Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Im going to be getting into an inquistion black templar army and im curious if I could get by with just dread knights and contemptors rather than having to worry about serious anti air

We don't know how they will really work no.

I suspect a BS penalty (-1 or -2) if anything. But it could just as easily be that they simply have a great mobility and are immune to assault.

Nobody has any actual idea whats going to happen.

All we know is movement wise they ignore intervening models, have minimum movement they need to move, turn around on spot like ballerina and can flee from combat and shoot.

As far as I can tell, there's nothing stopping Flyers from moving backwards.

Hopefully not OP and not super sucky.

Moving backwards would make no sense for a supersonic jet or bomber though even with eldar/dark eldar level engineering.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Hopefully not OP and not super sucky.

Moving backwards would make no sense for a supersonic jet or bomber though even with eldar/dark eldar level engineering.

And moving sideways makes no sense for a tracked tank.

Some things may be abstracted a bit tbh. The 90 degree turn restriction in place at present makes flyers almost hilariously easy to just ignore rather than ever trying to fight them.

There was a leak of one page of rules. They mention that some models have minumum and maximum movement values like flyers do have now, but in 8th if the flier flies off the table it counts as being destroyed instead of going in to ongoing reserve.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Hopefully not OP and not super sucky.

Moving backwards would make no sense for a supersonic jet or bomber though even with eldar/dark eldar level engineering.

Someone is obviously not thinking Kerbal enough. When you need more thrust, simply add more boosters.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Hopefully not OP and not super sucky.

Moving backwards would make no sense for a supersonic jet or bomber though even with eldar/dark eldar level engineering.

Sure it does. The plane just makes a loop in the air and rolls to a new facing. Even World War 1 Bi-planes could do this. You would think 40K years in the future they would have mastered this at super speeds.

 the Signless wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Hopefully not OP and not super sucky.

Moving backwards would make no sense for a supersonic jet or bomber though even with eldar/dark eldar level engineering.

Someone is obviously not thinking Kerbal enough. When you need more thrust, simply add more boosters.

the old... if force is not working then you are not using enough of it!

but plenty of the 40k models would never fly without thrusters like a harrier so yes, they use that sort of thrust and boom moving backwards no problem

They'll probably have a major BS penalty to shoot them(likely provided by some rule like Flying, which in turn will be ignored by Skyfire), and they won't be able to be charged or locked in combat while flying.

They might actually be a lot more dangerous since it's much harder to kill vehicles now.

I wonder if flyers will be immune to the penalty for shooting heavy weapons while moving.

It would be kind of silly if they weren't I guess, considering that with a minimum move it's not like they can choose not to move.

They will most likely have the Relentless rule, or whatever it's new equivalent is.

CovenantGuardian wrote:
but in 8th if the flier flies off the table it counts as being destroyed instead of going in to ongoing reserve.

Well that's certainly stupid. Good job GW, taking a step backwards for every improvement in 8th.

 Peregrine wrote:

CovenantGuardian wrote:
but in 8th if the flier flies off the table it counts as being destroyed instead of going in to ongoing reserve.

Well that's certainly stupid. Good job GW, taking a step backwards for every improvement in 8th.

Then simply don't fly off the table.

 Peregrine wrote:

CovenantGuardian wrote:
but in 8th if the flier flies off the table it counts as being destroyed instead of going in to ongoing reserve.

Well that's certainly stupid. Good job GW, taking a step backwards for every improvement in 8th.

I hope that's not true.
Unless you have a way of guaranteeing their arrival on the second turn Flyers are already a big lump of points that usually arrives too late to be of any use.
GW stooge "I got a great idea! Lets make it so any Guardsman can hurt them with consecutive 6s and if they leave the battlefield they get destroyed!"
The rest of the GW team "OMG! That's amazing. Let's do it"

Movement rules:

Well that is a big change for the flyers.. but makes them a lot more mobile

Hopefully with the vehicle damage table gone getting stuck following a direction line is no longer a thing.

Flyers can be assaulted, they're just exempt from the penalty to movement and shooting if/when they break from combat. I swear if my Vendetta has a strength and Attack characteristic I'll rage all over my FLGS and only play 7th, with no formations.

