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Here is my first list for 8th edition. I gotta say, it looks rather sparse.

Battalion Detachment

HQ
Pedro Kantor - 170 pts
Rhino Primaris (Twin Plasma Gun, Orbital Array) -170 pts

Troops
Tactical Squad (5x Marines, Combi-Plasma, Plasma Gun, Rhino w/ Storm Bolter) - 165 pts
Tactical Squad (5x Marines, Combi-Plasma, Plasma Gun, Rhino w/ Storm Bolter) - 165 pts
Scout Squad (5x Scouts, 5x Sniper Rifles, 5x Camo Cloaks) - 90 pts

Elites
Sternguard Veteran Squad (10x Marines, 5x Combi-Melta, 5x Special Issue Boltgun, Drop Pod w/ Storm Bolter) - 375 pts
Sternguard Veteran Squad (10x Marines, 5x Combi-Plasma, 5x Special Issue Boltgun, Drop Pod w/ Storm Bolter) - 355 pts
Chapter Champion (Power Sword) - 69 pts
Honour Guard (2x Marines, Power Maul x2) - 50 pts
Chapter Ancient (Power Sword) - 76 pts
Apothecary (Bolt Pistol, Chainsword) - 55 pts

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad (5x Marines, 4x Lascannons) - 165 pts

Auxiliary​ Support Detachment

Elites
Culexus Assassin - 85 pts

Total - 1990 pts

I am not sure what I can do with those extra points. I guess I could give each Tactical Squad a Melta Bomb. I gotta say, I am really disappointed that Primaris Marines can't ride in Rhinos, otherwise they would probably replace my two Tactical Squads. I will have to sacrifice a Command Point to fit the Culexus in there, but I couldn't really find what to do with 95 pts. I am a little leery of having a bunch of characters riding together, but they will be bolstering the Sternguard and Tactical Squads. But there will be a lot of points all in one place, so that is a little scary.

Cant have special issue bolters and Combi Weapons. Maybe the Sergeant can have both, but the not sergeants can only have either a combi weapon or a special issue bolter.

That saves you about 30 points.

Find another 30, get an Eversor, and run him directly into enemy close combat section, since he can deploy 9.1" away from the enemy on one of your turns, and it charges 3d6".

 Crazyterran wrote:
Cant have special issue bolters and Combi Weapons. Maybe the Sergeant can have both, but the not sergeants can only have either a combi weapon or a special issue bolter.

That saves you about 30 points.

Find another 30, get an Eversor, and run him directly into enemy close combat section, since he can deploy 9.1" away from the enemy on one of your turns, and it charges 3d6".

I can if I forgot to type that it is two 10 man Squads of Sternguard. 5 have Combi, 5 have SI. The two Squads will combat squad for even more MSU fun.

I went with a Culexus because the Animus Speculum looks like it will be even more fun to use.

I just realized the Rhino Primaris still has Self-Repair like a regular Rhino. That means that, alongside the Servo Skull Hub, the Rhino Primaris can potentially heal itself two wounds every turn. Invincible Rhino FTW!

But if you repair skull yourself to you aren't handing out buffs!

Still pretty nifty.

 Crazyterran wrote:
But if you repair skull yourself to you aren't handing out buffs!

Still pretty nifty.

True. But the other Rhinos are going to be repairing themselves on a 6 as well. I agree it is nifty. I can't wait to take this list to the tabletop and see what it does.

I think sternguard will be very good this edition. I'm toying around with 30 sternguard builds in a brigade just to see if it can work at 2k points

 Lobukia wrote:
I think sternguard will be very good this edition. I'm toying around with 30 sternguard builds in a brigade just to see if it can work at 2k points

they are a great way to spam special weapons now. I almost think Combi-Plasma are a waste on them due to their Special Issue Boltguns being so good. Combi-Flamers and two Heavy Flamers would be great for wiping out hordes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, after a 1000 pt game using a reduced list based on this, I found that I need some ways to deal with hordes a little better. So...some changes were made.

