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So I run a LOT of berzerkers when I play, they're probably my favourite unit bar kharn. Since I have this many, I asked in store about them and received some tit bits
'7 attacks each, 4+ armour and 5-6 movement, probably some charge bonuses'

I cannot confirm it, but when the faction focus csm came out, it said they were King in combat, so 7 is likely.
Nice.

That sounds like complete hogwash tbh.

...

They will get charge bonuses

Being kings of combat means they can pile in and attack in movement phase.

Complete rubbish! Clearly they'll have 8s across the board and be 888pts each... Cos fluff.

7 attacks? No way...

I dunno, maybe that's a bit overkill but I'm fine with it

Also just realised probably posted this is the wrong place
Whoops

It's not just the attacks (which are pretty ludicrous). The have power armour and always had power armour and that has always been a 3+ and still is by the looks of it. Why on earth would they suddenly be rocking a 4+ save? And there is no way in hell they will be moving 5 inches, if anything they will be faster than 6. They'll likely be 6, but there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that they will be less than that.

The only possibility for those number to make even a lick of sense is that they get a 4+ invuln in CC like wyches and charge 6+d6.
And even then the 7 attacks thing is just NOT happening....unless the guy meant they'd have like 3 attacks on the charge and can charge in the enemy movement or some such.
But yea, this can't even be called wishlisting when those stats actually make them worse than before (bar having more attacks than frigging kharn)

Umm 7 attacks I dont think so. 4+ armor heh no. 5-6? Nooooo. They will probably have a 7" move they will have 2 base attacks and a 3+ because power armor. Chain axes will probably have the same bonus Chain swords (+1 attack per hit) and will probably have a slightly better AP value.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
They will probably have a 7" move they will have 2 base attacks and a 3+ because power armor. Chain axes will probably have the same bonus Chain swords (+1 attack per hit) and will probably have a slightly better AP value.

I think if you are right Berzerkers might actually be playable in 8th depending on points cost and whatever Mark of Khorne will do. Even in 7th they would have been okay if Chainaxes were either free standard wargear or were given the Rending USR. Fingers crossed that they will be good in 8th!

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
They will probably have a 7" move they will have 2 base attacks and a 3+ because power armor. Chain axes will probably have the same bonus Chain swords (+1 attack per hit) and will probably have a slightly better AP value.

I think if you are right Berzerkers might actually be playable in 8th depending on points cost and whatever Mark of Khorne will do. Even in 7th they would have been okay if Chainaxes were either free standard wargear or were given the Rending USR. Fingers crossed that they will be good in 8th!

Well as best I can tell they should be pretty good in 8th espically when it comes to pushing units off of objectives. They are probably going to be terrifying emough that pwople will not want to be in hand to hand combat with them.

As a lot of people disagree, I'll share my reasoning. Berzerkers die down after the first round of combat, they don't get 4 att, furious charge or hatred when fighting imperium so for them to be playable I think that they will slaughter whatever they are in combat with except stuff with 2+ armour. 4+ armour sounds uncertain but he said 'they'll be wearing berzerker armour so they can run faster' 7 attacks is probably including the buffs from chainswords and charge bonuses too. While 7 sounds like too much, he said that things ARE going to die faster to everything so they die to good rending shooting and they slaughter everything they run into in combat.

They'd still be 3+ save and it'd be stupid for them to have 7 attacks. I mean would it be 7 before or after the chain weapons? Going to just assume a chain axe would get +1 attack like chainswords would. I'd think they're more likely be at 2-4 attacks base. So perhaps around 5 would be more likely.

Let's make this more of an educated guess. Berzerkers are one of my favorite units in 40k and I have been wondering how they might work. GW has given us some indicators already.

The basic statline of a Space Marine is here. Mostly the same as what we have now but for leadership. I would assume this is the baseline for a Berzerker, and it may be modified in some way.

