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For the command re-roll strategem, it just states "you can re-roll any single dice". Now it doesn't say anything under rerolls about specific players or you can't reroll an opponent's dice. Would you be able to reroll a dice your opponent has rolled or is there automatic belief that if you didn't roll a dice, then how could you re-roll it since you never rolled it?

It could be argued that you are rerolling it because it has been rolled. I.E. You roll to hit and I reroll your roll.

No, you cannot.

DCannon4Life wrote:
No, you cannot.

Why not? Rules evidence would be good. The dice was rolled. You're told you can re-roll it. There doesn't appear to be a stipulation that you had to be the one to roll it in the first place.

Has the question been asked to the GW team? Did any of their batreps include them re-rolling an opponent's dice?

Well, another for the FAQ pile. I would say that as you use strategems in your turn, it should apply only to your rolls.
And yet, that would mean you can force your opponent to reroll his saves, and the strategem does allow you to reroll your saves.

The intent is clearly supposed to be for your rolls, but its not actually all that clear.

I hope not. Messing with other people's rolls are a big no-no in my book.

Back in 7th, a friend of mine tried to rule in that the 3rd result from Strategic Warlord trait (the one you can re-roll reserves) could let you re-roll your opponent's reserves. This was obviously a misinterpretation of his and noone accepted that.

Also, there was another result in that table that specifically called for enemy rolls, so there's that.

Finally, AFAIK this is a permissive ruleset - you can only do what the rules tell what you can do. Nowhere it says you can apply that rule to your enemy's rolls, so why would you?

 Vector Strike wrote:

Finally, AFAIK this is a permissive ruleset - you can only do what the rules tell what you can do. Nowhere it says you can apply that rule to your enemy's rolls, so why would you?

This is a misapplication of the principle. You don't need specific permission after general permission is granted. If I'm about to move my tactical marines, you can't argue that that's against the rules because the movement rules don't specifically give me permission to move a unit of tactical marines, instead just giving me general permission to move my units. If I can move any of my units then I can move any of my units. If I can "re-roll any single dice" then I can re-roll any single dice. Is that a single dice? Then I can re-roll it.

I mean, does it even say anywhere that you're allowed to apply the stratagem to your own dice? Looking at it and the general re-roll rules, none of it ever seems to care who rolled the dice in the first place. I agree that this is probably unintended.

Also this seems to allow dice to be re-rolled more than once. If my opponent rolls a die, I can use a CP to re-roll it. I am then not allowed to re-roll that die again. But my opponent could still use a CP to re-roll it.

 Kriswall wrote:

DCannon4Life wrote:
No, you cannot.

Why not? Rules evidence would be good. The dice was rolled. You're told you can re-roll it. There doesn't appear to be a stipulation that you had to be the one to roll it in the first place.

because a command dice lets YOU re roll a dice. The dice your opponent rolled can never be a reroll if you pick it up becuase you weren't the person who rolled it.

I can go reheat your dinner leftovers for you without being the cook.

 davou wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

DCannon4Life wrote:
No, you cannot.

Why not? Rules evidence would be good. The dice was rolled. You're told you can re-roll it. There doesn't appear to be a stipulation that you had to be the one to roll it in the first place.

because a command dice lets YOU re roll a dice. The dice your opponent rolled can never be a reroll if you pick it up becuase you weren't the person who rolled it.

That's a semantic argument. I can do the say.

A die was rolled. I picked it up and rolled it. From the die's perspective, it was re-rolled. I was the one who re-rolled it. We don't know who originally rolled it.

Semantic arguments aren't going to convince anyone during an actual game. This probably needs an FAQ.

There's no precedent in the game that would ever lead one to believe they can pick up a dice rolled by their opponent and re-roll it for them. That's a ridiculous assertion.

If it were intended to force an opponent to re-roll a dice, it would say that. ie "you can re-roll any single dice or force your opponent to re-roll any single dice."

 davou wrote:

because a command dice lets YOU re roll a dice. The dice your opponent rolled can never be a reroll if you pick it up becuase you weren't the person who rolled it.

A re-roll is defined: "which means you get to roll some or all of the dice again". In English it is really common to talk about doing something again even if you were not the one who originally did it.

Here is the literal, verbatim rule on re-rolls from the rulebook:

" Re-rolls:
Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means you get to roll some or all of the dice again. You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls happen before any modifiers (if any) are applied."

And here's the rule for command re-roll
"Command Re-roll
Stratagem
You can re-roll any single dice."

Since you're the one doing the re-roll, you must now adhere to the re-roll rules, which mention you can roll one of the dice again. If you didn't roll it to begin with, then you can't roll it "again", now can you? You don't get to roll an opponents hit, wound, damage, save, any dice at all. Only your own.

