Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, I've seen the idea that the Big E was going to ice the Primarchs as soon as the great crusade was over and this got me thinking. The Imperial truth call for a scientific approach to life, as well human advancement. This seems at odds with the martian approach to not just technology, but to life as well. Do any of you think that the Big E saw mars as just as expendable as he did his sons? Was he planning on destroying the techpriest once his conquest of the galaxy was complete?

Seems more likely he had a long-game in store for the Mechanicum, where he could nominally use his position as head of both organizations he'd oversee their integration into the greater Imperium.

Part of that would likely involve pushing them gradually towards a non-dogmatic view of technology (a Mechanicum version of the Imperial Truth, let's say...) and eventually as the STC record becomes more and more complete, emphasizing the need to understand the principles of their technology in order to rediscover lost wonders and, tepidly, discover new ones.

Somewhere in this process he'd also be pushing humanity towards psychic ascendancy too.

He'd have probably pushed the mechanicum more towards his ideas since they seemed to be more open and a little less religious than the more modern day ad mech.

Betraying them? No. Even if you are the Emperor its not a very smart idea to betray the guys who keep your entire Imperium running.
He would probably try to peacefully integrate them into the Imperium and the Imperial Truth over time though.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Betraying them? No. Even if you are the Emperor its not a very smart idea to betray the guys who keep your entire Imperium running.
He would probably try to peacefully integrate them into the Imperium and the Imperial Truth over time though.

Big E though wanted to make a world for humanity where the mechanicum didnt have a monopoly on technology. Had he realized his dream there would have not been a need for the ad mech.

No, the mechanicum was already planning on betraying the emperor, something the leviathan dreadnought was specifically designed to stop. So had the heresy not happened, a civil war with the mechanicum was certainly on the table.

There was distrust & treachery on both sides. Have a listen to "The Binary Succession".

My feeling is that if the HH hadn't happened he would have eventually put someone like Arkhan Land in charge, changing it's direction the way he wanted.

 Formosa wrote:
No, the mechanicum was already planning on betraying the emperor, something the leviathan dreadnought was specifically designed to stop. So had the heresy not happened, a civil war with the mechanicum was certainly on the table.

Is that really part of the Leviathan Dread fluff?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
No, the mechanicum was already planning on betraying the emperor, something the leviathan dreadnought was specifically designed to stop. So had the heresy not happened, a civil war with the mechanicum was certainly on the table.

Is that really part of the Leviathan Dread fluff?

beast_gts wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
No, the mechanicum was already planning on betraying the emperor, something the leviathan dreadnought was specifically designed to stop. So had the heresy not happened, a civil war with the mechanicum was certainly on the table.

Is that really part of the Leviathan Dread fluff?

Spoiler:

so they don't specificly say it,l but suggest many in the mechanium feared it might be the case. weather it weas the truth or just members of the mech being parinoid is entirely open to interpretation (as it should be )

BrianDavion wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
No, the mechanicum was already planning on betraying the emperor, something the leviathan dreadnought was specifically designed to stop. So had the heresy not happened, a civil war with the mechanicum was certainly on the table.

Is that really part of the Leviathan Dread fluff?

Spoiler:

so they don't specificly say it,l but suggest many in the mechanium feared it might be the case. weather it weas the truth or just members of the mech being parinoid is entirely open to interpretation (as it should be )

Its also part of the thanatar fluff i believe, basically along the lines of the imperium noticed the massive amount of them being built prior to the heresy and why are the mechanicum stockpiling so many, so both sides were starting to distrust each other, and if you start building tech to defeat your allies, well... you aint gonna be allies for long.

KayTwo wrote:
So, I've seen the idea that the Big E was going to ice the Primarchs as soon as the great crusade was over and this got me thinking.

I don't think he was going to wipe out the Primarchs, he had a big retirement complex built for them that Corax visits in Deliverance lost. I suspect that the Legions would have been forced/allowed to dwindle as there would be less need for standing armies of conquest.

We know he specifically planned for Magnus to sit on the Golden Throne, I suspect he had plans for many of the others too. Vulkan, Dorn and Perturabo could have been kept busy building things. Khan would have been out on patrol. Guilliman would have been in his element in admin duties. Some like Sanguinius and Fulgrim might even have been allowed to indulge their creative sides.

Angron would have been a problem but we know he was dying anyway from the Butchers Nails. Maybe he would have died before the end of the Great Crusade but we are never given an estimated lifespan for him. Maybe the Emperor would have put him in stasis until he could find a cure but that rather conflicts with his portrayal as treating the Primarchs like tools rather than sons.

 Karhedron wrote:

KayTwo wrote:
So, I've seen the idea that the Big E was going to ice the Primarchs as soon as the great crusade was over and this got me thinking.

I don't think he was going to wipe out the Primarchs, he had a big retirement complex built for them that Corax visits in Deliverance lost. I suspect that the Legions would have been forced/allowed to dwindle as there would be less need for standing armies of conquest.

We know he specifically planned for Magnus to sit on the Golden Throne, I suspect he had plans for many of the others too. Vulkan, Dorn and Perturabo could have been kept busy building things. Khan would have been out on patrol. Guilliman would have been in his element in admin duties. Some like Sanguinius and Fulgrim might even have been allowed to indulge their creative sides.

Angron would have been a problem but we know he was dying anyway from the Butchers Nails. Maybe he would have died before the end of the Great Crusade but we are never given an estimated lifespan for him. Maybe the Emperor would have put him in stasis until he could find a cure but that rather conflicts with his portrayal as treating the Primarchs like tools rather than sons.

Arkhan Land dialogue with E in master of makind shows that Angron's fate was to die eventually. Afair.
It was revealed that primitive but genius surgery of butcher's nails kept 12th primarch alive and while E could remove it he wouldn't