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Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

Hey all, I'm in the process of making 2 2.5k lists for a few friendly games and for a campaign, namely orcs and Bretonnia. I'll add my orc list at a later date but rn here is the Bretonnian list I've put together. Looking for some tips on playing bretonnia/army composition. This list is for a couple of stand alone matches vs Beastmen/WoC. If possible I'd like some advice on a more all-comers list as well since our campaign will feature 6-7 different factions.

Lords:
Prophetess (General): Lv 4 Heavens, Pegasus, Talisman of Preservation
Bret Lord: Virtue of Confidence, gauntlets of the duel, enchanted shield, crown of command, dawnstone, lance (may switch out for ogre blade)

Heros:
Paladin: bsb, Pegasus, wyrm lance, gromril greathelm, shield
Damsel: Lv 1 Beasts, Silver Mirror, warhorse
Damsel: Lv 1 Beasts, Dispell scroll

Core:
11 Knights of the Realm: Command, gleaming pennant
11 Knights of the Realm: Command
2x15 Peasant Bows: Brazier, banner/musician

Special:
7 Pegasus Knights: Banner, musician, shields
5 Mounted Yeomen: command, shields

Rare:
2x Trebuchet

So the likelihood is that the beastmen payer will be running the standard herdstone shaman build to dominate magic, I have a feeling he'll be running a blender great shaman build to generate more power dice, razorgor spam for deployment shenanigans and most likely an aggressive infantry core of gors and bestigors. Core to core I stand no chance, really my list is more of a flying circus, my flying units will target his skirmishers and backline units, my Bret lord is going to be all over the shamans/great shaman. He hits hard with rerolls to hit and wound in challenges and can force the opponent to accept, his mount throws out 2 s4 hits+stomp while rocking a 2+ rerollable armour save and a 5++ (against s5 which mot of his targets will be anyway). He's running the crown to prevent him from getting run down after challenges by bunkers. so I'm hoping to cut out his hq asap. Yeomen and bowmen are intended really just to poke down skirmishers/cav/messup movement while the trebuchet do their best to whittle down infantry blocks, s5 pieplates rule...Pegasus knights can use their movement to hit the rear of enemy blocks and help the KoTR. The Knights are really just the barebones core. Unsupported they'll get Rekt but hopefully with the trebuchet Andrew Pegasus knights+wyssan's from the damsel they should do ok. The paladin is again intended for flank charges where he can help win through by combat res, im also planning on using his mobility and breath template to get to advantageous spots of infantry blocks for maximum damage on low armour troops. Prophetess is there to provide a lv 4, I'm hoping for harmonic to go off a couple of times since a rerollable 2+ armour save on my knights could really help toughen them up, also comet would be great against a more static infantry force.

. Any improvements anyone can suggest?
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Seems ok.

I feel like you have a lot of magic users that you may not be able to utilize completely.

I get that you want to get wild form off as much as possible, but you may want to consider dropping one as well as the mounted yeomen and take Grail Knights. Just a thought.

I too have just completed painting my 3000 point Bretonnian army. I have no idea if it's good on the table or not, but to be honest now that Fantasy is just a legacy game, I pretty much just make up armies for fun.

Square Bases for Life!
AoS is pure garbage
Kill Primaris, Kill the Primarchs. They don't belong in 40K
40K is fantasy in space, not sci-fi 
   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Seems ok.

I feel like you have a lot of magic users that you may not be able to utilize completely.

I get that you want to get wild form off as much as possible, but you may want to consider dropping one as well as the mounted yeomen and take Grail Knights. Just a thought.

I too have just completed painting my 3000 point Bretonnian army. I have no idea if it's good on the table or not, but to be honest now that Fantasy is just a legacy game, I pretty much just make up armies for fun.

Hmm, that's interesting. I see your point, the main problem is that the frontline battle is very unlikely to go my way so I'm expecting to lose at least one damsel, that's not exactly the best stratergy to be running from the offset since it's essentially damage mitigation which is never how you want to play it. But as you say fantasy is more about fun right now and a Bretonnian air-force really appeals to me, plus in this particular match up I feel like it works pretty effectively. The yeomen and archers are mainly there for unit count. Single razagors are incredibly annoying and actually dangerous to my knights due to our massive flanks, I want some chaff to guard my flanks until the Pegasus knights have served their purpose and can redirect there. Grail knights I'm a little iffy on. They have decent stats but they seem horribly overcosted and relatively fragile vs high damage output infantry units, I feel like I'd have to babysit them with augments to stay in the fight when I'd prefer to be using my lv 4 offensively-assuming I roll comet.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Well, as per the lance formation rules your mounted damsels can hide in the second rank, away from being attacked by the enemy.

