Switch Theme:

Thinking of starting...  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in au
Kabalite Conscript



Sydney

I'm actually thinking of starting Warmahordes because the models just look too fricking awesome and the scale seems to be smaller than 40k (something which I'm looking for)

Couple of questions before I really dig in!

1. How do the prices compare with Games Workshop products? Is it relatively cheaper? Same? A lot cheaper? More expensive?

2. Are the models hard to paint? (smaller details etc. etc.?)

3. Is it a good time to start? Or is there something new coming out (like 8th Ed for 40k)

Cheers folks!
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Portland

Answers to 1 & 2 depend on how much you hate working with PVC (not that I'm prejudiced). I think the material's almost always trash compared to metal, HIPS, or resin... which is okay, if I'm compensated for it with a low price and I like the kit. But, I feel PP charges too much for it, which is a breaking point for me. If you're fine with the material, it's fair.

On 3, they just updated editions, but the new edition seems relatively unstable because it was rushed out the gate and they're heavily using errata now, but that's second-hand knowledge and I expect others could provide more details.


My painted armies (40k, WM/H, Malifaux, Infinity...) 
   
Made in us
Leader of the Sept






an Errated edition isturning out fine. It keeps stupid stuff from going into stupid dumb strong territory.

Bullockist wrote:I think a mini of hotsauceman1 rending the overly serious posters of dakka in twain with a flexing of humourous intent would be a winning mini.

4000pts 2000 1500
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Overdose wrote:
I'm actually thinking of starting Warmahordes because the models just look too fricking awesome and the scale seems to be smaller than 40k (something which I'm looking for)


Welcome to the Iron Kingdoms. Don’t forget to grab your goggles and ironclad plushie!


Overdose wrote:

1. How do the prices compare with Games Workshop products? Is it relatively cheaper? Same? A lot cheaper? More expensive?
!


This depends entirely on how you look at it. I think this is a far more complicated question than just ‘what does it cost’.

When buying into a game, there are 4 ways that cost needs to be examined.

(1) Cost per model. Self-explanatory.
(2) Cost of entry (what it costs to buy a (rather nebulous) ‘reasonable amount of stuff’ to get yourself going and play ‘reasonably sized games’ whilst allowing for some variety.
(3) Cost of expansion. Self- explanatory. Expand to the 'proper sized games' and to allow for muttiple lists.
(4) Upkeep (what it costs to ‘stay current’ in terms of the meta, new rules, new releases etc.

With regard to these 4 points, and how Warmachine ‘stacks up’, especially compared to 40k, I would say the followimg:

(1) Cost per model would probably be the same, sometimes more. For the most part, they are large, metal models. When it comes to the various characters (and this is a character-centric game…) and larger pieces like warjacks and cavalry, you can expect to pay quite a bit. Its not unheard of to pay £50 for a box of 10 resin or metal figures, or even a single jack or caster. That said… while cost per model is high, it is mitigated to a point by a smaller model count (if a figure costs £10, it seems pricey at first glance, but if all you need is ten of them, its not so bad…)
(2) Cost of entry is very reasonable. Look for the various 50pt starter bundles and the starter sets (warcaster plus a handful of jacks) – they’re a great deal. Also, if you intend on being serious, invest in their Warroom app – it will cost you a bit for all the decks for every faction, but these are automatically updated with every new release they put out. It’s a fantastic resource. Plus, rulebook, but I think that is available for free download too.
(3) Can be deceptively reasonable. What I like about WMH as opposed to 40k is its not ‘front loaded’. You don’t necessarily have to pay £400 every time before you even start. You can buy in pretty reasonably as mentioned above, and then expand slowly with a new caster, solo, unit etc, a piece at a time and make small incremental purchases (and by the nature of the game, one change in your army list can make your whole army play completely differently). That said, I would argue, at the end of the year, if you look back and count up what you’ve spent, you will probably have spent more than you thought (which isn’t a bad thing – it’s a solid game and I would recommend ‘buying variety’ than just buying ‘the best’ 75pt list and not going any further – ‘the best’ list isn’t really a thing in WMH…). You’ll find that, unlike 40k, you don’t aim for an X-sized army and stop. You will end up with that, plus a ‘sideboard’, in terms of other casters, jacks, units etc, so while lists are typically 75pts, most people, if they count up, would have 100+pts worth of stuff… total cost of that would be understandably high, but as mentioned you wont get to this in a day and the incremental nature of the ‘buy-in’ softens the blow considerably.
(4) Pretty reasonable for the most part. Buy the warroom decks and you will always be up to date with the rules. PP will always be releasing new stuff, and while there is every chance your new caster could be a beast, new releases don’t necessarily make what came before obsolete all of a sudden – like GW love to do. There are exceptions, but generally speaking a lot of the older stuff is still pretty viable, once you know how to build your synnergies. If you look at the first ‘wave’ of stuff from Mk1 ten years ago, pretty much all of it can be built into the modern meta and can be built into an effective, game winning strategy.

