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Made in us
Bush? No, Eldar Ranger




Eldar are next, here are the updates and information we have so far:

Craftworlds Preview

Iyanden Focus




Original Post
Spoiler:
With most of the rules leaked now I've been combing the tactics threads and waiting for an overall Eldar discussion to form. There has been some good talk about windriders and Ynnari but I haven't seen a broader "Craftworld's in 8th" post just yet and wanted to get this kick started.

It goes without saying that things have changed for the space elves and it seems we're a lot more balanced than in 7th, which is good. While I'm hoping we can eventually get granular to the point of "which loadout is best" for every single unit I wanted to start by sharing some thoughts on some units that have seen the most changes and see what the impressions were of the pointy-eared community at large.

So, what do you think about (and how would you use)?:

Rangers: Up in price but a lot more potent. With characters being so prominent and buffs essential to most lists they seem useful if not outright good. At 100 for 5 are they worth taking now? How many do you think you'd need to make a viable character assassination unit? Also, for a low cost is Illic now worth it, now that he seems much more consistent? I'm pondering if 2 squads of 5 with Illic will be enough to take out characters, but it certainly isnt cheap. Thoughts?

Nightspinner: When I first went through the index this seemed like a stand out but I haven't heard anyone talking about them yet. It's as cheap as most wave serpents and cheaper than the other battle tanks (falcon/prism). The doomweaver has a great stat line doing 2 damage with a high strength and chance to "rend". Long-range and not needing LOS is huge as well. Anyone think we'll see a lot more of these moving forward (I can't see a reason I'd take a prism over a night spinner now)?

Wraithblades: having played AoS since the start I give a lot of value to stacking saves and buffs (although this has always been true), especially the feel no pain style abilities that affect wounds. With high toughness, 3 wounds, and with the axe and shield a solid invuln save these guys seem ripe for forming a mini-deathstar. My initial idea was 5 or 10 (cost dependent) with a farseer and spiritseer close by. Between doom, conceal, and the spiritseers ability they're hard to hit, tough, and likely to annihilate anything they charge. The key however (in my mind) is stacking fortune on top with conceal which makes them ungodly tough and protected from most things that normally are a threat. -1 to hit is no joke, especially against the high dmg/strength guns that normally have low rof, add in the 50% chance to block damage and then a 5 up to ignore the wound, those 3 wound models aren't going anywhere fast. Definitely expensive, but does anyone else think you could build a good list around it? They can also advance until in range so they're not too slow.

Those are just my initial thoughts, there are certainly a lot of aspects (hah) of the new units to discuss. I'm looking forward to hearing what everyone else thinks and what successes (or failures) you're having. Overall, we may have dropped in power from being OP but I think with good choices and generalship we are still a force to be reckoned with.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/16 15:03:38


 
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan





Raeford NC

I've not played a game yet, so it is all reading and watching some battle reports to see what may work.

Nightspinner: This also stood out in the rules for me. I've run one in 6th and 7th edition and it had it's uses on occasion. I think it will be more versatile in 8th edition. 2d6 shots that will generally wound on 3-4+ is good, in my opinion and has the potential to cripple transports.

Hemlock Wraithfighter: Without vehicle fire arcs, I think this thing is really tough. It can turn and the beginning and end of its move to ensure it won't go off table. With its damage output between Smite and Heavy D-Scythes (which auto hit, IIRC), I think this can be our real character sniper. If you opponent is not careful with model position, this flier can go right past the big lines of troops/models and set up very close to the stray character.

Avatar: A huge Fearless bubble and cannot be singled out unless it is the closest model is awesome if you want to run a foot heavy army. I've got 60 Guardians as the core of my force which makes the Avatar a must take.

Storm Guardians: I'll have to double check, but IIRC, Aeldari blades allow rerolls to hit in assault. While the lowly Guardian does not have huge offensive capability, I think powers such as Doom can catch opponents offguard with how much damage Storm Guardians can put out.

