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Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph





'Straya... Mate.

Hello my fellow blessed by Nurgle! Another fine day without feeling pain.

I know there is some concern for Death Guard in 8th edition.

My opinion on the Death Guard not being able to take terminators etc with the <Death Guard> Keyword:

It's exciting.

It means nothing for the current index, we can still take everything without losing any bonuses and our bikes (which are unfluffy anyway) aren't over powered etc.

Though what this implies is in the near future all of this stuff could be getting their own special Death Guard version of these things, at least rules wise.

We already know that new Terminators are on the way. We could have Death Guard heavy weapon teams instead of havoks, which while will be similar will bring their own fluffiness to the table!

I am more excited than ever for these new Death Guard releases!

One concern I have is the pricing of Typhus points wise, compared to the Lord of Contagion. There is literally no point in taking the Lord over Typhus.... Except for that Beautiful model of course.

How is everyone feeling for our rotten yet loveable faction?

Link to Chaos index leaks:
http://imgur.com/a/A9lGq

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/06/03 04:20:36


 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept





UK

Death Guard Havoks would be lovely, but I wouldn't count on it.

I was a bit disappointed initially re. Terminators, etc, but I think you're right. This is only the Index book ensuring all models have rules on 8th's release. In that respect, it could have been much worse for the legions.

I expect a full Death Guard Codex will be along fairly soon with all sorts of smelly goodness included.

Just a case of waiting it out til then.

Excited for it.


Angels Amaranthine - growing slowly

P&M blog ; http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/488077.page

Currently 200pts 
   
Made in de
Cackling Chaos Conscript





Dortmund

Well, i'm mostly hoping for a Death Guard release in the near future. Glimpses of Mortarion and the Death Guard Terminators that you mentioned seem to make this likely.

Personally i used to play my Army in a not very fluffy way, depending on Bikers, Raptors and Havocs a lot - all of which are no longer available to us. While i understand that Bikes and Raptors are gone, the removal of Havocs in general just makes it hard for me to even field a playable army right now. Personally i have no idea how to beat, let alone come close to an enemy gun line right now. New units like the Bloat Drones seem to be quite strong, but only time and some games will show, if they are actually able to balance the scales here.

So it seems that the 8th Edition brings a return to the multi-gods lists of old. Personally i suppose my Death Guard will simply be rebranded into the nurgle-themed Chaos Warband Heralds of Corrosion, so that i will be able to stick with my units of old. At least for now.

   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph





'Straya... Mate.

I think you are confused with the keywords Vyra; you can still take all those things in an 8th Death Guard army using different key words, you just won't get the benefits of the Death Guard keyword for them (not that there is many benefits for that keyword at this stage)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cool name though


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heralds of Corrosion I mean

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/01 08:33:36


 
   
Made in gb
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





The only good feelings people appear to have are based on the hope that things will be better in the codex

Allow me to be the bearer of the Icon of Despair:

Our Mark does nothing, after seven editions of the game where the mark of a chaos god was a big deal, with statistic impacts that help unify our army, we now just get "Mark of Nurgle means they're dedicated to Nurgle

Plague Marines don't have access to Bolt Pistols for the first time since 2nd edition, despite our background explicitly stating that's our modus operandi

Lords of Corruption and the other DI characters have no options at all

Sure, things might get better with the new codex, but the truth is none of us have any idea, we can only work on the basis of what we have in front of us, and GW changing things so fundamentally in what is supposed to be a get-you-by interim list points to dark times ahead, especially when they backpedal on stuff we got only a few months ago in Traitor legions

Might the codex be better? Sure, but we shouldn't assume it will be.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Charax absolutely nailed it.
 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Rippy wrote:
I think you are confused with the keywords Vyra; you can still take all those things in an 8th Death Guard army using different key words, you just won't get the benefits of the Death Guard keyword for them (not that there is many benefits for that keyword at this stage)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cool name though


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heralds of Corrosion I mean



Vyra's actually right, deathguard don't get access to those units. the entire death guard army list consists of..

