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Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Beardedragon wrote:
Can someone explain to me what the role for the Gunwagon is when we have a kannon wagon that gets free big shoota upgrades? Going Da boomer is pretty identical to a kannonwagon now.. and its not as good as a kannon wagon if you do that id say.

Granted they are still free that is.


The simple answer is that FW books are not written to form a coherent army or maintain internal/external balance, but to provide rules for premium models they sell.

There is no reasoning outside of that. Just use the kannonwagon.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in gb
Stabbin' Skarboy





crewe

 Tomsug wrote:
Interesting, Pyromaniacs is not available on KBB, the most pyromaniac unit in out codex…


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Blackie wrote:
Right, PiñaColada. I double checked, what is odd is that the Blitza-Bommer can be Boomboyz but none of the weapons is equipped with can get the AP bonus. Am I missing something?


You' re right This should be added to the list of bugs


Lore wise the most pyromanically unit should be the Boomdakka

How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?  
   
Made in gb
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

dakk jet

6 super shootas Dakka 6/4 = 36/24 shots

with more dakka upgrade 33% chance of (36/26)x2=72/48 dakka shots or even 16% chance of (36/26 x3) = 108/78 dakka shots

this must be broken?

i have to keep re reading the more dakka upgrade - it says 1 additional attack with each dakka weapon.

i thought it said 1 additional shot first time a read it, but it says 1 additional attack per dakka weapon, thats crazy powerful?

SMASH  
   
Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




Danmark

 kingbbobb wrote:
dakk jet

6 super shootas Dakka 6/4 = 36/24 shots

with more dakka upgrade 33% chance of (36/26)x2=72/48 dakka shots or even 16% chance of (36/26 x3) = 108/78 dakka shots

this must be broken?

i have to keep re reading the more dakka upgrade - it says 1 additional attack with each dakka weapon.

i thought it said 1 additional shot first time a read it, but it says 1 additional attack per dakka weapon, thats crazy powerful?


good on vehicles with many smaller dakka weapons like the dakkajet yes.

But its not guaranteed to even go off.

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Gunwagon never really had a place except for when DaBooma initially showed up because it allowed 4D6 shots, which was kinda weird.

Kannonwagon is an older sculpt but its not an ancient one thats falling apart so odds are the kannonwagon wont go away anytime soon either. And FW almost never gets cost adjustments unless its causing a problem.

Quite frankly its more odd that the Gunwagon is even a thing, or for that matter the Bonebreaka. Neither have ever been a thing before and suddenly we have 2 BW variants? odd indeed

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/31 14:01:37


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




They were around in 8th at he least. Probably 7th as well, I'd have to dig out the older codex.

It's a dip around the Rule of Three, currently.

If anyone was a mad-enough lad, they could use three Bonebreakas, and three Gunwagons, and just T8 the board with dakka and Deffrollas.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 kingbbobb wrote:
dakk jet

6 super shootas Dakka 6/4 = 36/24 shots

with more dakka upgrade 33% chance of (36/26)x2=72/48 dakka shots or even 16% chance of (36/26 x3) = 108/78 dakka shots

this must be broken?

i have to keep re reading the more dakka upgrade - it says 1 additional attack with each dakka weapon.

i thought it said 1 additional shot first time a read it, but it says 1 additional attack per dakka weapon, thats crazy powerful?


Read the core rulebook, you are confusing a unit being selected to shoot with a unit making an attack. When a unit is selected to shoot and chooses what weapon(s) to make attacks with, they make a number of attacks equal to the number written on that weapon's profile after its type. So a rule which modifies the number of attacks a unit makes with a particular ranged weapon is just modifying the number on their weapon profile's type.

Anyone else annoyed that the closest thing to a CC specialist buggy (the Skrapjet) is now worse in CC than two other buggies?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/31 14:48:50


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 kingbbobb wrote:
dakk jet

6 super shootas Dakka 6/4 = 36/24 shots

with more dakka upgrade 33% chance of (36/26)x2=72/48 dakka shots or even 16% chance of (36/26 x3) = 108/78 dakka shots

this must be broken?

i have to keep re reading the more dakka upgrade - it says 1 additional attack with each dakka weapon.

i thought it said 1 additional shot first time a read it, but it says 1 additional attack per dakka weapon, thats crazy powerful?