Jackal444 wrote:
Here is the literal, verbatim rule on re-rolls from the rulebook:

" Re-rolls:
Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means you get to roll some or all of the dice again. You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls happen before any modifiers (if any) are applied."

And here's the rule for command re-roll
"Command Re-roll
Stratagem
You can re-roll any single dice."

Since you're the one doing the re-roll, you must now adhere to the re-roll rules, which mention you can roll one of the dice again. If you didn't roll it to begin with, then you can't roll it "again", now can you? You don't get to roll an opponents hit, wound, damage, save, any dice at all. Only your own.

While I believe this is the spirit of the rule, it's a semantic argument. This needs to be definitively FAQed.

Jackal444 wrote:
Here is the literal, verbatim rule on re-rolls from the rulebook:

" Re-rolls:
Some rules allow you to re-roll a dice roll, which means you get to roll some or all of the dice again. You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls happen before any modifiers (if any) are applied."

And here's the rule for command re-roll
"Command Re-roll
Stratagem
You can re-roll any single dice."

Since you're the one doing the re-roll, you must now adhere to the re-roll rules, which mention you can roll one of the dice again. If you didn't roll it to begin with, then you can't roll it "again", now can you? You don't get to roll an opponents hit, wound, damage, save, any dice at all. Only your own.

I mean, of course you can roll it again even if you weren't the one who rolled it the first time. Like I said, this is a really common construction, at least in American English. You have to have encountered it tons of times. Perhaps British English is different.

Really? Someone thinks they can make and opponent re-roll one of their dice?

I will smack them with a trout.

re-roll that.

Dionysodorus wrote:

I mean, of course you can roll it again even if you weren't the one who rolled it the first time. Like I said, this is a really common construction, at least in American English. .

No. It's not.

GW said on its twitch stream you cannot re-roll your opponent's dice, for what that's worth. yes that's not "official" but hopefully that will make it into an imminent FAQ.

 axisofentropy wrote:
GW said on its twitch stream you cannot re-roll your opponent's dice, for what that's worth. yes that's not "official" but hopefully that will make it into an imminent FAQ.

It needs to be FAQ'd. There are plenty of games where choosing the right moment to re-roll an opponent's die can be game changing. I play a ton of Star Wars Destiny and re-rolling an opponent's die is a common phenomenon. It's like re-rolling an opponent's die is a universal gaming taboo or anything.

My guess is that the intent is for you to only re-roll your own dice. I can easily understand why people read it as re-rolling any die result.

There's no need for an FAQ, it's straight-forward and simple. NO!

Under the re-roll section it states you may re-roll. You cant roll someone's die roll for him therefore YOU can't re-roll it.

amhoward wrote:

Dionysodorus wrote:

I mean, of course you can roll it again even if you weren't the one who rolled it the first time. Like I said, this is a really common construction, at least in American English. .

No. It's not.

It is.

eg. You build a castle, an enemy army takes the castle, you then gather an army and retake it.

eg. Resizing an image, you paste an image into a program the computer automatically sizes it, you resize it to how big you want it.

eg. You buy a model off ebay, you don't like how the last guy painted it so you repaint it.

eg. A species dies out in an area, someone then comes along and reintroduces that species.

I'm not saying I agree with rerolling enemy dice and it's not HIWPI but RAW it is possible IMHO. Definitely needs an FAQ.

 axisofentropy wrote:
GW said on its twitch stream you cannot re-roll your opponent's dice, for what that's worth. yes that's not "official" but hopefully that will make it into an imminent FAQ.

Also, that's pretty official in my book


Automatically Appended Next Post:

davethepak wrote:
Really? Someone thinks they can make and opponent re-roll one of their dice?

I will smack them with a trout.

re-roll that.

You got my first exalt!

mhalko1 wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:
GW said on its twitch stream you cannot re-roll your opponent's dice, for what that's worth. yes that's not "official" but hopefully that will make it into an imminent FAQ.

Also, that's pretty official in my book

You can feel it's as official as you want, but some guy on a forum saying that in a live video they saw one time GW said thus is not something every player has access to. GW needs to make a real statement or it's not official.

 Lance845 wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:
GW said on its twitch stream you cannot re-roll your opponent's dice, for what that's worth. yes that's not "official" but hopefully that will make it into an imminent FAQ.

Also, that's pretty official in my book

You can feel it's as official as you want, but some guy on a forum saying that in a live video they saw one time GW said thus is not something every player has access to. GW needs to make a real statement or it's not official.

