Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've got 4 Plasma Cannon, 2 Lascannons, 2 Heavy Bolters, and 2 Missile Launchers to spread out between 3 tactical Squads and (right now 1 Devastor Squad but planning on buying another box soon.)

What do you guys think would be the best way to load out squads?

I'm thinking of getting another box, going heavy bolters or missile launchers for the tac squads and lascannons on the dev squads.
I don't know what to do with the Dev squads. It seems like leaving a captain/ lieutenant (can't remember which one adds +1 to hit.) with them to raise the roll for plasma cannons would be a waste of potential for the hero unit.

What do you guys think?

I think with marines - it matters what is in the rest of your list.

Marines are amazing - we can have a huge diversity of weapons in almost every single slot (heck, almost every unit).

For example, do you tac squads have plasma and plasma cannons? Do you have lots dakka? then run lascannons in your devs.

Or do you have lots of melta everywhere, but lack dakka - run missiles or heavy bolters.

I personally run missiles -as I have plasma in tac squads, dakka on assault cannon razorbacks and melta on my bike squads. The missiles are a nice mix due the to the awesomeness of the frag and krak.

in 7th I was running plasma guns and no heavy weapons in tac squads due to heavy weapon snapfire and 2 lascannon/ 2 missile launcher in my dev squad as I didn't have money to 4 man one weapon type.

With heavy weapons only at a -1 now they seem WAY more viable in tac squads, so it has lead me to question where to place everything more.

I built the 2 heavy bolters originally just for modeling as they're kind of the iconic devastator weapon, but they seem like they might be decent this edition for the dakka. Missile launcher with the tacs might be more flexible depending on the situation though.

It would be fun to go back to running 4 plasma cannon dev squads since they just melt heavy infantry. Only thing is that leaves me really open on anti vehicle. I might have to wittle down a few spots to fit in two lascannon preds.

It feels like when I run pure infantry/tranports I never have enough anti vehicle.

Lascannon all day every day. It is the premier tank buster in 8th edition and you will need them. 2nd place goes to the humble heavy bolter. 4 heavy bolters can really put some hurt on infantry squads these days and they are cheap and a low priority target. Plasma cannons are not doing it for me when a plasma gun is cheaper and more consistent. Multi meltas are not impressing me either compared to a lascannon and the grav Cannon is now just a heavy bolter +1 for a lot more points.

I might look at Tacs with heavy bolters and Devs with lascannons then.

Las cannons are the obvious choice. Plasma are okay but you can probably get plasma somewhere else. Grav is great vs heavy infantry but so is plasma.
I think the heavy bolter competes with the assault cannon razorback and losses, so I'd probably never take them.
I like missile launchers as a middle ground between the Las cannon and the heavy bolter, and have had a lot of success with them.

I might avoid devastators though. They are very fragile.

I love my Lascannons on my Devs, but Gravcannons aren't too bad against most targets. They actually got better against vehicles despite not auto-immobilizing them since they wound on 5's rather than 6's. Missile Launchers are a solid choice now, too, as a TAC option. I'm not impressed with Plasma cannons for the cost, and Heavy Bolters are, well Heavy Bolters, and probably better in a Tactical or Scout squad. Multimeltas are kind of an oddball weapon now, as they are super expensive and short-ranged, but within 12" their average damage output is better than a Lascannon. 4 of them in a Drop Pod can kill most vehicles and many Monsters in one turn, but that's not very points efficient at all.

Due to the change in 8th, everyone has "split fire". So mixing weapons is not a problem. However, due to the -1 penalty for all heavy weapons, you don't wish your Devastors (and any unit carrying Heavy Weapons) to move that many times through a battle. Hence, the consistence of range is more important factor in 8th.