Typhus,
Lord of Contagion,
Malignant Plaguecaster,
Noxous Blightbringer
Deamon Prince
Chaos Lord
Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor
Chaos Lord on Palaniquin of Nurgle
Sorc
Sorc in Terminator Armor
Plague Marines
Pox Walkers,
Chaos Cultists
Posssed
Hell Brute
Foetid Bloat Drone
Chaos Rhino
Chaos Spawn
Defiler,
Chaos Predator
Chaos Land Raider

so Death Guard is missing a LOT of staples, like Havocs (which are a bit of a kick in the nuts) Bikes etc.

that said, we know Death Guard are getting a lotta attention in the near future, so it's hard to say what that'll do. there may be some sort of "Plague Marine Heavy" in the works that'll explain the lack of Havocs for example (honestly I hope so. a foot heavy weapons team just seems a very death Guardy thing) we'll have to see, death guard are in for some intreasting times over all.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph





'Straya... Mate.

Your icon of depair was as bad a choice to bring to this thread Charax, as it is in a game of 7th

I have plenty of good feelings about Death Guard, my whole army except heldrake and obliterators fit in the Death Guard theme, but who cares they are not the key word to begin with (or even at all really)/

No ones Mark or chapter does anything yet, again, not a big deal as our Death Guard units already have those abilities baked in to our units. Plus GW already confirmed that chapter tactics etc will be in 8th, so this means nothing.

I was a little sad to see pistols go in 8th as well, but I don't really want to be paying the points for them now anyway, and I feel Plague Marines would be way too good if they all had them with new CC rules.

And I am assuming the codex will be better. I feel entitled to thanks to leaked termies and Mortarion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
He isn't right BrianDavion, read the paragraph next to the Death Guard army list. It says that units from that may change the keyword <Legion> to <Death Guard>, it doesn't say that you can't take those other units in the same detachment using the Chaos and other key words though. It just says that they can't use the Death Guard faction keyword.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/06/01 09:20:32


 
   
Made in de
Cackling Chaos Conscript





Dortmund

Thank you, Rippy, for the input.

The wording on p. 57 is somewhat unclear on this point, at least as far as i can see:

"The Heretic Astartes datasheets listed to the right can be from the Death Guard Legion. Those that have the <Legion> keyword on their datasheet can replace it in all instances with Death Guard. If a Heretic Astartes unit does not appear in the list to the right, it cannot have the Death Guard Faction keyword"


Now it would makes sense to me, that not having the Death Guard Legion keyword would also imply that it cannot be used in a Death Guard Legion Army.

But then again, what is the down side of not playing a Legion force? Clearly you would lose the new characters and models, and with them the only way to get thoughness 5 into your heretics. I might still have to look into the wording of the allies rule, but it might simply come down to an allied force of "new" Death Guard and "old" Death Guard to combine the new and old units.

   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph





'Straya... Mate.

I think the important word there VyRa is that it CAN not HAS TO replace it's <Legion> keyword.

 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept





UK

As I understand it all Death Guard units also have the Heretic Astartes keyword.

So you could field all the generic stuff, plus Typhus and plague marines for example, as a Battleforged army as all units come from the same faction... Heretic Astartes.

It would only be that your Choas Terminator squad wouldn't benefit from Typhus' Nurgle's Gift Ability (which admitedly sucks)... though the plague marines would.

That is my understanding of the situation anyway.

Angels Amaranthine - growing slowly

P&M blog ; http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/488077.page

Currently 200pts 
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph





'Straya... Mate.

Also the Chaos keyword, I agree with your assessment Alan.

Though Typhus can use the Nurgle's rot ability on himself as far as we can tell, so if he is rolling with the terminators it will get used on those targets anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 10:12:50


 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept





UK

 Rippy wrote:
Also the Chaos keyword, I agree with your assessment Alan.