Battalion Detachment

HQ
Pedro Kantor - 170 pts
Rhino Primaris (Twin Plasma Gun, Orbital Array) -170 pts

Troops
Tactical Squad (5x Marines, Combi-Plasma, Plasma Gun, Rhino w/ Storm Bolter) - 165 pts
Tactical Squad (5x Marines, Combi-Plasma, Plasma Gun, Rhino w/ Storm Bolter) - 165 pts
Scout Squad (5x Scouts, 5x Sniper Rifles, 5x Camo Cloaks) - 90 pts

Elites
Sternguard Veteran Squad (10x Marines, 5x Combi-Melta, 5x Special Issue Boltgun, Drop Pod w/ Storm Bolter) - 375 pts
Sternguard Veteran Squad (10x Marines, 5x Combi-Plasma, 5x Special Issue Boltgun, Drop Pod w/ Storm Bolter) - 355 pts
Company Veterans (Power Sword on the Sergeant, Power Mail x2) - 60 pts
Company Ancient (Power Maul) - 67 pts
Apothecary (Bolt Pistol, Chainsword) - 55 pts

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad (5x Marines, 4x Lascannons) - 165 pts
Vindicator (Demolisher Cannon) - 160 pts

Total - 1997 pts

If I had TWO measley points more, I would switch the Vindicator for a squad of Missile Launcher Devastators, but here we are.

Here is another version of the list I am considering.


Battalion Detachment

HQ
Pedro Kantor - 170 pts
Rhino Primaris (Twin Plasma Gun, Orbital Array) -170 pts

Troops
Tactical Squad (5x Marines, Combi-Plasma, Plasma Gun, Melta Bomb, Rhino w/Storm Bolter) - 165 pts
Tactical Squad (5x Marines, Combi-Plasma, Plasma Gun, Melta Bomb, Rhino w/Storm Bolter) - 165 pts
Scout Squad (5x Scouts, 5x Boltgun+Bolt Pistol, Melta Bomb) - 60 pts

Elites
Sternguard Veteran Squad (10x Marines, 5x Combi-Melta, 5x Special Issue Boltgun, Drop Pod w/ Storm Bolter) - 375 pts
Sternguard Veteran Squad (10x Marines, 5x Combi-Plasma, 5x Special Issue Boltgun, Drop Pod w/ Storm Bolter) - 355 pts
Company Veterans (Power Sword on the Sergeant, Power Maul x2, Power Sword x1) - 80 pts
Apothecary (Bolt Pistol, Chainsword) - 55 pts
Eversor Assassin - 70 pts

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad (5x Marines, 4x Lascannons) - 165 pts
Vindicator (Demolisher Cannon) - 160 pts

Total - 2000 pts

It is cheaper, insofar that the Scouts have less gear, the Ancient became a Power Sword Company Veteran, and I can afford an Eversor Assassin (named Marbo Jr.). The increase in Firepower for the Transports is nice enough as well. SB to THB is pretty nice. 6 shots at 36 inches is nothing to ignore.

Edit: Dangit, I messed up my points count. RBs go back to Rhinos for now. What can I do for 15 pts? Give the Scouts a Melta Bomb, I guess. I guess the Tactical Squads could use one as well for now.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Here is another version of the list I am considering.


Battalion Detachment

HQ
Pedro Kantor - 170 pts
Rhino Primaris (Twin Plasma Gun, Orbital Array) -170 pts

Troops
Tactical Squad (5x Marines, Combi-Plasma, Plasma Gun, Melta Bomb, Rhino w/Storm Bolter) - 165 pts
Tactical Squad (5x Marines, Combi-Plasma, Plasma Gun, Melta Bomb, Rhino w/Storm Bolter) - 165 pts
Scout Squad (5x Scouts, 5x Boltgun+Bolt Pistol, Melta Bomb) - 60 pts

