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2017/07/07 19:04:31
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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So... with the latest missile developments that is almost an ICBM, that can theoretically now reach Alaska and Hawaii...
Now what?
Keep in mind, that we're technically still at war... only that it's "on pause" now. So no formal agreement from UN or US Congress is needed to re-engage. (egads!!!)
https://www.cfr.org/expert-brief/taking-north-korea-g20
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-idUSKBN19P02W
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/04/us/politics/trump-north-korea-missile-icbm.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g20-northkorea-idUSKBN19S242
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/449280/north-korea-icbm-test-crosses-red-line-nuclear-crisis
There are no good options... is... letting NK become fully nuclearized (sp?) the best option?
Seems to me, is that if we want to force China/RU to de-nuclearize NK... maybe the best card on the table for the US is to threaten support for Japan (or, more provocatively Taiwan) to build their own ICBM nukes?
Acquiescence the South China Sea to China in return for their help to de-nuclearize NK?
Re-engaging hostilities at the 38th parallel just seems too knarly.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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2017/07/07 19:12:41
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
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I advocate for a parking lot.
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H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
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2017/07/07 19:14:57
Subject: Re:What to do with North Korea...
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!
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Give Kim Jong Un the hug he clearly needs.
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Ghorros wrote:The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote:All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors. |
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2017/07/07 19:15:08
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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I'm more partial to recognize China's expanded claim to the South Sea than that...
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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2017/07/07 19:18:08
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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Fate-Controlling Farseer
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Status quo.
China doesn't want North Korea. They have a big enough issue as it is facing their welfare implosion in the next 10 years.
South Korea doesn't want to reintegrate. It will collapse their economy, bringing in millions of illiterate subsistence farmers.
None of us want that war, because the death toll would be horrendous. Millions dead in days.
Keep things as they are. It bloody sucks, but the option is the best of a bag of gakky options.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/07 19:18:36
Full Frontal Nerdity |
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2017/07/07 19:18:25
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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Whatever happens .
China will be involved but even they are losing patience with the the new Kim.
Plus he not visit as much as previous, abs seems to have less of a good relationship with China. One that was pretty solid under his Father and his father also visited Russia.
He cultivated at least semi friends better.
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Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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2017/07/07 19:34:10
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation |
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2017/07/07 19:43:38
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress
Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.
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So lets get this straight, North Korea can technically nuke parts of South Korea with a reasonable degree of possibility of it happening ad people are generally ok with that.
Now they have a 0.0000001% chance of nuking Alaska and people are panicking and wondering if the US should invade.
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n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. |
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2017/07/07 19:44:07
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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Fiery Bright Wizard
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Not sure, but if everyone keeps sittiing on their hands and NK keeps it up then eventually it will be to the point of no return. IMO I can't see any of this ending with anything but mass death.
If you don't neuter them now, then 10-20-30 years down the line the crap will still hit the fan. It's just a question of when...not so much an "if".
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2017/07/07 19:47:39
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Orlanth wrote:So lets get this straight, North Korea can technically nuke parts of South Korea with a reasonable degree of possibility of it happening ad people are generally ok with that.
Now they have a 0.0000001% chance of nuking Alaska and people are panicking and wondering if the US should invade.
Won't someone think of the POLAR BEARS!
Alternatively totally back off. Announce the US is leaving in five years. If Sk wants to buy some nukes, sell them. Same for Japan. Move on and get out.
Remember NK can't exist without China, and China uses them as a bargaining chip. Automatically Appended Next Post: Thargrim wrote:Not sure, but if everyone keeps sittiing on their hands and NK keeps it up then eventually it will be to the point of no return. IMO I can't see any of this ending with anything but mass death.
If you don't neuter them now, then 10-20-30 years down the line the crap will still hit the fan. It's just a question of when...not so much an "if".
Point of No return for what? They will be able to nuke us, and we will be able to nuke them. UNless you're advocating using nukes on them now followed by fulls scale invasion in which case...you go first.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/07 19:49:11
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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2017/07/07 19:49:15
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Orlanth wrote:So lets get this straight, North Korea can technically nuke parts of South Korea with a reasonable degree of possibility of it happening ad people are generally ok with that.
Not sure I'd agree with "people are generally ok with that" assessment.
Now they have a 0.0000001% chance of nuking Alaska and people are panicking and wondering if the US should invade.
For a country as belligerent as NK, I think each time their missile technologies advances... you'd have to reassess your stance.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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2017/07/07 19:50:34
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
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What if NK elects their version of Donald Trump? All it takes is one wacko in charge to turn Seoul to glass.
