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Here is my first attempt to make terrain make a difference. In addition to the below, units should also grant cover to units behind them, and defenders should have the option to refuse to assign hits to models outside LOS.
I am not even sure +1 to armour is enough, unlike AoS armour piercing is handed out like candy in 40k. Making it -1 to hit seems far too brutal on BS 5+ armies, tho.
SOLID TERRAIN
Solid terrain encompasses all terrain elements which block line of sight through them, like rocks, intact buildings, tall hills, statues, pillars and obelisks, fuel tanks...
Movement: Typically, solid terrain is impassable, but some pieces might have a safe, level surface for units that can FLY to land on or even battlements accessible to other models via stairs, ladders or similar. Agree on such aspects with your opponent before the game.
Shooting: Solid terrain follows normal line of sight rules, meaning that it physically blocks line of sight, but line of sight can be drawn over or past the terrain or even through gaps in the terrain piece itself, depending on the precise position of the models. Models at least half obscured by a solid terrain piece count as being in cover and get a +1 modifier to their armour saving throws.
Completely ignore solid terrain when drawing line of sight to and from models with Supersonic – they are too high above the battlefield to be obscured by terrain.
Assault: Solid terrain has no additional effect on charges. Usually, models simply have to move around it.
AREA TERRAIN Area terrain covers terrain pieces such as woods and ruins, where the edges of the piece are clearly defined but the actual position of individual elements like trees and walls inside the perimeter is unimportant. It does not block line of sight completely. Instead, there is a 'gray area' where enemies fade out of sight the further they are.
Movement: Area terrain does not hinder regular movement, but models cannot Advance through it.
Shooting: Area terrain is exempt from the normal line of sight rules and the model's eye view method is not used. Instead, models in area terrain who are less than 3" away from the edge of the terrain (in the direction of the enemy unit) count as being in cover and get a +1 modifier to their armour saving throws. Models deeper inside cannot be seen at all, nor can they see units outside. Area terrain that is at least 3" across completely blocks line of sight between units on opposite sides of it as if it were a solid mass.
Very large models might be too tall to conceal themselves in or behind area terrain. On the other hand, these models have a better view of their surroundings, so they can see obscured enemies more easily. Models that are taller than the average height of the vertical elements of the terrain piece can see and be seen through it but still receive a +1 modifier to their armour saving throws when inside or behind the terrain piece.
Area terrain is ignored when drawing line of sight across it to and from models with Supersonic – they are too high above the battlefield to be obscured by terrain. Models actually inside the terrain remain obscured from Supersonic models.
Assault: Units charging through area terrain are not entitled to fight first in the following Fight phase. This also affects units that can FLY, because they have to descend into the terrain to fight.
LINEAR OBSTACLES This type of terrain includes long and narrow pieces such as low walls, barricades, hedges and fences. Linear obstacles are typically not tall enough to completely block line of sight, but can provide cover.
Movement: INFANTRY, MONSTERS and VEHICLES can cross linear obstacles no taller than themselves with no penalty. When a MONSTER or VEHICLE crosses a linear obstacle, remove the section of obstacle that was moved over if possible. Taller obstacles are impassable, and all obstacles are impassable to other types of units.
Shooting: When standing within 3" of a linear obstacle that is at least half as tall as the model, a model gets a +1 modifier to its armour saving throws against shooting attacks that cross the obstacle, unless the shooter is in base contact with the obstacle.
A linear obstacle blocks line of sight between models shorter than itself, unless it can actually be seen through, such as a wire fence.
Assault: Units charging across a linear obstacle are not entitled to fight first in the following Fight phase unless they can FLY.
BROKEN GROUND This is a catch-all category for terrain pieces that are too flat to affect line of sight, but may still impede movement, such as broken rock, swamps, quicksand, acid pools...
Shooting: Broken ground does not block line of sight or grant cover.
Movement: Broken ground does not hinder regular movement, but models cannot Advance through it.