That said, I would hesitate to say its ‘cheaper’ than 40k. depending on how you approach it, it can be very expensive. there are approaches to 40k that are pretty reasonable, and there are lists/builds in WMH that are ludicrously expensive (taking cavalry lists, for example) and will cost you over £300 for what amounts to a handful of models. For example, I expanded my khador roster a few years ago with vlad3 and his 'charge of the horselords' theme list, which is essentially a cavalry strike force - it cost me well over £300 for thst army which consists of about 22 models. Similarly, there are casters, and individual models that are very pricey, almost to the point of stupidity sometimes.

Overdose wrote:


2. Are the models hard to paint? (smaller details etc. etc.?)


No, they’re fine.

Overdose wrote:


3. Is it a good time to start? Or is there something new coming out (like 8th Ed for 40k)



It’s a good, solid game, so its always a good time to start. 3rd edition of the game has just been released last year, so you don’t need to worry about a new edition just round the corner. For me, what would matter more is the local community. If they’re a bunch of jerks, stay clear. If they seem all right, dive right in.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/25 20:44:40


greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy

"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are" 
   
Made in us
Satyxis Raider






Seattle, WA

I think Deadnight pretty much nailed it. Nice job.
   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear





 Mordekiem wrote:
I think Deadnight pretty much nailed it. Nice job.


I'll second that

However bear in mind some of the mini's are major PITA's to assemble, but so be ready for quite a lot of pinning and gap filling, it's not that the models are bad but PP have some curious idea's about breaking down scupts

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




My take in pp, after spending 6 years playing and at 5k $ on it: the model quality sucks, 10 man box has 3 sculpts, can be a pain to assemble and costs more than comparable from other companies. Bigger models cost more, and have same issues, no extra parts, harder to customise etc. This edition of the game has me quitting completely, the next errata can completely invalidate your army just by making 1 piece completely useless. There are huge divides in which factions are good and which factions are bad, and the way the.company has treated its.customers over the last year is horrible. My meta has completely died off, have people who were press Gangers and played since the beginning that won't touch them, myself included. If your meta is strong id.talk to.people before spending a dime.
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut




I have the feeling that i spend less money on PP models than GW, I mean a warjack can be bought for 30 euro's, which most of the times has 3 version if magnetized meaning that you can get more bang for you buck compared to GW.

In gw the newstuff is always really strong, close to OP. My feeling is that warmahordes is really balanced. And sometimes feel like other armies have advantage, but that means that some shacks up the meta. The ghostfleet that is considerd strong now, because it asked a question that many people are not used to answering. For myself, it has been a while since I called a whole army OP.

Roddo, comment about the invalidating of purchases is probably linked to buying into a certain spam that is broken and pp fixes it and thereby invalidting your purchase. In my opinion this is the player fould and not the company. I do have to agree with him/her that the quality is not the same as GW's.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Abel





Washington State

arthorn wrote:

Roddo, comment about the invalidating of purchases is probably linked to buying into a certain spam that is broken and pp fixes it and thereby invalidting your purchase. In my opinion this is the player fould and not the company. I do have to agree with him/her that the quality is not the same as GW's.

My counter argument to that is that the game is all about Steamroller now. We know what the scenarios are, we have theme lists, and so we can select models and units to totally take advantage of the scenarios and the themes. It doesn't take a PhD or genius to figure that out. The problem becomes when you buy this list, and you and everyone else that is playing this list is kicking butt, then Privateer Press errata's the Steamroller, or the theme list, or a couple key models that makes your list invalid or breaks it so badly that you'll never play it in a Steamroller. PP is constantly "tuning", "errata'ing" and "FAQ'ing". They may only publish the "annual errata" twice a year, but Warroom is updated almost immediately when a model's rules changes, and most of the errata rules are incorporated immediately into the Steamroller rules. How is this a player's problem? The player knows the conditions under which he/she will play, and selects a theme and models to maximize their advantage on the table top. When the list becomes this nebulous "borken" idea that is never properly defined or made clear to the player base, it's nerfed under this huge, all encompassing idea of "Play Balance", "Design Space", or my favorite "Never intended to be used that way".

Throw in the ongoing CiD, and the pre-purchasing of models/units ahead of the release, and things just become a disaster.

How is any of this the player's fault?