But it's the official Live Stream of GW as advertised on THEIR Community Website AND promoted on their official Facebook Page, As it's played by THEIR official game-testers. It was said in the official GW TWITCH as well, by more people who officially play-tested the game. How much more official do you need it to be? NO You cannot re-roll your opponents dice roll. There isn't a discussion here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not everything needs an FAQ use common sense and be decent humans versus WAAC players, that's the whole reason we have 8th Edition to begin with

mhalko1 wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:
GW said on its twitch stream you cannot re-roll your opponent's dice, for what that's worth. yes that's not "official" but hopefully that will make it into an imminent FAQ.

Also, that's pretty official in my book

You can feel it's as official as you want, but some guy on a forum saying that in a live video they saw one time GW said thus is not something every player has access to. GW needs to make a real statement or it's not official.

But it's the official Live Stream of GW as advertised on THEIR Community Website AND promoted on their official Facebook Page, As it's played by THEIR official game-testers. It was said in the official GW TWITCH as well, by more people who officially play-tested the game. How much more official do you need it to be? NO You cannot re-roll your opponents dice roll. There isn't a discussion here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not everything needs an FAQ use common sense and be decent humans versus WAAC players, that's the whole reason we have 8th Edition to begin with

It needs to be posted, in writing, as a document that is easily accessible for all players. That document needs to be posted in a place that is clearly labeled as a place for FAQs and Errata.

Keep in mind that 12 months from now the book will still be written the same way and some new player who is not looking through every twitch recording for the last year needs to be able to get that clarification. Until GW posts is in a way that every person who plays can reasonably see the ruling there is no ruling.

mhalko1 wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
snip

But it's the official Live Stream of GW as advertised on THEIR Community Website AND promoted on their official Facebook Page, As it's played by THEIR official game-testers. It was said in the official GW TWITCH as well, by more people who officially play-tested the game. How much more official do you need it to be? NO You cannot re-roll your opponents dice roll. There isn't a discussion here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not everything needs an FAQ use common sense and be decent humans versus WAAC players, that's the whole reason we have 8th Edition to begin with

People might be more inclined to believe it if there was a link to the video, otherwise that statement is worth about as much as someone saying I emailed gw about it and they said this.

Just because someone, somewhere, decides that something is unclear, doesn't mean it's unclear. Nor does it mean that the "question" is being asked "frequently". You may get an FaQ for it (recommend holding your breath) but that hardly means one was necessary.

EDIT: And if you DO get an FaQ, remember that I was right, because I bet a dollar I will be.

 Lance845 wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:

 axisofentropy wrote:
GW said on its twitch stream you cannot re-roll your opponent's dice, for what that's worth. yes that's not "official" but hopefully that will make it into an imminent FAQ.

Also, that's pretty official in my book

You can feel it's as official as you want, but some guy on a forum saying that in a live video they saw one time GW said thus is not something every player has access to. GW needs to make a real statement or it's not official.

But it's the official Live Stream of GW as advertised on THEIR Community Website AND promoted on their official Facebook Page, As it's played by THEIR official game-testers. It was said in the official GW TWITCH as well, by more people who officially play-tested the game. How much more official do you need it to be? NO You cannot re-roll your opponents dice roll. There isn't a discussion here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not everything needs an FAQ use common sense and be decent humans versus WAAC players, that's the whole reason we have 8th Edition to begin with

It needs to be posted, in writing, as a document that is easily accessible for all players. That document needs to be posted in a place that is clearly labeled as a place for FAQs and Errata.

Keep in mind that 12 months from now the book will still be written the same way and some new player who is not looking through every twitch recording for the last year needs to be able to get that clarification. Until GW posts is in a way that every person who plays can reasonably see the ruling there is no ruling.

1. It's the businesses discretion how they make their rules official including putting it in a video you have to find .

2. But yes they should make it easier for people who get into the game late and don't know to look for that.

3. It doesn't change the fact that they said it, so NO to re-rolling opponents dice, This wouldn't have flown anyway because of the image from the core rulebook. every mention of reroll says you reroll not your opponent rerolls.

 Lance845 wrote:


Keep in mind that 12 months from now the book will still be written the same way and some new player who is not looking through every twitch recording for the last year needs to be able to get that clarification. Until GW posts is in a way that every person who plays can reasonably see the ruling there is no ruling.

no.... This is such a stretch of RAW that EVERYONE realizes that any hint that you could do this is an oversight and an attempt at semantic surgery on the rules text to an extreme level. No new players are going assume you can do this, and if they do, ANY other players will address it quickly.

It's like if I was playing a game of magic, and when it was my turn to play a land, I went and picked up a land that my opponent had put down and played it on my field.