We are going to have to spend a trillion dollars bombing the gak out of them.
Might as well be now.
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2017/07/07 19:52:46
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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JimOnMars wrote:What if NK elects their version of Donald Trump? All it takes is one wacko in charge to turn Seoul to glass.
We are going to have to spend a trillion dollars bombing the gak out of them.
Might as well be now.
As noted, you go. If SK wants to declare war they can go right ahead after we leave.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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2017/07/07 19:54:13
Subject: Re:What to do with North Korea...
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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I guess the big question, what is stopping NK and SK from signing a peace agreement with one another?
Is it simply nuke deterrance?
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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2017/07/07 20:12:42
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Nuke it from orbit. Automatically Appended Next Post: JimOnMars wrote:What if NK elects their version of Donald Trump? All it takes is one wacko in charge to turn Seoul to glass.
We are going to have to spend a trillion dollars bombing the gak out of them.
Might as well be now.
You think North Korea has elections? Thats cute.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/07 20:13:11
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2017/07/07 20:26:43
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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Fate-Controlling Farseer
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JimOnMars wrote:What if NK elects their version of Donald Trump? All it takes is one wacko in charge to turn Seoul to glass.
We are going to have to spend a trillion dollars bombing the gak out of them.
Might as well be now.
The simple fact that you think a man who does stuff like this.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2546506/North-Korean-leader-Kim-Jong-Un-executes-family-uncle-Jang-Song-Thaek.html
Is not worse then Donald Trump just shows how out to lunch you are.
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Full Frontal Nerdity |
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2017/07/07 20:33:53
Subject: Re:What to do with North Korea...
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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I can imagine a number of approaches.
In an earlier thread on this topic I proposed that we should drop $10 billion dollar notes with LSD on them over the countries' cities, and wait to see what happened.
If we are looking for more conventional approaches, let's consider war. The UN is technically at war with N Korea anyway, so it wouldn't be hard to take their continued provocations and illegal acts as a casus belli. Before declaring the cease fire rescinded, special forces teams should be infiltrated to identify high value targets such as fuel reserves. Then, a five pronged attack from Russia, China, South Korea and both coasts, supported by carrier forces and air forces from Japan. Hopefully it would not be met with fanatical resistance, but if it were, a careful advance with lots of air superiority would limit allied casualties and the defenders would collapse from lack of supplies.
Another method is subversion. Find a variety of inducements and support to organise a coup from within the top level of the N Korean political class.
A third method is to continue with the current policy of diplomacy but intensify it to cut North Korea off from the world and let it wither on the vine.
All these approaches need the support primarily of the Chinese.
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2017/07/07 20:35:45
Subject: Re:What to do with North Korea...
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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All these approaches need the support primarily of the Chinese.
I think we've found your problem right there.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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2017/07/07 20:36:36
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
Why Aye Ya Canny Dakkanaughts!
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JimOnMars wrote:What if NK elects their version of Donald Trump? All it takes is one wacko in charge to turn Seoul to glass.
We are going to have to spend a trillion dollars bombing the gak out of them.
Might as well be now.
Wait, Donald Trump nuked South America!? Oh my god! Oh... wait, no he hasn't.
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Ghorros wrote:The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote:All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors. |
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2017/07/07 20:41:54
Subject: Re:What to do with North Korea...
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Fate-Controlling Farseer
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Kilkrazy wrote:I can imagine a number of approaches.
In an earlier thread on this topic I proposed that we should drop $10 billion dollar notes with LSD on them over the countries' cities, and wait to see what happened.
If we are looking for more conventional approaches, let's consider war. The UN is technically at war with N Korea anyway, so it wouldn't be hard to take their continued provocations and illegal acts as a casus belli. Before declaring the cease fire rescinded, special forces teams should be infiltrated to identify high value targets such as fuel reserves. Then, a five pronged attack from Russia, China, South Korea and both coasts, supported by carrier forces and air forces from Japan. Hopefully it would not be met with fanatical resistance, but if it were, a careful advance with lots of air superiority would limit allied casualties and the defenders would collapse from lack of supplies.
Another method is subversion. Find a variety of inducements and support to organise a coup from within the top level of the N Korean political class.
A third method is to continue with the current policy of diplomacy but intensify it to cut North Korea off from the world and let it wither on the vine.
All these approaches need the support primarily of the Chinese.
The biggest issue is the thousands of artillery pieces, hidden in armored bunkers on the DMZ, zeroed in on Seoul. The outset of hostilities, Seoul gets erased.
