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Hello,
since there was a small argument about what should be discussed in the big Tactica Tyranids thread, I wanted to open a new one.

This thread here is meant to be used to discuss about Tactics and Unit Reviews of Hive Fleet Tyranids. So please keep the thread free of any allies such as GSC and AM.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am starting the thread with a unit, which was not discussed so much in the other one

Hive Crone
The Crone has been a respected FMC in 7th edition, which was quite good at destroying enemy flyers. GW has designed the rules in 8th to hit on the same spot. Unfortunately they failed imho!
If you take a look at the combined melee and shooting power of the Crone now, you will see that the results against flyers are not amazingly good. Against T6 flyers the Crone does something beteween 3.5-4 damage, while T7 flyers like the infamous Stormhawk or Stormraven are even more bullet proof against them. Of course you can roll hot dice and achieve something between 9-12 wounds, but it is much more likely that you end up doing 0-1 wounds.
However, the Crone can do other thingss for only 156 pts, which makes it one of the cheapest flyers in the game. It has a movement stat of 30 inch (fly) making it alsmost twice as fast as a Flyrant. On the contrary the Crone does not have the typical flyer rules like Airborne, Supersonic or Hard to Hit. This has some advantages and disadvantages.

Advantages:
- Melee against ground troops
- Melee against flyers
- no 90° turning necessary
- can shoot when falling back
- low minimum movement
- almost no problem with manoevering or flying off the board

Disadvantages:
- no -1 to hit for shooting
- can be charged by ground forces
- generally slower than normal flyers

The disadvantages are really nasty for the Crone, especially if you consider that it only has T6 and a 4+ Save. It is dying rather quickly and is not even save from regular infantry.
You should not forget, however, that the 30 inch movement of the Crone and the melee capabilites against ground forces are huge. This means it can easily do a first turn charge against artillery, heavy weapons teams etc. Only bubble-wrapping and her big base can come in the way. Against shooty armies with a few models the Crone can be pretty good. For example, she can reliably neglect the shooting of a 4 LasCan Predator and even damage it. Same is true for Snipers, Heavy Weapons Teams, Devastators, Razorbacks, Dark Reapers etc. The infantry heavy weapons are even easy feeding for the crone...
Of course this job can also be done by a much cheaper Lictor, however he just has a chance of about 59% for a charge and the Lictor is not very good against tanks or heavy infantery. Whereas the Crone can be huge against Centurions or Devastators.
So I would say that the Crone is not really shining in her usual job: Killing flyers. However it can be a good tarpit unit, can ping of a couple of wounds against vehicles and units and is reasonably cheap.
She cannot alone kill flyers of course, but in combination with a Flyrant she can be a good double-tap unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And another one stolen from a german forum.

Meotic Spores
They basically act in the same way as normal spore mines. However, they have a distinct deployment type. Instead of normal Spore Mines they do not come as "deep striking units" on the field. The Meotic Spores are placed directly before the first game turn 12 inch away from any enemy. That also means you already know, who will have the first turn.
Furthermore you can directly go 3 inch with the spores and even charge, which is impossible with normal spore mines. Using Onslaught you could even go 3+D6 inch and still able to charge. On average they will be only 5.1 inch away from enemy units with it, which is a pretty descent chance for a charge. Using the Swarmlord you do not even have to risk overwatch, but you can simply advance twice. Remember that any spore mines just have to be closer than 3 inch from an enemy to blow up at the end of the charge phase. This does not mean, you have to charge!
This can be very good against enemy units with strong overwatch capabilities, like the Hemlock Wraith Fighter or other units with auto-hit weapons.

So is this worth anything? Well you could place a unit of 9 Meotic Spores for 162 points. This means 162 points for a suicidal unit but for a unit, where the enemy can often not even react to. It does on average a total of 18 Mortal Wounds. This will kill every tank in the game including Land Raiders and even cripples a Knight. Not even talking about throwing hot dice there... It can btw even be good against things like Stormravens, as long as you know that you are going first. But beware of the damn Primarch granting Rerolls on all overwatch fire. In this case you will need the Swarmlord!

