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If I hit someone with a weapon with a profile of user Str + X and an Armor Modifier of -Y is the total modifier (Str+X)+Y or only Str + Y? I know that X adds to the to wound chart but I was wondering if it also added to the str modifier vs armor chart as well.

A rules citation would also be appreciated.

Thanks.

If the weapon has its own AP value use that.

No, if the weapon has an AP, COMBINE that.

Example:
Say a sword is S: user, AP: -2

A chaos space marine with that same sword is strength 4, giving you a -1 armor modifier. The sword adds an additional -2, so CSM hits will result in a -3 armor mod roll.

A guardsman with S 3 will hit with S3 AP -2 with the same sword.

A Chaos marine with a S+1 weapon, and lets say AP -2 to keep it similar, would now be S:5, yielding a natural -2 armor mod. On top of that, the sword has a -2 mod, so a S+1 sword with AP -2 in a CSM hands will hit with a total armor mod of -4.

Hope that helps.

^ Correct!

People in my group are saying when using Str for AP it is the umodified Str and not the adjusted Str granted from the weapon.

So, in the above case the Str +1 would apply toward wounding but it would only be the Str + AP mod for the armor save modifier. A CSM with Str 4 is using the above weapon- he uses Str 5 to see if he wounds but the armor save is only -3 (1 for str 2 for the weapon).

Can someone point me to the rule that states to use the modifier for both wounding and armor?

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
People in my group are saying when using Str for AP it is the umodified Str and not the adjusted Str granted from the weapon.

So, in the above case the Str +1 would apply toward wounding but it would only be the Str + AP mod for the armor save modifier. A CSM with Str 4 is using the above weapon- he uses Str 5 to see if he wounds but the armor save is only -3 (1 for str 2 for the weapon).

Can someone point me to the rule that states to use the modifier for both wounding and armor?

They have misinterpreted the rules, but it is a very understandable confusion. Because the phrase "fighters own strength" over the table on page 42 is a pretty bad wording, and the rules concerning this is spread out on several pages of the book.

Check Page 53 - It's the second page of the Armoury, where Weapon profiles are explained. The last paragraph under Hand-to-Hand combat weapons says Save Modifier.
"... in the case of weapons that acts as a bonus to their wielders Strength, remember to calculate the save modifier using the total Strength after the bonus has been applied to the model itself (see Armour Modifiers, pg42)."

(page nrs from the first print of the book, not sure if the numbering is the same in the second)

Thank you. That citation will be a great help.