Your massive flanks are definitely a worry, and yes, razergores can be a pain for what they are.

I think you might benefit more from just having another lance formation, and Grail Knights hit pretty hard. Also they have strength 4 and 2 attacks each so they aren't bad at grinding either.

The weird thing about Bretonnia that most people don't think about is that they are actually a much better counter attack army than actual offensive one.

The Trebuchets and Archers make a pretty formidable gun line and the knights and pegasi create a giant "don't charge me" zone of defence around the gun line.

I saw a multi-tournament winning champion (who is in our gaming group) play them like this. Essentially he sets up his trebuchets, archers and casters in the back with the knights and pegasi surrounding them. He just holds the line shooting at the approaching enemy until they are directly in charge range of his knights and multi charges, and punches a massive hole in the enemies battle line. The few times I played against him, it was very effective.

Just some food for thought.

Square Bases for Life!
AoS is pure garbage
Kill Primaris, Kill the Primarchs. They don't belong in 40K
40K is fantasy in space, not sci-fi 
   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

That's very interesting actually, in that he runs a similar build to mine yet with an entirely different intention. The main reason I wanted to play offensively was to shut down the casters asap but that strategy you have suggested could be punishingly effective and I really think it plays on bretonnias strengths, picking favourable charges, you also throw the ball into the opponents court on the movement and positioning front which is certainly not something they'll be expecting from Bretonnia.

I guess my lord build probably has enough power to solo smash small bunkers with wizards in them so it's not like I really need the Pegasus knights as well, and the paladin can poke away at infantry blobs with his breath attack while they advance to support the shooting, I feel like if that's the approach I'm taking it's probably worth dropping the yeomen and a damsel for more bowmen, or maybe as you say a grail knight since shooting isn't particularly effective in this edition.

I'm toying with the idea of using a 40 man block of men at arms supported by a Lore of beasts damsel with the prayer icon. S5 men at arms rocking 5++ would be a nasty surprise
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

The weird thing about Bretonnia that most people don't think about is that they are actually a much better counter attack army than actual offensive one.
The Trebuchets and Archers make a pretty formidable gun line and the knights and pegasi create a giant "don't charge me" zone of defence around the gun line.


This is mostly true, if you are prepared to abandon your trebuchet and attack with the knights you can close the difference, also you might have to. Trebuchet are very effective warmachines being two editions behind in rules and price, but they are all you get and that wont counter other warmachine lists. Orcs make a better artillery army having more artillery and also able to provide a very solid counter offensive line, then you get Empire....

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

I saw a multi-tournament winning champion (who is in our gaming group) play them like this. Essentially he sets up his trebuchets, archers and casters in the back with the knights and pegasi surrounding them. He just holds the line shooting at the approaching enemy until they are directly in charge range of his knights and multi charges, and punches a massive hole in the enemies battle line. The few times I played against him, it was very effective.


Interesting, but it is just another play on the standard build. either counter charge with the knights or charge one part of the line while bombarding the other.
The issue here are the rank bonus caps which mean steadfast is easy to set up, unless men at arms are deployed, which is rarely done and hard to coordinate.

I do have questions about how this bunker actually works. You set up the knights in front of the artillery/archer park? That is going to extend quite a ways up the battlefield due to the length of worthwhile knight lances. You could set the artillery back but then they are one panic test away from routing off the board with no time for recovery.



Switch to 9th Age to play Bretonnians properly. Expanded infantry options and peasant heroes open things up.
You can play them in WHFB but you don't have any real variety in viable list making.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Obviously you have to play to your opponent. If he can out shoot you, your better off actually playing offensively.

Rank bonus does cap, but lance formation does have 3 men per rank. So you can strip enemy steadfast with 12 or 15 Knights in a unit for 4 or 5 ranks. The obvious problem with that is that your lances become terribly unwieldy.

