive Mind when in synapse zones. The GSC humans have the exact same self-control and choice in the matter as the rest of the Nids: none. That's the whole point of GSC, to subdue a preyworld so it allows itself to be consumed with minimal fuss. That said, elements of planet won't be part of the Cult, and in many cases the cult is a small section of the planet, in which situations the Cult springs a trap on the defenders such as on Ichar IV. But even then, its still just part of the Hive and obeys the Hive Mind. It's prime purpose is to get the planet consumed. NOW, if helping the local defenders against the fleet briefly is beneficial, for example, gaining trust so that they could lure them into a trap, that's fine. But most Cultists are horribly mishapen and a Space Marine would notice immediately, while any force with a psyker would immediately detect the psychic influence of the Genestealer Brood Mind on the infected humans, so that's out.



As for Nids vs Nids, its all one Hive Mind, it just likes to pit the different fleets against each other. Its a controlled natural selection experiment, to see which is the superior fleet and thus absorb all the collective DNA and biomass information. Hive Fleet Gorgon, for example, has Tau information in its DNA, and Leviathan has Ork, but they may not necessarily have the other, so merging the two fleets would give a superhive with both Ork and Tau data. Its also a great chance for "training" and testing its strategy and tactics against, arguably, the only force that could possibly match the Hive Mind's instinctive tactical acumen and omniscient vision: itself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:

If only the Tyranids had a hot chick as their leader... what crazy things could happen...

Don't give them ideas!

Uggh, dont go there. One of my big fears for Nids with 8th is that they'll Necron-ise them and give individual Tyrants or Old One Eye or Swarmy personalities now
Oh look, lets bargain with the Nids or sit down for some tea and sandwiches and discuss their goals.....

It's already canon that Hive Tyrants have different personalities and relative autonomy (5th Ed Codex). This is what the Old Adversary and Hive Commander represented. A Hive Tyrant with the memories of this particular foe, better suited for killing it, or one that's got a better understanding of outflanking and encirclement tactics.

Bioengineering is a tricky business. If you give a Hive Tyrant acid blood, you're changing its chemical composition which might affect its brain, such as giving it better depth perception and thus that Hive Tyrant leans its strategy towards ranged combat until such time as it needs to adapt. Another Hive Tyrant might be armed for purely melee and be given a purely melee force, and so it might prefer to lead from the front. If all Hive Tyrants were the same, the Swarmlord would be a totally contradictory creation: after all, why not simply make ALL Tyrants that intelligent? Why have Tyrants are all, and not just more Warriors to cover more area? Its because Tyrants have autonomy and self-awareness to enact tactics "on the ground" while the Hive Mind directs the wider strategy and brings it information from all over the battlefield.

 Nerak wrote:
Actually it has happened (sort of) in one of the the Cain books. A Tyranid ship from a hive fleet kind of allies with the humans against Tyranids from a diffrent fleet. It's not so much allies as the Imperium using the Tyranid rivaliry to their advantage but they do arguably work togheter. Excuse the seeming insecurity in the reply, spoilers below for clarifications

Spoiler:

Cain uses a psyker to broadcast a piece of a rival hive fleets ships brain on a huge scale, enough to distrupt the synapse links of the targeted hive fleet and thus making them unorgonised and bringing victory to the Imperium

Other then that the Tyranids can't really suffer losses so any biological enemy would be simply a time investment. Any dead Tyranid or dead adversary can simply be recycled into more bio mass, making the notion of allying pointless. Note the use of "biological enemy", because this is not true vs deamons or necrons. If Tyranids where to make a temporary alliance it'd probably be against Necron, deamons or other tyranids.

That story is nonsensical. There is no such thing as a rival hive fleet. There isn't even really such a thing as a hive fleet. Hive fleet is a classification by the imperium to track various large clusters of tyranid ships. All tyranid organisms are extensions of a single hive mind.

As for allies, the Tyranids allying with another race in 40k would be like space marines allying with sheep, pigs, and cattle. The other races are not people to the nids. They are food.