And I guess then that the Chaos faction keyword also allows you to slot a random Daemon unit into your Battleforged detatchment?

Let's hope that Forgeworld's upcoming Renegade Guard list entries also have the Chaos keyword.

There's less synergy between units if we go with the higher level faction keyword, but more variety to choose from.


Though Typhus can use the Nurgle's rot ability on himself as far as we can tell, so if he is rolling with the terminators it will get used on those targets anyway.


True enough. Smaller bubble (1 model as opposed to 7), but yeah.

Angels Amaranthine - growing slowly

P&M blog ; http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/488077.page

Currently 200pts 
   
Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets





so Death Guard is missing a LOT of staples, like Havocs (which are a bit of a kick in the nuts) Bikes etc.
Ironically this IS a return to the 3.5 list. In the old 3.5 Death Guard couldn't take Lascannons, Heavy Bolters, Missile Lanchers, or Autocannons for units on foot with the Mark of Chaos.

With this line in the old 3.5 book. "The Primarch of the Death Guard Mortrarian, trained his warriors to fight on foot relying on their bolters to cut down their enemies,. Loyal to his teachings down the centuries..". As a result you couldn't Mark Bikers or Raptors with the Mark of Nurgle.. Havocs SHOULD be allowed so long as they use Plasma or Meltaguns, so to deny them outright is weird.



Plague Marines don't have access to Bolt Pistols for the first time since 2nd edition, despite our background explicitly stating that's our modus operandi
Actually 3.5 didn't have CSM with Bolt Pistols.. You had a CCW and EITHER a bolt pistol or Boltgun.. But DeathGuard could use their Bolter as a CCW/PM due to True Grit due to just being so incredibly skilled with it.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/06/01 10:34:14


 
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph





'Straya... Mate.

I think we will see re-worked havoks in the Death Guard codex, with different weapon options.

 
   
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator







Well I'm really glad I held off on my FW order of more DG conversion kits and autocannons.

On the other hand, this has totally deflated my hype for 8th. Yeah, we might get better stuff later... that's been the motto of Chaos Legion players since 5th edition. I'm getting really tired of waiting, literally a decade at this point, for the better stuff to actually come.

I guess the upside is I'm going to save a bunch of money not buying all the new gak that I was planning to.

You can never beat your first time. The second generation is shinier, stronger, faster and superior in every regard save one, and it's an unfair criticism to level, but it simply can't be as original. - Andy Chambers, on the evolution of Games Workshop games
 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





My DG army just lost all marked Lord builds, 2 units of Havocs, 5 Terminators with axes and combi plasma, Its bikes, and its obliterators, Nurgle Spawn, 2 Heldrakes and my Daemon Prince of Nurgle,.

Basically I have dirty marines. Not happy. Typhus with Cataphractii armor? that looks nothing like Cataphractii armor? Did they really not have time to write rules for Marks?

I was fine with just Counting my Havocs, Bikes, Terminators etc as Black Legion Marked Nurgle if I had to, but now half my army is just a paint scheme, and a gross, pestilent one at that.

Sure, my Loyalist White Scars lost their flavor too, but I can still field the whole army. My Orks mostly got better, I just lost 'Ard Boyz (which was a major theme for my lists).

Death Guard lost everything except Plague Marines (that I never used anyway) and zombies,

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 12:43:09


 
   
Made in ie
Been Around the Block





Didn't expect to see that so many death guard players had also turned into such massive shills as well. Do you not remember how GW were constantly bringing up how no models would be invalidated in there q&a's and such? Yet here we are. Half of my army is now completely unavailable to me, with absolutely no warning or logical reason.

