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Not talking about games like Starcraft, or C&C, I'm talking games that are more simulations, like Combat Mission, Steel Beasts, Tacops, Decisive action, CMANO, Etc. Really enjoying CM so far, and I want to find more Wargames that place emphasis on realism. Most are super-niche though and you can't find any/only one or two reviews of them.

Wargame - European Escalation - (The first of the series, but gives you an idea of the gameplay of all of them) - 1980's cold war gone hot. - Latest new release is Steel Division - Normandy 1944.

I was thinking more along the lines of simulations. I have one of the Wargame games but never actually played it. I was thinking of grabbing Steel Division. How far in the realism scale is it? Like, is spotting/armor, weapons and such modeled accurately? One of the reasons I stopped playing RTS games is because I hated the rock-paper scissors element to them.

I would go right to Wargame Red Dragon which has active multiplayer for the Wargame series. Also Steel Division 44 had some issues last time I tried to play. Morale was so messed up all it took was artillery spam and jeeps moving into an area to cause mass route so it became a big game of artillery spam and then making one final push near the end. Destruction heavily favors axis right now but the game mode to conquer the map is better balanced.

Granted steel division is in beta but its close to launch as well.

Wargame has armor for all sides. Same with Steel Division. Wargame's AI is not so great, but steel division's Ai is actually really difficult if reports are to be believed once put on normal.

Wargame is a very complex game and it is a simulation and an rts at the same time of cold war era warfare it will break you and grind you underneath it if you play online so try find people to learn from. I myself never got all that good, but can pull a win off here and there.

I will likely play Steel Division once its finished and they tone down suppression.

Are you looking for a specific scale? Like operational level, theatre level, etc?

I really enjoyed Unity of Command (Operational level, Eastern Front, WWII), it is an excellent gateway wargame and doesn't require hours of time investment for a single map.
However it is detailed enough to get your teeth stuck into, especially the bigger maps.
You can also pick it and its expansions up for maybe a tenner? Not too pricey.

As for really heavy simulation, Gary Grigsby's 'War in the East' would be a better way to go. (Theatre level, Eastern Front, WWII). I haven't played it because it costs a lot but it has really good reviews and is done by a master of the art.

 Kroem wrote:
Are you looking for a specific scale? Like operational level, theatre level, etc?

I really enjoyed Unity of Command (Operational level, Eastern Front, WWII), it is an excellent gateway wargame and doesn't require hours of time investment for a single map.
However it is detailed enough to get your teeth stuck into, especially the bigger maps.
You can also pick it and its expansions up for maybe a tenner? Not too pricey.

As for really heavy simulation, Gary Grigsby's 'War in the East' would be a better way to go. (Theatre level, Eastern Front, WWII). I haven't played it because it costs a lot but it has really good reviews and is done by a master of the art.

You are understanding the kind of game I want moreso than the others. I didn't think the grigsby games were sims, but I was thinking about getting one. Not really interested in Unity of Command, I would prefer something extremely detailed and I don't mind if it's expensive as long as it's replayable. I really like the Combat Mission games I have(Black Sea and Final Blitzkrieg), but I think the only other games on that scale are Graviteams games. I'm just looking for detail-heavy simulations, and I figured that more people on here would be more into those kinds of games. It's kind of a pain in the ass to find them all because they seem to be super-niche, and the ones I do find have one,two, or no reviews. Like Point of Attack. Only found maybe two reviews for it, and they are outdated.

Check out HPS Simulations. I have several of their titles sandlike them all.

http://www.hpssims.com

POA2 (modern) has lots of detail behind it (it was developed initially for the military). I actually have the gov't version and bought the civilian version for home use. The WW2 version, Tigers Unleashed is good too.

Their Future Force is another designed for the military. Looks cool though I don't have it.

I have a couple of their naval games (Midway and Guadalcanal) and like both. Their Panzer and Modern Campaign series are all good, as is the Squad Battle series.

Shrapnel Games has some cool stuff too. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Our_Games/Our_Games.html I have BCT Commander, The Star and Crescent, and Air Assault Task Force and ATF. Somewhat of a learning curve, but cool games. Their Steel Panthers modern and WW2 are a ton of fun, and allow all kinds of scenario generation.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cerebrate64 wrote:
Not talking about games like Starcraft, or C&C, I'm talking games that are more simulations, like Combat Mission, Steel Beasts, Tacops, Decisive action, CMANO, Etc. Really enjoying CM so far, and I want to find more Wargames that place emphasis on realism. Most are super-niche though and you can't find any/only one or two reviews of them.