Assault: Units charging across broken ground are not entitled to fight first in the following Fight phase unless they can FLY.
DANGEROUS TERRAIN The battlefields of the 41st millennium are always hazardous, but some areas can be outright deadly. Any terrain piece that is not impassable can be classified as Dangerous in addition to its normal terrain type, and can be classified as Dangerous to some types of units but not others.
For example, razorwire is a linear obstacle that is Dangerous to non-VEHICLE models. A minefield is broken ground that is Dangerous to all models. A Catachan jungle is area terrain that is Dangerous to all models.
Movement: Roll a D6 whenever a model moves across Dangerous terrain, unless the model can FLY. On a roll of 1, that model’s unit suffers one mortal wound.
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These are very good house rules for terrain (much better than what GW wrote IMHO).
Here are my suggestions to improve them:
1) Right now each section has 'movement', 'shooting' and 'assault' rules. As there is no longer anything called 'assault' anymore in 8e, I'd just change that section heading to 'Charge'.
2) When you first read these rules, 'solid terrain' is the first thing you get to, and it mentions 'rocks' as the first example, which makes the reader think you're also talking about 'linear objects' in this section (which you're not really doing). So I'd suggest getting rid of 'rocks' as an example at all for solid terrain. You also might want to mention that solid terrain is supposed to be about TALL terrain. So changing the description of solid terrain to:
Solid terrain is both taller than most models but is also solid enough to block line of sight through it, like intact buildings, tall hills, statues, pillars, obelisks and fuel tanks...
3) Just to be 100% clear you should probably mention that solid terrain provides a cover save to 'any' model (just because now infantry are usually treated differently, so it would be nice to make it 100% clear). So, for example:
Any model at least half obscured by a solid terrain piece counts as being in cover and gets a +1 modifier to their armour saving throws.
4) Are you sure you want Supersonic models totally ignoring solid terrain (both when drawing line of sight themselves and when having line of sight drawn to them)? Just because solid terrain can encompass some pretty giant terrain features, so for example infantry right behind a giant building can still be spotted from across the table by a supersonic flyer? It just makes them way too powerful because they have line of sight to absolutely everything, and also means units can never get cover saves from a supersonic model for being behind solid terrain.
5) I don't think you should try to have a 3" limit on where you can have models see into/out of area terrain, especially because area terrain features are often oddly shaped, like an hourglass shape, for example, that can be more than 3" across in one place but not 3" across in another place. Having to measure for each model in area terrain to see if they are visible is just a pain in the ass that isn't needed.
Instead, I think players should just be able to nominate area terrain as being 'dense' if they want before the game, and line of sight cannot be drawn all the way through 'dense' area terrain to models on the other side. But IMHO, models inside area terrain should always be visible (and be able to be seen out) to keep things nice and simple.
And I am fine with, if you say that area terrain can block line of sight through it, that supersonic models essentially ignore this.
6) The 8e rules for forests & ruins (which are the main area terrain rules) don't prohibit advancing through it at all...why would you change that to make advancing not allowed at all? If anything, tacking on either a -2" penalty or a 'half distance' penalty like they used in other sections (generally against charge moves) would be way more appropriate (and closer to the rules that everyone is playing).
7) If these area terrain rules are also supposed to apply to ruins, then you've essentially overwritten all of GW's ruins rules, thereby allowing any type of model to move up to upper levels of ruins (so you should really add that stuff back in). Also, I personally like that GW has made it so that infantry can move through ruin walls, but other types of models cannot. I think that gives a nice balance back to infantry against the other types of units.
If you're going to allow non-infantry models to get a cover save just from being in area terrain, then they should at least you should specify that the entire model has to be inside the area terrain to benefit from it (so a Land Raider can't just stick a tiny bit of track inside a forest and get a save).
8) I think making units that charge through area terrain/obstacles/broken ground not striking first is too big a penalty/change from the regular rules. Applying a -2" charge penalty is way more in line with the regular rules and still has a pretty major effect on the game.