In such a sense, I do think MM / Grav Cannon are better goes with Tatical Squad as the Squad Heavy Weapons. While Plasma Cannon can pair with Heavy Bolters (36inches range), and Lascannons / Missile Launchers can also be packed in one unit. I Personally like the Las / Missile Launchers in Devastors. The range made them staying safe

Honestly, im liking my 2 grav 2 MM drop pod devs with a ammo baby.

ammo baby used on ether or depending on target priority.

i like keeping the Sergent cheap so no combi weapons.

classic 4 lascannons are fine too.

but i also dont drop in alone.

i think they could be fine out of an ass back though you lose out on first turn shooting.

Edit: At Neophyte at least its not 7th snap fire i think a -1 to hit is honestly not bad at all besides against stacking mods like fliers. and gravs have weight of fire to off set the -1.

Lascannons on the Devs, Mmissile Launchers as second choice. I think Heavy Bolters are still a bit lacklustre. A frag missile against a t3 squad is about the same as a Heavy Bolter, but then you have the Krak option (with D6 damage) against hard targets.

Martel732 wrote:
I might avoid devastators though. They are very fragile.

Compared to what? Against what? Playing against Devs in cover I usually find them pretty durable.

Breng77 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I might avoid devastators though. They are very fragile.

Compared to what? Against what? Playing against Devs in cover I usually find them pretty durable.

Yeah, always get 8 -10 in the squad though. I occasionally see min devastator squads on the table and those are the first things to go.

I try to make them target priority, but if there are a few of them even with just 1 or 2 extra models it takes a lot of firepower to really put a meaningful dent in them. Where as a single dev squad can cripple larger targets with ease.

Martel732 wrote:
I might avoid devastators though. They are very fragile.

Not really, buy a few ablative wounds and they will last quite a while. Compared to tanks like a Predator, they are more vulnerable to basic weapons fire but less so to heavy weapons. A bolter is more likely to take wounds off a Devastator squad than a Predator but a Lascannon hit will only ever kill one Devastator. A good damage roll from a Lascannon can wipe off half a Predator's wounds.

I have been experimenting with mixed Devastator squads in small games to try and get a feel for the heavy weapons and so far they seem surprisingly balanced. The Lascannon excels at damaging tough targets but is expensive and wasted against infantry. Missile Launchers are good all-rounders. They are decent against vehicles (the gap between them and Lascannons is still present but is smaller than in 7th edition) and can frag hordes satisfyingly.

Heavy bolters seem a bit underwhelming. I prefer Assault Cannons on vehicles and massed bolters for horde control. Plasma Cannons are fantastic IF you have some means of rerolling 1s. With D3 shots and 2 wounds, the overcharged setting is almost as good at tank-busting as Lascannons and is not shabby at horde control either since it wounds most infantry on a 2+. It also murders MEQs, Battlesuits, Wraithguard etc. If you don't have a reroll character nearby then 1 Plasma Cannon is still a good choice and you can use the Sergeant's Signum to keep it safe when overcharging.

I don't have any Grav so I cannot comment.

Your exact mix will probably depend on what else you have in your army. If you are running bolters and flamers on your infantry then lascannons are an obvious choice. If you have plenty of melta then plasma or MLs are great. I really like Plasma Cannons and give the wider availability of HQs in 8th edition, I don't think it is a waste to run a cheap Captain to boost their firepower.

Okay. I'm convinced. I'll have to try this out.

 Karhedron wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I might avoid devastators though. They are very fragile.

Not really, buy a few ablative wounds and they will last quite a while. Compared to tanks like a Predator, they are more vulnerable to basic weapons fire but less so to heavy weapons. A bolter is more likely to take wounds off a Devastator squad than a Predator but a Lascannon hit will only ever kill one Devastator. A good damage roll from a Lascannon can wipe off half a Predator's wounds.

I have been experimenting with mixed Devastator squads in small games to try and get a feel for the heavy weapons and so far they seem surprisingly balanced. The Lascannon excels at damaging tough targets but is expensive and wasted against infantry. Missile Launchers are good all-rounders. They are decent against vehicles (the gap between them and Lascannons is still present but is smaller than in 7th edition) and can frag hordes satisfyingly.

