Drop Pods Viable?

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**kestral**

I'm getting ready for my first game of 8th. I used to rock the Drop Marines. I can see how drop pods are more expensive with the "drop when and where you want exactly" thing, but can they really be worth 110 points (with death wind I think)?

**the_scotsman**

Short answer: No

Long answer: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

There is absolutely nothing in the drop pod's stats or abilities that warrants a literal tripling of its points cost other than "GW really wants footymarines to happen, even though they aren't happening." For some reason, even though Tau are allowed to remove half an army from alpha strike, and orks are allowed to Da Jump 30 boyz into close combat turn 1, Drop Pods are just not cool and have to be limited to not only a max 1/4 of your army (Remember, the pod counts as a unit in reserve too!) but also must be ludicrously expensive.

**kestral**

Wait, but aren't all units worth taking now? : ) I suppose maybe one full of flamers might be worth it.

**the_scotsman**

kestral wrote:
Wait, but aren't all units worth taking now? : ) I suppose maybe one full of flamers might be worth it.

Bahahahahahahaha oh you poor sweet summer child, read the drop pod rules.

specifically the minimum placement from enemy units you have to set up the disembarking unit from the pod

**labmouse42**

Drop pods are a T6 model with 8 wounds on a 3+ save, making them closer to a DE raider in toughness instead of a rhino is toughness. Their base cost is 103 plus either a deathwind ML or a storm bolter.

Equipping
I don't get why people keep wanting to stick a deathwind launcher on them. The deathwind averages out to 3.5 shots at STR 5 with a range of 12". The storm bolter is 4 shots at STR 4 within 12", and 2 shots outside 12". The reality is most things won't be hanging out within 12" of your drop pod.

The Good
Dropping one right onto an objective is nice. You are basically putting a vehicle right onto an objective from turns one to three. It's a great way to secure an objective.
It can also be used to deliver hard hitting units where they need to be. Drop four MM 12" from a knight. Drop strenguard where you need them to be, etc...
Hell, even just dropping 4 MM in the center of the board is not bad. It's a big threat to vehicle heavy armies.

The Bad
You can't deep strike near enemy units. This means if you hold off to long with your drop pod, you might lose the opportunity to drop them onto an objective.
They are expensive for their firepower and toughness -- compare them to a chimera with dual HF.

Summary
Full drop pod armies are a thing of the past. Even if you were allowed to take your entire army in them, it would be a waste.
As objective grabbers or delivery mechanism they can be used. I would personally not bring more than 2 in an army.
IMHO there are just better options for transports. Storm ravens, for example, are complete money. It's not just that they have great weapons and armor (which they do), it's that you can transport 12 infantry AND one dread into one, greatly lowering drops.

**koooaei**

It's still decent. It's decently tough and can easilly deny points with it's hull. 1 or 2 will be fine. But they've definitely moved away from the annoying spam they used to be.

**zerosignal**

labmouse42 wrote:
Drop pods are a T6 model with 8 wounds on a 3+ save, making them closer to a raider in toughness instead of a rhino is toughness. /quote]

Rhino chassis is T7 10W 3+
Raider chassis is T8 16W 2+

I assume you've transposed the two here...

**kestral**

For a moment I was thinking that you could advance to get into flamer range after dropping, but that's right, you can't.

**fresus**

zerosignal wrote:
labmouse42 wrote:
Drop pods are a T6 model with 8 wounds on a 3+ save, making them closer to a raider in toughness instead of a rhino is toughness. /quote]

Rhino chassis is T7 10W 3+
Raider chassis is T8 16W 2+

I assume you've transposed the two here...

I think he meant a Dark Eldar Raider, not a Land Raider.

**JohnU**

I could have stomached the cost increase if they hadn't tacked on all those unit type restrictions too, dreads in particular.