9) For linear obstacles, having them get removed when crossed by a MONSTER or VEHICLE is just silly and unrealistic. It means an army made up of monsters or vehicles can just wipe the battlefield clear of terrain by moving through it. Also, why can models cross obstacles with no penalty at all? If you think GW's way of making models count the movement up and back down again for moving over a barricade is too severe, then just change it to the vertical height of the obstacle ONCE. So if a model is moving over a 1" tall barricade, then it loses 1" off its move. Personally I think losing 2" of movement for going over a 1" tall wall is fine, but to each their own...
And while making vehicles and monsters unable to move over obstacles taller than them is perfectly reasonable (and I'd add BIKES to that list as well), saying that infantry can't clamber up over something taller than them? That's just silly.
10) Is 'broken ground' supposed to encompass craters too? If not, where do craters fall into, area terrain (that doesn't seem right)? And if broken ground is supposed to cover craters, are you really saying infantry can't take cover in a crater?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/12 01:21:44
Well, here's my take on what you did. Its a little closer to GW's book rules, although I do personally think that charging through area terrain (forests/ruins) should slightly slow models down (and as such have added that).
Spoiler:
TERRAIN TYPES
SOLID TERRAIN
Solid terrain is anything with heft enough to block visibility through it, like barricades, rocks, pipes, intact buildings, hills, statues, pillars, obelisks, fuel tanks, etc.
Movement: A model is able to climb over solid terrain, but must count the vertical movement both up and/or back down again when it does, unless the model can FLY. INFANTRY is able to climb solid terrain of any height, while non-INFANTRY is limited to climbing solid terrain that is no taller than itself.
Hills: Hills follow the rules for solid terrain, except that any type of model (not just INFANTRY) is able to climb a hill, even when the hill is taller than the model. Of course, if a hill has sheer vertical sides, it can instead be designated as impassable terrain (see IMPASSABLE TERRAIN below) if desired.
Shooting: An INFANTRY model within 1" of solid terrain, and behind it from the point of view of the attacker, gets the benefit of cover unless the attacker also happens to be in contact with that same solid terrain. In addition, if an INFANTRY model is more than 1" from solid terrain, it can still get the benefit of cover from the solid terrain, but only when the model is at least 50% obscured by it. All other types of models can only get the benefit of cover from solid terrain when at least 50% obscured by it. If an attack does not require visibility to its target, then only models within 1" of solid terrain can get the benefit of cover from it.
Charging: Models charging over solid terrain follow the solid terrain movement rules presented above.
AREA TERRAIN
Area terrain is when multiple terrain elements are mounted together onto a base, such as with woods and ruins. The edges of an area terrain feature are clearly defined by its base while the actual position of individual elements on it (like trees and walls) are slightly less important.
Movement: An INFANTRY model is not hindered when moving through area terrain at all, except when moving up or down onto elements within the area terrain (such as up onto the upper levels of a ruin), in which case it must count the vertical distance it moves up and/or down unless it can FLY. A non-INFANTRY model cannot be set-up or move on top of elements within area terrain. A non-INFANTRY model is allowed to move completely over an element in area terrain, but only when the element is no taller than the model (like a low ruined wall), and it must count the vertical movement both up and back down again to do so.
Shooting: An INFANTRY model wholly within area terrain gets the benefit of cover. In addition, an INFANTRY model outside of area terrain can get the benefit of cover from it, but only when the model is wholly behind the area terrain feature from the point of view of the attacker. If the attack does not require visibility to its target, then only an INFANTRY model within area terrain can get the benefit of cover from it.
Any other type of model must be at least 50% obscured by terrain elements on an area terrain feature in order to get the benefit of cover from it. If the attack does not require visibility to its target, then only a non-INFANTRY model that is both wholly within the area terrain and be at least 50% obscured by it to get the benefit of cover from it.
