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Made in us
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Sioux Falls, SD

Since old Marines can be upgraded into Primaris Marines, would you be okay if classic Space Marine characters were upgraded into Primaris Space Marines? Pedro Kantor in Tacticus Armor, Shrike as an Inceptor with Lightning Claws, Calgar in Gravis Armor, and so on and so forth.

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But no one has been "upgraded" in the Index ....

Where and when would they change the known characters ?

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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Since old Marines can be upgraded into Primaris Marines, would you be okay if classic Space Marine characters were upgraded into Primaris Space Marines? Pedro Kantor in Tacticus Armor, Shrike as an Inceptor with Lightning Claws, Calgar in Gravis Armor, and so on and so forth.


depends on the model but sure why not. that said IMHO it's unnesscary, the upgrades named characters would receive would be pretty minimal, and in Calgar's case, going from a 2+ save to a 3+ would be a loss.

given that a Primaris Marine only has one extra attack and Wound over a regular marine, that seems to carry over into characters, the upgrade to named special characters would be pretty minimal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 1hadhq wrote:
But no one has been "upgraded" in the Index ....

Where and when would they change the known characters ?


[presumably in a new codex. thing is the Index isn't the place to provide rules for a new status quo etc. it's simply a set of "use the models that you have" starter rules.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/25 10:50:42


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Sioux Falls, SD

We haven't seen a named character in Mk X yet. Perhaps there is an artificer variant of the Gravis or Tacticus Armor. Maybe even an additional set type that trades the Toughness augmentation for an armor augmentation.

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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
We haven't seen a named character in Mk X yet. Perhaps there is an artificer variant of the Gravis or Tacticus Armor. Maybe even an additional set type that trades the Toughness augmentation for an armor augmentation.


I imagine we'll eventually get a named Primaris character but have a hunch it'll be someone new, Maybe Felix from Dark Imperium

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Sioux Falls, SD

BrianDavion wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
We haven't seen a named character in Mk X yet. Perhaps there is an artificer variant of the Gravis or Tacticus Armor. Maybe even an additional set type that trades the Toughness augmentation for an armor augmentation.


I imagine we'll eventually get a named Primaris character but have a hunch it'll be someone new, Maybe Felix from Dark Imperium
True. There has already been a vocal group of people asking for stats on him on Facebook.

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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
We haven't seen a named character in Mk X yet. Perhaps there is an artificer variant of the Gravis or Tacticus Armor. Maybe even an additional set type that trades the Toughness augmentation for an armor augmentation.


I imagine we'll eventually get a named Primaris character but have a hunch it'll be someone new, Maybe Felix from Dark Imperium
True. There has already been a vocal group of people asking for stats on him on Facebook.


Honestly I'd be kinda down for a "codex: Ultramar" that provided specific rules for usitlizing an army made up of the various military aspects defending Ultramar. Ultrimares (and some of the progenator chapters) guard. etc.

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BrianDavion wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
We haven't seen a named character in Mk X yet. Perhaps there is an artificer variant of the Gravis or Tacticus Armor. Maybe even an additional set type that trades the Toughness augmentation for an armor augmentation.


I imagine we'll eventually get a named Primaris character but have a hunch it'll be someone new, Maybe Felix from Dark Imperium
True. There has already been a vocal group of people asking for stats on him on Facebook.


Honestly I'd be kinda down for a "codex: Ultramar" that provided specific rules for usitlizing an army made up of the various military aspects defending Ultramar. Ultrimares (and some of the progenator chapters) guard. etc.


Nine thousand chapters of Space Marines with no fluff or background and you are wanting more Smurfs? feth that.

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Perhaps not technically a Marine Chapter anymore, but the Flame Falcons would be pretty creepy to fight.

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 EmpNortonII wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
We haven't seen a named character in Mk X yet. Perhaps there is an artificer variant of the Gravis or Tacticus Armor. Maybe even an additional set type that trades the Toughness augmentation for an armor augmentation.