Okay, let's assume that they release a new version of nurgle havocs, and both their kit and the terminator kit will have every single option that they could take ordinarily. What about my maulerfiend, heldrake and forgefiend that I have put a ton of effort into converting? Do you think they'll come back? How about my dark apostles, or my chosen or my vindicator? And don't just tell me to proxy them as another unit. I want my units to work how they bloody should work.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 12:42:15


 
   
Made in gb
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Plague Marines don't have access to Bolt Pistols for the first time since 2nd edition, despite our background explicitly stating that's our modus operandi
Actually 3.5 didn't have CSM with Bolt Pistols.. You had a CCW and EITHER a bolt pistol or Boltgun.. But DeathGuard could use their Bolter as a CCW/PM due to True Grit due to just being so incredibly skilled with it.


So what you're saying is:

They
Had
Access
To
Bolt
Pistols

...which is what I said.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Charax absolutely nailed it.
 
   
Made in us
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





cedar rapids, iowa

BrianDavion wrote:
 Rippy wrote:
I think you are confused with the keywords Vyra; you can still take all those things in an 8th Death Guard army using different key words, you just won't get the benefits of the Death Guard keyword for them (not that there is many benefits for that keyword at this stage)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cool name though


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heralds of Corrosion I mean



Vyra's actually right, deathguard don't get access to those units. the entire death guard army list consists of..

Typhus,
Lord of Contagion,
Malignant Plaguecaster,
Noxous Blightbringer
Deamon Prince
Chaos Lord
Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor
Chaos Lord on Palaniquin of Nurgle
Sorc
Sorc in Terminator Armor
Plague Marines
Pox Walkers,
Chaos Cultists
Posssed
Hell Brute
Foetid Bloat Drone
Chaos Rhino
Chaos Spawn
Defiler,
Chaos Predator
Chaos Land Raider

so Death Guard is missing a LOT of staples, like Havocs (which are a bit of a kick in the nuts) Bikes etc.

that said, we know Death Guard are getting a lotta attention in the near future, so it's hard to say what that'll do. there may be some sort of "Plague Marine Heavy" in the works that'll explain the lack of Havocs for example (honestly I hope so. a foot heavy weapons team just seems a very death Guardy thing) we'll have to see, death guard are in for some intreasting times over all.


You still have the same faction as they are csm however. You just do not get the benefits of say the nurgle psychic power that makes it harder to hit death guard.

You can call them whatever you want they just cannot be death guard

 
   
Made in de
Cackling Chaos Conscript





Dortmund

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:
Didn't expect to see that so many death guard players had also turned into such massive shills as well. Do you not remember how GW were constantly bringing up how no models would be invalidated in there q&a's and such? Yet here we are. Half of my army is now completely unavailable to me, with absolutely no warning or logical reason.

Okay, let's assume that they release a new version of nurgle havocs, and both their kit and the terminator kit will have every single option that they could take ordinarily. What about my maulerfiend, heldrake and forgefiend that I have put a ton of effort into converting? Do you think they'll come back? How about my dark apostles, or my chosen or my vindicator? And don't just tell me to proxy them as another unit. I want my units to work how they bloody should work.


I hear you brother. It's grim. It's dark. Well, it's nothing new. And i suppose the Death Guard Codex won't bring Daemon Engines or Helbrutes back, let alone Bikers or Raptors. So basically we'll have to hope and wait for a new Codex CSM and hope, that they'll somehow add meaningful marks of chaos back into the game. Otherwise we're pretty much stuck playing dirty chaos undivided.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 13:25:55


   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept





UK

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:
Didn't expect to see that so many death guard players had also turned into such massive shills as well. Do you not remember how GW were constantly bringing up how no models would be invalidated in there q&a's and such? Yet here we are. Half of my army is now completely unavailable to me, with absolutely no warning or logical reason.

Okay, let's assume that they release a new version of nurgle havocs, and both their kit and the terminator kit will have every single option that they could take ordinarily. What about my maulerfiend, heldrake and forgefiend that I have put a ton of effort into converting? Do you think they'll come back? How about my dark apostles, or my chosen or my vindicator? And don't just tell me to proxy them as another unit. I want my units to work how they bloody should work.