Dense Area Terrain: If both you and your opponent agree before the game, an area terrain feature can be classified as dense. Dense area terrain counts as blocking visibility from one side of the terrain feature to the other side, so a model outside of a dense area terrain feature isn't visible to a model on the opposite side of it. Dense area terrain provides the benefit of cover exactly like standard area terrain, except for the following:
• Models wholly behind a dense area terrain feature from the point of view of an attacker are assumed to be completely obscured by the dense area terrain (and therefore gain the benefit of cover from it) unless the attack does not require visibility to its target.
• Dense area terrain is treated as regular area terrain when checking visibility to and from a model with the Airborne ability or to and from a model that is taller than the tallest height of any individual element in the dense area terrain.
Charging: A model that charges through area terrain (including dense area terrain), must subtract 2" from their charge distance.
OBSTACLE
Obstacles are purpose built defenses: tanglewire & tank traps. Each obstacle must be designated as one or the other before the game.
Movement & Charging: A charging or Advancing VEHICLE or MONSTER model that moves through tank traps must halve how far they are allowed to charge/advance unless they are TITANIC. A charging or Advancing non-VEHICLE/non-MONSTER model that moves through tanglewire must halve how far they are allowed to charge/advance. Note that a model never has to take the vertical height of an obstacle it climbs over into consideration.
Shooting: Tank traps are treated as solid terrain for the purposes of providing the benefit of cover. Tanglewire cannot provide the benefit of cover.
BROKEN GROUND
Broken Ground is terrain that is too low to block visibility, but still impedes movement, such as craters, rubble, swamps, quicksand, acid pools, etc.
Movement: Broken ground does not hinder standard movement.
Shooting: An INFANTRY model wholly within broken ground gets the benefit of cover from it. Non-INFANTRY models cannot get the benefit of cover from broken ground.
Charging: A model that charges through broken ground, must subtract 2" from their charge distance.
TERRAIN EFFECTS
IMPASSABLE TERRAIN
Some terrain is so treacherous, that not even the most brave warrior would dare to cross it.
You and your opponent can both agree before the game that a particular terrain feature (or even just a portion of a terrain feature) is impassable. A model may not move through or be set up in impassable terrain. If desired, you and your opponent can agree before the game to allow a model that can FLY to end its movement or be set up on specific impassable terrain features where it makes sense to do so (like on the roof of an impassable building, for example).
DANGEROUS TERRAIN
The battlefields of the 41st millennium are always hazardous, but some areas can be outright deadly, such as a minefield.
Any terrain feature can be classified as dangerous terrain in addition to its normal terrain type if both you and your opponent agree to it before the game. In fact, you could even choose to classify a terrain feature as dangerous for one type of unit but not others.
Movement & Charging: Roll a D6 whenever a model Advances or charges across dangerous terrain. On a roll of 1, that model’s unit suffers one mortal wound. Models that can FLY are only affected by dangerous terrain when they either charge across or finish Advancing on dangerous terrain. Models with the Airborne ability are never affected by dangerous terrain unless both you and your opponent decide otherwise before the game.
EXPLOSIVE TERRAIN
Firefights sometimes occur amongst pipes and containers containing extremely flammable substances.
Any solid terrain feature can be classified as explosive in addition to its normal terrain rules if both you and your opponent agree to it before the game.
Shooting: Roll a dice each time you make a saving throw of 7+ (usually a roll of 6, plus 1 for being in cover) for a model that has the benefit of cover provided by explosive terrain within 1". On a 1, that shot has caused a small explosion and the model's unit suffers a mortal wound.
INSPIRATIONAL EFFIGY
The battlefields of the 41st millennium are often littered with remnants of once proud achievements, reminding the combatants exactly what they're fighting for.
Any solid terrain feature can be classified as an inspirational effigy in addition to its normal terrain rules if both you and your opponent agree to it before the game. You must also agree upon a single Faction keyword that the effigy represents.
Morale: Any units within 3" of an inspirational effigy that share the same Faction keyword as it add 1 to their Leadership.