1 attack = 1 shot.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






You can have ap3 kommandoez.
Make them specialists: sneaky gitz, give them a distraction grot.
Now they have a1 choppaz +1 for sneaky gitz +1 for their own ability.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Put 15 in a wagon and you're in for the kill. Not too expensive and yet they chop stuff nice.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/31 15:30:04


 
   
Made in gb
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

Madjob wrote:
 kingbbobb wrote:
dakk jet

6 super shootas Dakka 6/4 = 36/24 shots

with more dakka upgrade 33% chance of (36/26)x2=72/48 dakka shots or even 16% chance of (36/26 x3) = 108/78 dakka shots

this must be broken?

i have to keep re reading the more dakka upgrade - it says 1 additional attack with each dakka weapon.

i thought it said 1 additional shot first time a read it, but it says 1 additional attack per dakka weapon, thats crazy powerful?


Read the core rulebook, you are confusing a unit being selected to shoot with a unit making an attack. When a unit is selected to shoot and chooses what weapon(s) to make attacks with, they make a number of attacks equal to the number written on that weapon's profile after its type. So a rule which modifies the number of attacks a unit makes with a particular ranged weapon is just modifying the number on their weapon profile's type.

Anyone else annoyed that the closest thing to a CC specialist buggy (the Skrapjet) is now worse in CC than two other buggies?


That probably is what they meant to do, but it didn't sound to me like it is modifying the weapons profile.



Well is it really so hard for them to just say "add +1 to the weapons attack characteristic of all Dakka weapons"



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/31 15:40:25


SMASH  
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

this is GW were talking about, yes its very hard for them to say concise, clear rules.

Theres no way they actually intended it to get essentially double or triple the shots. Unless that kustomjob was like 150pts that is.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/31 16:01:00


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Sorry, but the rules are very clear and absolutely water-tight in that regard. One shot is one attack, adding an attack means adding one shot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wakshaani wrote:
They were around in 8th at he least. Probably 7th as well, I'd have to dig out the older codex.


8th edition's codex was the first time they were ever featured as varients of the battlewagon. Gunwagons could be found in old FW books, being a completely different model, and bonebreakas didn't exist outside of epic.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/31 16:03:48


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in hk
Regular Dakkanaut




Hong Kong

 koooaei wrote:
You can have ap3 kommandoez.
Make them specialists: sneaky gitz, give them a distraction grot.
Now they have a1 choppaz +1 for sneaky gitz +1 for their own ability.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Put 15 in a wagon and you're in for the kill. Not too expensive and yet they chop stuff nice.


"+1 for their own ability". you mean Throat Slittas ? nahh, that's +1 on the wound roll, not the AP.
Which is still very good...
   
Made in us
Steadfast Grey Hunter





Madjob wrote:
Anyone else annoyed that the closest thing to a CC specialist buggy (the Skrapjet) is now worse in CC than two other buggies?

How did you come to that reckoning?

For clarity, the buggies are:
Boomdakka Snazzwagon - no CC weapon
Kustom Boosta Blasta - spiked ram, no CC weapon
Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy - S7 AP-2 D2
Shockjump Dragsta - S7 Ap-2 D2
Megatrakk Scrapjet - spiked ram plus S8 Ap-2 Dd3

The scrapjet has a very important str boost (Str 8 is very important breakpoint, giving bonuses against T7 and T8 vehicles, T4 infantry, and getting over the Ramshackle rule in the mirror), and gets both CC weapon and ram ability. All buggies hit on 4s and have 4 attacks. It seems like you're basing your argument entirely on the fact that the scrapjet's CC weapon is d3 damage instead of 2 damage flat, when there are other concrete benefits the model has over its competitors. Plus, the prevalence of -1 damage effects means that having that 1 in 3 chance of actually doing extra damage is, potentially, a boon.

I'm genuinely curious why you hold that opinion.
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






XC18 wrote:
 koooaei wrote:
You can have ap3 kommandoez.
Make them specialists: sneaky gitz, give them a distraction grot.
Now they have a1 choppaz +1 for sneaky gitz +1 for their own ability.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Put 15 in a wagon and you're in for the kill. Not too expensive and yet they chop stuff nice.


"+1 for their own ability". you mean Throat Slittas ? nahh, that's +1 on the wound roll, not the AP.
Which is still very good...


Oh, my bad. Well, than ap2 +1 to wound kommandoez. Now if it's any better than simply running goffs...
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




ryzouken wrote:
Madjob wrote:
Anyone else annoyed that the closest thing to a CC specialist buggy (the Skrapjet) is now worse in CC than two other buggies?

How did you come to that reckoning?