Counter tactics:
Well as usual you should just bubble-wrapp your juicy units. However the Tyranid player can destroy the bubble-wrap before and not all units have proper bubble wrapping...

Ive been really interested in the use of spores I hadn't considered meotic spores I'll check out their entry.

I think the normal Spore Mines as well as the Mucolid Spores are all viable.
They can both be dropped and can restrict the movement of the enemy forces. You just have to remember that they will not have a huge direct impact on the game. They might end up being only psychological warfare for your oponent.
However the problem for me is that the Mucolid and the regular Spore Mines are very similar. I do not see them fullfilling different roles.

Also a unit of Biovores is probably the better source of Spore Mines, since he can basically fire an infinite amount and also put them were they are disturbing enemy movement.

But... the Mucolid and Spore Mines can be used very well to unlock the brigade detachment very cheap.

Is it not worth starting with a few spore mines on the board to inhibit deep strikes given the ridiculously cheap points cost?

Well... I think that depends, if you want to unlock the Brigade.
Otherwise it of course also depends on your overall list, but the price for 3 Spore Mines is 30 pts. For 40 pts you can get 10 termagants more. So I would not say that their pts cost is neglectable. Better are maybe the Mucolids, because you can buy them as single models for 20 pts and they are not produceable by Biovores anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another unit, which has not been covered so much in the other thread. Please tell me, if someone wants to talk about other units specifically.

Pyrovores
Okay, they are probably the most improved unit in the Tyranid arsenal. However, I think they are still not really good or in any way necessary.
They are much cheaper, lost the terrible explosion mechanic and have a very decent flamer weapon. They actually have a Heavy Flamer (S5 DS-1) with 10 inch range. Also they are quite good in putting wounds on high armour save targets with their melee attacks. And one should not forget that they are faster than they first look like with their weapons, because they can almost always advance and still fire the flamers with full effect.
However, I find them quite underwhelming running up the table. They are still far from being fast and also loose one flamer for every model which is dying. This means that I just see them beeing viable as a backfield clearance unit, which you quite frankly do not really need with Nids or coming in with a Tyrannocyte.
The problems with the Tyrannocyte are manifold: They are pretty expensive, making it a bit of a joke to transport 3 models with flamers for around 100 pts in a Pod costing around 140+ pts. After dropping in the Pyrovores still have probably one shooting phase before they die. This is 3D6 and can very well end up being just 4-6 hits. For a "throw away" unit with a total cost of 240+ pts with Pod this is pretty underwhelming. Even if they make it to melee in the same phase, they will most likely do some wounds and afterwards die. In the end it is just 3 models with mediocre staying power.
I would most of the time recommend using 20 Devilgaunts instead of the three Pyrovores.

So overall I think that they are still pretty unnecessary.

Just a thought guys - all of this talk is still welcome in the other thread. You're welcome to continue it here in the context you desire, but it certainly would contribute to all Tyranid armies.

In my opinion, it's probably better to stand united than divided. Even saying something as simple as "how might we accomplish this using no allies?" is a valid question that we did explore some pages back (spoiler alert: we didn't really come up with any awesome ideas, hence allies). But the passion to create a new thread is great and I'm sure would contribute to the original one.

 luke1705 wrote:
Just a thought guys - all of this talk is still welcome in the other thread. You're welcome to continue it here in the context you desire, but it certainly would contribute to all Tyranid armies.

In my opinion, it's probably better to stand united than divided. Even saying something as simple as "how might we accomplish this using no allies?" is a valid question that we did explore some pages back (spoiler alert: we didn't really come up with any awesome ideas, hence allies). But the passion to create a new thread is great and I'm sure would contribute to the original one.

Agree with this. it's all nid tactics. everyone is free to bring up everything. Though if you wanted a unit by unit comparison there was this thread - https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/727222.page - started by unyielding hunger with a better format for it.

 Astmeister wrote:
Well... I think that depends, if you want to unlock the Brigade.
Otherwise it of course also depends on your overall list, but the price for 3 Spore Mines is 30 pts. For 40 pts you can get 10 termagants more. So I would not say that their pts cost is neglectable. Better are maybe the Mucolids, because you can buy them as single models for 20 pts and they are not produceable by Biovores anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another unit, which has not been covered so much in the other thread. Please tell me, if someone wants to talk about other units specifically.