Note:For all terrain types, anytime the rules mention a model needing to be obscured, that condition must be met for every single model in the firing unit. For example, if a model needs to be at least 50% obscured by terrain in order to get the benefit of cover, then if even a single model in the firing unit can see more than 50% of that model, then it does not get the benefit of cover.
This message was edited 14 times. Last update was at 2017/07/13 22:29:10
Well, here's my take on what you did. Its a little closer to GW's book rules, although I do personally think that charging through area terrain (forests/ruins) should slightly slow models down (and as such have added that).
Spoiler:
TERRAIN TYPES
SOLID TERRAIN
Solid terrain is anything with heft enough to block visibility through it, like barricades, rocks, pipes, intact buildings, hills, statues, pillars, obelisks, fuel tanks, etc.
Movement: A model is able to climb over solid terrain, but must count the vertical movement both up and/or back down again when it does, unless the model can FLY. INFANTRY is able to climb solid terrain of any height, while non-INFANTRY is limited to climbing solid terrain that is no taller than itself.
Shooting: An INFANTRY model within 1" of solid terrain, and behind it from the point of view of the attacker, gets the benefit of cover unless the attacker also happens to be in contact with that same solid terrain. In addition, if an INFANTRY model is more than 1" from solid terrain, it can still get the benefit of cover from the solid terrain, but only when the model is at least 50% obscured by it. All other types of models can only get the benefit of cover from solid terrain when at least 50% obscured by it. If an attack does not require visibility to its target, then only models within 1" of solid terrain can get the benefit of cover from it.
Charging: Models charging over solid terrain follow the solid terrain movement rules presented above.
AREA TERRAIN
Area terrain is when multiple terrain elements are mounted together onto a base, such as with woods and ruins. The edges of an area terrain feature are clearly defined by its base while the actual position of individual elements on it (like trees and walls) are slightly less important.
Movement: An INFANTRY model is not hindered when moving through area terrain at all, except when moving up or down onto elements within the area terrain (such as up onto the upper levels of a ruin), in which case it must count the vertical distance it moves up and/or down unless it can FLY. A non-INFANTRY model cannot be set-up or move on top of elements within area terrain. A non-INFANTRY model is allowed to move completely over an element in area terrain, but only when the element is no taller than the model (like a low ruined wall), and it must count the vertical movement both up and back down again to do so.
Shooting: An INFANTRY model wholly within area terrain gets the benefit of cover. In addition, an INFANTRY model outside of area terrain can get the benefit of cover from it, but only when the model is wholly behind the area terrain feature from the point of view of the attacker. If the attack does not require visibility to its target, then only an INFANTRY model within area terrain can get the benefit of cover from it.
Any other type of model must be at least 50% obscured by terrain elements on an area terrain feature in order to get the benefit of cover from it. If the attack does not require visibility to its target, then only a non-INFANTRY model that is both wholly within the area terrain and be at least 50% obscured by it to get the benefit of cover from it.
Dense Area Terrain: If both you and your opponent agree before the game, an area terrain feature can be classified as dense. Dense area terrain counts as blocking visibility from one side of the terrain feature to the other side, so a model outside of a dense area terrain feature isn't visible to a model on the opposite side of it. Dense area terrain provides the benefit of cover exactly like standard area terrain, except for the following:
• Models wholly behind a dense area terrain feature from the point of view of an attacker are assumed to be completely obscured by the dense area terrain (and therefore gain the benefit of cover from it) unless the attack does not require visibility to its target.
• Dense area terrain is treated as regular area terrain when checking visibility to and from a model with the Airborne ability or to and from a model that is taller than the tallest height of any individual element in the dense area terrain.
Charging: A model that charges through area terrain (including dense area terrain), must subtract 2" from their charge distance.
OBSTACLE
Obstacles are purpose built defenses: tanglewire & tank traps. Each obstacle must be designated as one or the other before the game.