Elites
Sternguard Veteran Squad (10x Marines, 5x Combi-Melta, 5x Special Issue Boltgun, Drop Pod w/ Storm Bolter) - 375 pts
Sternguard Veteran Squad (10x Marines, 5x Combi-Plasma, 5x Special Issue Boltgun, Drop Pod w/ Storm Bolter) - 355 pts
Company Veterans (Power Sword on the Sergeant, Power Maul x2, Power Sword x1) - 80 pts
Apothecary (Bolt Pistol, Chainsword) - 55 pts
Eversor Assassin - 70 pts

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad (5x Marines, 4x Lascannons) - 165 pts
Vindicator (Demolisher Cannon) - 160 pts

Total - 2000 pts

It is cheaper, insofar that the Scouts have less gear, the Ancient became a Power Sword Company Veteran, and I can afford an Eversor Assassin (named Marbo Jr.). The increase in Firepower for the Transports is nice enough as well. SB to THB is pretty nice. 6 shots at 36 inches is nothing to ignore.

Edit: Dangit, I messed up my points count. RBs go back to Rhinos for now. What can I do for 15 pts? Give the Scouts a Melta Bomb, I guess. I guess the Tactical Squads could use one as well for now.

is there an alternative option to plasma on the rhino primaris? keep in mind that it will almost never be worth it to supercharge shots on something that valuable.

There is not. Its wargear is set. And I agree, there is never going to be an instance where I overcharge those guns. But at least they are still effective in their normal state.

If you need more anti-horde, maybe instead of the vindicator a devastator squad of heavy bolters would be an option?

A 7 man squad with 6 heavy bolters is around 150pts, pumping out 18 shots. Pop them in cover and you got a 2+ save with a 36inch range. Maybe place a character nearby for reroll 1's and you have a pretty effective anti infantry squad.

Process wrote:
If you need more anti-horde, maybe instead of the vindicator a devastator squad of heavy bolters would be an option?

A 7 man squad with 6 heavy bolters is around 150pts, pumping out 18 shots. Pop them in cover and you got a 2+ save with a 36inch range. Maybe place a character nearby for reroll 1's and you have a pretty effective anti infantry squad.

A squad can only have four heavy Bolters.

It's nice to see our list progression even at this early stage. I myself want to run a fluffly combat Black Templar list so quite different to yourself.

Good to see how people are panning out either way!

 Luvvo wrote:
It's nice to see our list progression even at this early stage. I myself want to run a fluffly combat Black Templar list so quite different to yourself.

Good to see how people are panning out either way!

My fear was that a lot of SM lists would look the same. I am glad to see that is not the case!

I am going to try out my two lists soon and see where that gets me. I like the idea of an Eversor Assassin ripping up someone's backfield though.

HQ
Pedro Kantor - 170 pts
Rhino Primaris (Twin Plasma Gun, Orbital Array) -170 pts

Troops
Tactical Squad (5x Marines, Combi-Flamer, Flamer, Melta Bomb, Rhino w/Storm Bolter) - 162 pts
Tactical Squad (5x Marines, Combi-Flamer, Flamer, Melta Bomb, Rhino w/Storm Bolter) - 162 pts
Scout Squad (5x Scouts, 5x Boltgun+Bolt Pistol, Melta Bomb) - 60 pts

Elites
Sternguard Veteran Squad (10x Marines, 5x Combi-Melta, 5x Special Issue Boltgun, Drop Pod w/ Storm Bolter) - 375 pts
Sternguard Veteran Squad (10x Marines, 5x Combi-Plasma, 5x Special Issue Boltgun, Drop Pod w/ Storm Bolter) - 355 pts
Honour Guard (Power Sword x2) - 50 pts
Honour Guard (Power Maul x2) - 50 pts
Apothecary (Bolt Pistol, Chainsword) - 55 pts
Eversor Assassin - 70 pts

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad (5x Marines, 4x Lascannons) - 165 pts
Vindicator (Demolisher Cannon) - 160 pts

Total - 1999 pts

After a run with the Combi-Plasma against a horde army, I found I could probably be better served by a paired Flamer and Combi-Flamer for my Tactical Squads. 8 Bolter shots (2 of which are at 4+ though) and 2d6 autohit seems like it would be more effective than the plasma shots. I still have Sternguard to deal with stuff that actually requires a bit more applied strength. And a Melta Bomb thrown into the mix allows for the occasional hit on a heavy hitter anyway.