 Gibblets wrote:
Flyers can be assaulted, they're just exempt from the penalty to movement and shooting if/when they break from combat. I swear if my Vendetta has a strength and Attack characteristic I'll rage all over my FLGS and only play 7th, with no formations.

Units with the rule 'Fly' can move without penalty.. but this also includes jump units

Your Vendetta will have a Str and Atk characteristic like all vehicles, so go rage up son...


But I would expect flyers to have additional rules preventing units from charging them

Dunno, look at the dwarf flying boat rules I guess?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Dunno, look at the dwarf flying boat rules I guess?

there's a scene in the space Marine video game that gives a GREAT example of how assaulting a flioer might work, where Titus is on a vendetta gunship being flown somewhere you get to man a gun, the Orks (Stormboys) are launching themselves into the air and flying at the vendetta on jet packs. it's a great little scene, and certainly shows one way a flier could be assaulted.

BrianDavion wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Dunno, look at the dwarf flying boat rules I guess?

there's a scene in the space Marine video game that gives a GREAT example of how assaulting a flioer might work, where Titus is on a vendetta gunship being flown somewhere you get to man a gun, the Orks (Stormboys) are launching themselves into the air and flying at the vendetta on jet packs. it's a great little scene, and certainly shows one way a flier could be assaulted.

I see it with jump packs and low altitude... but what about say - a Plague Zombie, or an Assault Terminator/Mutilator? That would just be pushing it a bit.

I would be very shocked if fliers didnt have a unit key word like "aircraft" or "airborne" that made it so they could only be assaulted by models with the fly keyword.

 Lance845 wrote:
I would be very shocked if fliers didnt have a unit key word like "aircraft" or "airborne" that made it so they could only be assaulted by models with the fly keyword.

Yes, i think the keyword "fly" includes a rule that only fly may assault fly. ...Which means a vendetta could also assault some jetpack units if they used their jump before

Im curious on the to hit modifiers theyll give against flyers.. for shooting and assault. It should still be very difficult for a stormboy with a firecracker on his back to intercept a flying apex predator like an eldar crimson hunter... But gw probably will not care about that and will simplify it a lot for playability.

With that movement page in mind, I hope they've thought to mention on drop pods that the people in it disembark when it comes down. If they have not, then as the rules state that they count as having moved, and we also know that you can only disembark before movement, they'll be stuck in the pod for the first turn after coming down.

I believe they have thought of this, I'm just a little nervous that it's one of those things they may have missed, thinking of old GW and how they wrote rules.

 Purifier wrote:
With that movement page in mind, I hope they've thought to mention on drop pods that the people in it disembark when it comes down. If they have not, then as the rules state that they count as having moved, and we also know that you can only disembark before movement, they'll be stuck in the pod for the first turn after coming down.

I believe they have thought of this, I'm just a little nervous that it's one of those things they may have missed, thinking of old GW and how they wrote rules.

I imagine that the drop pod rules will be exactly the same as the Trygon's Subterranean Assault rule, so I wouldn't worry.

 Lance845 wrote:
I would be very shocked if fliers didnt have a unit key word like "aircraft" or "airborne" that made it so they could only be assaulted by models with the fly keyword.

Doubt it - Flying Dwarf ships, gyrocopters ec can be attacked as normal - suspect the same is true for flyers in 40k.

Poly Ranger wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Dunno, look at the dwarf flying boat rules I guess?

there's a scene in the space Marine video game that gives a GREAT example of how assaulting a flioer might work, where Titus is on a vendetta gunship being flown somewhere you get to man a gun, the Orks (Stormboys) are launching themselves into the air and flying at the vendetta on jet packs. it's a great little scene, and certainly shows one way a flier could be assaulted.

I see it with jump packs and low altitude... but what about say - a Plague Zombie, or an Assault Terminator/Mutilator? That would just be pushing it a bit.

further rules will likely make them harder to hit like override all unit that do not have jump pack, jet pack, or flyer special rule. melee hits on 6+ plague zombies throw rocks or something and maybe hit something important but probably not. terminators probably throw grenades?