**mrhappyface**

Look at this way: it's basically there if you want to pay a bit more than a rhino to get your units in your opponants face turn 1 rather than turn 2, i.e. you're paying the extra points to fire your rhino at the enemy turn 1 but during the impact your rhino loses 2 wounds, 1 toughness and is immobalised, that's the downside of the new mk1 Rhino cannon.

**Bonachinonin**

I used a drop pod in a tournament to drop a melta and grav cannon squad. The squads effectiveness aside, the pod got me line breaker in 4 of 5 games and scored an objective in 2 of the 5. I was never disappointed to have it. I agree the cost is a bit too high, but I will argue for it still being useful. I would not bring more than two though.

**bigbaboonass**

+1 For a Linebreaker Drop Pod. They're not worth much more than this unfortunately.

**andysonic1**

The cost of loyalist drop pods is perfect when you compare it to the cost of Rhinos or other transports. You no longer get a stupidly cheap way to get anywhere on the board within rapid fire range of your opponent, now you have to really think strategically about where you're going to drop your dudes and what kind of dudes are going to be popping out. Also, as said by others but it warrants repeating: no ones going to stop to blow the thing up unless it's in their way. It's break for line breaker and objective taking.

The CSM drop pods are 200 and 300 points apiece but they are absolutely bonkers. The 300 point one has 15 24" S6 AP-1 1D attacks after dropping in from orbit, followed by 8 S9 AP-2 2D melee attacks, and if it removes models in melee than on a 5+ it regains a wound. Even if it takes a beating it doesn't reduce its 15" movement, so you can move it right into the heart of the enemy and fire its 6" pistol S8 AP-1 D3 AOE attack to take out multiple units at once before potentially exploding and taking the rest with you. Oh it also has T8 and 16W.

So to summarize: loyalists get decently priced objective holders or line breakers that amount to potentially game winning annoyances. Heretics get expensive "DEAR GOD WHAT IS THAT IT'S COMING RIGHT FOR US JESUS CHRIST KILL IT!". Honestly, be happy your drop pod is so low key and low points. Every time my Assault Claw drops in it's like it just committed a war crime and gets shot by 500 cruise missiles instantly.

**Retrogamer0001**

I plan on taking one drop pod (and only one) as a backline delivery system for either Grav devs or MM devs to eliminate a specified target. It's risky with the amount of points invested, but the benefits are there too. All in all, the Drop Pod is just another example of GW flipping the bird to all the people who bought pods last edition. 8th edition - The Gutting.

**andysonic1**

Retrogamer0001 wrote:
I plan on taking one drop pod (and only one) as a backline delivery system for either Grav devs or MM devs to eliminate a specified target. It's risky with the amount of points invested, but the benefits are there too. All in all, the Drop Pod is just another example of GW flipping the bird to all the people who bought pods last edition. 8th edition - The Gutting.

Drop pods were always far too cheap pointwise, what were they like 35 points? Oh no wait they were free if you took the formation that's right. They were always too good for what they provided and were, themselves, an example of GW flipping off every other formation in 7th. The damn things had objective secured and people were taking 6 or more of them and making walls enemy units couldn't move through. They are far more balanced in 8th than they were in 7th and are far more tactical than 7th. They didn't gut drop pods, they fixed them.

**Retrogamer0001**

andysonic1 wrote:
Retrogamer0001 wrote:
I plan on taking one drop pod (and only one) as a backline delivery system for either Grav devs or MM devs to eliminate a specified target. It's risky with the amount of points invested, but the benefits are there too. All in all, the Drop Pod is just another example of GW flipping the bird to all the people who bought pods last edition. 8th edition - The Gutting.
Drop pods were always far too cheap pointwise, what were they like 35 points? Oh no wait they were free if you took the formation that's right. They were always too good for what they provided and were, themselves, an example of GW flipping off every other formation in 7th. The damn things had objective secured and people were taking 6 or more of them and making walls enemy units couldn't move through. They are far more balanced in 8th than they were in 7th and are far more tactical than 7th. They didn't gut drop pods, they fixed them.