Shuriken Cannon: I'm not so worried about 36" range for Scatbikes. With turn 1 Deep Strikes and the ability to get turn 1 assaults (the ability to use 1 CP to reroll one dice for assault range is very significant), I want to have the ability for Jetbikes to move and retain accurate fire. Jetbikes have Battle Focus, so can move 22" per turn and still fire Shuriken Cannon without penalty (Craftworld armies).

For the Wraithknight fans: For 2000 points, I can run the Low Detachment and the 3 Character Detachment. I get 7 Command Points: 3 Wraithknights, Avatar, Farseer, Autarch. I have no idea how good it is, but if you have multiple Wraithknights.

Autarch: Rerolls 1 to hit bubble. As most of our models have a base to hit of 3+, the Autarch only doesn't provide a reroll for a roll of '2'. It's a bit of a poor man's Guide, but in Matched Play, we can't cast Guide two times, so this may be an option to explore to enhance shooting.

I'm excited to be able to get some games in. From what I'm seeing on YouTube, the game appears much more streamlined and actually containing a lot more depth than initially thought.


For all the GW hate, they've done something right as I've been playing 40K since 1989. Very excited for 8th edition! 
   
Made in hr
Fresh-Faced New User




Glad that someone has started this thread.

After reading almost all the lists and point costs of other armies it seems to me that craftworld eldar will be one of the weaker armies if you bring a classic list (a bit of everything).
I don't see many ways of competing with point-cost efficient choices of armies like orks and tyranids.
Our high point costs combined with other armies ability to deep strike, shoot and then assault our units will result in a lot of dead eldar.
It is still early to tell which army will be the best or worst, but I am not optimistic about our space elves.

Thoughts on some units:

Dire avengers, war walkers and maybe vypers seem like they are not worth taking. They are not bad in term of rules, they are just overcosted.

Striking scorpions and Howling banshees don't seem great either. In Eldar Faction focus article they claimed that scorpions are really good in close combat.
Comparing them to some similarly costed choices from other armies makes them look rather weak. Low strength coupled with low number of attacks does not make a good assault unit.

Avatar seems really solid to me. It is expensive but it gives a relevant buff, it is tough and a beast in close combat, especially against single targets with many wounds.

Farseer and warlocks seem almost mandatory. Their psychic powers make our whole army perform better on the table for not a large point investment.

Windriders seem like they are worth taking. Shuriken cannon looks like the most cost efficient option, being only 2 points more than twin catapults.
Combine that with battle focus and you got a unit that has high damage output, is very fast and does not lose accuracy on the move.

Wraithguard are costly but with 3 wounds and the best flamer in the game look like a solid option.
Put them in a transport, move them up the field, next turn drop them out, advance and watch them melt face.
They roll a single d3 for all their weapon shots, this makes great use of a single command point.

Fire Prism and Nightspinner seem meh to me. Not bad, but not really doing much.
Fire prism killing about 6-7 marines over three turns of the game, assuming you roll 6 shots every time, does not look very appealing.
Other modes of prism cannon may have some uses but I believe it is just not enough damage per shot.


I agree with your assessment of wraithblades and stacking buffs in general. That seems like the way to go this edition.

Small side point/rant:
I have to say that I strongly disagree with stacking buffs mechanic from a game design point of view.
Models giving benefits to other models just by being around makes the game almost impossible to balance.
It is very hard to reflect the ability to augment many units at once in point cost of the model.
How many units it affects, which units, are they affected by other buffs that make this one even better, etc. How to price something that has such high variance in performance ?
When designing these rules and units, you have to assume that the player will take them with some other choices in the army, so you have to make sure that units cost are not too low and so on.
This often results in models that are too good or too bad for their points, it is seldom balanced.
The buff mechanic alone, in my eyes, make for a bad wargame. Because of this I am worried for 40k (in terms of balance).
End of rant.

I am eager to hear what fellow eldar players think of our new rules. Perhaps we can make eldar compete with top armies yet again !
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan





Raeford NC

Great point about the use of a Command Point for the Wraithguard!

I agree with your side point. Give it a few months and especially after a few codex releases and the buff mechanic combinations will really take hold.

I'm really on the fence regarding Dire Avengers. I have a full squad, but I'm also struggling to justify them due to what I see as an overpriced unit. We'll see.