Heavy bolters seem a bit underwhelming. I prefer Assault Cannons on vehicles and massed bolters for horde control. Plasma Cannons are fantastic IF you have some means of rerolling 1s. With D3 shots and 2 wounds, the overcharged setting is almost as good at tank-busting as Lascannons and is not shabby at horde control either since it wounds most infantry on a 2+. It also murders MEQs, Battlesuits, Wraithguard etc. If you don't have a reroll character nearby then 1 Plasma Cannon is still a good choice and you can use the Sergeant's Signum to keep it safe when overcharging.

I don't have any Grav so I cannot comment.

Your exact mix will probably depend on what else you have in your army. If you are running bolters and flamers on your infantry then lascannons are an obvious choice. If you have plenty of melta then plasma or MLs are great. I really like Plasma Cannons and give the wider availability of HQs in 8th edition, I don't think it is a waste to run a cheap Captain to boost their firepower.

It is also of note that if they are in cover getting a 2+ save, they gain even more durability. The predator with 4 lascannons costs 202 points, and likely will never really get cover, For 209 points you can get 8 Devs with the cherub and 4 lascannons.

So you have 11 T7 3+ wounds on the pred vs 8 T4 2+ save wounds on the Devs, which can never lose more than 1 wound per hit. Against single damage weapons with no AP devastators in cover are similarly durable against S4 (96 hits to kill vs 99 for the pred), the Pred is better against S5 and 6, and worse against 7+, but most of that is due to the extra 3 wounds. If you look at doing 9 wounds (dropping the pred to its lowest level) it is worse across the board.

Against multiple damage weapons, it isn't even close. The devs are also better in close combat (though neither is good)




At full strength the devs have better damage out put. Both have 4 shots, but the devs get 1 turn of 5 shots, and hit on a 2+ with one lascannon (which is tow shots during the cherub turn) every turn. So at full strength the devs hit 2.833 times vs the Pred at 2.67, they will also get 1 turn of 3.67 hits. Re-rolls effect both similarly, though re-roll 1s will be better for devs due to the signum.

It takes 4 wounds for the devs to lose any shooting ability (losing the sarge) which drops it to being equal to the pred at full strength, It takes almost the same amount of hits at S 4,7,8,9 to do this as it does to drop the pred to half wounds which reduces its effectiveness, if we look at the devs losing 5 models (the first lascannon) it is very close to the pred being at half strength at which point both squads are equal in output.

One plus point for the Predator is that if you need to reposition, it can move twice as fast as the Devastators. I do agree though that on balance, I think the Devastators come out ahead. Certainly in my limited experience of 8th thus far, they have outlived my tanks.

 Karhedron wrote:
One plus point for the Predator is that if you need to reposition, it can move twice as fast as the Devastators. I do agree though that on balance, I think the Devastators come out ahead. Certainly in my limited experience of 8th thus far, they have outlived my tanks.

Very true, on a table with limited sight lines a pred has the advantage because it can reposition better, but doing that too often really hurts the damage out put for the pred.

Breng77 wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
One plus point for the Predator is that if you need to reposition, it can move twice as fast as the Devastators. I do agree though that on balance, I think the Devastators come out ahead. Certainly in my limited experience of 8th thus far, they have outlived my tanks.

Very true, on a table with limited sight lines a pred has the advantage because it can reposition better, but doing that too often really hurts the damage out put for the pred.

It hurts for any Heavy weapon to move unless the platform has some rule to compensate for this (e.g. POTMS). If you accept that you will have the take the -1 to hit in order to get LOS to your next target(s), a higher move makes it more likely that you can reach your new firing position in a single move and then settle down to static firing again.

Grav suffers the least from moving and shooting because of the rate of fire, and i think is the best heavy weapon for tac squads. I've also toyed with the idea of 4 grav in a rhino or razorback to jump out and blow a unit away as a kind of counter fire unit. 16 shots with a captain nearby for rerolls of 1 to hit is still very strong and is pretty likely to wipe out a unit.