But all those things are available to you?

Angels Amaranthine - growing slowly

P&M blog ; http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/488077.page

Currently 200pts 
   
Made in us
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





cedar rapids, iowa

Guys keep in mind the way bonuses work now. Would it really be balanced for a mark to increase toughness or something similar to those units left out?

+1 for enemies to hit dg units is pretty nice, in play testing a terminator would become nigh impossible to kill if dg got them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 VyRa wrote:
 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:
Didn't expect to see that so many death guard players had also turned into such massive shills as well. Do you not remember how GW were constantly bringing up how no models would be invalidated in there q&a's and such? Yet here we are. Half of my army is now completely unavailable to me, with absolutely no warning or logical reason.

Okay, let's assume that they release a new version of nurgle havocs, and both their kit and the terminator kit will have every single option that they could take ordinarily. What about my maulerfiend, heldrake and forgefiend that I have put a ton of effort into converting? Do you think they'll come back? How about my dark apostles, or my chosen or my vindicator? And don't just tell me to proxy them as another unit. I want my units to work how they bloody should work.


I hear you brother. It's grim. It's dark. Well, it's nothing new. And i suppose the Death Guard Codex won't bring Daemon Engines or Helbrutes back, let alone Bikers or Raptors. So basically we'll have to hope and wait for a new Codex CSM and hope, that they'll somehow add meaningful marks of chaos back into the game. Otherwise we're pretty much stuck playing dirty chaos undivided.


You literally have all those things. Just none of them can be "death guard"....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 13:27:19


 
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph





'Straya... Mate.

You call me a shill and then list a bunch of bollocks about how you can't take anything in your army... Even though you can.
They are still death guard, the only reason they can't take the keyword is for balance, exactly as the poster said above me.

Also expect a new Typhus model, in cataphractii armour.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What you have to remember is the Death Guard is a new faction. We have CSM armies, and can still take a CSM army. If that is what you want to do and call it Death Guard, it's Death Guard.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 13:35:46


 
   
Made in de
Cackling Chaos Conscript





Dortmund

Again, i do see the reasoning behind the changes. They do make sense, both from a gameplay and fluffperspective. It's just a quite significant change to the army that i've played for the last ten years.

Call me sentimental.

But pouting won't change the facts, right?

So right now Death Guard is going to be a brand new, slow-and-sturdy, not-quite-CSM army, while vanilla CSM are going back to a very basic but flexible playstyle. Both of those are quite intresting and i still can use the models that i own for both of those armies.

I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 13:38:27


   
Made in gb
Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne






 Rippy wrote:

What you have to remember is the Death Guard is a new faction. We have CSM armies, and can still take a CSM army. If that is what you want to do and call it Death Guard, it's Death Guard.


But that's entirely the point. I can buy chess pieces and call them Death Guard, but that doesn't make it so. I don't mean to be moapy, but for people who have been waiting ten years for their army to come back, or who, like me, got into the hobby after ten years for only a glimpse of light, only to have our army taken away is a kick in the nuts. We've always had the choice to call our armies whatever we want, or play Space Wolves rules with CSM models, but that's not what we came back for. And right now we've been left with a 'counts-as' army, at best, or, at worst, we've ended up with a couple of divided armies. Having had a 2000 point Death Guard army a week ago, right now have a 750 points of Death Guard army, and a 1250pt CSM army. But I didn't want to play CSM, or else I would have for the 10 years I have been out of the hobby. And I think that it is very likely that DG will not get these units back with the codex release, as unit restrictions looks like one of the core ways Legions are to be 'flavoured'. They'll get Blight Terminators and Blight Havocs, but where does that leave the Terminators and Havocs that we have spent considerable time and money making WYSIWYG? In an army we never wanted to play.