Pyrovores
Okay, they are probably the most improved unit in the Tyranid arsenal. However, I think they are still not really good or in any way necessary.
They are much cheaper, lost the terrible explosion mechanic and have a very decent flamer weapon. They actually have a Heavy Flamer (S5 DS-1) with 10 inch range. Also they are quite good in putting wounds on high armour save targets with their melee attacks. And one should not forget that they are faster than they first look like with their weapons, because they can almost always advance and still fire the flamers with full effect.
However, I find them quite underwhelming running up the table. They are still far from being fast and also loose one flamer for every model which is dying. This means that I just see them beeing viable as a backfield clearance unit, which you quite frankly do not really need with Nids or coming in with a Tyrannocyte.
The problems with the Tyrannocyte are manifold: They are pretty expensive, making it a bit of a joke to transport 3 models with flamers for around 100 pts in a Pod costing around 140+ pts. After dropping in the Pyrovores still have probably one shooting phase before they die. This is 3D6 and can very well end up being just 4-6 hits. For a "throw away" unit with a total cost of 240+ pts with Pod this is pretty underwhelming. Even if they make it to melee in the same phase, they will most likely do some wounds and afterwards die. In the end it is just 3 models with mediocre staying power.
I would most of the time recommend using 20 Devilgaunts instead of the three Pyrovores.

So overall I think that they are still pretty unnecessary.

Yeah based on that I'd rather have MSU of Termegants (not hormogaunts I'd say)

Far more useful and as you say points wise...yeah I think spores only happen from Biovores for me


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 Lance845 wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Just a thought guys - all of this talk is still welcome in the other thread. You're welcome to continue it here in the context you desire, but it certainly would contribute to all Tyranid armies.

In my opinion, it's probably better to stand united than divided. Even saying something as simple as "how might we accomplish this using no allies?" is a valid question that we did explore some pages back (spoiler alert: we didn't really come up with any awesome ideas, hence allies). But the passion to create a new thread is great and I'm sure would contribute to the original one.

Agree with this. it's all nid tactics. everyone is free to bring up everything. Though if you wanted a unit by unit comparison there was this thread - https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/727222.page - started by unyielding hunger with a better format for it.

That was a great thread but he seemed to drop off the map. Shame as you say the format is excellent.

 luke1705 wrote:
Just a thought guys - all of this talk is still welcome in the other thread. You're welcome to continue it here in the context you desire, but it certainly would contribute to all Tyranid armies.

In my opinion, it's probably better to stand united than divided. Even saying something as simple as "how might we accomplish this using no allies?" is a valid question that we did explore some pages back (spoiler alert: we didn't really come up with any awesome ideas, hence allies). But the passion to create a new thread is great and I'm sure would contribute to the original one.

I can also post this stuff in the big Tactica Tyranids. As I also mentioned I am a bit concerned that this might split the Nid players to much.
The problem I have with the discussion about allies such as AM and GSC is the following: Most very active people are apparently talking about very competitive things. This means at the moment talking about allies a lot. For me this means that all the other discussions about real Tyranids stuff will be swallowed in the many other postings about competitive stuff featuring allies.
Btw I also play GSC and consider them great allies for Tyranids. But in the end I do not want to play AM + GSC + (maybe Tyranids) and also do not want to discuss this tactics super much.

So I do not generally have a problem with it. Maybe the structure of the threads is not really benificial, because the people cannot selectively look at the things they care about.

Btw part 2: The other guy is right that my things until now here more or less belong into the unit review thread. I can put them there again, but I wanted to also talk about some strategies here.

Whatever... I am at the moment not really sure if it will work out using the other thread for both positions. I will think about it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:


Yeah based on that I'd rather have MSU of Termegants (not hormogaunts I'd say)

Far more useful and as you say points wise...yeah I think spores only happen from Biovores for me

I have not decided on whether or not I would MSU Termas and such personally. I think you lose the benefit of the moral immunity and good staying power and also do not gain so much. The Termas are so cheap that you can easily just take 20+ models. Hormas as 10 body units could work as objective grabbers, but also they could not work at all.
At the moment I think that MSU Terma/Hormas might not be the way to go but rather use big units. But maybe people with more gaming experience can say something about it?

