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I've been doing quite a bit of research and got a chance to play my marines who feel about the same. It seems right now orks and tyranids are at the top. what lists are people seeing that are doing extremely well?

TBH, I think it's way too early to tell who is the top dog at the moment. I got a chance to play in a very competitive RTT and I went 1-2 with my Nids (which I believe were a pretty competitive version of Tyranids).

Now, I was playing against some very good players in my defense, and I had a bad matchup against Tau drone spam. The other game I lost was definitely winnable. And truly, that's a small sample size. But the other Tyranid player (whom had a slightly more optimized version of my list) also went 1-2, playing 3 people that I didn't play at all.

Not saying that I think Tyranids or Orks are bad. Just saying it's still not even a week into the new edition, even though many of us have been playing for at least 2 weeks now.

Once the meta settles a bit in a month or so, I think it'll be fair to say who is strong in response to that. I'm super excited to see the first GT of 8th (is it NOVA?) because that'll give us a ton of tournament-level data.

Tyranids had their (our) week as the scariest thing in 40k, but that has passed, as expected, since players learned the new mechanics, and how to bubble-wrap, retreat from combat selectively, etc...

At the events I have been to thus far, it is ALL about Roboute's parking lot (all AC Razorbacks/Las Preds, re-rolling everything, bubble-wrapped with anti-deepstrike Scouts), or Scion Spam.

Both rely almost entirely on a couple dramatically under-costed units/weapons, and require zero actual play skill to do well. :-p It'll be a perfect test for the supposedly "responsive" "we-will-adjust-points-as-needed" GW, as both could be nerfed over-night with only the most minor of point increases.

You know thought, I played against a Cawl-led mechanicus army like that. I literally thought I was going to get tabled turn 2 (I was playing CSM), mostly because he has the uncanny ability to roll 4+ to hits like they're 2+ to hits. Like in stupid big batches of dice too. I know he's not cheating, but man it's insane....doesn't even need the re-rolls.

But then I broke his lines and the battle turned. Was a kill point mission that I wound up winning 13-3. I got all 3 tertiaries and he got none.

 luke1705 wrote:
You know thought, I played against a Cawl-led mechanicus army like that. I literally thought I was going to get tabled turn 2 (I was playing CSM), mostly because he has the uncanny ability to roll 4+ to hits like they're 2+ to hits. Like in stupid big batches of dice too. I know he's not cheating, but man it's insane....doesn't even need the re-rolls.

But then I broke his lines and the battle turned. Was a kill point mission that I wound up winning 13-3. I got all 3 tertiaries and he got none.

It definitely depends on the table, and Cawl is a chump compared to Booty, but I see your point. Problem with a Bad Bobby G version is that if you break their line, he breaks your face. :-p

He is better counter-assault. Is also more points but you're right I think he's very well-costed for his abilities

Rawfish Gutterdink is pretty dominant. His stat line is insane and he is really cheap for what he brings. He is supported by Razorbacks, Laspreds, and GunDreads that bring out more gunline firepower for cheaper than Tau could even dream about.

Next up comes the Guard. Shockingly cheap bodies while still having incredibly effective shooting.

Tyranids rank up in 3rd. If you want to play assault, Tyranids is where to be at the moment. Their extremely fast assault is further supported with surprisingly great shooting.

Slipping in with another T, comes the 'au (Tau)... Altho their heavier options such as Broadsides and Missile Pods are insanely expensive. Their light options have received pretty insane buffs. Especially the Gun Drones that basically blow up everything.

After these 4 clearly superior forces the water becomes a lot murkier.

I believe the Necrons are next and probably followed by Eldar & Drew Carey. This finishes off the pack at Chaos at Last?

I dunno chaos feels a lot stronger now.

Death guard and flipping pox walkers seem REALLY good.

it might all be very situational but so far it doesnt feel like any of the armies are too far off center.

 Desubot wrote:
I dunno chaos feels a lot stronger now.

Death guard and flipping pox walkers seem REALLY good.

it might all be very situational but so far it doesnt feel like any of the armies are too far off center.

So, what does that mean?

That they are likely stronger than Riddlebiddle Gumpynickle?

 Talamare wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
I dunno chaos feels a lot stronger now.

Death guard and flipping pox walkers seem REALLY good.

it might all be very situational but so far it doesnt feel like any of the armies are too far off center.