I imagine we'll eventually get a named Primaris character but have a hunch it'll be someone new, Maybe Felix from Dark Imperium
True. There has already been a vocal group of people asking for stats on him on Facebook.


Honestly I'd be kinda down for a "codex: Ultramar" that provided specific rules for usitlizing an army made up of the various military aspects defending Ultramar. Ultrimares (and some of the progenator chapters) guard. etc.


Nine thousand chapters of Space Marines with no fluff or background and you are wanting more Smurfs? feth that.


Ultramar is more then just "the Smurfs" and ya know if people are gonna complain about the Ultramarines being vanilla and boring etc, I'd rather GW took the time to flesh them out to a point they are less so. not every chapter can be made intreasting by throwing wolf in it's name and a +1 to it's stats

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There's no point in the background mentioning existing marines can be upgraded unless GW were planning on upgrading some existing marines, and seeing as normal grunts being upgraded wouldn't really matter, I imagine we'll see some Primaris characters down the line, perhaps even a "Legacy" and "Primaris" version to choose from.

My bets would be Mephiston, Calgar, Canto

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BrianDavion wrote:
 EmpNortonII wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
We haven't seen a named character in Mk X yet. Perhaps there is an artificer variant of the Gravis or Tacticus Armor. Maybe even an additional set type that trades the Toughness augmentation for an armor augmentation.


I imagine we'll eventually get a named Primaris character but have a hunch it'll be someone new, Maybe Felix from Dark Imperium
True. There has already been a vocal group of people asking for stats on him on Facebook.


Honestly I'd be kinda down for a "codex: Ultramar" that provided specific rules for usitlizing an army made up of the various military aspects defending Ultramar. Ultrimares (and some of the progenator chapters) guard. etc.


Nine thousand chapters of Space Marines with no fluff or background and you are wanting more Smurfs? feth that.


Ultramar is more then just "the Smurfs" and ya know if people are gonna complain about the Ultramarines being vanilla and boring etc, I'd rather GW took the time to flesh them out to a point they are less so. not every chapter can be made intreasting by throwing wolf in it's name and a +1 to it's stats


Ultramarines will always be boring. Hell, they were boring during the Heresy. "We were surprise attacked like every other Chapter but had no doubters in our ranks or important people die or any troubles at all la la la except for that one guy we were going to punish for already thinking about how to fight other Space Marines." Ultramarines fething suck. Rowboat Girlyman needs to die for the new fluff to be interesting at all. [MOD EDIT - Inappropriate content removed - please find a different way to express yourself. - Alpharius]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/28 14:13:03


 Jon Garrett wrote:
Perhaps not technically a Marine Chapter anymore, but the Flame Falcons would be pretty creepy to fight.

"Boss, we waz out lookin' for grub when some of them Spice Marines showed up and shot all the lads."

"Right. Well, did you at least use the burnas?"

"We tried, but the gits was already on fire."

"...Kunnin'."
 
   
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 EmpNortonII wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 EmpNortonII wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
We haven't seen a named character in Mk X yet. Perhaps there is an artificer variant of the Gravis or Tacticus Armor. Maybe even an additional set type that trades the Toughness augmentation for an armor augmentation.


I imagine we'll eventually get a named Primaris character but have a hunch it'll be someone new, Maybe Felix from Dark Imperium
True. There has already been a vocal group of people asking for stats on him on Facebook.


Honestly I'd be kinda down for a "codex: Ultramar" that provided specific rules for usitlizing an army made up of the various military aspects defending Ultramar. Ultrimares (and some of the progenator chapters) guard. etc.


Nine thousand chapters of Space Marines with no fluff or background and you are wanting more Smurfs? feth that.