 Astmeister wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Just a thought guys - all of this talk is still welcome in the other thread. You're welcome to continue it here in the context you desire, but it certainly would contribute to all Tyranid armies.

In my opinion, it's probably better to stand united than divided. Even saying something as simple as "how might we accomplish this using no allies?" is a valid question that we did explore some pages back (spoiler alert: we didn't really come up with any awesome ideas, hence allies). But the passion to create a new thread is great and I'm sure would contribute to the original one.

I can also post this stuff in the big Tactica Tyranids. As I also mentioned I am a bit concerned that this might split the Nid players to much.
The problem I have with the discussion about allies such as AM and GSC is the following: Most very active people are apparently talking about very competitive things. This means at the moment talking about allies a lot. For me this means that all the other discussions about real Tyranids stuff will be swallowed in the many other postings about competitive stuff featuring allies.
Btw I also play GSC and consider them great allies for Tyranids. But in the end I do not want to play AM + GSC + (maybe Tyranids) and also do not want to discuss this tactics super much.

So I do not generally have a problem with it. Maybe the structure of the threads is not really benificial, because the people cannot selectively look at the things they care about.

Btw part 2: The other guy is right that my things until now here more or less belong into the unit review thread. I can put them there again, but I wanted to also talk about some strategies here.

Whatever... I am at the moment not really sure if it will work out using the other thread for both positions. I will think about it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:


Yeah based on that I'd rather have MSU of Termegants (not hormogaunts I'd say)

Far more useful and as you say points wise...yeah I think spores only happen from Biovores for me

I have not decided on whether or not I would MSU Termas and such personally. I think you lose the benefit of the moral immunity and good staying power and also do not gain so much. The Termas are so cheap that you can easily just take 20+ models. Hormas as 10 body units could work as objective grabbers, but also they could not work at all.
At the moment I think that MSU Terma/Hormas might not be the way to go but rather use big units. But maybe people with more gaming experience can say something about it?

I was just thinking they are so damn cheap you could take big units and small units. And not really worry if they get shot off the board as they won't be shooting at something else (in my case I've got around 57 genestealers so I'll be running swarmy plus 2x20 for at least an attempt at first turn charge)

There are rippers as well for back field. The low profile of the model makes it really good for hiding in terrain. Have you thought much about Rippers?

I am just getting into the game again and really like the Tyrannofex with rapture canon model.

With shooting his gun 2 times when not moving and using command points for a reroll, the weapon doesn't seem too bad to me. What do you experts think?

My issue with the Tyranofex is he almost always has to move. the Exocrine's extra range just helps him get the double shots easier.

As for spore mines, deploying them on their own is exactly how I use them. It eats up an opponent's unit's turn to get rid of them. It's a cheap way to keep a unit from moving and shooting for a turn.

For our fliers, I really do like them both, but haven't had a chance to play either of them yet. They seem like they would work far better in pairs than just single.

Anyone have any thoughts on the Maleceptor? I definitely haven't seen anyone talk about it on the other thread. I know the OP talked about it being better in 8th edition, but has anyone got any first hand accounts of it being played in 8th?

Jaq Draco lives wrote:


I was just thinking they are so damn cheap you could take big units and small units. And not really worry if they get shot off the board as they won't be shooting at something else (in my case I've got around 57 genestealers so I'll be running swarmy plus 2x20 for at least an attempt at first turn charge)

There are rippers as well for back field. The low profile of the model makes it really good for hiding in terrain. Have you thought much about Rippers?

You can absolutely try small units of Gants. The problem seems to be their bubble-wrapping ability. They die quickly and with the big and dangerous melee units, you have the disadvantage that they can easily used to slingshot the mean units into your squishy stuff inside the wrap. And since split fire is a thing, I do not think that most armies would waste so much shots killing them anyway.