He basically castled in a corner with 4 9 man knight lances guarding the flanks and Pegasus Knights hiding in the back ready to charge out from over top of the trebuchets and archers.

Trebuchets are an interesting thing, they screw with peoples heads during a game. They terrify people and cause them to make stupid maneuvering decisions, and can put real pressure on the opponent to close in quickly, which is exactly where your knights want to be.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/06 21:02:58


Square Bases for Life!
AoS is pure garbage
Kill Primaris, Kill the Primarchs. They don't belong in 40K
40K is fantasy in space, not sci-fi 
   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

I'm expecting a largely infantry based force, if I'm castle'ing at the back I'm hoping I can take advantage of the decent range on the bows and trebuchet to weaken his prince infantry blobs then break steadfast asap with multi-charges and 4 rank lances. The paladin with wyrm lance is another, albeit somewhat unrealiable, block counter. As I said, I'm expecting a herdstone build so it's pretty essential for me that my lord manages to snipe a wizard or two hence the challenge build. My updated list rn is this:

Prophetess: lv 4 heavens, ToP, Mirror, Pegasus
Bret Lord: Virtue of Confidence, Gauntlets of the duel, enchanted shield, dawnstone, Pegasus

Paladin: bsb, wyrm lance, gromril helm, shield, Pegasus
Damsel: lv 1 beasts, dispell scroll, horse

11KOTR: command, gleaming pennant
12 KOTR: command

15 peasants with braziers
18 peasants with braziers

6 Pegasus knights: command
6 grail knights: command

2x Trebuchet


Also as mentioned this is the O&G list I'm also going to be trying out:

Black Orc warboss: enchanted shield, crown of command, ToP
Savage Orc great shaman: lv 4, shrunken head, fencers blades

Savage Orc big boss: bsb, Morks Banner, great weapon, armour of silvered steel
Savage Orc big boss: shrieking blade
Night Gobbo shaman: lv 2, scroll
Gobbo boss: wolf, light armour, dragon helm, shield, warrior bane
Gobbo boss: Giant spider, light armour, charmed shield, biting blade

37 savage orcs: additional hand weapons, command, big stabba
3x 5 gobbo wolf riders, 2 with bows

2x 8 Trolls

Rock Lobba
2x Doom Diver

Was also thinking about a shooty greenskin list running blocks of Gobbo archers with spider banner too but haven't worked on anything yet
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Obviously you have to play to your opponent. If he can out shoot you, your better off actually playing offensively.


Here lies the problem, artillery armies tend to have a good counter offense themselves.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Rank bonus does cap, but lance formation does have 3 men per rank. So you can strip enemy steadfast with 12 or 15 Knights in a unit for 4 or 5 ranks. The obvious problem with that is that your lances become terribly unwieldy.


Even elves can afford a better rank bonus than that, plus insurance.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

He basically castled in a corner with 4 9 man knight lances guarding the flanks and Pegasus Knights hiding in the back ready to charge out from over top of the trebuchets and archers.


Hope there are no field objectives for the game then.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Trebuchets are an interesting thing, they screw with peoples heads during a game. They terrify people and cause them to make stupid maneuvering decisions, and can put real pressure on the opponent to close in quickly, which is exactly where your knights want to be.


That I can believe, the magic term 'S10 with template' causes panic. It is nasty but you can play the odds, you can also shoot the trebuchet with cannon etc, while the Brets lack effective counter battery fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BaconUprising wrote:

Also as mentioned this is the O&G list I'm also going to be trying out:

Black Orc warboss: enchanted shield, crown of command, ToP
Savage Orc great shaman: lv 4, shrunken head, fencers blades

Savage Orc big boss: bsb, Morks Banner, great weapon, armour of silvered steel
Savage Orc big boss: shrieking blade
Night Gobbo shaman: lv 2, scroll
Gobbo boss: wolf, light armour, dragon helm, shield, warrior bane
Gobbo boss: Giant spider, light armour, charmed shield, biting blade

37 savage orcs: additional hand weapons, command, big stabba
3x 5 gobbo wolf riders, 2 with bows

2x 8 Trolls

Rock Lobba
2x Doom Diver

Was also thinking about a shooty greenskin list running blocks of Gobbo archers with spider banner too but haven't worked on anything yet


I don't like this, you have stupid and frenzied main troops and not many of them, your light cav will run away if it is actually on the flank protecting the flank and there are too many characters.