So, what does that mean?

That they are likely stronger than Riddlebiddle Gumpynickle?

dont have rowboat girlyman nor do i ever want to paint my banana marines blue

but a big blob of pox walkers next to typhus was pretty much the most annoying unit i had to deal with ever.

that and i threw a assault unit into it which after the corse of being stuck for two turns only ended up killing 1 model before being wiped out.

I'm quite enjoying spamming brimstone horrors that can summon other brimstone horrors when other brimstone horrors die.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm quite enjoying spamming brimstone horrors that can summon other brimstone horrors when other brimstone horrors die.

wait what?

 Desubot wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm quite enjoying spamming brimstone horrors that can summon other brimstone horrors when other brimstone horrors die.

wait what?

That's exactly what I said!

 Desubot wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm quite enjoying spamming brimstone horrors that can summon other brimstone horrors when other brimstone horrors die.

wait what?

Everyone is panicking about Guard so much that Tzeentch being just as much of a horde army terror kinda slipped under the radar.

 Desubot wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm quite enjoying spamming brimstone horrors that can summon other brimstone horrors when other brimstone horrors die.

wait what?

Brimstone Horrors. It's 20pts for 10 of Them, they all have a 4++.

You park an Exalted flamer near them, or any other unit that can summon, and as it's a character it cant be targetted. As screens of Brimstones slowly die, you can just summon them back for 20 points a pop.

(You do 1 Blue 9 Brimstone, which is 23 points, but the point remains.)

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm quite enjoying spamming brimstone horrors that can summon other brimstone horrors when other brimstone horrors die.

wait what?

Brimstone Horrors. It's 20pts for 10 of Them, they all have a 4++.

You park an Exalted flamer near them, or any other unit that can summon, and as it's a character it cant be targetted. As screens of Brimstones slowly die, you can just summon them back for 20 points a pop.

(You do 1 Blue 9 Brimstone, which is 23 points, but the point remains.)

unless you are playing mega casual dont you have to buy them? meaning you have extra points left for brimestones in the sideboard to summon up?

Sure. You pay for them. However, it's literally 100 points for 50 Brimstone horror models, all with a 4++. It's pretty easy to leave 69 points aside to "refresh" three squads of 1 Blue 9 Brimstone during the game.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Sure. You pay for them. However, it's literally 100 points for 50 Brimstone horror models, all with a 4++. It's pretty easy to leave 69 points aside to "refresh" three squads of 1 Blue 9 Brimstone during the game.

Jesus thats it?

sick.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Sure. You pay for them. However, it's literally 100 points for 50 Brimstone horror models, all with a 4++. It's pretty easy to leave 69 points aside to "refresh" three squads of 1 Blue 9 Brimstone during the game.

"The most playtested edition of all time!"

I think 8th is like AoS.

You have some broken combos that dominates the most competitive meta (That I expect to be adressed as fast as they can)

But at the same time, the playing field for everyone else is much more balanced between armies. Some are weaker, some are stronger, but everyone has a chance if you put aside the typical 3-4 broken combos.

But... that happens everywhere. Go to a MTG, X-wing or Infinity (Here not so much, but still) tournament and enjoy the copypasta and netlists In a competitive enviroment, if something is 10% less powerfull, it just isn't good enough.

It's a pretty decent trade off considering that pretty much every daemons unit lost deep strike, and that summoning is no guarantee, even with a command re-roll. So if you fail to summon by turn 3, they auto die. And if you summon on turn 1 while going first....it's kind of pretty much the same thing as deploying them with a little bonus movement.

Contrast that with most other armies. Reserving your models? OK just choose with 100% precision what turn they come in on.

2 points for a 4++ wound is bonkers, not gonna lie. But many other armies have 3 pt, 4 pt or 5 pt models, some of which have 5+ or 4+ saves. The invuln is nice don't get more wrong. But how often is your opponent shooting your chaff infantry with rend -2 weapons? Probably almost never.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:
I think 8th is like AoS.

You have some broken combos that dominates the most competitive meta (That I expect to be adressed as fast as they can)

This is the biggest difference I see. With chapter approved and such, they actually COULD just make the brims, say 3 or 4 points a model if they were dominating the competitive meta.