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Full Frontal Nerdity |
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2017/07/07 20:43:01
Subject: Re:What to do with North Korea...
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Frazzled wrote:
All these approaches need the support primarily of the Chinese.
I think we've found your problem right there.
The Chinese are eager to take a bigger role on the world's stage, as witness their stepping up to the plate on the Climate Change Paris Accord. I think they could be persuaded.
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2017/07/07 20:44:25
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
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By "elect their version of Trump" was a metaphor for the next guy to come to power who was categorically worse than all others who came before him.
Metaphor, guys, metaphor.
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2017/07/07 20:49:54
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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JimOnMars wrote:By "elect their version of Trump" was a metaphor for the next guy to come to power who was categorically worse than all others who came before him.
Metaphor, guys, metaphor.
Bad metaphors.
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2017/07/07 20:54:51
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress
Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.
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One way to solve Norh Korea is o offer blanket 'Idi Amin' deals, they would have to be offered to all important officials.
The deal Idi Amin was offered and took was that if he relinquished power then he, his family and his lieutenants would be given blanket and total immunity from prosecution and can live out their lives in a luxury gated community (not to be read as prison, but bearing some vague similarities hey could leave to do things, even relocate but through a managedprocess). It worked as an offer. Idi Amin died a free man in Saudi Arabia and Uganda had a government change without a bloody war.
Pinochet got the same offer, and accepted it then years later was arrested in the UK when the Blair government refused to honour prior treaties. This caused some problems for this program. and may be factored into why Saddam Hussein was offered similar but refused.
Pinochet's case make give the North Korean junta some pause for thought, however there is still hope and principal that it is easier to let a dictator get away with his crimes on a personal level if they give up power and don't force a war to remove them.
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n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. |
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2017/07/07 21:00:03
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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Battlefield Tourist
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I reckon if this problem was solvable, we'd have solved it already. Like djones520 says, any aggressive act could result in horrific causalities in Seoul, and everyone knows that. Unless we develop some sort of foolproof way to prevent that, we're limited in what we can do.
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2017/07/07 21:02:34
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Orlanth wrote:One way to solve Norh Korea is o offer blanket 'Idi Amin' deals, they would have to be offered to all important officials.
The deal Idi Amin was offered and took was that if he relinquished power then he, his family and his lieutenants would be given blanket and total immunity from prosecution and can live out their lives in a luxury gated community (not to be read as prison, but bearing some vague similarities hey could leave to do things, even relocate but through a managedprocess). It worked as an offer. Idi Amin died a free man in Saudi Arabia and Uganda had a government change without a bloody war.
Pinochet got the same offer, and accepted it then years later was arrested in the UK when the Blair government refused to honour prior treaties. This caused some problems for this program. and may be factored into why Saddam Hussein was offered similar but refused.
Pinochet's case make give the North Korean junta some pause for thought, however there is still hope and principal that it is easier to let a dictator get away with his crimes on a personal level if they give up power and don't force a war to remove them.
Don't think that'll work... lil' Kim is God-Emperor of North Korea.
Can't see him giving that up.
The current state is favorable for China... that is, having NK being a "thorn" to the West.
If Japan or SK starts amassing Nukes... that calculus may change.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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2017/07/07 21:23:35
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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We need that Oprah Meme where everyone gets a car, but replace it with Nukes.
That will show them.
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2017/07/07 22:07:35
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Da Boss wrote:I reckon if this problem was solvable, we'd have solved it already.
Every problem is solvable, you just need the political will do so. The fact that North Korea now is just about capable of landing a nuclear weapon onto Hawaii and Alaska has changed the situation.
Every president since the mid-80s has kicked the can down the road, and now we're out of road.
I would still lean towards leaning on China - there has to be some sort of deal to be made.
War is really not a serious option, I don't think, all things being equal - there are just going to be too many casualties. Of course "all things being equal" isn't always a permanent state of affairs.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/07 22:10:46
lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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2017/07/07 22:12:51
Subject: Re:What to do with North Korea...
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Kilkrazy wrote:IAll these approaches need the support primarily of the Chinese.
Yep either in a passive or active capacity China has to be on board. Until the Chinese get sick of N.Korea and decide to either take action themselves or cut them loose and look the other way, containment is the least worst option.
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2017/07/07 22:48:42
Subject: What to do with North Korea...
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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ANY strategy that involves Patrick explaining how it works is fine with me. Ill at least hear the Starfish out.
Funny though I was just talking about when someone should do something with N. Korea.
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