Black Orc warboss: enchanted shield, crown of command, ToP
- Black orc characters are overpriced, also you dont need a general with stubborn, you need a large unit. Besides your main block has a lots++ and frenzy.

Savage Orc great shaman: lv 4, shrunken head, fencers blades
- Standard loadout savage shaman.

Savage Orc big boss: bsb, Morks Banner, great weapon, armour of silvered steel
- Horribly expensive and you cant add other magic items to a BSB with standard (and this remains the case even if you stick to the 50pt limit).

Savage Orc big boss: shrieking blade
- Superfluous, just add more savage orcs.

Night Gobbo shaman: lv 2, scroll
- Ok

Gobbo boss: wolf, light armour, dragon helm, shield, warrior bane
- Lone wolf bosses are there as chaff, keep them cheap and dont spend more points than you need. Either that or give them a magic item caddy role. Ruby ring isnt a bad choice.

Gobbo boss: Giant spider, light armour, charmed shield, biting blade
- Generally better, though I would give him a better sword.

37 savage orcs: additional hand weapons, command, big stabba
- OK

3x 5 gobbo wolf riders, 2 with bows
- Wolf chariots at 50pts cost the same as naked minimum wolf rider units, hit harder and serve as redirectors just as well. Alternately take 20 night goblin archers for only 60pts, have a reasonable damage output in two ranks and resilience against other chaff in four. Most of all they might contain fanatics which means opponents must approach them gingerly.

2x 8 Trolls
- Trolls look like a win button but don't overestimate them, troll vomit is powerful and reliable of itself but at 280pts a unit you aren't getting a good power output. Regen is relatively easy to shut down with the right magic and stupidity doesnt help matters. If you want guaranteed hits take chariots, if you want resilience take black orcs. Trolls work best as a small unit of four in two ranks (maximum attacks on a smaller frontage). You could afford two units of four without damaging the list while saving a meaningful number of points to spend elsewhere.

Rock Lobba
2x Doom Diver
- No problems here.

As for the goblin archers with spider banner, this is also something else that looks better on paper than in practice. Dreaming of the 80+ strong goblin archer unit with spider banner and spider god spell for 4+ poison. Its nasty but the problem is that the poor range of goblin bows means you wont get as many shots as you would like, and if you cut the unit to a more reasonable size then the potential output will be low enough you might as well take another rock lobba.

Instead try spear chukkas, in large numbers. 35pts for a bolt thrower, yes please.
Also consider arrer boyz, their shooting isnt the best but 30 in horde formation has a reasonable shooting output, but they are still orcs and can fight well in melee. I use mine as a shaman bunker plus reserve. Arrer boyz also come in savage, and you can add a big stabba to an savage orc arrer boy unit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/07 02:36:19


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in es
Inspiring Icon Bearer




 Orlanth wrote:


2x 8 Trolls
- Trolls look like a win button but don't overestimate them, troll vomit is powerful and reliable of itself but at 280pts a unit you aren't getting a good power output. Regen is relatively easy to shut down with the right magic and stupidity doesnt help matters. If you want guaranteed hits take chariots, if you want resilience take black orcs. Trolls work best as a small unit of four in two ranks (maximum attacks on a smaller frontage). You could afford two units of four without damaging the list while saving a meaningful number of points to spend elsewhere.


No way. Trolls have more staying power than black orcs. One troll costs one point less than the same number of wounds in black orcs, and regen is way better than a 5+

Plus trolls are faster and immune to stomp. Which helps them even more.

The best thing about black orcs is that they can operate on their own (and those S7 GWs in the first round) but for a main combat block where you're going to have your characters nearby anyway trolls win hands down.
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Trolls are stupid and have a poor power output over frontage.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in es
Inspiring Icon Bearer




 Orlanth wrote:
Trolls are stupid and have a poor power output over frontage.


It's the other way around. Orcs put 4 attacks in 50mm frontage (counting support, 6 if horded), while trolls get 6 (plus a stomp) in 40mm, 9 if horded. Yes, you can get 4 with AHW, but once you count supporting attacks it's 6 attacks in 50mm for BOs and trolls get 6 in 40mm (8 vs 9 if horded). BOs may be marginally more effective against WS3 because of their extra pip of WS, but then again trolls cause fear so it's an even trade.