I have not thought much about Ripper swarms, since I do not think it is necessary. They are amazing!
They are perfect for grabbing objectives, have a decent staying power, are very cheap and thus perfect to fill troop slots for Brigade and such. I mean it hit them slightly that they have to come in on turn 3, but that is not a real problem. In Maelstorm they seem even better.
I think that you could spend points leftover on Rippers any time you want. The question is, if you want to take more than 1 unit, since the army has so many good and cheap units besides Rippers as well.
On a sidenote: Lictors are just 11 points more and are even harder to shift. As long as you do not need troops, you can also consider them. Of course they do normally fullfill a completely different role. And that is tarpitting heavy weapon teams (we need a new word instead of tarpitting. I vote for bitch-slapping ;-))


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warwarwar wrote:
I am just getting into the game again and really like the Tyrannofex with rapture canon model.

With shooting his gun 2 times when not moving and using command points for a reroll, the weapon doesn't seem too bad to me. What do you experts think?

My 2 cents:
You only ever want to take a Rupture cannon T-Fex against T8 units. And even then it is often better to use something else to kill the Tank/Whatever like 20 GS with Tox Sacs.
The T-Fex involves a massive amount of lucky dice rolling, which makes it very unreliable. You can easily take off 10 Wounds on a Land Raider with it, but also completly fail to do any damage a turn. If you compare it to a LasCan Predator it is actually performing worse in most of the cases. I mean when all of the shots of the T-Fex hit, it is brutal. But the same is true for the Predator...
So it is actually quite bad in my oppinion, however it has the niche of being the only good far range heavy tank hunter in the whole codex.

Ive never tried the Tyrannofex but at that points cost there shouldn't be any question of its ability and there does seem to be

Maleceptor
The Maleceptor is also in the row of one of the most improved units of all Tyranids.
Is it viable: Yes!
Is it necessary: No!

The Maleceptor is suprisingly one of the most durable MCs in the Tyranid arsenal. It gained a 3+ Save and T7 and still has its 5++. This can actually be a big deal, since most anti Monster/Tank weapons will wound models with T7/8 equally well, but will get pissed about the 3+/5++ combination.
The speed is en par with the other MCs from Tyranids and it can almost always advance, since it is just using Psi most of the time. This makes it reasonably fast and slightly faster than the rest of the MCs.
With lucky dice rolls you can even do stuff in melee with it! You could kill a medium tank in a single round of combat with S7 and D6 Wounds.
The only real reason to take the Maleceptor is its Psi abilities. The Nova ability is imho a bit underwhelming, just doing 1 Mortal Wound to mostly everything in range. It has several problems:
- very low range
- just 1 wound
- you cannot use psi in the same turn
It will not be very game changing and is very hard to apply to more than one unit at a time.

Maybe the hidden jewel of the Maleceptor is its ability to use psi powers with +1 to cast! This means that you have roughly a 27% chance of doing D6 Mortal wounds on the nearest enemy, which you can probably choose since the Maleceptor is quite fast. When you then use a CP to reroll the wound dice, this can be downright brutal. Remember that it is of course also very hard to dispell a high result on smite.
I think that they can really be major damage dealer if you bring them in pairs or even 3 Maleceptors. However, you have to remember that Psi can always be dispelled and is quite unreliable. Couple this with the high cost of the Maleceptor and you have a unit which can be a bit of a gamble.
Unfortunately the Maleceptor does not contribute too much to the army, which we absolutely need. He can be nice, if you have to take down flyers e.g. but it is not clear to me if he would perform better than 4+ Zoanthropes. And these I would also not consider really necessary in most lists.

Yes I read and almost instantly dismissed the Maleceptor, mainly it just didn't gel with my particular army units but as you say it seems like a gamble.

It may get better when we have more powers to choose from.

 SideshowLucifer wrote:
It may get better when we have more powers to choose from.

This is indeed true. However, I doubt that there will be a super amazing power where you desperately need the +1.
I also believe that the new codex Tyranids is very far away and when it introduces new powers, the Maleceptor will likely be quite different from now. So this is a bit of fortune telling...

 Astmeister wrote:
Maleceptor
The Maleceptor is also in the row of one of the most improved units of all Tyranids.
Is it viable: Yes!
Is it necessary: No!