Plus, I think that the disparity between top tier broken and stuff that normal competitive players would bring to a tournament is MUCH smaller than it used to be. This is just my suspicion right now, but time will tell.

 Desubot wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Sure. You pay for them. However, it's literally 100 points for 50 Brimstone horror models, all with a 4++. It's pretty easy to leave 69 points aside to "refresh" three squads of 1 Blue 9 Brimstone during the game.

Jesus thats it?

sick.

I mean, to be fair, they don't really DO anything. they're just bodies. They're great little bodies, though.

Smite spam is not horrible, even if you only get a cast 1/3 of the time. But yeah ablative wounds is what they are first and foremost. And that gets even more sick with the changeling making them -1 to hit....although that does cost 100 points. But man it's bonkers

I don't know if anyone has played against the new Sisters of Battle, but they are extremely strong. Multiple acts of faith a turn, lot's of melta to pop any vehicle. Saint Celestine is a huge tar pit that comes back on a 2+, and those penitent engines that can attack twice a turn on a 4+. I play SW's and my room mate plays Sisters and every game we have played so far, which is 5 games, he has had the game won by turn 3. They are very competitive and hard to beat.

Have you tried changing up your list to deal with what your friend is bringing? I wouldn't normally recommend list tailoring, but clearly there's something that your list can't do (beat his army). I'd hazard a guess that maybe you can't adequately deal with vehicles? Or maybe it's just the volume of bodies he's putting out.

That brimstone smite spam is something I never want to play against again *shudders*. I think my opponent had something like 10 squads of them backed by flying DPs, blue scribes, changeling and a LoC: was not fun (for me).
Every other game so far has feel pretty even, with it going back and forth between turns. That Tzeentch list is the only time it's felt like something was really not balanced, and that could easily be fixed by limiting the Daemon's smite to a watered-down version like it is for Eldar/Grey Knights.

Well it is watered down. The horrors only cast with 1d6. But that being said, you got played by the core of an army that could very well win a GT. So don't feel bad. He should feel bad for taking that army, but it's tough because sometimes people just see things and say "hey that sounds pretty good!" without a way of really knowing the difference between "pretty good army" and "top tier competitive army". It can be a fine line unless the player really knows the game well.

I would say daemons with Tzeentch, followed by Guard, followed by everybody else. Which really is a pretty good order.

 luke1705 wrote:
Have you tried changing up your list to deal with what your friend is bringing? I wouldn't normally recommend list tailoring, but clearly there's something that your list can't do (beat his army). I'd hazard a guess that maybe you can't adequately deal with vehicles? Or maybe it's just the volume of bodies he's putting out.

I have quite a bit. Tried more range support, tried fast attack, tried running a lot more vehicles and the mix of their melta, and fast units it's impossible for me to get to the targets I need to. Sisters are just very strong this edition. Acts of faith really change the game and quickly. They can move like the movement phase, pile in and attack or shoot like it's the shooting phase. The last game we played I watched all 3 of my dreads die in 2 turns to acts of faith and normal shooting while my other melee was bogged down with his fast attack units so they couldn't move. It is very hard to counter when they can be anywhere on the board in a turn.

Nottino wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Have you tried changing up your list to deal with what your friend is bringing? I wouldn't normally recommend list tailoring, but clearly there's something that your list can't do (beat his army). I'd hazard a guess that maybe you can't adequately deal with vehicles? Or maybe it's just the volume of bodies he's putting out.

I have quite a bit. Tried more range support, tried fast attack, tried running a lot more vehicles and the mix of their melta, and fast units it's impossible for me to get to the targets I need to. Sisters are just very strong this edition. Acts of faith really change the game and quickly. They can move like the movement phase, pile in and attack or shoot like it's the shooting phase. The last game we played I watched all 3 of my dreads die in 2 turns to acts of faith and normal shooting while my other melee was bogged down with his fast attack units so they couldn't move. It is very hard to counter when they can be anywhere on the board in a turn.

I took a glance at it, and I have to say...

I think the problem is that the balancer for Sisters was like...

Oh, Acts of Faiths are basically their version of Orders... So let's make them be able to use them as often as Orders!

So now a dude can basically hand out additional Movement/Shooting/Fighting phases for insanely cheap.
The saddest part is that a lot of other armies are calling their best Psyker spells ones that do only 1 of those things...
While Sisters have the versatility to do what they want. Definitely poorly designed.