Just realized you're already familiar with HPS if you have Decisive Action (I have that one too). I also have TACOPS, including the military version. That is a fun game. If you like TACOPS, POA2 and Tigers Unleashed are kind of similar in play style and scale though more detailed.

 CptJake wrote:
Check out HPS Simulations. I have several of their titles sandlike them all.

http://www.hpssims.com

POA2 (modern) has lots of detail behind it (it was developed initially for the military). I actually have the gov't version and bought the civilian version for home use. The WW2 version, Tigers Unleashed is good too.

Their Future Force is another designed for the military. Looks cool though I don't have it.

I have a couple of their naval games (Midway and Guadalcanal) and like both. Their Panzer and Modern Campaign series are all good, as is the Squad Battle series.

Shrapnel Games has some cool stuff too. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Our_Games/Our_Games.html I have BCT Commander, The Star and Crescent, and Air Assault Task Force and ATF. Somewhat of a learning curve, but cool games. Their Steel Panthers modern and WW2 are a ton of fun, and allow all kinds of scenario generation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cerebrate64 wrote:
Not talking about games like Starcraft, or C&C, I'm talking games that are more simulations, like Combat Mission, Steel Beasts, Tacops, Decisive action, CMANO, Etc. Really enjoying CM so far, and I want to find more Wargames that place emphasis on realism. Most are super-niche though and you can't find any/only one or two reviews of them.

Just realized you're already familiar with HPS if you have Decisive Action (I have that one too). I also have TACOPS, including the military version. That is a fun game. If you like TACOPS, POA2 and Tigers Unleashed are kind of similar in play style and scale though more detailed.

Yeah, you get it. I don't have Decisive action or any of their sims. I've never been in the military, and I don't want to be (I don't think I could actually shoot someone IRL unless I was absolutely forced to for my/others defense), I just want something that comes to as close to reality (or as far as I can tell)as possible while still being fun. I looked at some of the HP sims stuff, but again there aren't any reviews for most of it, and I don't mind spending money on things as long as they have the quality to match the price. Wanted to see if anyone else bought any of their products and could confirm that they are good. I read that POA2 wasn't even finished yet. I'll have to check out Tigers Unleashed. I played the demo of TACOPS and I liked it, but it seemed like a 2d version of Combat Mission with more units.Much appreciated, thank you.

Matrix Games has some good stuff too: http://www.matrixgames.com/products/?p=24&a=3


I have Flashpoint Germany (new version seems to be Flashpoint Campaigns) and Close Combat: Modern Tactics as well as some of the WW2 Close Combat games. Their new game, Afghanistan '11 is likely to be my next computer game purchase. Looks fantastic.


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Decisive Action is cool, but is REALLY intensive from a staff/battlefield functional area perspective. You MUST know logistics and how to synchronize ISR and fires with maneuver. They use it at Leavenworth to train officers.

Yeah, Afghanastan 11 looks neat. I'm going to download the demo for BCT Commander, and I'm going to look at POA some more. I have one of the Close Combat games, didn't even know there was a modern warfare one , but I like CM a lot more.

The Modern Close Combat is okay. Unless they've added to it since I got it it could have used more scenarios, and the ranges for modern weapons made it even deadlier than the WW2 version, but it was fun.

BCT commander is (I think) one of the oldest in that line. It does have a learning curve and some of the newer games are a bit easier to grasp (but they may have updated BCT commander to the newer standards).

I have to admit a bias to POA2. I actually had the old POA and the WW2 versions Panthers in the Shadows and Tigers in the Mist which were some of my favorite games MANY years ago. The newer versions are leaps and bounds ahead of them in interface and details, but do take some playing with.

I think I saw a modern Combat Mission type game, but can't recall what it was called or what company published it. I never got it as initial release was pretty buggy from what I read. I did enjoy the first couple Combat Mission games though. Reminded me a lot of a WW2 minis game with animation and sounds.