For all the GW hate, they've done something right as I've been playing 40K since 1989. Very excited for 8th edition! 
   
Made in us
Stalwart Strike Squad Grey Knight




Shining Spears are going to be a contender for most improved I'd say.

They're pricy, but hit like a truck now along with increased movement and more wounds.

I envisage my armies to be jetbike heavy (that'll please many people...) With a core of 1 or 2 units of Spears to knock out pesky fliers or tough deepstrikers.

Poor Dire Avengers. Relegated to Shadow War for now I think. Hoping to see them back when an Eldar codex arrives.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




If you really want to field troops I think the best option right now is rangers they offer a tactical advantage with sniper rifles that really nothing else in our army brings and also are way better than Avengers for only 3ppm more.

Units I'm really liking are as follows.

War Walkers these things actually look bloody tough I mean like really tough for their points you actually need to dedicate firepower to bring them down and for a super cheap cost bring w heavy weapons along, unfortunately they do take a -1 hit with non shuriken cannons.

Shinning Spears are these guys finally good??? They have ap-4 s6 and 2 damage an attack using both ranged and melee with the same profile when they charge. They are quite costly though but put out a big punch.

Readers also a finally good unit their damage output is just really good for their points and can really deal death, gives those primaris marines a really bad day.

Wave serpents when every other transport went up in points these guys seem to really have not lost much which is quite helpful especially as they can load up on heavy weapons to.

The suckers these are units I think should be avoided.

Dire Avengers rest in piece shooty bros they have an insane points cost and honestly don't have anything to justify it.

Wraithknight what is that points cost even I would say if they had their 6th ed profile 500 points would be fine. But all their weapons and literally everything about them except wound number took a nerf. Can't really imagine fielding them without a specific plan.

Banshees well lowering their attacks and dropping their special rules doesn't help the ninja girls one bit honestly harlequins are better in every way if you play ynnari and otherwise these girls just don't bring much.

Most units are okayish for the most part in really hoping the fw index adds a lot of our favourite units back in. I'm also struggling to build a playable force especially one I enjoy.
   
Made in hr
Fresh-Faced New User




 Sarigar wrote:
Great point about the use of a Command Point for the Wraithguard!

I agree with your side point. Give it a few months and especially after a few codex releases and the buff mechanic combinations will really take hold.

I'm really on the fence regarding Dire Avengers. I have a full squad, but I'm also struggling to justify them due to what I see as an overpriced unit. We'll see.



Glad that you share my view.

I am seeing a pattern here in our posts : a unit is good, but pricey. That pretty much sums up our codex.
I am also having trouble making a playable list. I am finding it hard to find a balance between enough bodies and firepower.

@Titanicus
I do not agree about war walkers, best weapons are heavy so they lose on accuracy and the weapons themselves cost so much, almost as the walker itself.
Agree about the wave serpent, i have forgot to include that in my post. They do seem good for their point cost, better than fire prism.

@Sarigar
Interesting point about Wraithfighter, i haven't looked at it that way. This is why we have these threads for

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/09 05:21:10


 
   
Made in us
Bush? No, Eldar Ranger




A lot of good ideas here.

The Avatar does look much improved, and 12 inch fearless bubble is huge with morale working how it does now. He still suffers from one of his old problems in that you really need to build your list around him, and he isn't cheap.

The Hemlock looks very solid too. If hard to hit and conceal stack then it's very tough for a flyer. Dscythes and smite will stack wounds too, which with the mindshock pods adds a high chance of extra kills from morale.

Something isn't right with Dire Avengers. It's either a mistake in points or they really are a lot worse this edition. Asurmen and seer buffs can help. They're not bad, just overpriced. But with guardians looking good, and rangers being useful, they need to be built around. I doubt it's worth it.

Pingu. I disagree that we're bottom tier, speed and firepower will always have a place, and we still have it. What I do agree with is that to not be bottom tier we're going to have to focus our lists and not attempt to be jack of all trades. I think wave serpent heavy lists as well as mixed aeldari Ynnari will be strong. I feel like certain units and combo will emerge as strong against the meta. Something like dark reaper spam with buffs and some form of counter melee or speed bump (I think reapers are looking amazing this edition), I'm not saying that's the list - just that it will be something spammy/focused. That's largely for the tournament scene to devise.

You're right there is an inherent danger of imbalancing when it comes to the aoe buffs from characters, some are very strong. But that is where positioning/movement and snipers have a place. I use models with Fly to jump units and assault characters all the time in AoS. You're going to see the same with serpents/bikes/spiders (we have a lot of fly). This is part of why I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts on rangers and Illic.

Also, I think striking scorpions look good, but they are expensive. Without a fleet or charge reroll they're going to get stuck in the open sometimes when they do appear. But I think they'll murder backfield units in cover or near objectives. Which is kind of the point.

   
Made in hr
Fresh-Faced New User




Colgado wrote:

Pingu. I disagree that we're bottom tier, speed and firepower will always have a place, and we still have it. What I do agree with is that to not be bottom tier we're going to have to focus our lists and not attempt to be jack of all trades. I think wave serpent heavy lists as well as mixed aeldari Ynnari will be strong. I feel like certain units and combo will emerge as strong against the meta. Something like dark reaper spam with buffs and some form of counter melee or speed bump (I think reapers are looking amazing this edition), I'm not saying that's the list - just that it will be something spammy/focused. That's largely for the tournament scene to devise.

You're right there is an inherent danger of imbalancing when it comes to the aoe buffs from characters, some are very strong. But that is where positioning/movement and snipers have a place. I use models with Fly to jump units and assault characters all the time in AoS. You're going to see the same with serpents/bikes/spiders (we have a lot of fly). This is part of why I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts on rangers and Illic.


I strongly agree with your view about focused lists. Sadly, I have a little bit of everything so I am not one bit happy about that (also many dire avengers :( ), but that is a personal problem.
I thought this discussion is for craftworld eldar only. Combining with Ynnari requires different approach to list building and unit assessment.

Positioning can only do so much against characters. A Big mek or Weirdboy in the middle of an Ork blob is almost impossible to remove without snipers.
There is nothing in the rules stopping you from putting characters in the middle of units, they do not have to be on the sides or behind.

Side question for everyone:
Do you think we will get our own craftworld eldar codex or will GW only focus on ynnari in the future?
I am a bit worried about this because we have seen the same with AoS, some armies with full ranges are just left in the dust (like Empire) while new factions emerge.
   
Made in us
Bush? No, Eldar Ranger




Definitely a craftworld post, I mention Ynnari just because that will likely be the easiest way to make craftworlds competitive.

You're right, positioning goes both ways, and certain units and combinations lower the risks of it.

We'll definitely see more craftworld books, too much variety, too much established history, and more importantly too much money to be made releasing multiple books. I mean, they announce an Iyanden book and you can watch the wraith sales spike. My guess is they'll eventually do a chapter tactics style book ala angels of death for craftworlds, although there's definitely some wishlisting in that.
   
Made in hr
Fresh-Faced New User




I hope you are right

I have played fantasy for more than 10 years before Aos dropped, now I have 3 fully painted armies sitting in display cabinet (empire, dwarfs and dark elves).
I guess AoS made me a bit paranoid. God only knows why I still buy GW products...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/09 05:57:55


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




What are people thinking about Spiders? I'm not sure if they're worth it after Flickerjump being nerfed and being stuck near whatever they shoot.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User



England

Hi everyone. I am an eldar player since 5th edition, and I have mixed feelings about our army in this latest iteration of the game. I mainly play Biel-tan style armies, so I mainly focused on our aspects after the rules have been made available, so I am going to share my opinion on those. Keep in mind that these are all theory-crafting, haven't played any games yet. So here goes.
Dire Avengers: These are overcosted, but I will still use them, mainly in 5 man squads loaded in a Wave Serpent, mainly to fill troops slot, and lower my drop count during deployment.
Fire Dragons: Well, nothing really changed here from previous editions. They will still kill vehicles and monsters dead. But, because how meltabombs work now, I will always give the flamer to the exarch. He can still throw his bomb when needed.
Striking Scorpions: I think they got worse. Losing their shrouded is huge, and not being able to move after deep-striking hurts them. I would prefer an infiltrate ability, like what the rangers have. As for the exarch weapons, I will try the biting blade over the claw. Str 5 is not much worse the Str6 in this edition, but the penalty of the claw is to big (you can't even get the extra attack for a 6 to hit...)
Howling banshees: Str3 still hurts, losing the no owerwatch ability hurts, ASF is nice. I think I will mostly use them to tie up nasty combat units that can't charge after falling back. -1 to hit from the exarch, -1 to hit from a nearby warlock, and they can make a lot of combat unit very ineffective.
Swooping hawks: I am not sure about these. They have a lot of shots when close range, but it's only str3 0ap 1dmg. They grenades got nerfed hard, they won't do much damage. And the sunrifle abiltiy to give -1 to hit expires at the end of the turn. So your opponent can shoot without penalty on his turn. Yeah...
Warp Spiders: These are bad. Yes, they are fast, but their gone is just awful. it's just a slightly better shuricat. Str6 is not that awesome as before, they won't kill vehicles and monsters, and they will have to sit within 12 inches of their target. I am not even sure they can shoot after falling back (they lose the fly keyword in the shooting phase). I am not sure what is it they are good at..
Shinning spears: Our best aspect in my opinion. They re fast, with assault weapons, they can fire both their weapons at different targets, a unit of 5 will have 5 lance shots and 20 shuricat shots, they will kill vehicles, monsters and characters, put a dent in hordes... They are just solid.
Dark reapers: They are decent. The tempest launcher will decimate hordes, even if they try to hide, they will hit fliers without penalty, they threaten big, and multi-wound models, can move and shoot without penalty... a very useful unit. But keep in mind they are only ap-2. So marines will get a save against them.
Crimson Hunter: It will kill fliers and big models dead. Also a good assassination unit due to it's speed and no fire arcs on vehicles. Solid unit.

Did I miss anything? Did anyone find other uses for our aspects? I would love to hear your thoughts on it (especially on Warp Spiders. I struggle to find a use for them :( )
   
Made in de
A Crystal Tree in the Dome of the Seers






Hamburg

Wave serpents when every other transport went up in points these guys seem to really have not lost much which is quite helpful especially as they can load up on heavy weapons to.

I plan to unshelve my Eldar as in the 7th ed they were a bit over the top.
My old Serpent army supported by Warwalkers and whatnot may have a place at the tabletop. Thoughts?

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




 wuestenfux wrote:
Wave serpents when every other transport went up in points these guys seem to really have not lost much which is quite helpful especially as they can load up on heavy weapons to.

I plan to unshelve my Eldar as in the 7th ed they were a bit over the top.
My old Serpent army supported by Warwalkers and whatnot may have a place at the tabletop. Thoughts?


I think both those units are decently strong but I would avoid low rate of fire weapons on the war walkers so no bright lances but shuriken starcannons or missiles seem fine on them. Wave serpents just seem good take anything on them really and the bottom shuriken cannon is a nice bonus in a split fire edition.
   
Made in de
A Crystal Tree in the Dome of the Seers






Hamburg

Titanicus wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Wave serpents when every other transport went up in points these guys seem to really have not lost much which is quite helpful especially as they can load up on heavy weapons to.

I plan to unshelve my Eldar as in the 7th ed they were a bit over the top.
My old Serpent army supported by Warwalkers and whatnot may have a place at the tabletop. Thoughts?


I think both those units are decently strong but I would avoid low rate of fire weapons on the war walkers so no bright lances but shuriken starcannons or missiles seem fine on them. Wave serpents just seem good take anything on them really and the bottom shuriken cannon is a nice bonus in a split fire edition.

Well, my Serpents used to have tl scatterlasers with underslung shuricannon, and the Warwalkers are magnetized for missile launchers and scatterlasers.
With LP, the tanks or walkers can shoot all the time with the downgrading coming in.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!





Santa Clara County

I have knights and a revenant. Has anyone seen points for FW items yet? If the Knights moved to 500pts I can only imagine the titan will be double...

No madam, 40,000 is the year that this game is set in. Not how much it costs. Though you may have a point. - GW Fulchester
The Gatling Guns have flamethrowers on them because this is 40k - DOW III
 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




I want to push back a bit on some units that I don't think are as good as people are thinking. I actually think that the Eldar overall are in an okay place, but there are some real stinkers here, including some that I think people are misevaluating.

Having played a bit with the new rules, models with 2-3 wounds are very often way overpriced. Especially those with good toughness and saves. They are much, much worse than they were in earlier editions since the heavy weapons that people are going to want to use against them tend to take off multiple wounds per hit.

For example, a shuriken cannon Windrider is 32 points. This is 16 points per wound, which doesn't sound too bad. But many of the weapons that armies will have anyway to deal with high toughness and good saves don't care that Windriders have 2 wounds. Our Starcannon kills Windriders as easily as it kills tactical Marines. A super-charged plasma gun has the same effect. Other common multi-damage weapons include Autocannons, Battle cannons, and lots of long-range artillery like the Basilisk's Earthshaker cannon. Against many of these it's almost like you're paying 32 points per wound, which is awful. This is an extreme case, but a Dark Eldar Razorwing Jetfighter with Disintegrator Cannons expects to kill 5 Jetbikes in one volley, ignoring its twin splinter rifle. Nothing should be making back almost all of its points in a single round of shooting, and the Windriders don't even have that much firepower which might justify their being so fragile. I think Jetbikes are almost as bad as Dire Avengers now.

Shining Spears look a lot better than Windriders at least, and may at least be somewhat playable. Yes, you're paying more than 20 points per wound, and that's on the high side, but the 3+/4++ makes them about twice as durable as Windriders against most multi-damage weapons.

Wraithblades don't seem to me to have nearly as big of a problem, though I don't think they're great. With swords, they're 35 points for 3 wounds, but of course no invulnerable save. 12 points per wound is sounding a lot better, and is more in line with what T7 tanks and monsters pay. With axes they're 54 points, so they're a lot more vulnerable to small arms fire at 18 points per wound, and they're not really any more resilient against AP-3 or worse for cost, so this mostly doesn't seem like a great buy.

Dark Reapers are literally 36 points per T3 2+ wound (the Exarch does add an extra but you're not tanking with him since he'll have a Tempest launcher). That's nuts, and I'm even assuming they're in cover. It is completely unworkable in an edition with absurdly cheap Guard mortars, on-demand Deep Striking inside rapid-fire range with possible charges, and easy access to mortal wounds. Your best-case scenario with Reapers is starting them in a Serpent, dismounting into cover for a 2+ save, shooting once, and getting blown up. They do hit hard-ish. A Reaper averages about 20 points' worth of damage against extremely fragile Windriders. They're supposed to be pretty good against Hard to Hit flyers, but here a Reaper expects only about 15 points' worth of damage or less. Meanwhile a Hemlock -- the sort of thing they're supposed to be good against -- can make back about 80% of its points if there are enough Dark Reapers around for it not to overkill the unit. It's worth noting that the Tempest launcher is a lot better than the Reaper launcher, and certainly if you were going to take Reapers you should just always be taking minimum squads to get the Tempest launcher, but still we're talking about under two Marines per turn on a platform that every army should be able to blow up in one turn with little effort.

I think Rangers look okay in a vacuum, mostly because no one really knows how to evaluate the power of the sniper rule, but they're actually an extremely inefficient source of sniper fire, paying a lot more than comparable options in other factions for not much gain. Space Marine scout snipers are 15 points per model. The Scouts have a better save and T but the Rangers subtract 1 from enemy hit rolls, so durability is probably a wash. The Rangers have a slightly better deployment rule, since they deploy 9" away from the enemy before turn 1 starts whereas the Scouts deploy 9" away during regular deployment. There's no way this is worth 33% more points. Imperial Guard Ratlings are significantly more fragile than rangers per model, with 1 worse T, Sv, and no penalty to enemy hit rolls. They have a similar deployment rule. However, they can move 6" after they shoot, which makes them the only actually-mobile sniper, and this appears to work even after Overwatch fire, making them basically unchargeable. Oh, and they're only 7 points each. So you can have about three times as many of them and, per point, they're much more durable than Rangers while doing three times the damage. It's true that they're only Ld 5, but even if you just count any casualties they take double they're still about as durable as the Rangers against most things while having hugely more firepower and mobility. So if Rangers are a decent pick, it probably means that Ratlings are the most overpowered thing ever.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/09 15:08:58


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Shoreline

gery81 wrote:
...Warp Spiders: These are bad. Yes, they are fast, but their gone is just awful. it's just a slightly better shuricat. Str6 is not that awesome as before, they won't kill vehicles and monsters, and they will have to sit within 12 inches of their target. I am not even sure they can shoot after falling back (they lose the fly keyword in the shooting phase). I am not sure what is it they are good at..


I do believe that spiders can still shoot even if they fall back since the restriction and falling back occurs in the movement phase. No mention in the shooting phase that a unit that fell back can't shoot. So I think you only need FLY in the movement phase to be able to shoot and fall back. Str6 is actually still pretty awesome! Yes you are now wounding T4 on a 3+ but now you are wounding knights and landraiders on a 5+! 12 shots (2 deathspinner on exarch) will still hurt infantries specially with a rend -4.

I think War Walkers are one of the best heavy weapon platform in the elder codex. 101 points gives you 2 brightlance on a T6 W6 and 5++. Does not lose any firepower until all 6 wounds are gone. Also, the have their "scout" move to reposition themselves after deployment and should mitigate the need to move and get the -1 hit modifier. They can carry starcannons too! Those guns are just nasty!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/09 14:59:48


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




 Uriels_Flame wrote:
I have knights and a revenant. Has anyone seen points for FW items yet? If the Knights moved to 500pts I can only imagine the titan will be double...


Haven't seen the fw points yet for any xenos stuff. I'm in the same boat got a vampire hunter and revenant. Can't see the revenant being much less than 1500 of a stompa is 1k. Vampire will maybe be a 1000 I hope not that I hope it's finally useful.

But having seen the prices of stuff like knights and wraith knights going up same with stompa does lead to a points increase interesinglly the Lord of Skulls went down 150 so maybe they will still be usable in games.
   
Made in au
Devastating Dark Reaper




Australia

Its a real shame to say but Aspect Warriors are really not in a good place this edition. Especially not Avengers, Banshees, Scorpions, Spiders & Hawks. Only Shining Spears seem to have made it out with an improvement. I understand they needed to nerf Eldar but was it really necessary to hit units that were already weak like Banshees and Scorpions? Like come on, we finally get a transport that will allow them to function and they become gak in cc....

I predict pure Craftworld Eldar will not see the table in competitive play. Strength from Death is just far superior to Battle Focus, and with it so easy to take superior choices from the DE and Harlies along with the better Craftworld units, why bother with a pure army?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





When the playtesters say they tried to make Eldar bad on purpose, it doesn't fill me with much happiness. But at least they achieved their goal.

Banshees, Scorpions, Avengers, Wraithlords, Swooping Hawks, Avatar, Farseers, Warlocks, Vaul's Wrath are all objectively worse and went up in points. Many of those things were garbage before, now they are worse.

I have no idea how Craftworld Eldar are supposed to actually kill anything, let alone be good at killing things.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/09 17:32:53


"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in au
Devastating Dark Reaper




Australia

 DarknessEternal wrote:
When the playtesters say they tried to make Eldar bad on purpose, it doesn't fill me with much happiness.
Where did they say this? Pretty frustrating if true.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Khaine wrote:
 DarknessEternal wrote:
When the playtesters say they tried to make Eldar bad on purpose, it doesn't fill me with much happiness.
Where did they say this? Pretty frustrating if true.

See the Summary of their comments in the main news and rumors thread.

They premier playtesters/article writers have a long history of hating Eldar, and finally had a chance to put their bias into the game.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in ru
Devastating Dark Reaper




Moscow

and maybe vypers seem like they are not worth taking

I think a lot of people would be surprised when they'll find out that Vypers with 2 SC are one of the most durable and cost effecient fire support units now - bonus points for hit&run and shooting unit that charged them after cause of Fly.
And with Outrider Detachment, it's possible to use them sorta like main troops choice.