Now, I think it's great that there are people here who are excited, as I was when the rules started to be released. And I can even see how this will be necessary to ensure that the Chaos armies are balanced. That was the issue with Traitor Legions, where DG got the best bonuses, and so were able to make all CSM units better. But I'm sure you can respect the concerns of those who feel hit in the nuts that they got shunted out of their army, and outside of the forthcoming Legion rules. Sure, we can call our army anything we want, but that's an empty comfort.


PS: I do feel fairly ripped off. It's becoming increasingly clear that GW gave a couple of Legions, namely Death Guard, extra love in Traitor's Hate to get people to buy into the army, only to have the rug pulled out from them. Yeah, you haven't played in 10 years, but here's some new flashy rules! You spent £500+ on your 2000pt army, and now you're down to 600pts, and have to buy another 1400pts! But it's ok. Those other models can be used. Just buy another 1000pts of those too, and then you have 2 armies! All for the low price of ... exactly what you would have paid to buy two armies. But with the extra benefit of getting one you didn't want!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 13:58:52


World Eaters: 5780pts
Khorne Daemons: 3450pts
Chaos Knights: 2000pts

Sisters of Battle: 5000pts
Imperial Agents: 410pts

Gloomspite Gitz: 7190pts
Blades of Khorne Daemons: 3810pts
Destruction Mercenaries: 470pts
Endless Spells and Incarnates: 1380pts 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Chaos Terminator






Surfing the Tervigon Wave...on a baby.

Ok. Initial impressions.

The loss of Chosen, Terminators and Havocs in a stop-gap list raises some serious questions. It's something that makes very little logistical sense. It's something that is also a bit worrying - sure, we might be getting Death Guard Terminators - but what happens when we get Scarab Occult'd and wind up with a fixed configuration? What happens to the variants we've had for years before them. I have Lightning Claws, I have Combi-weapons, I have Reapers, I have Heavy Flamers, I have Power Fists and several different types of power weapons.

I'll be bloody pissed if our Faction Terminators end up with fixed Combi-bolters and power fists or something like that (similar to the Cataphractii kit not allowing Reaper Autocannons for SM despite the fact that FW Cataphractii upgrades INCLUDE Reader Autocannons).

It's an uncomfortable case of wait and see.

1 for enemies to hit dg units is pretty nice, in play testing a terminator would become nigh impossible to kill if dg got them.


You see, this I call tripe. Because we've seen hints of getting Faction Terminators - if we are supposedly getting Terminators already then that reasoning makes no sense - because our new Terminators are probably going to be tougher, have DR and benefit from the aura. If the concern is that T4 Terminators without DR would be too tough...uh....that's flawed logic knowing we're soon getting a T5 DR version.

I'm personally of the opinion that, until we see a faction book there is literally no benefit to Death Guard as a keyword. You really want to do something with Death Guard as a keyword? Ok, take Plague Marine Troops, take Typhus, stick nearby, enjoy. He's cheaper than the Lord of Contagion and far superior.

Reading through the Legion rules and it's even more WTF.

There's nothing stating you must take an all Death Guard detachment to have Plague Marines as troops. It just states that Plague Marines with the Death Guard legion keyword fill the troops role. WAT.

It's just going to come down to mix and match and a month or so of being 'meh'. We'll live. We were pretty meh until Traitor Legions came along. We've been pretty meh since the 4th ed codex.

Personally? Every time an imperial quips about sub-factions I want to slap them in the face. Death Guard have had a 'faction' identity since the Index Astartes article in 3rd edition. Our faction identity is just as old as Salamanders, Black Templars, White Scars, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, Iron Hands and Crimson Fists. You could argue similar for Dark Angels and Blood Angels as they didn't become 'seperate' Codexes until 3rd ed (they were a shared book in 2nd). The difference is where our Factions got dumped by the wayside, theirs got fostered and grew more and more.

