Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/21/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-tyranids/

Oh boy i like it

I was afraid GW would make Nids run when they lose in combat. Genstealer are viable again too. Can't wait to get the full rules for my Nids.

So, if something enters base contact with the Swarmlord it basically ceases to exist, right?

I mean, wow. He'll be chewing through tanks like butter.

 Robin5t wrote:
So, if something enters base contact with the Swarmlord it basically ceases to exist, right?

I mean, wow. He'll be chewing through tanks like butter.

As it should be. I have no problems with the Swarmlord being the most powerfull meele thing in all of 40k. Even more than Knights or small Titans. He is like the Ultra-Primarch Tyranid equivalent.

Looks pretty good. I'm not a fan of Synapse making you immune to Morale though. I thought the whole point of the new system was that nobody was immune to it. In fact, I seem to recall GW saying something to that effect when 8th was first revealed.

That's one scary mofo indeed lol.
Genestealers look like they can pull of T1 charges pretty handily too.
8 move, can charge after advancing, so 16 and then using the swarmlord ability to squeeze in another 8 for 24 inch before charging.
Basically nuking whatever they charge.

Slipspace wrote:
Looks pretty good. I'm not a fan of Synapse making you immune to Morale though. I thought the whole point of the new system was that nobody was immune to it. In fact, I seem to recall GW saying something to that effect when 8th was first revealed.

Tyranids have no free will so they can't run away. At least not when in synapse.

Strength higher than 6 for monstrous creatures!

Hive Commander is mean! (Basically what the Onslaught psychic power should have been all along)

Genestealers run + charge is nasty
5+ invulnerable save (That's not really as big a deal anymore because AP of standard weapons wouldn't bypass their armour anymore)
More attacks for 10+, + 1 to hit with a Brood lord (eesh!)

Slipspace wrote:
Looks pretty good. I'm not a fan of Synapse making you immune to Morale though. I thought the whole point of the new system was that nobody was immune to it. In fact, I seem to recall GW saying something to that effect when 8th was first revealed.

They are not completely immune, without synapse they become very vulnerable to morale.


And they also said that there will be few exceptions, Tyranids in synapse are one of those.

nordsturmking wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
Looks pretty good. I'm not a fan of Synapse making you immune to Morale though. I thought the whole point of the new system was that nobody was immune to it. In fact, I seem to recall GW saying something to that effect when 8th was first revealed.

Tyranids have no free will so they can't run away. At least not when in synapse.

And their LD will be trash on the little guys meaning that once synapse is removed so they'll then be devastated in short order (Like in the lore, no synapse= dead Tyranids)

Anyone who played AoS knew their would be situations where you could ignore morale. The being fearless in synapse range isn't really the buff though, not having instinctive behavior outside of synapse is the buff. The strategy to dealing with tyranid swarms remains the same, geek the synapse creatures, then inflict massive damage thru shooting which you get to nearly double thanks to morale.

Honestly, synapse granting Fearless is entirely reasonable.

I'm more worried about the 'nids sheer speed combined with how they are utter blenders in melee. Appropriate for the faction of course, but they are going to be difficult to address since they are traits that pretty much hard-counter an IG gunline (by getting there before it can shoot, and decimating it before it can fall back).

Flamethrowers will help by providing good overwatch of course. Getting first turn will also help a lot, since that might give me a chance to snipe out the Swarmlord with AT and remove all his buffs before the 'nid player can use them.

What's going to be really difficult is planning for scenarios where I've got second turn vs nids, since that will limit my ability to preemptively snipe problem units, and I won't be able to deploy my screening units as far forward so I'll have less room for falling back. Though I guess if I have a list that can be flexible about reserves, maybe I could just reserve and outflank a bunch of stuff when I get second turn.

Eh, I'm not seeing much reason take Hormagaunts over Stealers, except maybe as screening (of course, if the game doesn't do "intervening models" cover, that's out).

Genestealers look primed to take on most anything and everything. Even if they wound T8+ on 6s, that still triggers Rend. Combined with 4 attacks a pop in large units, and it could well be reasonable to see them attritioning down Knights by themselves.

Weird.

 ross-128 wrote:
Honestly, synapse granting Fearless is entirely reasonable.

I'm more worried about the 'nids sheer speed combined with how they are utter blenders in melee. Appropriate for the faction of course, but they are going to be difficult to address since they are traits that pretty much hard-counter an IG gunline (by getting there before it can shoot, and decimating it before it can fall back).

Flamethrowers will help by providing good overwatch of course. Getting first turn will also help a lot, since that might give me a chance to snipe out the Swarmlord with AT and remove all his buffs before the 'nid player can use them.