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut




Or even worse, when mk2 turned to mk3, basically a lot of good units/themes just became utter crap. B2 with doomreaver spam. Bradigus with wolds. Trolls mighty meat mountain, although they nerfed the warders late in mk2. The winterguard death star, the kayazy assassins with underboss. Errants with attachments.

Or even early mk3, with karchev and multiple cheap jacks.

My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Portland

Personally, I'm still cranky that my mk2 theme list special options weren't kept. I have a few pieces I only bought and painted because I liked a theme list, and those have been made illegal combos...


My painted armies (40k, WM/H, Malifaux, Infinity...) 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





They did about as well as they could on that front. I've got a pretty hefty collection of theme stuff from MK2 and the amount of it that's actually invalidated is pretty small (outside of Doom Reivers :( ). Even there, we've seen enough good come out of CID I suspect they'll have their day again, though I've always assumed someday a couple units would be invalidated one way or another.

A lot of it is meta and even more of it is the time its taken to churn out these themes. Solos and Attachments are pretty intentionally overcosted so a lot of stuff really only becomes worth it when you get them for free in themes. For example, Kayazy are pretty great now with Jaws and Warders are coming around again now that there's more for them to hit.

The game's always kind of been like this, with the community having very binary opinions on how terrible things are until they're suddenly in vogue and broken. Most things are far more playable than what the community is willing to admit and generally the things I was worried I'd be shelving at the start of MK3 in favor of things I had shelved in MK2 start to come back into rotation. I'm very curious to see what the giant theme release in September will do overall though.
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Portland

I liked the funky lists, and played Bad Seeds; I was tempted to play the Skarre and Zerkova ones that allowed unusual options, too, enough that I proxied a bit.

I don't really care about combos or abusively spammy lists, but I don't really like the removal of options unless there's something really wrong with them.


My painted armies (40k, WM/H, Malifaux, Infinity...) 
   
Made in us
Plaguelord Titan Princeps of Nurgle




Tampa, FL

IME:

1) Yes overall it's cheaper, at the kit level it's the same. But for example you will rarely (maybe not so rarely now with themes) buy the same kit more than once, with some exceptions (mostly warjacks). But generally speaking the pricing is much more consistent; infantry is typically a set amount across factions, there's no nonsense like this squad of 10 being $40, this other squad of 10 is $50, and this squad of 5 is $60.

2) No harder, typically less "bling" and tiny details in my experience, but it depends on the models.

3) Can't really speak to this as I had to stop playing it for a while since it was literally making my brain hurt (not give me a headache, I mean I felt like I was going to have an aneurysm) with all the permutations that you have to think of during a game or you can just lose.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe




Per model its probably more expensive than GW, but cost to play is much less due to not needing anywhere near as many models, even in a large army. As far as the above comments on erratas and changes, it really depends on your local meta. At my local store, the few people that do play warmahordes dont play it as much as 40k, and we cartainly dont keep up on all the up dates. We pretty much follow the biannual errata, so things dont change often. However, when things do change they are often significant and require us to make several changes to our lists, but that works for us because its usually the only time any of us expand our collections.
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

1) Overall, it's similar prices to get into vs GW in the long run. Short term, you can have a legal army for cheaper. Especially if you buy from online retailers that give discounts and/or buy battle boxes(starter sets) to flesh out. Warjacks or Warbeasts are also more points for your $ generally(plus the kits can be magnetized). PP units however are a bit expensive for the miniature quality, but you don't need as many models.

2) They're not hard to paint. They are relatively lower quality than GW miniatures, though their newer stuff is getting better so their detail is a little bigger. It depends on the faction too. Some are more detail, others are less.

3) It's always a good time to start. Recently, PP made all the rules free. The rulebook and model cards are free to download as PDFs. Though I recommend getting their official Waroom2 app, which is free and then each faction costs about $8(discounted to about 6 if you buy all the factions) to get their cards for the app(which includes any future new cards for the life of the edition). Warroom2 is a rules reference and list building app which also lets you track damage during a game. You can build a list and then use the app during the game to make down damage on your units. Or you can simply browse the main rulebook PDF or the faction cards you own(clicking on the cards also draws up a rule reference index which then can link to the main rulebook pdf for that specific rule).

Warroom2 is basically their official way to play the game now. It's not mandatory, but it is preferred since any errata or new stuff gets added there first. Their free online PDF of the rulebook and unit cards are updated much later.

It's going to be a very long time before there is an edition change. They've moved to a system called Community Integrated Development(CID) where new stuff gets publicly beta tested by anybody who signs up for their CID forums. So the game is in a place where it will be dynamically updated as needed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/05 00:52:07


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
 
Forum Index » Warmachine & Hordes by Privateer Press
Go to: