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Hi everybody,

just wanted to get your thoughts on an army list idea The new IA is out and it's just crazy...

Set up:
This a World Eaters list so 1st turn charge will win the game. That's why I am focused on few units to ensure that I will start the fight. IF I calculate correctly, this list has only 4 units to set up:
1) Rhino #1 (8 Berserkers inside)
2) Rhino #2 (8 Berserkers inside)
3) Hellforged Legion Kharybdis Assault Claw (Khârn the Betrayer and 19 World Eaters inside) -> Deep Strike!!
4) Sorcerer in Terminator Armour -> Deep Strike!!

Game concept:
1st turn
-> Rhinos drive full throttle towards the foe
-> Assault Claw deep strikes, troops disembark close to most of the enemy units
-> Sorcerer in Terminator Armour deep strikes next to the 19 Berserkers and Khârn
-> Sorcerer "warp times" the 19 Berserkers
-> Everything shoots
-> 19 Berserkers multicharge as many units as possible
-> Khârn, Sorcerer and the Claw try to charge, too

Which will leave the ememy facing 19 Berserkers and with a bit of luck, also one of the characters or the claw in close combat in round one and 2*8 Berserks will follow in round 2. Sounds good and super heavy to counter to me.

Please share your thoughts!

You have 4 drops, which is going to make this easier to out deploy. I doubt you'll have many units in reach of that blob and if you'll probably want to avoid shooting since they'll pull from the front. And if you don't get the spell off you'll be in a little bit of peril.

Certainly worth a go. Not sure it will be a turn 1 win.

yea... but the icon of chaos remains in the unit so 9+ to charge can be rerolled and the commando points are available to make sure that the heroes and claw get in close range.

I think the claw is better than a land raider, don't you?

Well the icon cam help out the squad and give them a better chance at making it in, but remember that you can only use one command point to reroll your charge distance each turn so choose wisely on that turn.

Not really a CSM player so I might be missing something here too. Best of luck!

Are you sure the rules for transport disembarking will allow a turn 1 assault?

Theres this thing called screening and deny the witch, but what do I know.

YMDC is not keen on warptime allowing you extra move on the turn you emerge from reserves.

Overall, I think you still need shooting to thin out bubblewrap units. And remember you don't have to bring deep strikers in on the first turn if the stars don't align.

@Captyn_Bob: What do you mean? The Psychic phase happens after the movement phase - so if that's what they're referring to; they should be able to move like normal, right?

Did you realize how flyers hardcounter your entire list?

Page 177 of the rulebook "units that are set up in this manner (coming from reinforcements) cannot move or advance further during the turn they arrive" but then a few lines later calls this into question if the extra movement does not occur during the movement phase. It's still an open ended debate that won't be solved until GW faqs it.

Forgot one thing: you need to roll 8+ for the charge... since you are in close combat when you move into 1'' of the foe.

The point of failing the spell is valid of course, but how to play a khorne army without risk? I don't think there is such a way

The flyers have to shoot up all marines and rhino on the mission objectives to ensure their win... which should be kind of a though call

In any case you people sound like you would drop the claw and the boys inside, get a 3rd rhino and some shooty khorne stuff? Am I right? What would you propose to get?

@Gordon Shumway - The extra move does clearly not occur in the movement phase, since the spell is cast in the psy-phase and the unit may move as if it were in the moventphase. I personally would argue that you can even advance without further penalties, since the unit is not moving more that 3'' in the movement phase and the bonus movement does not specify any penalties for further actions in the other phases.

@CadianGateTroll - where is the section prohibiting 1st turn charges? and the rulebook states clearly that you can disembark, shoot and attack. You just can not disembark, move, shoot and attack...


@Daedalus81 -

Made in us Certainly worth a go. Not sure it will be a turn 1 win.

Of course it won't, but try getting rid of the big blob while fighting off the rhinos in the same turn... I do not see this happening. Maybe vs. Astra Militarum when the deploy 30 plasma guns

I would like to see your opponents face if you pull this off. Berzerkers are terrifying in 8th.

Grommschlack wrote:
Forgot one thing: you need to roll 8+ for the charge... since you are in close combat when you move into 1'' of the foe.

You have to setup MORE than 9 inches from the enemy models, so you need at least a 9 on the charge to get within 8. Whip out that measuring stick and see for yourself.

Anyways, a single Knight will pretty much destroy your entire list. Berzerkers and Kharn are not tough, they will crumble under weight of fire and titanic feet attacks. It's an interesting list but you'll be countered by anyone with screening units, a lot of flyers, a lot of backfield shooting, a single knight, a handful of tanks, their own deep strike units to counter assault, or anything at all that can remove about half your berzerkers in one turn and the rest die to morale. Is it fluffy? Sure. Is it fun? Oh yeah. Will you win against TAC lists? Probably not.

Grommschlack wrote:
Forgot one thing: you need to roll 8+ for the charge... since you are in close combat when you move into 1'' of the foe.

The point of failing the spell is valid of course, but how to play a khorne army without risk? I don't think there is such a way

The flyers have to shoot up all marines and rhino on the mission objectives to ensure their win... which should be kind of a though call

In any case you people sound like you would drop the claw and the boys inside, get a 3rd rhino and some shooty khorne stuff? Am I right? What would you propose to get?

@Gordon Shumway - The extra move does clearly not occur in the movement phase, since the spell is cast in the psy-phase and the unit may move as if it were in the moventphase. I personally would argue that you can even advance without further penalties, since the unit is not moving more that 3'' in the movement phase and the bonus movement does not specify any penalties for further actions in the other phases.

@CadianGateTroll - where is the section prohibiting 1st turn charges? and the rulebook states clearly that you can disembark, shoot and attack. You just can not disembark, move, shoot and attack...


@Daedalus81 -

Made in us Certainly worth a go. Not sure it will be a turn 1 win.

Of course it won't, but try getting rid of the big blob while fighting off the rhinos in the same turn... I do not see this happening. Maybe vs. Astra Militarum when the deploy 30 plasma guns

I wasn't saying it wouldn't be legal (I think it would and I am planning on playing it that way with my warp talons), only answering the question as to why others thought it wouldn't that was asked.

I don't think you'd be able to drive the rhinos up and then disembark.

"Disembark: Any unit that begins its Movement phase embarked
within a transport can disembark before the transport moves. "

I don't have the chaos index, so I don't know if World Eaters have any kind of special rule that negates this.

I just calculated this for fun. One Space Marine Fire Raptor (418 points) would win vs your entire list, he would need 5 rounds though

Okay a couple things.

First Dark Apostle is better for full melee Zerkers.

Second you want multiple squads in the Kharybdis. Specifically 2 units of 9 with 1 Sorcerer and 1 Dark Apostle.

Have the Sorc cast warp time on a Rhino rather then the Zerker squads.

Fill the Rhino with as many PP as you can get. Bring a DP with wings to follow them in. This is your anti tank unit.

Not sure where that leaves you points wise, but im certain that isn't much more then 1k.

As a note you really want to pick a job for the Zerkers to do and out fit them for that job.

Do not stick Kharn in a place where a single (or a couple) bad roll(s) can get him killed in shooting. He runs through Tanks like there not there. I know that model looks like a Leman Russ but its actually a free 3" move for Kharn.

Umm, oh. This will work a few times, but once peole figure out you need that initial charge they will bring chaff to absorb the inital hit and then ruin you day with shooting.

Effective overwatch, and large numbers of psykers will ruin your day as well so watch out for that.

It's a good first strike but hard to pull off. My current tzeentch army runs 140 brimstone horrors that i can easily fan out and force you to deepstrike out of my deployment and then you'd be charging into horrors. I then use the 9 smites to cripple your big unit that charged if not out and out kill it with my shooting. After that it's just a matter of cleaning up.

Against non blob armies it'll work great but anyone who can prepare for a deepstrike is gonna be ready for it.

Play tested this... It's complete crap The drop goes anywhere it is not supposed to.

Thanks for your feedback guys!