For clarity, the buggies are:
Boomdakka Snazzwagon - no CC weapon
Kustom Boosta Blasta - spiked ram, no CC weapon
Rukkatrukk Squigbuggy - S7 AP-2 D2
Shockjump Dragsta - S7 Ap-2 D2
Megatrakk Scrapjet - spiked ram plus S8 Ap-2 Dd3

The scrapjet has a very important str boost (Str 8 is very important breakpoint, giving bonuses against T7 and T8 vehicles, T4 infantry, and getting over the Ramshackle rule in the mirror), and gets both CC weapon and ram ability. All buggies hit on 4s and have 4 attacks. It seems like you're basing your argument entirely on the fact that the scrapjet's CC weapon is d3 damage instead of 2 damage flat, when there are other concrete benefits the model has over its competitors. Plus, the prevalence of -1 damage effects means that having that 1 in 3 chance of actually doing extra damage is, potentially, a boon.

I'm genuinely curious why you hold that opinion.


You're being too forgiving of Dd3. I wouldn't be charging something that's going to have an easy time ignoring D2, and there's plenty of multi-wound targets that don't have damage reduction where S7 is the same as S8.
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






You can't be serious blaming buggies for anything right now. To be honest, I think they're undercosted for how amazing they are.
   
Made in es
Gangly Grot Rebel




Buggies and bikes re far more overpowered than squiggs and make us nearly invincible against all but 4 or 5 armies of the whole game. Anyone who is not capable of having a lot of F8 antitank weapons without having a useless list has 0 chance against us.

Super high mobility shooting tanky platforms undercosted and easy to spam that will destroy the frontend of the opponent for a absurdly strong charge at turn 2 or 3. And better to not try to tank them in the middle of the board with Sacrosants/bladeguards/mortarion bubble, because 6 squighogs with the aura in a smasha squig and the +1 to hit of warboss just rape them in 1 turn.

Stop complaining. You can complain about throwing all your greentide into trash, but not about our vehicles

Orks 5000p 
   
Made in us
Steadfast Grey Hunter





I'm going to assume those posts about complaining aren't aimed at my head as my post was a simple comparison between types of buggies, not a criticism of them in general. (My own ork army is literally oops all buggies and bikes because green tide doesn't appeal to me in much the same way as my guard army is scions.) Buggies are awesome. Full stop.

On the megatrak scrapjet: I understand that conventional wisdom holds that D2 is better than Dd3. I don't think that difference is so major as to overshadow the S8 and mortal wound output of the scrapjet.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






Most of them average 2 dead MEQ a turn for about 90 points if you do the math. I don't know that the buggies are "overpowered."

I realize that the Rukkatrukk is ignore LOS, and blast, and that's cool because they're useful in TAC. But the shooting is literally an average of 2 wounds at 18" against a T4/3+ at D2. So 3 of them would be able to wipe a combat squad at 18".

Most of the other buggies work out to about the same, 2 wounds at 2 damage against T4/3+.

Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






ryzouken wrote:
I'm going to assume those posts about complaining aren't aimed at my head as my post was a simple comparison between types of buggies, not a criticism of them in general. (My own ork army is literally oops all buggies and bikes because green tide doesn't appeal to me in much the same way as my guard army is scions.) Buggies are awesome. Full stop.

On the megatrak scrapjet: I understand that conventional wisdom holds that D2 is better than Dd3. I don't think that difference is so major as to overshadow the S8 and mortal wound output of the scrapjet.


Sadly, d3 is better now. Cause of the abundance of -1 damage. At least you have a 1/3 chance to "crit".
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






So I had my first try out of a 2k list vs a two player team of SoB and Harlequins (we didn't want to do a three way game since it never works out) and HOO boy, yup, our buggies and vehicles are pushed to move. I was skeptical due to the loss of our kustom jobs but I think the stats boosts for a lot of our weapons (dakkajet, wazbom, and Scrapjets were MVP's) and even the CC stats of the sawblades on the shokkjump dragsta did a lot more than I expected. I ended up borderline tabling them by T3 before they conceded, they didn't have enough S8 weaponry (and sadly the Harlie player rolled like 4 2's to wound for his fusion pistol hit squad). to punch through the sheer number of vehicles in my list since I also got first turn and one-shot the SoB Exorcist so he wouldn't be able to retaliate. The SoB player in particular was really upset that his HB were basically downgraded back to their OG version and his Mortifiers struggled to handle them, even Celestine was neutered heavily thanks to Ramshackle. I think the SoB player got a little traumatised so I felt bad lol.

Having Kommandos do a pre-game scout deployment also makes it really useful to get that early Retrieve Octarius Data and set up for Engage on All Fronts even more easier than it should be.

Honestly, I feel like buggy lists are going to gatekeep lists that don't pack S8 and higher weapons in enough quantities. I wouldn't expect our cheap prices for our buggies to last too long.