For a main block it's either trolls or SOBUs (unless you run grimgor)

   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

 Orlanth wrote:
 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Obviously you have to play to your opponent. If he can out shoot you, your better off actually playing offensively.


Here lies the problem, artillery armies tend to have a good counter offense themselves.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Rank bonus does cap, but lance formation does have 3 men per rank. So you can strip enemy steadfast with 12 or 15 Knights in a unit for 4 or 5 ranks. The obvious problem with that is that your lances become terribly unwieldy.


Even elves can afford a better rank bonus than that, plus insurance.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

He basically castled in a corner with 4 9 man knight lances guarding the flanks and Pegasus Knights hiding in the back ready to charge out from over top of the trebuchets and archers.


Hope there are no field objectives for the game then.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Trebuchets are an interesting thing, they screw with peoples heads during a game. They terrify people and cause them to make stupid maneuvering decisions, and can put real pressure on the opponent to close in quickly, which is exactly where your knights want to be.


That I can believe, the magic term 'S10 with template' causes panic. It is nasty but you can play the odds, you can also shoot the trebuchet with cannon etc, while the Brets lack effective counter battery fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BaconUprising wrote:

Also as mentioned this is the O&G list I'm also going to be trying out:

Black Orc warboss: enchanted shield, crown of command, ToP
Savage Orc great shaman: lv 4, shrunken head, fencers blades

Savage Orc big boss: bsb, Morks Banner, great weapon, armour of silvered steel
Savage Orc big boss: shrieking blade
Night Gobbo shaman: lv 2, scroll
Gobbo boss: wolf, light armour, dragon helm, shield, warrior bane
Gobbo boss: Giant spider, light armour, charmed shield, biting blade

37 savage orcs: additional hand weapons, command, big stabba
3x 5 gobbo wolf riders, 2 with bows

2x 8 Trolls

Rock Lobba
2x Doom Diver

Was also thinking about a shooty greenskin list running blocks of Gobbo archers with spider banner too but haven't worked on anything yet


I don't like this, you have stupid and frenzied main troops and not many of them, your light cav will run away if it is actually on the flank protecting the flank and there are too many characters.

Black Orc warboss: enchanted shield, crown of command, ToP
- Black orc characters are overpriced, also you dont need a general with stubborn, you need a large unit. Besides your main block has a lots++ and frenzy.

Savage Orc great shaman: lv 4, shrunken head, fencers blades
- Standard loadout savage shaman.

Savage Orc big boss: bsb, Morks Banner, great weapon, armour of silvered steel
- Horribly expensive and you cant add other magic items to a BSB with standard (and this remains the case even if you stick to the 50pt limit).

Savage Orc big boss: shrieking blade
- Superfluous, just add more savage orcs.

Night Gobbo shaman: lv 2, scroll
- Ok

Gobbo boss: wolf, light armour, dragon helm, shield, warrior bane
- Lone wolf bosses are there as chaff, keep them cheap and dont spend more points than you need. Either that or give them a magic item caddy role. Ruby ring isnt a bad choice.

Gobbo boss: Giant spider, light armour, charmed shield, biting blade
- Generally better, though I would give him a better sword.

37 savage orcs: additional hand weapons, command, big stabba
- OK

3x 5 gobbo wolf riders, 2 with bows
- Wolf chariots at 50pts cost the same as naked minimum wolf rider units, hit harder and serve as redirectors just as well. Alternately take 20 night goblin archers for only 60pts, have a reasonable damage output in two ranks and resilience against other chaff in four. Most of all they might contain fanatics which means opponents must approach them gingerly.

2x 8 Trolls
- Trolls look like a win button but don't overestimate them, troll vomit is powerful and reliable of itself but at 280pts a unit you aren't getting a good power output. Regen is relatively easy to shut down with the right magic and stupidity doesnt help matters. If you want guaranteed hits take chariots, if you want resilience take black orcs. Trolls work best as a small unit of four in two ranks (maximum attacks on a smaller frontage). You could afford two units of four without damaging the list while saving a meaningful number of points to spend elsewhere.

Rock Lobba
2x Doom Diver
- No problems here.