They gutted them.

Allowing them to be free in Battle Companies and giving them Ob Sec was a rules blunder, one of many in 7th. Tripling their points cost while removing all the things that made them broken is counter-intuitive. Tau are seeing the same thing with half their codex - the units that have been "fixed" are now going to be either rarely used or downright unplayable. This isn't 7th edition anymore, but units are still being butchered as it it were.

**andysonic1**

Retrogamer0001 wrote:
andysonic1 wrote:
Retrogamer0001 wrote:
I plan on taking one drop pod (and only one) as a backline delivery system for either Grav devs or MM devs to eliminate a specified target. It's risky with the amount of points invested, but the benefits are there too. All in all, the Drop Pod is just another example of GW flipping the bird to all the people who bought pods last edition. 8th edition - The Gutting.
Drop pods were always far too cheap pointwise, what were they like 35 points? Oh no wait they were free if you took the formation that's right. They were always too good for what they provided and were, themselves, an example of GW flipping off every other formation in 7th. The damn things had objective secured and people were taking 6 or more of them and making walls enemy units couldn't move through. They are far more balanced in 8th than they were in 7th and are far more tactical than 7th. They didn't gut drop pods, they fixed them.

They gutted them.

Allowing them to be free in Battle Companies and giving them Ob Sec was a rules blunder, one of many in 7th. Tripling their points cost while removing all the things that made them broken is counter-intuitive. Tau are seeing the same thing with half their codex - the units that have been "fixed" are now going to be either rarely used or downright unplayable. This isn't 7th edition anymore, but units are still being butchered as it it were.

If they kept drop pods the same cost they would be broken in 8th. They needed to be more expensive because of what they can do when compared to other transports. Just like the humble Rhino going up in points it also went way up in toughness and is now more successful than ever at its job. Everything now dies faster and kills faster, meaning being able to drop in a heavy weapons team or a special weapons team in rapid fire range of enemy units is far more brutal than ever before. Additionally, the model itself has value as previously said, it isn't JUST there to get other units onto the board. The points had to increase to keep it in line with everything else in 8th.

I don't know anything about how Tau are right now but they are probably fine, just need time to adjust and relearn the game and realize spamming isn't going to be as effective anymore. That goes for every army: spamming beyond 3 units of something will not yield results in the long term.

**Retrogamer0001**

I'm not arguing that a points increase wasn't warranted, but tripling the cost is OTT. A Rhino is a much more effective unit that a Drop Pod, especially considering Centurions can no longer take one. 70 points would be a reasonable increase in my opinion, taking into account the loss of all the special rules they used to have.

**niv-mizzet**

andysonic1 wrote:
Retrogamer0001 wrote:
andysonic1 wrote:
Retrogamer0001 wrote:
I plan on taking one drop pod (and only one) as a backline delivery system for either Grav devs or MM devs to eliminate a specified target. It's risky with the amount of points invested, but the benefits are there too. All in all, the Drop Pod is just another example of GW flipping the bird to all the people who bought pods last edition. 8th edition - The Gutting.
Drop pods were always far too cheap pointwise, what were they like 35 points? Oh no wait they were free if you took the formation that's right. They were always too good for what they provided and were, themselves, an example of GW flipping off every other formation in 7th. The damn things had objective secured and people were taking 6 or more of them and making walls enemy units couldn't move through. They are far more balanced in 8th than they were in 7th and are far more tactical than 7th. They didn't gut drop pods, they fixed them.

They gutted them.