Ultramar is more then just "the Smurfs" and ya know if people are gonna complain about the Ultramarines being vanilla and boring etc, I'd rather GW took the time to flesh them out to a point they are less so. not every chapter can be made intreasting by throwing wolf in it's name and a +1 to it's stats


Ultramarines will always be boring. Hell, they were boring during the Heresy. "We were surprise attacked like every other Chapter but had no doubters in our ranks or important people die or any troubles at all la la la except for that one guy we were going to punish for already thinking about how to fight other Space Marines." Ultramarines fething suck. Rowboat Girlyman needs to die for the new fluff to be interesting at all. [MOD EDIT - Inappropriate content removed - please find a different way to express yourself. - Alpharius]

And you're entitled to your opinions on all of these. Don't be surprised if others disagree with you.
You personally seem rather angry about this - something you'd like to share?

Now, show us where on the doll the Ultramarine touched you...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/28 14:14:43



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Ultramarines are far from boring. They get the spotlight too much, but they aren't boring. If they get jettisoned into their own codex, a Codex Ultramar with it's own Guard regiments and whatnot would be kinda neat.

Back on topic, I think Sicarius would be a good candidate for an upgrade. Perhaps to establish that the upgrades can even be done in the first place. I think Captain Cortez would be a good option for an upgrade for the Crimson Fists.

But really, I would like to see new guys get fleshed out if they don't give some of the old ones an upgrade.

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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Ultramarines are far from boring. They get the spotlight too much, but they aren't boring. If they get jettisoned into their own codex, a Codex Ultramar with it's own Guard regiments and whatnot would be kinda neat.

Ultramarines are noble good guys without flaws. That kinda does make them boring. They'd be much more interesting if they were less perfect.

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 Iron_Captain wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Ultramarines are far from boring. They get the spotlight too much, but they aren't boring. If they get jettisoned into their own codex, a Codex Ultramar with it's own Guard regiments and whatnot would be kinda neat.

Ultramarines are noble good guys without flaws. That kinda does make them boring. They'd be much more interesting if they were less perfect.
'Mary Sue' is a term that gets thrown around a lot without it being entirely true, but it really does apply to Ultramarines. Mainly because they never suffer any downsides to qualities that would reasonably have them. For example, they go out of their way to help civilians but never lose a battle because they were late, suffer from their recruiting worlds being infiltrated, have a drain on resources, etc. A codex of their own to give them some depth and actually losing the upcoming campaign would go a long way. Particularly because it would mean that a generic marine codex would not have half of it dedicated to them. If ultramarines didnt trample over other chapters' page count they'd be more well received.

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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Since old Marines can be upgraded into Primaris Marines, would you be okay if classic Space Marine characters were upgraded into Primaris Space Marines? Pedro Kantor in Tacticus Armor, Shrike as an Inceptor with Lightning Claws, Calgar in Gravis Armor, and so on and so forth.

I would rather see Shrike as a Reiver than an Inceptor, mostly because it will finally put to bed the stupid nonsense about "Raven Guard are guerilla experts so jump packs!".
   
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If ultramarines didnt trample over other chapters' page count they'd be more well received.


you mean if GW hadn't made the decision to force a buncha other chapters on the Ultramarines? remember back in 2nd editionit was "codex Ultramarines"

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I've been wanting Dante to get a resculpt for years, and this could be a good excuse for it. It's a great model, but he's just so teeny now!

Originally, I did get that he was supposed to be streamlined to give him the look of a shining, angelic man of gold, as opposed to a power-suited space warrior.

Since the arrival of the more ostentatious Sanguinary Guard, however, he's looked puny compared to his own bodyguards. And then the Sanguinor basically came and stole his whole schtick - and did so while looking far beefier and more physically imposing.

Speaking of, Dante really needs angel wings on that jump pack. I actually consider the angel wings a little overwrought and a little too far over the top, but if his bodyguards have them, dang it, he needs them, too!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/06 18:13:36


 
   
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I was actually assuming that's what would happen with some of the Blood Angels characters. Several of them, Dante most of all IMO, are in need of a new model. Why not create a new Dante model at Primaris scale and say the old man got the upgrade?

As an aside, I'm not sure what would happen with Mephiston to be honest. His geneseed is already described as having gone through a second stage of enhancements after he overcame the Black Rage. How might that affect the Primaris upgrades?
   