What's going to be really difficult is planning for scenarios where I've got second turn vs nids, since that will limit my ability to preemptively snipe problem units, and I won't be able to deploy my screening units as far forward so I'll have less room for falling back. Though I guess if I have a list that can be flexible about reserves, maybe I could just reserve and outflank a bunch of stuff when I get second turn.

Maybe this is an excuse to use Bullgryns and Ogryns at last?

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Eh, I'm not seeing much reason take Hormagaunts over Stealers, except maybe as screening (of course, if the game doesn't do "intervening models" cover, that's out).

Genestealers look primed to take on most anything and everything. Even if they wound T8+ on 6s, that still triggers Rend. Combined with 4 attacks a pop in large units, and it could well be reasonable to see them attritioning down Knights by themselves.

Weird.

Why you take Chaos Marauders insteand of Chaos Warriors in Fantasy? Because they are cheap cannon fodder. Is obvious that a elite unit is gonna be much better than a basic-horde unit. If they are properly balanced they will have both their place.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Eh, I'm not seeing much reason take Hormagaunts over Stealers, except maybe as screening (of course, if the game doesn't do "intervening models" cover, that's out).

Genestealers look primed to take on most anything and everything. Even if they wound T8+ on 6s, that still triggers Rend. Combined with 4 attacks a pop in large units, and it could well be reasonable to see them attritioning down Knights by themselves.

Weird.

Hormagaunts are probably far cheaper and have more attacks per cost, making them better at killing light infantry.

They didn't really say anything about their ranged weapons. Given how much better they became in close combat, is it unreasonable to assume we'll see a nerf to their shooting?

Also, given now that we've seen synapse mechanics, how will ATSKNF work? (I've been out all of 7th, so excuse me if ATSKNF isn't a thing anymore)

with a few exceptions Tyranid shooting was pretty mediocre, so I'm guessing they are going to keep that rather than catching a nerf.

This makes me wonder if Orks will get Fearless at a certain unit size like they used to have.
I am really hoping that Daemons just have regular Morale, but very high LD. The 8E Morale system is very much like Instability, so no "fearless' workaround is needed for them.

Swarmlord having 12 Wounds is interesting. It makes me wonder if regular Tyrants will also have 11/12 so they can be targeted.

 Galef wrote:
This makes me wonder if Orks will get Fearless at a certain unit size like they used to have.
I am really hoping that Daemons just have regular Morale, but very high LD. The 8E Morale system is very much like Instability, so no "fearless' workaround is needed for them.

Swarmlord having 12 Wounds is interesting. It makes me wonder if regular Tyrants will also have 11/12 so they can be targeted.

They have said about Tyrant Guard catching wounds for the Tyrants so I'll assume that yes, they are gonna be targeteable. So even more reasons to bring Tyrant guard to the table!

I'd love to see the carnifex rules. I always had a thing for them, but the rules didn't do them any favours.

 Galas wrote:

 Galef wrote:
This makes me wonder if Orks will get Fearless at a certain unit size like they used to have.
I am really hoping that Daemons just have regular Morale, but very high LD. The 8E Morale system is very much like Instability, so no "fearless' workaround is needed for them.

Swarmlord having 12 Wounds is interesting. It makes me wonder if regular Tyrants will also have 11/12 so they can be targeted.

They have said about Tyrant Guard catching wounds for the Tyrants so I'll assume that yes, they are gonna be targeteable. So even more reasons to bring Tyrant guard to the table!

That's a pretty hard nerf for Flying Tyrants, especially since "hard to hit' and 'snap shots' are gone (presumably)

-

J Mac wrote:
They didn't really say anything about their ranged weapons. Given how much better they became in close combat, is it unreasonable to assume we'll see a nerf to their shooting?

Also, given now that we've seen synapse mechanics, how will ATSKNF work? (I've been out all of 7th, so excuse me if ATSKNF isn't a thing anymore)

Marine focus next apparently - I think it will just be Leadership is not modifed by losses.

 Galef wrote:
This makes me wonder if Orks will get Fearless at a certain unit size like they used to have.
I am really hoping that Daemons just have regular Morale, but very high LD. The 8E Morale system is very much like Instability, so no "fearless' workaround is needed for them.

Swarmlord having 12 Wounds is interesting. It makes me wonder if regular Tyrants will also have 11/12 so they can be targeted.

I think they will have 11. It would be really stupid to have such a big model being able to hide behind Rippers etc. Gulliman is still max Warboss size (at least in fluff) so it makes sense for him to be screened by SM or PSM (9 wounds or not).

Tyran wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Eh, I'm not seeing much reason take Hormagaunts over Stealers, except maybe as screening (of course, if the game doesn't do "intervening models" cover, that's out).

Genestealers look primed to take on most anything and everything. Even if they wound T8+ on 6s, that still triggers Rend. Combined with 4 attacks a pop in large units, and it could well be reasonable to see them attritioning down Knights by themselves.