The write up of Close Combat weapons is here. We see 2 things:

- Power Axes are +1 S / AP -2
- Chainswords give +1 attack

The write up of Chaos Daemons faction is here. Khorne Daemons are characterized as such:

"Khorne blesses his devotees with an increased ability to reap skulls in his name. These models charge up the table taking skulls for the Skull Throne with Unstoppable Ferocity, which grants them a bonus attack and a point of Strength in combat if they charge or are charged. This turns already formidable melee units into killing machines!"

While the rules for CSM and CD have always been different, I think it's safe to assume a similar mechanic will exist for this one. We might be looking at the benefits of MoK.

The Faction Focus write up for CSMs is here. They do call out Berzerkers in this way:

"These guys are supposed to be feared for their brutality and combat prowess. Well, guess what? They will be – start fearing them now. Khorne will be pleased with this newest iteration of Berzerkers… very pleased! One of the key things that makes these blood-hungry units so good is the change to charging, as now they all get to swing first in a turn in which they charged. No more getting wiped out before they have the chance to hit anything."

It's not entirely clear from that article, except to say we will be pleased with the new mechanics. Let's just assume they will be better, in some way, than other troops.

From all that, here's my guess: 3 attacks on the charge, 2 attacks base, all at +1 S and AP -2 for the Chainaxe. Some kind of movement modifier for MoK to make sure they get into combat.

AP -2 is a bit much, chain axes shouldn't be power axes. My guess is chain axes are gonna be a hybrid of chain swords and power axes. +1 attack with +1 str.

A chainaxe is not a power axe. Other than that I think your post is a pretty good guess.
I would assume Chainaxes to have +1A (cause chainswords) and either AP-1 (cause AP4 in 7th ed.) OR S+1 (cause axes).

The change to plasma pistols should help them out a lot as well.

 fwlr wrote:
4+ armour sounds uncertain but he said 'they'll be wearing berzerker armour so they can run faster'

What the hell is berzerker armour!? Bezerkers have always worn power armour.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
A chainaxe is not a power axe. Other than that I think your post is a pretty good guess.
I would assume Chainaxes to have +1A (cause chainswords) and either AP-1 (cause AP4 in 7th ed.) OR S+1 (cause axes).

The change to plasma pistols should help them out a lot as well.

The reason I guessed +1S AP-2 was because of the description of force axes on the Rubric Marines datasheet. They are S+1 AP-2 with D3 damage.

It feels like there is a standard profile to how a 'special' axe works, and I couldn't see them taking away the S or AP modifiers. The chainsword adds an extra attack, and I thought they needed a way to make the axe not a chainsword.

Totally forgot about plasma pistols. Would love to see them get hand flamers but I guess that's too much to wish for. I have some of the 2nd edition models with Bolters, Glaives, Flamers and other weapons and would love to put them to use.

A force axe, however, is a power axe with force, at least in 7th edition.

That's not a bad guess, but yea, the chain axe won't be a power axe +1.
I could see a chain axe being +1S,+1A and AP-1, but likely you will have to pay for it, which now, is actually ok cuz that would be pretty good.
Blood for the blood god is likely what tehy explained in the daemons article. I have a feeling they will do away with marks and bless daemons and marines equally.
Aka, it's a mix of furious charge and rage, so no change here from before, just in a different format.
I can also see them getting a second base attack, but perhaps not. After all chosen are all bad ass vets, khorne berzerkers are either vets or newly created zerks no better than your average marine that just happens to be a bit better at CC due to khorne and training.

Now what I'm curious about is how they will implement their higher WS. I highly doubt they'll go to 2+, so maybe built in hatred? Though that could potentially clash with death to the false emperor.
Unless they translate that higher WS into more attacks.

In which case we'd end up with 3+ to hit, 2 attacks base, 3 with chain axes, 4 on the charge due to nu furious charge. At S6 due to furious and axe with Ap-1.
Ends up being slightly better than before but with a higher chance of actually making it into combat due to new core rules.
Same to hit, same attacks on the charge, but higher strength and sameish AP (better vs MEQ and up, worse vs 4+ and lower).
Except now they'd still have S5 and 3 attacks after charging.