The Maleceptor is suprisingly one of the most durable MCs in the Tyranid arsenal. It gained a 3+ Save and T7 and still has its 5++. This can actually be a big deal, since most anti Monster/Tank weapons will wound models with T7/8 equally well, but will get pissed about the 3+/5++ combination.
The speed is en par with the other MCs from Tyranids and it can almost always advance, since it is just using Psi most of the time. This makes it reasonably fast and slightly faster than the rest of the MCs.
With lucky dice rolls you can even do stuff in melee with it! You could kill a medium tank in a single round of combat with S7 and D6 Wounds.
The only real reason to take the Maleceptor is its Psi abilities. The Nova ability is imho a bit underwhelming, just doing 1 Mortal Wound to mostly everything in range. It has several problems:
- very low range
- just 1 wound
- you cannot use psi in the same turn
It will not be very game changing and is very hard to apply to more than one unit at a time.

Maybe the hidden jewel of the Maleceptor is its ability to use psi powers with +1 to cast! This means that you have roughly a 27% chance of doing D6 Mortal wounds on the nearest enemy, which you can probably choose since the Maleceptor is quite fast. When you then use a CP to reroll the wound dice, this can be downright brutal. Remember that it is of course also very hard to dispell a high result on smite.
I think that they can really be major damage dealer if you bring them in pairs or even 3 Maleceptors. However, you have to remember that Psi can always be dispelled and is quite unreliable. Couple this with the high cost of the Maleceptor and you have a unit which can be a bit of a gamble.
Unfortunately the Maleceptor does not contribute too much to the army, which we absolutely need. He can be nice, if you have to take down flyers e.g. but it is not clear to me if he would perform better than 4+ Zoanthropes. And these I would also not consider really necessary in most lists.

Thanks for the input! I've been wanting to try him out, but never know what best roll it's going to play in a Tyranid Fleet. My first attempt will be hopefully this week. My plan is to use Maleceptor, Swarmlord and a full unit of Tyrant Guard carried in via Tyrannocyte and hopefully roll a flank with them. Having the Maleceptor should provide both beatstick and backup onslaught should Swarmy fails his roll.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Astmeister wrote:

 SideshowLucifer wrote:
It may get better when we have more powers to choose from.

This is indeed true. However, I doubt that there will be a super amazing power where you desperately need the +1.
I also believe that the new codex Tyranids is very far away and when it introduces new powers, the Maleceptor will likely be quite different from now. So this is a bit of fortune telling...

Of that I have no doubt

 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:


Thanks for the input! I've been wanting to try him out, but never know what best roll it's going to play in a Tyranid Fleet. My first attempt will be hopefully this week. My plan is to use Maleceptor, Swarmlord and a full unit of Tyrant Guard carried in via Tyrannocyte and hopefully roll a flank with them. Having the Maleceptor should provide both beatstick and backup onslaught should Swarmy fails his roll.

I hope you are aware of the fact that you will have to use 3 Tyrannocytes for your plan? This means you are dropping 1000 pts with just 3 units of which one (the swarmlord) is a reasonable fighter. Also in matched play you can only try to cast Onslaught once per turn.

Q1: Does 9 warriors justefy a prime?

Q2: Venom cannons or stranglethorn cannons? Spinefist, devourer or what's-it's-name as regular guns?

 Niiai wrote:
Q1: Does 9 warriors justefy a prime?

Q2: Venom cannons or stranglethorn cannons? Spinefist, devourer or what's-it's-name as regular guns?

A1: I think a Prime is only ever justified, if you need another HQ choice for Detachment reasons and play a lot of Warriors. Maybe 9 are enough, maybe even 6 can be enough. The problem is that he had the niche of being the cheapest HQ, but now the Malanthrope is much better. And for the 100+ points you can easily buy 3-4 additonal Warriors, which will have more effect on the game than +1 to hit from the Prime.

A2: Venom cannon! It is actually quite good and pretty decent in pinging off wounds from mid to heavy vehicles, which we lack anyway. I would not take Spinefists unless you want to be very assaulty with the Warriors (also they are too expensive). Devourer is the cheap an nice version, however the Deathspitters are basically low range Heavy Bolters. That can be quite scary!