Allowing them to be free in Battle Companies and giving them Ob Sec was a rules blunder, one of many in 7th. Tripling their points cost while removing all the things that made them broken is counter-intuitive. Tau are seeing the same thing with half their codex - the units that have been "fixed" are now going to be either rarely used or downright unplayable. This isn't 7th edition anymore, but units are still being butchered as it it were.
If they kept drop pods the same cost they would be broken in 8th. They needed to be more expensive because of what they can do when compared to other transports. Just like the humble Rhino going up in points it also went way up in toughness and is now more successful than ever at its job. Everything now dies faster and kills faster, meaning being able to drop in a heavy weapons team or a special weapons team in rapid fire range of enemy units is far more brutal than ever before. Additionally, the model itself has value as previously said, it isn't JUST there to get other units onto the board. The points had to increase to keep it in line with everything else in 8th.

I don't know anything about how Tau are right now but they are probably fine, just need time to adjust and relearn the game and realize spamming isn't going to be as effective anymore. That goes for every army: spamming beyond 3 units of something will not yield results in the long term.

I could see this price if a unit could take shelter in the pod like other transports, but for having to get out? Nah 100 is way too expensive just to give some dudes deep strike and set a debuffed immobilized rhino somewhere.

So yeah, they got gutted. Mine are now relegated to shelf-guarding duty. I guess my shelf needs guarding now that the sanguinor and tycho have finally seen the table for the first time in several editions.

**Mandragola**

I tend to agree that they are gutted. Partly it's that they cost so much, partly it's that they give you no advantage (and arguably a disadvantage, because all the guys who get out have to be near it) over just deep striking.

So for example you could drop 5 sternguard in a pod, or 5 terminators. Not a particularly difficult decision, right?

They are more efficient with 10 guys in than 5, but which 10 guys do you send? Sternguard do seem like the only strong-ish option, but I don't think I'd rate them above "ok".

**Martel732**

andysonic1 wrote:
Retrogamer0001 wrote:
I plan on taking one drop pod (and only one) as a backline delivery system for either Grav devs or MM devs to eliminate a specified target. It's risky with the amount of points invested, but the benefits are there too. All in all, the Drop Pod is just another example of GW flipping the bird to all the people who bought pods last edition. 8th edition - The Gutting.
Drop pods were always far too cheap pointwise, what were they like 35 points? Oh no wait they were free if you took the formation that's right. They were always too good for what they provided and were, themselves, an example of GW flipping off every other formation in 7th. The damn things had objective secured and people were taking 6 or more of them and making walls enemy units couldn't move through. They are far more balanced in 8th than they were in 7th and are far more tactical than 7th. They didn't gut drop pods, they fixed them.

I don't think drop pods were that good, or else BA wouldn't have been ass terrible in 7th. Non-skyhammer non-gladius pods were actually very mediocre.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Retrogamer0001 wrote:
andysonic1 wrote:
Retrogamer0001 wrote:
I plan on taking one drop pod (and only one) as a backline delivery system for either Grav devs or MM devs to eliminate a specified target. It's risky with the amount of points invested, but the benefits are there too. All in all, the Drop Pod is just another example of GW flipping the bird to all the people who bought pods last edition. 8th edition - The Gutting.
Drop pods were always far too cheap pointwise, what were they like 35 points? Oh no wait they were free if you took the formation that's right. They were always too good for what they provided and were, themselves, an example of GW flipping off every other formation in 7th. The damn things had objective secured and people were taking 6 or more of them and making walls enemy units couldn't move through. They are far more balanced in 8th than they were in 7th and are far more tactical than 7th. They didn't gut drop pods, they fixed them.

They gutted them.

Allowing them to be free in Battle Companies and giving them Ob Sec was a rules blunder, one of many in 7th. Tripling their points cost while removing all the things that made them broken is counter-intuitive. Tau are seeing the same thing with half their codex - the units that have been "fixed" are now going to be either rarely used or downright unplayable. This isn't 7th edition anymore, but units are still being butchered as it it were.

The Tau units are now just priced at what they should have costed all along. Immortality should be expensive.

