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I noticed that one of the combat drugs available for the <Wych Cult> units gives +1 WS and I wonder if that bonus works as a modifier or simply changes the base WS of the model/unit. I mean, I'm asking if this is a way to let the succubus hit on 2s with the archite glaive which confers a -1 malus to her WS.

The problem is that bonus seems to change the basic WS value, which is already 2+ in the succubus profile. And that means that even with the +1WS granted by the combat drug the succubus must still hit on 3s with the archite glaive anyway. Is this correct?

 Blackie wrote:
I noticed that one of the combat drugs available for the <Wych Cult> units gives +1 WS and I wonder if that bonus works as a modifier or simply changes the base WS of the model/unit. I mean, I'm asking if this is a way to let the succubus hit on 2s with the archite glaive which confers a -1 malus to her WS.

The problem is that bonus seems to change the basic WS value, which is already 2+ in the succubus profile. And that means that even with the +1WS granted by the combat drug the succubus must still hit on 3s with the archite glaive anyway. Is this correct?

There is no limit to characteristics anymore other than "characteristics of ‘-’ can never be modified, and the Strength, Toughness and Leadership characteristics of a model can never be modified below 1.". You can have a WS of 1+ or 0+ just fine, but a 1 will always miss regardless. So in this case you'll be hitting on 2's with the archite glaive.

(This is, of course, ignoring the fact that RaW the Serpentin drug only affects WS3+ models because it says "i.e." instead of "e.g")

Edit: I'm not actually 100% sure now, since it says "A roll of 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers that may apply." which might mean a 2 with a -1 to hit modifier will always miss.

well i do believe that the modifiers will cancel each other out.

e.g. +1 WS but then the glaive -1 WS

You hit on 3+

WS 1+ is what you compare the dice results to but a 1 is always a fail.

You roll your attacks and get a 2

This 2 is not a miss according to your WS so you cant use the reroll 1's rule the succubus has.

You then apply the archite glaive modifier to the roll - which is -1 as modifiers are done after rerolls. This means your roll of 2 is changed to a 1... which always misses

Once you get the +1 to hit rolls from PFP turn 3, you then can cancel the -1 to hit and hit on 2+

The roll of a 1 always fails irrespective of modifiers doesn't apply though, because irrespective of modifiers you rolled a 2? That;s how it reads to me. You hit on a 2+ with the +1 weapon skill drug and an archite glaive.

Drager wrote:
The roll of a 1 always fails irrespective of modifiers doesn't apply though, because irrespective of modifiers you rolled a 2? That;s how it reads to me. You hit on a 2+ with the +1 weapon skill drug and an archite glaive.

By that logic then plasma wouldn't explode due to modifiers, which is not the case.

You roll a two, you subtract one. The end result is one. The rules don't give two gaks whether the one is a "natural" or a modified one, it's a one and thus misses/fails to wound/fails the save.

Plasma doesn't say irrespective of any modifiers, does it?

I don't use plasma much as I rarely play Imperial so am not 100% on the rule.

Drager wrote:
Plasma doesn't say irrespective of any modifiers, does it?

I don't use plasma much as I rarely play Imperial so am not 100% on the rule.

You're putting too much emphasis on the word "irrespective". That doesn't mean "ignore modifiers", it means "it doesn't matter if it's a modified 1 or a natural 1".

 Blackie wrote:
I noticed that one of the combat drugs available for the <Wych Cult> units gives +1 WS and I wonder if that bonus works as a modifier or simply changes the base WS of the model/unit. I mean, I'm asking if this is a way to let the succubus hit on 2s with the archite glaive which confers a -1 malus to her WS.

The problem is that bonus seems to change the basic WS value, which is already 2+ in the succubus profile. And that means that even with the +1WS granted by the combat drug the succubus must still hit on 3s with the archite glaive anyway. Is this correct?

When you attack with your succubus you throw your dice and reroll the natural ones (from the succubus' ability).
Then for each die you subtract one to the number (from the glaive), and compare it to your WS. A 2 becomes a 1, which I think is still a miss because rolls of 1 always miss (I agree that "irrespective of modifiers" doesn't mean "unmodified roll of 1").

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Drager wrote:
Plasma doesn't say irrespective of any modifiers, does it?

I don't use plasma much as I rarely play Imperial so am not 100% on the rule.

You're putting too much emphasis on the word "irrespective". That doesn't mean "ignore modifiers", it means "it doesn't matter if it's a modified 1 or a natural 1".

Why do you believe this? You seem to want to disregard only positive modifiers, why?

Got it. So a succubus with a glaive hits on 2s since her WS becomes 1+ and I must substract 1 from the hit roll making rolls of 2s succesful. But she also gets ro reroll ones.

1 always fails so a 2 with the -1 penalty is a fail. On turn 3 when PfP gets you +1 to hit rolls you will hit on 2 as the penalty is effectively negated.

 Massaen wrote:
1 always fails so a 2 with the -1 penalty is a fail. On turn 3 when PfP gets you +1 to hit rolls you will hit on 2 as the penalty is effectively negated.

The rule says "A roll of a 1 always fails irrespective of modifiers that may apply." If you roll a 2 then, irrespective of modifiers, you rolled a 2. So the 1s miss rule doesn't apply here as you are ignoring the irrespective of modifiers part. At least that is how I read it. I'm pretty sure a natural 1 always fails as for this rule you ignore modifiers.

Drager wrote:

 Massaen wrote:
1 always fails so a 2 with the -1 penalty is a fail. On turn 3 when PfP gets you +1 to hit rolls you will hit on 2 as the penalty is effectively negated.

The rule says "A roll of a 1 always fails irrespective of modifiers that may apply." If you roll a 2 then, irrespective of modifiers, you rolled a 2. So the 1s miss rule doesn't apply here as you are ignoring the irrespective of modifiers part. At least that is how I read it. I'm pretty sure a natural 1 always fails as for this rule you ignore modifiers.

Again, you're not using the word irrespective correctly. It doesn't mean "ignore all modifiers", it means "whether you use modifiers or not."

If you roll a 2 then you cant apply the rule that is part of the 1's fail rule. You can indeed modify it to a 1...

Baconcatbug has the gist of it!