Warriors
I think the Warriors are very though to rate. They can be very important and usefull, but can also be totally unnecessary.
First of all I think they are not really usefull in the recently en-vogue all-assault armies. Secondly I think that Warriors are a allrounder unit in an army of specialists. This is a bit weird and makes them hard to integrate.
Since they are allrounders, I would also not try to specialize them. You could play them as pure assault or pure shooty units, but other units can do this better. So make them allrounders and give them a shooting weapon and Rending Claws or even Lash Whip + Boneswords (just 2 pts!). With these they can also fill the niche of having decent melee capabilities against MEQs and also can shoot with small anti-tank weapons and heavy Bolter equivalents (Deathspitter and Venom Canon).

So I would play them in the following way:
3 Warriors
1x Venom Canon, 2x Deathspitters, 3x Lash Whip + Bonesword, Adrenal Glands
94 pts

You can make them bigger, but this reduces your Synapse coverage, while increasing the melee capabilities. I am not sure if it is worth it.

I would probably use them in armies which are not all-assault, foot-slogging TAC armies and armies with a solid fire base of Exocrines, Biovores or Hive Guard. In all occassions the Malanthrope is still a big competitor for a unit of Warriors, but the Warriors have the advantage of enhancing your shooting. I would take both.

 Niiai wrote:
Q1: Does 9 warriors justefy a prime?

Q2: Venom cannons or stranglethorn cannons? Spinefist, devourer or what's-it's-name as regular guns?

Absolutely. Warriors with Deathspitters or Devourers are some of, if not THE most cost efficient source of Synapse in the Dex. If you have a Prime with them they start matching with Fleshborer Tyrannofex's for damage except without the movement restriction, and a much more really powerful combat. Warriors are an absolutely excellent unit. Just don't waste points on the heavy weapons, Venom Cannons are less effective than Deathspitters vs basically everything and the Strangler is even worse.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Q1: Does 9 warriors justefy a prime?

Q2: Venom cannons or stranglethorn cannons? Spinefist, devourer or what's-it's-name as regular guns?

Absolutely. Warriors with Deathspitters or Devourers are some of, if not THE most cost efficient source of Synapse in the Dex. If you have a Prime with them they start matching with Fleshborer Tyrannofex's for damage except without the movement restriction, and a much more really powerful combat. Warriors are an absolutely excellent unit. Just don't waste points on the heavy weapons, Venom Cannons are less effective than Deathspitters vs basically everything and the Strangler is even worse.

I disagree regarding the Venom Cannon. It is on average better against T6/7 and equally good against T8. Also you can still roll 3 shots, which makes it slightly better than the Deathspitter. Also it just costs 1 pt more than the Deathspitter and has double the range, which is often very important. I would always take as many as possible!

I am finding I am losing my 3 man squad of warriors first turn..

but then then carnifex do go across the board and smash face

So when I play I am thinking my lists needs some of the following elements:

Ranged support: This will almost always mean my 6 hiveguards, depending om point size. They will need synapse. Perhaps 3 bare warriors or a lone zoanthrope.

A strong core: Probably a tervigon with devilgaunts. Perhaps some counter charge units like warriors or ravaners. Perhaps a tyranofex. Perhaps a venomtrope.

Backline disruption: Probably a trygon/trygon prime, 2 mawlocks and something in the tunnel. Warriors or devilgaunts. I considered ravaners here as well, but if your oponent shoots away the synapse and assault the ravaners there will be trouble.

Objective grabbers: A couple of units of ripper swarms. I am unsure about these as it will almost always make me go last.

Idependent agents: I feel like the mawlock already fits this, but the mawlock lacks punch. Perhaps some dakkafexes.

That would be my general army, and i can scale it up and down based on points. Thoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GodDamUser wrote:
I am finding I am losing my 3 man squad of warriors first turn..

but then then carnifex do go across the board and smash face

3 man squads of warriors can be good in smaller games. But in larger once I would keep then fairly cheap. Perhaps a venom cannon. The reason if you oponent wants to kill them he can.