There are two modern era CM games. There's Shock Force and Black Sea, Black Sea being the newer one. Never played SF, I have Final Blitzkrieg and Black Sea . I like them, but they are a bit awkward to play and there are a few quirks like the fact that even though tanks and such move slower through woods, they move through trees(literally) instead of running them over, or going around, but they are physically there and will block LOS and bullets. So I'm pretty sure that's an intentional design choice, but it's probably the one thing that bothers me the most about it.They did just update the game engine for all the more recent games, but the improvements seem minimal.

Did they ever fix POA2? I read some old posts from forums stating that the game felt unfinished and had issues, and it doesn't seem like they have an update history anywhere on Hps' website.

http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/Updates/up_TSS/up_TSS.asp

July 14 most recent updates. I vaguely remember Scott or John sending me a new Gov't disc more recently though. They may have a newer version they have not posted.

Can't beleive I didn't see that. Thank you.

If you don't mind it being on a bit larger scale, Steel Panthers is pretty amazing.

 Frankenberry wrote:
If you don't mind it being on a bit larger scale, Steel Panthers is pretty amazing.

I was looking at it. Problem is, is they want 50 bucks for a 17 year old game. I've decided I'm probably going to get one of the Grigsby games,CMANO, Tigers on the Hunt, or just another Combat Mission. I was extremely interested in POA2 and Tigers Unleashed but neither one of them seem to have even a small community of players, and I don't want to buy and learn something with only a few scenarios, then not be able to play it with anyone. Tigers on the Hunt looks awesome, but I'm unfamiliar with Advanced Squad Leader, which it apparently is based off of.I'm annoyed that they don't offer a demo for War in the East/West, I'm worried that it will basically be a stat heavy Risk (I hate Risk) that is a simple game that's only artificially more complex by having a bunch of unit stats. One of the nice things about CM is that it's easy to get a multiplayer game with someone. Right now I'm doing PBEM with some European dude. I'm actually surprised that more people on here aren't into those kinds of games.

My strategy is to listen to the '3 Moves Ahead' podcast episode on the Idle Thumbs network before buying any expensive Wargame haha!

Have you looked in the ARMA series?

Arma's cool, but vanilla multiplayer is dead. If you want to play you have to go on one of the boring Wasteland servers.

 Swastakowey wrote:

Cerebrate64 wrote:
Not talking about games like Starcraft, or C&C, I'm talking games that are more simulations, like Combat Mission, Steel Beasts, Tacops, Decisive action, CMANO, Etc. Really enjoying CM so far, and I want to find more Wargames that place emphasis on realism. Most are super-niche though and you can't find any/only one or two reviews of them.

I play Combat mission (mainly focus on the WW2 titles). Normandy and Fortress Italy are my favourite of the 2. The game is amazing when playing an email game vs another human.

Do you play Combat Mission or are you after general info? because id be keen to set up a hotseat game, we can just do a few turns a day depending on schedule.

I actually play CM. I found it, liked it, and that's why I was looking for more wargames. I have Final Blitzkrieg and Black sea, and I will eventually get Normandy. If you have either of those too, I would love to play sometime.

 Swastakowey wrote:

Cerebrate64 wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

Cerebrate64 wrote:
Not talking about games like Starcraft, or C&C, I'm talking games that are more simulations, like Combat Mission, Steel Beasts, Tacops, Decisive action, CMANO, Etc. Really enjoying CM so far, and I want to find more Wargames that place emphasis on realism. Most are super-niche though and you can't find any/only one or two reviews of them.

I play Combat mission (mainly focus on the WW2 titles). Normandy and Fortress Italy are my favourite of the 2. The game is amazing when playing an email game vs another human.

Do you play Combat Mission or are you after general info? because id be keen to set up a hotseat game, we can just do a few turns a day depending on schedule.

I actually play CM. I found it, liked it, and that's why I was looking for more wargames. I have Final Blitzkrieg and Black sea, and I will eventually get Normandy. If you have either of those too, I would love to play sometime.

Final Blitzkrieg is the one I dont have. I kinda want to finish with Red Thunder before I move on to Final Blitzkrieg. I will try PM you when I get it if I remember.

I could also PM you when I get Normandy. I'm going to be getting it as soon as I can afford to get the bundle.