As for the goblin archers with spider banner, this is also something else that looks better on paper than in practice. Dreaming of the 80+ strong goblin archer unit with spider banner and spider god spell for 4+ poison. Its nasty but the problem is that the poor range of goblin bows means you wont get as many shots as you would like, and if you cut the unit to a more reasonable size then the potential output will be low enough you might as well take another rock lobba.

Instead try spear chukkas, in large numbers. 35pts for a bolt thrower, yes please.
Also consider arrer boyz, their shooting isnt the best but 30 in horde formation has a reasonable shooting output, but they are still orcs and can fight well in melee. I use mine as a shaman bunker plus reserve. Arrer boyz also come in savage, and you can add a big stabba to an savage orc arrer boy unit.

I take some of your points, I'm toying with adding mangler squigs to create a more effective threat spam and to guard flanks. The black Orc is for animosity and stubborn is to ensue that expensive star isn't going anywhere, I'd say 40 savage orcs is big enough imo, I take your point about the wolf riders, they are chaff but they're meant for re-direction and charge blocking not guarding per-say. Maybe I'll switch some out for Gobbo archers. Trolls I disagree on, they're fast, they hit hard, they're immune to stomp, their main downside should be countered by the relatively small army size and keeping them close to my general, I also quite like the bare bones heros, it multiplies the cost effectiveness of the shrunken head, giving them all free 5++


Automatically Appended Next Post:
FYI when you say "standard" I can't relate to it since I've never played or searched O&G lists, I prefer to create them by looking at the book myself than weblisting. But I appreciate the help!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/07 14:16:45


 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

BaconUprising wrote:

I take some of your points, I'm toying with adding mangler squigs to create a more effective threat spam and to guard flanks.


First please dont mass quote everything. Its a mess.

Mangler squigs work, they can be very effective.

BaconUprising wrote:

The black Orc is for animosity and stubborn is to ensue that expensive star isn't going anywhere, I'd say 40 savage orcs is big enough imo,


Stubborn is for when you are not steadfast, your savage orcs are going to whittle own enemy units quickly and you can take lots of them. Also look at the Quell Anmiosity rule, its takes a laerge chunk out of your boyz and kicks in to prevent even the positive animosity results. You will do twice the damage the squabbling damage you get for rolling a 1 and the mandatory charge on 2-6 is irrelevant because your block is frenzied anyway.
Make the warboss a savage and plug into the free 5++

BaconUprising wrote:

I take your point about the wolf riders, they are chaff but they're meant for re-direction and charge blocking not guarding per-say.


Any small unit can act as your redirector or charge blocker. The best charge blocker you can have is a fanatic or mangler squig, a minimum unit of night goblin archers is a fanatic waiting to happen, and might never actually happen. Itas also 20 S3 shots for a low pricetag.
Chariots arent very good as they dont flee too good, but d6 impact hits is mean. Chariots tend to win the round of combat they charge on often enough and even though they will lose and flee slapping a long range chariot charge into a unit will put it well out of place from its comrades.
Wolf riders are still worth having though, they provide yet more redirection and are good for wizard hunting.

BaconUprising wrote:

Trolls I disagree on, they're fast, they hit hard, they're immune to stomp, their main downside should be countered by the relatively small army size and keeping them close to my general,


I am going to concede this jouso made his point well.

BaconUprising wrote:

I also quite like the bare bones heros, it multiplies the cost effectiveness of the shrunken head, giving them all free 5++


Now you have them, tool them up. If you cant think of anything take potion of strength and or ruby ring.

BaconUprising wrote:

FYI when you say "standard" I can't relate to it since I've never played or searched O&G lists, I prefer to create them by looking at the book myself than weblisting. But I appreciate the help!


Ok. 'Standard issue' or 'stock' is refering to item combos that are automatic takes for certain characters; it originated in 40K from the vehicle upgrades, notably the extra armour upgrade which was automatic choice for any tank that could have it in the rules of the time and thus was considered a standard issue to have it included straight out of the factory. In your case you dont see a savage orc great shaman with out the shrunken head, so its 'standard issue'. Other 'standard issue' includes a High elf Archmage with Talisman of Preservation and Book of Hoeth. 'Blander' Vampire lord with Quickblood and Red Fury etc etc.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
 
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