For me, the biggest bummer are our tanks. I imagine Phil Kelly himself played Dire Avengers in Falcons that cost when loaded with weapons like naked Land Raiders - yeah, the most playtested edition my arse.

Spinner at least can camp on objectives. Everything else but venerable WS seem like trash. And the only vehicle which can shoot in Eldar army at full BS is a friggin interceptor.

For aspects, haven't run the math but I think Banshees are going to outperform Scorps by far. Peasants will hit them on 6s in melee, and powerswords and rending pistols might do something against elites. They're cheaper than Avengers too O_o

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/06/09 18:49:03


 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




 Shadenuat wrote:

I think a lot of people would be surprised when they'll find out that Vypers with 2 SC are one of the most durable and cost effecient fire support units now - bonus points for hit&run and shooting unit that charged them after cause of Fly.
And with Outrider Detachment, it's possible to use them sorta like main troops choice.

For me, the biggest bummer are our tanks. I imagine Phil Kelly himself played Dire Avengers in Falcons that cost when loaded with weapons like naked Land Raiders - yeah, the most playtested edition my arse.

Spinner at least can camp on objectives. Everything else but venerable WS seem like trash. And the only vehicle which can shoot in Eldar army at full BS is a friggin interceptor.

For aspects, haven't run the math but I think Banshees are going to outperform Scorps by far. Peasants will hit them on 6s in melee, and powerswords and rending pistols might do something against elites. They're cheaper than Avengers too O_o

I think Vypers are relatively bad unless you just can't find a way to take more Wave Serpents. A Vyper with 2 Shuriken Cannons costs 88 points, while a Serpent with 3 costs 143. So the Vyper costs 61.5% what the Serpent does for 66.7% of the firepower. 3 Vypers shoot like 2 Serpents and cost 264 points to the Serpents' 286. Those extra 22 points get you T7, Serpent Shields, 8 (!!) wounds, and transport capacity. If you're taking at least a Battalion you'll always have slots for at least 5 Serpents. Unless you're wanting to take nothing but Vypers you should have room for plenty of Serpents, and even if you do want to take nothing but Vypers each one gives you a slot for a Serpent.
   
Made in ru
Devastating Dark Reaper




Moscow

Don't forget they can be crippled, while light vehicles have to be all destroyed or they'll continue to shoot at full BS.

Everything is relatively bad compared to WS though, since it's somewhat of an anomaly as it sticks out even when it comes to wounds (you'd think every tank would have same 12).

   
Made in us
Defending Guardian Defender




Beaver Falls, PA

My $0.02 I think serpents are really good, the ability to ignore additional damage means that a lot of shooting armies will take a while to whittle them down, especially if they are relying on lascannons and meltas. However they will wilt in assault so that is a concern. I recommend a serpent with dual shuri cannons and a chin cannon, it can move and put out 9 S5 shots and the rend can be useful too.

My worry is eldar will have trouble with horde armies, it is also the weakness of the serpent, even with 8 SL shots it will be tough to kill enough of them. also mass autocannons or assault cannons will be an issue.
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




 Shadenuat wrote:
Don't forget they can be crippled, while light vehicles have to be all destroyed or they'll continue to shoot at full BS.

Everything is relatively bad compared to WS though, since it's somewhat of an anomaly as it sticks out even when it comes to wounds (you'd think every tank would have same 12).


The Serpents can be crippled, but even ignoring the Serpent Shields they have 8 more wounds and T7. A Vyper will die before the first Serpent loses a point of BS.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I just started eldar and the more I look at it, the more I realize that most of our stuff is crap. There's a few things here and there that are decent, but most things are too expensive for what they do. I really wanted to use mostly aspect warriors, but only a few seem worth it.

My army is probably going to end up being mostly farseer, warlock, Serpents, shining spears, and a hemlock wraith fighter. Maybe fire dragons for anti-tank and guardians for troops tax.

Everything just seems really bad to me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/09 19:48:45


 
   
 
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