**jcd386**

The only three things I can think of using them for are as follows:

1. Dropping in Grav Devastators to blow something important away. This seems reasonably worthwhile to me depending on what there is to kill. Bubble wrap is a thing, but 24" range is a lot. I am not sure MM Devs will be as good since its not that hard to bubble wrap stuff out of 12" double dice range, and 4 shots per 5 guys is pretty meh compared to the Grav's 16 per 5 guys.

1. Dropping in sternguard. I don't see this as being that great...but it isn't so terrible that I would rule it out. I feel like it could work in lists where you have a lot of other stuff dropping in and also for some reason want sternguard to be there.

3. Dropping in an important footslogging HQ. I could see a drop pod being used in a list that wants to drop in a lot of stuff turn 1, and benefits from a named HQ's buff, but the HQ is too slow to get there normally. Ragnar is the main guy that comes to mind for me, in some kind of space wolf terminator / jump pack list. Since you have the pod already, you can also put other guys inside of it, helping mitigate the points you used on it by not buying jump packs for that squad, etc.

I don't think any of these are auto includes, or even particually great most of the time, but its possible they would be good in some lists so not something to rule out completely imo.

**zedsdead**

andysonic1 wrote:

Honestly, be happy your drop pod is so low key and low points. Every time my Assault Claw drops in it's like it just committed a war crime and gets shot by 500 cruise missiles instantly.

lol

**Waaaghpower**

Honestly, even if pods were only 70ppm (or even 35ppm) I don't think I'd take them much in this edition. Their benefit is significantly lower than it used to be, most armies seem to be flush with bubble wrap and counter-DS screening units, 9" makes flamers useless, and most units that I would want in that close are assault-based squads, who either already have Teleportation, or who can't go in Drop Pods.
Plus, the model tax is huge, since each pod unit requires two ground units - And that's assuming you don't use characters in your pod.

**Retrogamer0001**

Waaaghpower wrote:
Honestly, even if pods were only 70ppm (or even 35ppm) I don't think I'd take them much in this edition. Their benefit is significantly lower than it used to be, most armies seem to be flush with bubble wrap and counter-DS screening units, 9" makes flamers useless, and most units that I would want in that close are assault-based squads, who either already have Teleportation, or who can't go in Drop Pods.
Plus, the model tax is huge, since each pod unit requires two ground units - And that's assuming you don't use characters in your pod.

So in your opinion, the drop pod has been...gutted.

**Waaaghpower**

Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Waaaghpower wrote:
Honestly, even if pods were only 70ppm (or even 35ppm) I don't think I'd take them much in this edition. Their benefit is significantly lower than it used to be, most armies seem to be flush with bubble wrap and counter-DS screening units, 9" makes flamers useless, and most units that I would want in that close are assault-based squads, who either already have Teleportation, or who can't go in Drop Pods.
Plus, the model tax is huge, since each pod unit requires two ground units - And that's assuming you don't use characters in your pod.

So in your opinion, the drop pod has been...gutted.

My drop pods were always gutted.

Easier to fit a dreadnought in that way.

**Neophyte2012**

As Ultramarine, I think put a Squad of Grav cannon Devastors in Droppod is a good tactical decision. If you put them on board, they can be easily avoided and shot to death before they get to fire, due to their short range.

However, by Droppod them, your opponent would not going to know where they are coming in, so it is more difficult for them to put their important stuff "behind" LOS blocking terrain, out of range, or bubble wrap them. No need to drop them in suicide Distance from enemy, but can be drop behind your own bubble of advancing Scouts/Tac squads.

Yes they hit on 4s when come in and wound most MCs on only 5s now. But we Ultramarine have Guilliman to mitigate that

**Mavnas**

They didn't just get netfed though. They don't scatter anymore and you can pick when they come in. (Sure an OP formation allowed that in the past, but regular drop pods could fail at their job multiple ways.)

**Anpu42**

One Drop Pod is not worth it unless you have a lot of other Deep Strikers showing up.

This is from my Space Wolf First Impressions Thread.