TLDR - as much as I love my Legion identity...feth it. I'll just abuse the faction keywords like everyone else for the time being. Make a few stacking bubbles with different characters - Daemon Princes are great for that, run them with respective different troop types nearby.

It's a shame Death Guard got a list that literally just looks like 'What the Studio army had painted up at the time' rather than what they've had since the IA article in 3rd edition. Let's hope the Faction book seriously fixes this or we see release day errata going 'Oops, our bad.'


Now only a CSM player. 
   
Made in ie
Been Around the Block





 Rippy wrote:
You call me a shill and then list a bunch of bollocks about how you can't take anything in your army... Even though you can.
They are still death guard, the only reason they can't take the keyword is for balance, exactly as the poster said above me.

Also expect a new Typhus model, in cataphractii armour.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What you have to remember is the Death Guard is a new faction. We have CSM armies, and can still take a CSM army. If that is what you want to do and call it Death Guard, it's Death Guard.



Do you honest to fething God think that they're going to give back those units I've listed? And no, my problem here is not going to be fixed by just "saying they're death guard". Whenever they do get legion tactics, the units I have listed won't benefit from them, nor will they have synergy with the rest of my list. So my dark apostle and chosen are miraculously weaker than the plague marines , that they apparently lead? They finally gave me rules for death guard with the traitor legion book, and now half my units have had those same rules ripped off of them for no reason, and you expect me to just shut up, sit down and take it?
   
Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets





Charax wrote:
 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Plague Marines don't have access to Bolt Pistols for the first time since 2nd edition, despite our background explicitly stating that's our modus operandi
Actually 3.5 didn't have CSM with Bolt Pistols.. You had a CCW and EITHER a bolt pistol or Boltgun.. But DeathGuard could use their Bolter as a CCW/PM due to True Grit due to just being so incredibly skilled with it.


So what you're saying is:

They
Had
Access
To
Bolt
Pistols

...which is what I said.
I was going to be snarky in return.. But then I realized I read the wrong unit profile. I thought they had access but needed to swap out the boltgun for it.
   
Made in gb
Ancient Chaos Terminator






Surfing the Tervigon Wave...on a baby.

 VyRa wrote:

But pouting won't change the facts, right?


Actually, raising concerns ferverently can influence things.

Remember their final FAQs for 7th and the backlash they got over the Drop Pod Door Walls, or the Dark Eldar Raider Passenger debacles? And how the final versions didn't include those in the end?

Remember the brief period where Abaddon couldn't become a spawn or daemon prince?

Remember in 3rd edition when they brought back Cult Terminators?

Or when Space Wolf players bitched so loudly at having to use the generic list in the rulebook that they gave them a WIP list one month after?

So, yeah, I beg to differ. Make enough noise and they can change things. They can errata them. They can FAQ them.

Sit here in complacency and nothing will ever change, guaranteed.


Now only a CSM player. 
   
Made in lu
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought






Anyone that didn't read GW's " Nothing will be invalidated" as "Technically, nothing will be invalidated" was setting themselves up for disappointment.
Technically DG didn't loose anything as you can use your troop plague marines and all the units you want in the same detachment.
Your army wasn't invalidated, they're just not 100% DG anymore, which has very little actual effect on your army.
Loyalists are technically still a thing, but anybody not convinced that the are going to be completely replaced by primaris is a hopeless romantic.

I'm in the camp of, if I want to play DG , I want to play DG, not DG and pepsi-cola DG. It's not technically gaming the system, but it sure feels like it to me.
I was under the impression that the index's were 8th version of vanilla codices, to be spruced up by campaigns and supplements, but it seems they're not meant to be taken as serious lists.
They're only there to have something to play with until they remake everything into small factions, that in the case of csm, will have new units with baked in marks instead of keeping marks as a general mechanic.
Which works fine I guess once we get those dexes rolled out, but in the mean time I'm finding the index to be a very poor replacement for vanilla 6th and the legion supplement.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/01 14:31:21


 
   
 
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