The Company Veterans being switched for Honour Guard seems like a better option. They have an extra wound, better armor, and I am only missing out on one attack. Paired with the Apothecary, I can heal them a lot easier as well.

The more I think about it, the fact that I have six Elites and two HQs, I think I would be better served by taking two Vanguard Detachments instead of a Battalion. For one less CP, I can forgo my Troops altogether. This would save me 380 pts to spend on stuff. I would get two Twin Assault Cannon Razorbacks for 105 a piece. That would leave me with 170 pts for stuff. If I wanted, I could still take my two Combi-Flamer/Flamer Tactical Squads. That would hit the 2000 pts right on the dot. It would have a ton better shooting at the low low price of a Command Point (which I have to fight to remember to use...). I could always get a Venerable Dreadnought as well. I would like to find space for a Primaris Lieutenant, but I don't really want to take just him. It really stinks that the price of Inceptors shot up, because I would actually really like to use a squad of them (literally some of the most Crimson Fists-esque units EVER).

Any thoughts on what to do with those extra 170 pts? As of right now, I am leaning toward just keeping the Tactical Squads.

Or the obvious choice, a squad of Missile Devastators. And the remaining 5 points lets me buy a Storm Bolter on each of the Razorbacks so they are truly WYSIWYG.

Yeah tacticals are defInitely no longer an auto-include but it's good to have cheap 'boots on the ground' to bubble wrap units, objective grab and to simply provide a distraction.

I agree with the razorbacks. From both initial impressions and based on how they have performed for me they are much better than rhinos.

Dreadnoughts can help fill any gaps in firepower and devastators are also a good choice. I'd lean towards the dreadnought since you already have devastators. I would also consider bumping the squad up to 10 so you have the ability to combat squad and claim two objectives and it also provides wound buffers for the heavy weapons.

However, my primary motto is play what you find fun and like the look of!

So I think I can accomplish a lot more without the Drop Pods. I can split the Sternguard and put them in the Razorbacks and a Rhino. The extra points can get me a Vindicare Assassin and some Bolter Scouts. I have been concerned about Characters, so the Vindicare will help with that. So here is the new set up.

Vanguard Detachment
HQ
Pedro Kantor - 170 pts

Elites
Apothecary - 55 pts
Honour Guard (Power Sword x2) - 50 pts
Honour Guard (Power Maul x2) - 50 pts

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad (4x Lascannon) - 165 pts

Dedicated Transports
Razorback (Twin Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter) - 102 pts
Razorback (Twin Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter) - 102 pts

Vanguard Detachment
HQ
Rhino Primaris (Twin plasma gun, orbital array) - 170 pts
Troops
Scout Squad (x5 Boltgun+bolt pistol) - 55 pts

Elites
Sternguard Squad (x10 Special Issue Boltgun) - 190 pts
Sternguard Squad (x5 Combi-Melta) - 175 pts
Sternguard Squad (x5 Combi-Plasma) - 155 pts
Eversor Assassin - 70 pts
Vindicare Assassin - 90 pts

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad (x4 Missile Launchers) - 165 pts
Vindicator (Storm Bolter) - 162 pts

Dedicated Transports
Rhino (Storm Bolter) - 72 pts

Total - 1998/2000 pts

Pedro, the Apothecary, and the Honour Guard go in the Rhino Primaris, the 10-man Sternguard Squad goes in the Rhino, the two 5-man Sternguard Squads each go in a Razorback, and the Assassins and Scouts deploy forward. Las and Missile Devs sit in the back and provide fire support. The Vindicator goes wherever it is needed.

Razorbacks look so much better than using the Rhinos. Especially if your running a smaller unit.

Your list evolved quickly and does look good. IMO

Assault Cannon Razorbacks with a Storm Bolter are 102pts each so you've got some more pts to play with.