Warriors can be better in larger groups as the weak once die out first.

 Niiai wrote:
So when I play I am thinking my lists needs some of the following elements:

Ranged support: This will almost always mean my 6 hiveguards, depending om point size. They will need synapse. Perhaps 3 bare warriors or a lone zoanthrope.

A strong core: Probably a tervigon with devilgaunts. Perhaps some counter charge units like warriors or ravaners. Perhaps a tyranofex. Perhaps a venomtrope.

Backline disruption: Probably a trygon/trygon prime, 2 mawlocks and something in the tunnel. Warriors or devilgaunts. I considered ravaners here as well, but if your oponent shoots away the synapse and assault the ravaners there will be trouble.

Objective grabbers: A couple of units of ripper swarms. I am unsure about these as it will almost always make me go last.

Idependent agents: I feel like the mawlock already fits this, but the mawlock lacks punch. Perhaps some dakkafexes.

That would be my general army, and i can scale it up and down based on points. Thoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GodDamUser wrote:
I am finding I am losing my 3 man squad of warriors first turn..

but then then carnifex do go across the board and smash face

3 man squads of warriors can be good in smaller games. But in larger once I would keep then fairly cheap. Perhaps a venom cannon. The reason if you oponent wants to kill them he can.

Warriors can be better in larger groups as the weak once die out first.

Your planned armylist sounds reasonable and also quite nice as TAC. Of course you have to remember that the list is only suitable for objective grabbing. You cannot overrun most enemy lists with such a force and have to play objective based.
I would like to see a list!

Ablative Warriors are possible, but most often they seem like a waste of resources. In the end you can take a lot of units for cheap in the Tyranids arsenal, which can make a big impact on the game. Some more warriors as sacrifices are likely not super necessary. But I think it might be worth a try. At least more cheap Warriors make the unit more scary in melee and their shooting is also quite nice.

 Astmeister wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Q1: Does 9 warriors justefy a prime?

Q2: Venom cannons or stranglethorn cannons? Spinefist, devourer or what's-it's-name as regular guns?

Absolutely. Warriors with Deathspitters or Devourers are some of, if not THE most cost efficient source of Synapse in the Dex. If you have a Prime with them they start matching with Fleshborer Tyrannofex's for damage except without the movement restriction, and a much more really powerful combat. Warriors are an absolutely excellent unit. Just don't waste points on the heavy weapons, Venom Cannons are less effective than Deathspitters vs basically everything and the Strangler is even worse.

I disagree regarding the Venom Cannon. It is on average better against T6/7 and equally good against T8. Also you can still roll 3 shots, which makes it slightly better than the Deathspitter. Also it just costs 1 pt more than the Deathspitter and has double the range, which is often very important. I would always take as many as possible!

And it can also do 1 shot. On average it rolls 2. But you are right, this one actually isn't that bad. I forgot that the true bad one is the Heavy Venom Cannon, not worth it over double Deathspitters

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Q1: Does 9 warriors justefy a prime?

Q2: Venom cannons or stranglethorn cannons? Spinefist, devourer or what's-it's-name as regular guns?

Absolutely. Warriors with Deathspitters or Devourers are some of, if not THE most cost efficient source of Synapse in the Dex. If you have a Prime with them they start matching with Fleshborer Tyrannofex's for damage except without the movement restriction, and a much more really powerful combat. Warriors are an absolutely excellent unit. Just don't waste points on the heavy weapons, Venom Cannons are less effective than Deathspitters vs basically everything and the Strangler is even worse.

I disagree regarding the Venom Cannon. It is on average better against T6/7 and equally good against T8. Also you can still roll 3 shots, which makes it slightly better than the Deathspitter. Also it just costs 1 pt more than the Deathspitter and has double the range, which is often very important. I would always take as many as possible!

And it can also do 1 shot. On average it rolls 2. But you are right, this one actually isn't that bad. I forgot that the true bad one is the Heavy Venom Cannon, not worth it over double Deathspitters

Yes, it is unfortunately bad. Though I even consider it for Fexes and even Walkrants, because we have so few alternatives for long ranged AT. Also they look cool... super big gun!