Weird.

Hormagaunts are probably far cheaper and have more attacks per cost, making them better at killing light infantry.

Bolters wound Hormagaunts on 3+ while Scatter Lasers wound them on 2s. Wounding Genestealers on 2+ requires S8, which is generally needed for AT anyway. Thus Genestealers are roughly of the same defense class and thus help your army have a universal defensive value (harder for your foe to have 100% weapons).

Anything can kill infantry but not everything kills tanks effectively. Spreading AT throughout your army rather than focusing it in a few linchpin units protects your army from being out-rocked the moment someone goes Armored Company on you.

 Galef wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Galef wrote:
This makes me wonder if Orks will get Fearless at a certain unit size like they used to have.
I am really hoping that Daemons just have regular Morale, but very high LD. The 8E Morale system is very much like Instability, so no "fearless' workaround is needed for them.

Swarmlord having 12 Wounds is interesting. It makes me wonder if regular Tyrants will also have 11/12 so they can be targeted.

They have said about Tyrant Guard catching wounds for the Tyrants so I'll assume that yes, they are gonna be targeteable. So even more reasons to bring Tyrant guard to the table!

That's a pretty hard nerf for Flying Tyrants, especially since "hard to hit' and 'snap shots' are gone (presumably)

-

IIRC they said that it will be replaced by a modifier to the roll to hit.

Tyran wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Galef wrote:
This makes me wonder if Orks will get Fearless at a certain unit size like they used to have.
I am really hoping that Daemons just have regular Morale, but very high LD. The 8E Morale system is very much like Instability, so no "fearless' workaround is needed for them.

Swarmlord having 12 Wounds is interesting. It makes me wonder if regular Tyrants will also have 11/12 so they can be targeted.

They have said about Tyrant Guard catching wounds for the Tyrants so I'll assume that yes, they are gonna be targeteable. So even more reasons to bring Tyrant guard to the table!

That's a pretty hard nerf for Flying Tyrants, especially since "hard to hit' and 'snap shots' are gone (presumably)

-

IIRC they said that it will be replaced by a modifier to the roll to hit.

A Flyrant could always take a Tyrant Giuard unit, it was just pointless as TG are a bad unit outside of being relatively tough for their size. Flyrant with TG just couldn't Swoop or move more than 8"

 Deadshot wrote:

Tyran wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Galef wrote:
This makes me wonder if Orks will get Fearless at a certain unit size like they used to have.
I am really hoping that Daemons just have regular Morale, but very high LD. The 8E Morale system is very much like Instability, so no "fearless' workaround is needed for them.

Swarmlord having 12 Wounds is interesting. It makes me wonder if regular Tyrants will also have 11/12 so they can be targeted.

They have said about Tyrant Guard catching wounds for the Tyrants so I'll assume that yes, they are gonna be targeteable. So even more reasons to bring Tyrant guard to the table!

That's a pretty hard nerf for Flying Tyrants, especially since "hard to hit' and 'snap shots' are gone (presumably)

-

IIRC they said that it will be replaced by a modifier to the roll to hit.

A Flyrant could always take a Tyrant Giuard unit, it was just pointless as TG are a bad unit outside of being relatively tough for their size. Flyrant with TG just couldn't Swoop or move more than 8"

Or ya could be real nasty and take multiple tyrant guard/hive guard (what they called out in regards to command squads for nids) and swoop between them.

We don't know how wings will affect tyrants/princes etc. They might not even get the fly mechanic that tau have been shown to ahve, though I suspect they will. Doubt that will be all they do though. They'd have to be significantly cheaper to warrant paying for them if that's all they did. Hell, I'm not even sure they would benefit a tyrant geared for melee at all. Wings could still be good.

that said, the lowish toughness for hive tyrants is a bit dissappointing, I'd hoped they'd be above 6. but we'll have to see, I THINK Hiove Tyrants should be in a decent place now

Well, I have 2 problems with the article. 1) I wish synapse didn't make them immune to moral. There are other ways they could have done it. Like cut losses in half for the purpose of moral. So you would need to kill 10 to get a d6+5 -ld.

2) I am terrified Instinctive Behavior will still ruin the army. Right now it shackles nid models to synapse. Bad leadership hasn't been enough of a punishment to counter synapse in the past. You cannot deepstrike a nonsynapse unless you ALSO deepstrike a synapse to maintain control over them. You can't break off some gargoyles to go grab an objective unless you ALSO break off a synapse to support them. It forces you to move the whole army as a blob except for the very few units who don't have IB.

1 bad thing (bad ld) is enough. 2 bad things is overkill.

are we sure instinctive behavior will even EXIST in 8th?