JonSpencer14 wrote:Razorbacks look so much better than using the Rhinos. Especially if your running a smaller unit.

Your list evolved quickly and does look good. IMO

Thanks. I already converted my HB turrets into Assault Cannon turrets. Can't wait to give them a spin.

AlexHeap wrote:Assault Cannon Razorbacks with a Storm Bolter are 102pts each so you've got some more pts to play with.

That's a typo. I will fix it. They are 102 in Battlescribe, so my point total is correct.

Pedro is actually 190pts, not 170.
His initial cost doesn't include his mandatory, non-interchangeable Power Fist (+20pts) which he could never not take.

Iron Mike wrote:
Pedro is actually 190pts, not 170.
His initial cost doesn't include his mandatory, non-interchangeable Power Fist (+20pts) which he could never not take.

No he is 170. All his wargear is included in his cost.

KaoxVeed wrote:

Iron Mike wrote:
Pedro is actually 190pts, not 170.
His initial cost doesn't include his mandatory, non-interchangeable Power Fist (+20pts) which he could never not take.

No he is 170. All his wargear is included in his cost.

Where does it state all his wargear is included in his cost? What page?
It specifically says above Named Characters "Does Not Include Wargear."
Dorn's Arrow is 0pts, the grenades are 0pts, the Power Fist is 20pts.

Iron Mike wrote:

KaoxVeed wrote:

Iron Mike wrote:
Pedro is actually 190pts, not 170.
His initial cost doesn't include his mandatory, non-interchangeable Power Fist (+20pts) which he could never not take.

No he is 170. All his wargear is included in his cost.

Where does it state all his wargear is included in his cost? What page?
It specifically says above Named Characters "Does Not Include Wargear."
Dorn's Arrow is 0pts, the grenades are 0pts, the Power Fist is 20pts.

Page 203 it says "includes wargear" by named characters. Regular HQs on the facing page say "does not".

Iron Mike wrote:
Pedro is actually 190pts, not 170.
His initial cost doesn't include his mandatory, non-interchangeable Power Fist (+20pts) which he could never not take.

Yeah, no. Page 203 says his points per model includes his wargear.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Iron Mike wrote:
Pedro is actually 190pts, not 170.
His initial cost doesn't include his mandatory, non-interchangeable Power Fist (+20pts) which he could never not take.

Yeah, no. Page 203 says his points per model includes his wargear.

I don't mean to sound like a dick but I'm using the digital book and page 203 is the Ravenwing Darkshroud.
Can you quote the book? I'm planning on playing Crimson Fists and I hope you're right!

Iron Mike wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Iron Mike wrote:
Pedro is actually 190pts, not 170.
His initial cost doesn't include his mandatory, non-interchangeable Power Fist (+20pts) which he could never not take.

Yeah, no. Page 203 says his points per model includes his wargear.

I don't mean to sound like a dick but I'm using the digital book and page 203 is the Ravenwing Darkshroud.
Can you quote the book? I'm planning on playing Crimson Fists and I hope you're right!

we have been quoting the book, in my case, directly from the epub. It says Points per model (includes wargear).

PLEASE keep your vindicaire in the cabinet. He is the most expensive assassin and will do the LEAST amount of work. I have used him in 90% of my 8th games so far and he has done as much as a normal tac marine with a bolter. He is pretty survivable and his shots will do damage, but you have to hit. I've rolled a 1 to hit, rerolls with a command point to a 1 probably 10 times throughout playing with him. I haven't done more than 3 damage in a turn either. Not worth it. He is the least efficient assassin for sure. Callidus is a close second for a poo poo train. Culexus is always solid and the Eversor is papa badass now.

I LOVE the look of your list. All of your sternguard and HQ's with banners and honor guard, etc is just EPIC! My own lists have used 5 man tac units with special/combi as well, though because I don't have a razorback I run a rhino with 2 storm bolters and it is actually quite solid. 8 shots as 12" and only 74 points.

Good show!