Better than they were before, but they're not going to be the kings of CC. Although if they're priced right they could be pretty good for the price you pay.
The plasma pistols could be a neat touch if they're finally priced decently.

To the question of higher WS they will probably have some special rule that lets them reroll 1s on hit rolls which will give them around a 77% hit rate.

Right now chain swords give an extra attack for every hit landed. Assuming they keep this trend, and assuming 2 base attacks you will have 4 attacks on the charge. Hitting with 3 gets you 3 more rolls which you will get 2 of usually. So an average of 5 hits on the charge and max 8.

The axe will either get a S bump or AP bump but not both I would say S just because Khorne.

Or *shudders* they give them reroll to wound.

All in all 5 Zerkers could take out 5 marines in HtH in a single round of combat. God help the AM if you ever get close to them.

Berzerkers fight and pile in twice in the fight phase. This is being confirmed left and right. The chaos special rule also adds an additional attack for every 6 to hit rolled.

Time to make some more Berzerkers!

This thread belongs in the rumors section frankly, and even then this sounds like wishlisting.

 andysonic1 wrote:
Berzerkers fight and pile in twice in the fight phase. This is being confirmed left and right. The chaos special rule also adds an additional attack for every 6 to hit rolled.

Time to make some more Berzerkers!

By "being confirmed" what you mean to say that it's a spreading rumor on the internet- a place where news travels fast. To date no one has been able to offer any kind of source on it.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
This thread belongs in the rumors section frankly, and even then this sounds like wishlisting.

 andysonic1 wrote:
Berzerkers fight and pile in twice in the fight phase. This is being confirmed left and right. The chaos special rule also adds an additional attack for every 6 to hit rolled.

Time to make some more Berzerkers!

By "being confirmed" what you mean to say that it's a spreading rumor on the internet- a place where news travels fast. To date no one has been able to offer any kind of source on it.

It's confirmed, my dad works for Nintendo.

yo berzerkers are very very good

So the question is now do you take Chainswords or Chainaxes? Chainswords give you +1 attack and since we attack twice that is really 2 extra attacks at Strength 5. The axes give you +1 Strength and -1AP but against MEQ I would think the Chainswords would do better since you Wound on 3+ either way. Hopefully someone can math Hammer this out.

Take both. I think the Chainsword will be superior to the Pistol since the Zerker is S5. Then you can make your base attacks with the axe and your bonus attacks with the sword.

Can you choose to spilt your attacks with both weapons? So attack once with the Axe and then once with the sword to get an extra attack?

The way I understand it, is that you only need to equip a chain sword in order to get the bonus attack from it (and be in a fight obviously).
So take the axe and make all your attacks with the axe and then you still get to swing the sword due to the bonus attacks it generates (which must be made with the sword).
Ie, you either make 2 attacks with a sword and then gain a bonus attack with the sword, or 2 attacks with the axe and then two with the sword.
Meaning there is no reason to ever swing with the sword instead of the axe since you still keep the bonus attack.

Keeping the pistol means just using the sword for the two attacks, the third bonus attack would always be sword.
So you lose one S4 AP0 D1 attack when trading the pistol for the axe, but you replace two S5 AP0 D1 attacks with S6 Ap-1 D1.
The mix of higher AP and strength end ups doing slightly more damage than having a pistol.

The difference is marginal though. The pistols offer a little more flexibility since you can still shoot, but the axes will allow you to deal with T5 and up better.
Personally I'd just roll with the axes, I'd rather not shoot myself out of charge range. Besides, they're zerkers, chopping is what they do
Although 'd make an exception for plasma pistols. The overloaded shots are worth it.

straight from the leaks
16pts each in matched play
1pt for chain axes
7pts for a plasma pistol