Genestealer Cults are the exception because they are a tool the Nids use. They allow them to exist because they are helpful and then they get eaten and sucked back up into the hive ships like everything else when the rest of the fighting is done.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Nerak wrote:
Actually it has happened (sort of) in one of the the Cain books. A Tyranid ship from a hive fleet kind of allies with the humans against Tyranids from a diffrent fleet. It's not so much allies as the Imperium using the Tyranid rivaliry to their advantage but they do arguably work togheter. Excuse the seeming insecurity in the reply, spoilers below for clarifications

Spoiler:

Cain uses a psyker to broadcast a piece of a rival hive fleets ships brain on a huge scale, enough to distrupt the synapse links of the targeted hive fleet and thus making them unorgonised and bringing victory to the Imperium

Other then that the Tyranids can't really suffer losses so any biological enemy would be simply a time investment. Any dead Tyranid or dead adversary can simply be recycled into more bio mass, making the notion of allying pointless. Note the use of "biological enemy", because this is not true vs deamons or necrons. If Tyranids where to make a temporary alliance it'd probably be against Necron, deamons or other tyranids.

That story is nonsensical. There is no such thing as a rival hive fleet. There isn't even really such a thing as a hive fleet. Hive fleet is a classification by the imperium to track various large clusters of tyranid ships. All tyranid organisms are extensions of a single hive mind.

As for allies, the Tyranids allying with another race in 40k would be like space marines allying with sheep, pigs, and cattle. The other races are not people to the nids. They are food.

Genestealer Cults are the exception because they are a tool the Nids use. They allow them to exist because they are helpful and then they get eaten and sucked back up into the hive ships like everything else when the rest of the fighting is done.

There have been a couple of stories of hive fleets attacking each other.. and even 'civil' war type scenarios. Where the Hive Queen gets killed, and several 'young' queens awaken on mature Hive Ships.. Which in itself raises the question is the Hivemind the Queens or a single omnipresent mind

GodDamUser wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 Nerak wrote:
Actually it has happened (sort of) in one of the the Cain books. A Tyranid ship from a hive fleet kind of allies with the humans against Tyranids from a diffrent fleet. It's not so much allies as the Imperium using the Tyranid rivaliry to their advantage but they do arguably work togheter. Excuse the seeming insecurity in the reply, spoilers below for clarifications

Spoiler:

Cain uses a psyker to broadcast a piece of a rival hive fleets ships brain on a huge scale, enough to distrupt the synapse links of the targeted hive fleet and thus making them unorgonised and bringing victory to the Imperium

Other then that the Tyranids can't really suffer losses so any biological enemy would be simply a time investment. Any dead Tyranid or dead adversary can simply be recycled into more bio mass, making the notion of allying pointless. Note the use of "biological enemy", because this is not true vs deamons or necrons. If Tyranids where to make a temporary alliance it'd probably be against Necron, deamons or other tyranids.

That story is nonsensical. There is no such thing as a rival hive fleet. There isn't even really such a thing as a hive fleet. Hive fleet is a classification by the imperium to track various large clusters of tyranid ships. All tyranid organisms are extensions of a single hive mind.

As for allies, the Tyranids allying with another race in 40k would be like space marines allying with sheep, pigs, and cattle. The other races are not people to the nids. They are food.

Genestealer Cults are the exception because they are a tool the Nids use. They allow them to exist because they are helpful and then they get eaten and sucked back up into the hive ships like everything else when the rest of the fighting is done.

There have been a couple of stories of hive fleets attacking each other.. and even 'civil' war type scenarios. Where the Hive Queen gets killed, and several 'young' queens awaken on mature Hive Ships.. Which in itself raises the question is the Hivemind the Queens or a single omnipresent mind

The Hive Mind is an omnipresent mind but every single creature is bestowed with instincts to help further the task at hand when the Hive Mind isn't micromanaging everything. Norn Queens are developed with instinctive "Death Knells" that awaken several other queens, ensuring that even in the even of multiple Hive Ship fatalities, there's always a queen. The Queen is a massive birthing factory and as such, the most vital component of the Hive and so has the strongest connection to the Hive Mind to better defend itself.

 Deadshot wrote:
The Hive Mind is an omnipresent mind but every single creature is bestowed with instincts to help further the task at hand when the Hive Mind isn't micromanaging everything. Norn Queens are developed with instinctive "Death Knells" that awaken several other queens, ensuring that even in the even of multiple Hive Ship fatalities, there's always a queen. The Queen is a massive birthing factory and as such, the most vital component of the Hive and so has the strongest connection to the Hive Mind to better defend itself.

See the more I re-go over the Tyranid Fluff and such

The more I am thinking that each Hive is its own Hivemind.. with the Queens being the centre of it. Which does explain why Tyranids will attack each other, the various tactics, and genetic variations

It also works with the various 'motives' for Tyranids.. with the these are the initial Tendrils of the Race.. and the possibility that these are running from something bigger.. which is a supermassive Hivefleet