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I also vote Cortez. I always thought he deserved more than his Power Fist and Bolt Pistol, especially after what he had to put up with on Rynn's World. I'm sure they could work it in as "his injuries started to rack up, so a Primaris upgrade would be easier than straight surgery from the Apothecaries", or something to that effect. I'm pretty sure it has been mention current Marines can be "upgraded" to Primaris, so I see no reason for this not to be possible.

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 EmpNortonII wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 EmpNortonII wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
We haven't seen a named character in Mk X yet. Perhaps there is an artificer variant of the Gravis or Tacticus Armor. Maybe even an additional set type that trades the Toughness augmentation for an armor augmentation.


I imagine we'll eventually get a named Primaris character but have a hunch it'll be someone new, Maybe Felix from Dark Imperium
True. There has already been a vocal group of people asking for stats on him on Facebook.


Honestly I'd be kinda down for a "codex: Ultramar" that provided specific rules for usitlizing an army made up of the various military aspects defending Ultramar. Ultrimares (and some of the progenator chapters) guard. etc.


Nine thousand chapters of Space Marines with no fluff or background and you are wanting more Smurfs? feth that.


Ultramar is more then just "the Smurfs" and ya know if people are gonna complain about the Ultramarines being vanilla and boring etc, I'd rather GW took the time to flesh them out to a point they are less so. not every chapter can be made intreasting by throwing wolf in it's name and a +1 to it's stats


Ultramarines will always be boring. Hell, they were boring during the Heresy. "We were surprise attacked like every other Chapter but had no doubters in our ranks or important people die or any troubles at all la la la except for that one guy we were going to punish for already thinking about how to fight other Space Marines." Ultramarines fething suck. Rowboat Girlyman needs to die for the new fluff to be interesting at all. [MOD EDIT - Inappropriate content removed - please find a different way to express yourself. - Alpharius]

Sorry not every chapter can be as interesting as your unknown founding/unknown Primarch Chapter that doesn't follow the codex.
In the meanwhile Ultramarines are actually getting stuff done.

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Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Sorry not every chapter can be as interesting as your unknown founding/unknown Primarch Chapter that doesn't follow the codex.
In the meanwhile Ultramarines are actually getting stuff done.


Guilliman is getting things done. I like the Ultramarines, but they've been maintaining the status quo for the last 10 millenia just like every other chapter.
   
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 Orblivion wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Sorry not every chapter can be as interesting as your unknown founding/unknown Primarch Chapter that doesn't follow the codex.
In the meanwhile Ultramarines are actually getting stuff done.


Guilliman is getting things done. I like the Ultramarines, but they've been maintaining the status quo for the last 10 millenia just like every other chapter.


There's other chapters for the more extreme variations. They fit a niche as the generalists, they can do everything but not say as powerful as shock heavyblood angels or space wolves in their chosen feilld.

Likewise they cam all march up in a wave of blue sheilds . But not beat deathguard at it.

If your want a specialist legion or chapter.
You not want the blue ultras.

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I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

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 jhe90 wrote:
 Orblivion wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Sorry not every chapter can be as interesting as your unknown founding/unknown Primarch Chapter that doesn't follow the codex.
In the meanwhile Ultramarines are actually getting stuff done.


Guilliman is getting things done. I like the Ultramarines, but they've been maintaining the status quo for the last 10 millenia just like every other chapter.


There's other chapters for the more extreme variations. They fit a niche as the generalists, they can do everything but not say as powerful as shock heavyblood angels or space wolves in their chosen feilld.

Likewise they cam all march up in a wave of blue sheilds . But not beat deathguard at it.

If your want a specialist legion or chapter.
You not want the blue ultras.


Even the vanilla chapters had variations.
Imp fist was about bolter drill and dev squads.
Ravenguard was sneaky
Sally was flamers
Iron hand was nurgle light
scars about bikes

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
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avoiding the lorax on Crion

 Desubot wrote:
 jhe90 wrote:
 Orblivion wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Sorry not every chapter can be as interesting as your unknown founding/unknown Primarch Chapter that doesn't follow the codex.
In the meanwhile Ultramarines are actually getting stuff done.