Spoiler:
Ork Buggy SpeedWAAAGH! 2000 point list:

Total CP: 12 - 4 = 8 CP

Ork Deffskullz Outrider Detachment (-3CP) - 1,240

HQ - 115

Warboss on Warbike with Killa Klaw
Big Boss WL Trait: Brutal but Kunnin (-1CP) - 115

Troops - 90

10 Trukk Boyz Specialists, Nob with Two Choppas - 90

Fast Attack - 520

Mega Trakk Scrapjet - 90

Mega Trakk Scrapjet - 90

Mega Trakk Scrapjet - 90

Kustom Boosta Blasta - 80

Kustom Boosta Blasta - 80

Shokkdrump Dragsta - 90

Flyers - 325

Dakkajet with 6 Supa Shootas, More Dakka - 135

Wazbom Blastajet with two Tellyport Mega-Blasta, Blasta-Jet Forcefield - 210

Elites - 120

5 Kommandos, Nob with Power Klaw - 55

6 Kommandos, Nob with Power Klaw - 65

Dedicated Transports - 70

Trukk - 70

Ork Deffskullz Patrol Detachment - 755

HQ - 120

Deffkilla Wartrike, WL Trait: Opportunist - 120

Troops - 90

10 Ork Trukk Boyz Specialists, Nob with Two Choppas - 90

Elites - 65

6 Kommandos, Nob with PK - 65

Fast Attack - 240

Shokkjump Dragsta - 90

3 Deffkoptas - 150

Heavy Support - 170

2 x Deff Dread with 4 Klaws - 85

Dedicated Transports - 70

Trukk - 70

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 05:03:42


 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Where can I read about ictsrius data - is it something added to rulebook missions? I haven't followed what's going on for the last 1.5 years or so.
   
Made in cz
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Prague

Have you anybody play the buggies in units of 3 or only “da old way” one unit = one buggy?

Any experience with bigger unit?

9000pt and one Ad Mech T-shirt 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

Haven't tried the squadron yet, but I only see downsides in playing anything different than solo buggies. I can get over with the impractical movement of multiple large bases but a squadron is simply too vulnerable to high quality firepower. No more overkilling a single model and if a model is in melta range the entire unit is. Eradicators can double tap against a squadron, but can't kill more than single model against a solo unit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 08:07:58



 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Same here. Essentially I pay 1 CP (patrol detachment -> outrider) to bring as many solo buggies as I wish.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




Danmark

So when you do outrider detatchment, what klan do you go for, with solo buggies?

Im unsure if i should run deathskulls with the nerfs they had, so i thought maybe i should go for Freebootas instead?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 10:00:57


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Is there a nice breakdown of the changes from the previous codex to this one? Preferably one that focus on big picture and less details?

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

Beardedragon wrote:
So when you do outrider detatchment, what klan do you go for, with solo buggies?

Im unsure if i should run deathskulls with the nerfs they had, so i thought maybe i should go for Freebootas instead?


I'm leaning towards Bad Moons, time to abandon my beloved Deathskulls. Better range and free AP-1 on 6s which is nice on weapons with high rate of fire. Bikes and scrapjets should benefit a lot from this klan. Dedicated stratagem to get double hits is also nice. Big Krumpaz and Pyromaniacs upgrades for Meganobz and Burnaboyz.

Freebootas are also legit. I just don't like the klan mechanics but it's certainly a powerful klan. Deathskulls right now is more oriented on spamming Obj Sec specialists.


 
   
Made in es
Gangly Grot Rebel




+1 With @Blackie.

DeathSkulls is for spam of MSU Kommandos and Stormboyz rerolling the Klaw, trying to steal Objectives and stuff.

I'm going Bad Moons, as Freebooters is, for me, better at casual games but useless against good players because they will know how it works and won't let you gain the +1 for all your army easier, you'll have it only for few units.

Bad moons sinergize extremely well with Speedwaagh and make our Dakkajets/Bikes far better, making the stacks of buffs a nightmare for high armoured teams (AdMech, SM, sisters). I think it is the only decent synergy and buffstacking worth, tbh.

I removed from my list the 3 deffkoptas as, I think, they will die after shooting. I added a Wazbom Blastajet together with the Dakkajet as I was looking for something more antitank.

So, half my army (1050pt) are -1 to hit and some invul. I've got Defkilla with Cloud stratagem onto KBB and Scrapjet and then Dakkajet with Wazboom. I've got 2 traktor kannons in my deployment zone (I think they are not in danger with all the threats I've got on the board) and then 9 bikes with passive -1. Then 1000pt of Squig Goffs with a KillRig more for distraction carnifex, as my real damage comes from Bikes at distance and Squighogs at melee.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 10:56:36


Orks 5000p 
   
 
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