Movement & Charging: A charging or Advancing VEHICLE or MONSTER model that moves through tank traps must halve how far they are allowed to charge/advance unless they are TITANIC. A charging or Advancing non-VEHICLE/non-MONSTER model that moves through tanglewire must halve how far they are allowed to charge/advance. Note that a model never has to take the vertical height of an obstacle it climbs over into consideration.
Shooting: Tank traps are treated as solid terrain for the purposes of providing the benefit of cover. Tanglewire cannot provide the benefit of cover.
BROKEN GROUND
Broken Ground is terrain that is too low to block visibility, but still impedes movement, such as craters, rubble, swamps, quicksand, acid pools, etc.
Movement: Broken ground does not hinder standard movement.
Shooting: An INFANTRY model wholly within broken ground gets the benefit of cover from it. Non-INFANTRY models cannot get the benefit of cover from broken ground.
Charging: A model that charges through broken ground, must subtract 2" from their charge distance.
TERRAIN EFFECTS
IMPASSABLE TERRAIN
Some terrain is so treacherous, that not even the most brave warrior would dare to cross it.
You and your opponent can both agree before the game that a particular terrain feature (or even just a portion of a terrain feature) is impassable. A model may not move through or be set up in impassable terrain. If desired, you and your opponent can agree before the game to allow a model that can FLY to end its movement or be set up on specific impassable terrain features where it makes sense to do so (like on the roof of an impassable building, for example).
DANGEROUS TERRAIN
The battlefields of the 41st millennium are always hazardous, but some areas can be outright deadly, such as a minefield.
Any terrain feature can be classified as dangerous terrain in addition to its normal terrain type if both you and your opponent agree to it before the game. In fact, you could even choose to classify a terrain feature as dangerous for one type of unit but not others.
Movement & Charging: Roll a D6 whenever a model Advances or charges across dangerous terrain. On a roll of 1, that model’s unit suffers one mortal wound. Models that can FLY are only affected by dangerous terrain when they either charge across or finish Advancing on dangerous terrain. Models with the Airborne ability are never affected by dangerous terrain unless both you and your opponent decide otherwise before the game.
EXPLOSIVE TERRAIN
Firefights sometimes occur amongst pipes and containers containing extremely flammable substances.
Any solid terrain feature can be classified as explosive in addition to its normal terrain rules if both you and your opponent agree to it before the game.
Shooting: Roll a dice each time you make a saving throw of 7+ (usually a roll of 6, plus 1 for being in cover) for a model that has the benefit of cover provided by explosive terrain. On a 1, that shot has caused a small explosion and the model's unit suffers a mortal wound.
INSPIRATIONAL EFFIGY
The battlefields of the 41st millennium are often littered with remnants of once proud achievements, reminding the combatants exactly what they're fighting for.
Any solid terrain feature can be classified as an inspirational effigy in addition to its normal terrain rules if both you and your opponent agree to it before the game. You must also agree upon a single Faction keyword that the effigy represents.
Morale: Any units within 3" of an inspirational effigy that share the same Faction keyword as it add 1 to their Leadership.
Note:For all terrain types, anytime the rules mention a model needing to be obscured, that condition must be met for every single model in the firing unit. For example, if a model needs to be at least 50% obscured by terrain in order to get the benefit of cover, then if even a single model in the firing unit can see more than 50% of that model, then it does not get the benefit of cover.
I like these a lot, I am definitely going to use these and see how they play. This is what terrain on the battlefield should be IMHO. Thanks, guys!
Battlesong wrote: I like these a lot, I am definitely going to use these and see how they play. This is what terrain on the battlefield should be IMHO. Thanks, guys!
Hey, glad you like it!
I updated the 'solid terrain' section to add a little exception for hills, as non-infantry models should definitely still be able to move up/down hills that are taller than them.
Definite improvement.
Any chance we can get a dakka approved rules revision?
I started a thread in general discussion fielding input on terrain and cover which I would then collate and after feedback try to distill into a poll in effort to formalize a few dakka approved terrain and cover options.
Please copy and paste your suggestions into that thread so that I can more easily do the analysis.
Pretty please?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 14:51:11