Guilliman is getting things done. I like the Ultramarines, but they've been maintaining the status quo for the last 10 millenia just like every other chapter.


There's other chapters for the more extreme variations. They fit a niche as the generalists, they can do everything but not say as powerful as shock heavyblood angels or space wolves in their chosen feilld.

Likewise they cam all march up in a wave of blue sheilds . But not beat deathguard at it.

If your want a specialist legion or chapter.
You not want the blue ultras.


Even the vanilla chapters had variations.
Imp fist was about bolter drill and dev squads.
Ravenguard was sneaky
Sally was flamers
Iron hand was nurgle light
scars about bikes


Criomsion fists.
Super sternguard, old saltly predro and fact they can boost sternguard abit.

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

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Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
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BrianDavion wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Since old Marines can be upgraded into Primaris Marines, would you be okay if classic Space Marine characters were upgraded into Primaris Space Marines? Pedro Kantor in Tacticus Armor, Shrike as an Inceptor with Lightning Claws, Calgar in Gravis Armor, and so on and so forth.


depends on the model but sure why not. that said IMHO it's unnesscary, the upgrades named characters would receive would be pretty minimal, and in Calgar's case, going from a 2+ save to a 3+ would be a loss.

given that a Primaris Marine only has one extra attack and Wound over a regular marine, that seems to carry over into characters, the upgrade to named special characters would be pretty minimal.



The implanted organs, cybernetics, and conditioning that make a SM a SM and make a Primaris Marine a Primaris Marine are a set drawn from a huge array of different possibilitites. Not all SM chapters have the same process/organs. Nor are their genetic codes/geneseeds the same. There are also an infinite number of special enhancements that can be done to normal humans or SM to make them 'better, stronger, faster.'

It is likely that the greatest heros of SM 40k already have had extra enhancements done to them to give them T5, or 3 wounds, or whatever so replacing some of that with Prmaris junk might actually be a downgrade.

The primaris upgrades are a better set of univeral organs/conditioning that make better foot soldiers. It pales in comparison to the stuff at the high end of the imperium.

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 Exergy wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Since old Marines can be upgraded into Primaris Marines, would you be okay if classic Space Marine characters were upgraded into Primaris Space Marines? Pedro Kantor in Tacticus Armor, Shrike as an Inceptor with Lightning Claws, Calgar in Gravis Armor, and so on and so forth.


depends on the model but sure why not. that said IMHO it's unnesscary, the upgrades named characters would receive would be pretty minimal, and in Calgar's case, going from a 2+ save to a 3+ would be a loss.

given that a Primaris Marine only has one extra attack and Wound over a regular marine, that seems to carry over into characters, the upgrade to named special characters would be pretty minimal.



The implanted organs, cybernetics, and conditioning that make a SM a SM and make a Primaris Marine a Primaris Marine are a set drawn from a huge array of different possibilitites. Not all SM chapters have the same process/organs. Nor are their genetic codes/geneseeds the same. There are also an infinite number of special enhancements that can be done to normal humans or SM to make them 'better, stronger, faster.'

It is likely that the greatest heros of SM 40k already have had extra enhancements done to them to give them T5, or 3 wounds, or whatever so replacing some of that with Prmaris junk might actually be a downgrade.

The primaris upgrades are a better set of univeral organs/conditioning that make better foot soldiers. It pales in comparison to the stuff at the high end of the imperium.


I'm talking from a pure stat line POV. once you reach up into characters there's not much of a differance

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A much longer top knot and fumanchu for Kahn. A Redder swollen Fist for Pedro. A Sterner Stonier chizzeled face for Lysander. Calgar with dreadnought hands.

Maybe they should just design new characters....
   
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new characters is what I'd do. It'd be a good oppertunity to pad out other chapters too.

for example, Triumvirate of the Imperial Fists: which includes a plastic Lysander, a new tech marine character, and a new Primaris Lt Character.

this would let GW update Lysander, but it'd at the same time expand the character options IFs have.

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