Drop Pods
Ok, I am dropping out of the Pure Space Wolf Units and delving into Drop Pods.

UNIT COMPOSITION: 1 Drop Pod
WARGEAR: Storm Bolter

Drop Pod Assault: This is where they got better, much better, they land Where you Want! So it is over 9” away, still no more falling off the edge of the world.

Immobile: One you place it, there it is for good or bad.

Transport: Carries 10 Models

It is Reasonably Tough and has a good save like most Vehicles. With 8 Wounds it should hang around for a few turns.

Storm Bolter: Rapid Fire-2 is not going to excite anyone, but with the ability to hurt anything the Drop Pod will have to be delft with at some point take shot away from other units.

Deathwind Launcher: Shorter range than the Storm Bolters, it has the chance of making 6 S5 Attacks. Once more it will have to be dealt with at some point drawing fire.

I know they got expensive, but they are a lot better in some ways. Simple no Scatter Drops, the ability to take a good amount of punishment. I know you can’t put your Dreads and Terminators in them, but...you don’t have to pay of Pods for your Wolf Guard Terminators anymore.

The First Rule of Drop Pods: GO BIG OR DON”T BOTHER!
The Second Rule of Drop Pods: GO BIG OR DON”T BOTHER!
The The Third Rule of Drop Pods: GO BIG OR DON”T BOTHER!

The Fourth Rule of Drop Pods: Wolf Guard Terminators go well with Drop Pods and lessen the Number you need.

How I would use them:
>Never in smaller numbers of three. Never have them more than 9” each from each other. Have one what the job is of what is inside. I do this with the Deathwind Launchers, with a 3-18 possible S5 attacks I personally think it is worth it.

>There is also only two Units I would put in a Drop Pod, Power Armored Wolf Guard, Grey Hunters.

>Blood Claws and Wulfen sound like they could be good, but you end up with not enough Special Weapons to do the Job or not enough Models.

>Bolter Wolves: This goes for both Power Armored Wolf Guard and Grey Hunters, Take Bolt Guns, Special Weapons and Combi-Weapons. Most likely you are doing this to capture an early game Objective (Tactical or Not). If you can put three Drop Pods in a Triangular Formation so they can support each other and the Infantry you dropped off, it can act as an instant Fortification of sorts.

>Character/Tank/MC Hunters: Load up with Plasma/Melta and go to town on your Target. Some people think the safest place for their Character is Behind their Meat-Shields, show them how wrong they are. As for Tanks/MCs, well with enough AP-3/AP-4 you should be able to take it down quick. If you set things up you may be able to kill off One Really Big Threat or Three Smaller ones.

>Assault Force: Bolt Pistols, Flamer and Chainswords. Take a Character that gives you a Re-Roll on Charge and go for it.

Pack Layout:
>Power Armor Wolf Guard: Take only 9 + a Character (Ragnar with out Fangy and Bitey works good) and hope for the long charge to work out. You will be within 12” so you should be able to soften your target up (or soften up one and the Charge another).

>Grey Hunters: A Pack of 10 without the WGPL should do the job, though you could go with 9 + the WGPL and loose out on the second Special Weapon. It is a tough call. It depends on if you are planning on Assaulting or not. If you ar planning on going with Bolter Wolves, I would go for the second Special Weapon and one Comb-Weapon. If you are planing on Assaulting take the WGPL for a few extra Frost Blade Attacks.

Mixing them with Wolf Guard Terminators:
>Think about your opponent now having to deal with NINE Targets in their backfield. The Wolf Guard Terminators will probably take the brunt of the Attacks so I would keep them simple, add a Heavy Flamer or an Assault Cannon, maybe a chain fist, that is about it unless you wanted to take a bunch of Combi-Plasma or Combi-Meltas.

A Note: I did not mention Wolf Scouts, but add in a Wolf Scout Pack into the Drop Pod Assault and now he had 10 Targets in his face.