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Made in us
Dakka Veteran






For those of you who are familiar with the game Star Fleet Battles, you probably know there is a long running miniatures line made to use in the game. A couple of years ago, a second, larger and more detailed miniatures line was released to go with a spin off of the original game (named A Call to Arms Star Fleet). Both lines are still in production as metal miniatures, but ADB (the manufacturer) just recently released a number of new ships on Shapeways. The "start up" costs for ADB are evidently much lower, which has allowed them to release miniatures for ships they weren't sure would sell enough in traditional metal castings to be economically viable.

In any case, they have released around 50 new ships, in both the older, small scale and the newer larger scale in their shop on Shapeways. I've gotten my first batch of these new ships and was very impressed with the quality of the 3D printings. I got mine in the more expensive Frosted Ultra Detail material, but they are available in the full line of materiel available through Shapeways from the least expensive White Strong & Flexible to the most expensive Black Hi-Def.

I hope to get at least some of these painted up this weekend, and if so I'll post pics.

If you are a fan of the old Star Trek series, or a player of any of the Star Fleet Universe games, you might want to take a look at these new offerings. They should make great gaming pieces or collectables.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/07/13 16:34:46


 
   
Made in us
Stoic Super Dimensional Captain






Thanks for the heads up. I'm surprised so few Fed designs made it over although I guess they're probably the most popular and they don't want to undercut their metal sales.


 
   
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Dakka Veteran






 warboss wrote:
Thanks for the heads up. I'm surprised so few Fed designs made it over although I guess they're probably the most popular and they don't want to undercut their metal sales.

I think they are trying to avoid competing against their own metal miniatures by not offering the same ones. I think the only reason the Fed Heavy Cruiser (IE. Enterprise) and the Klingon D7 made it was they felt they had to include a couple of the most iconic Star Trek ships to be taken seriously.

On the other hand, they supposedly have a lot of other stuff already rendered and ready to add to the store so we may see more Fed designs, although I bet most of them will be rarer or specialty variants.
   
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[DCM]
Gun Mage





Washington State

No Kizinti? No Lyran? No ISC? No Andromidan? Ah, they are just in metal, not plastic. Interestingly enough, all the metal models have a warning about lead... I thought you couldn't make lead models anymore?

Wasn't the Seltorian's a "simulated" race? Like the Federation created the Seltorian's as a fictional adversary for wargames and simulations? Or did they "replace" the ISC?

Stupid ISC and their PPD's. Loved doing the ESG Overrun with Lyran ships. Hated trying to figure out the Klingon fire arcs. They sucked. LOL

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
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 Tamwulf wrote:
No Kizinti? No Lyran? No ISC? No Andromidan? Ah, they are just in metal, not plastic. Interestingly enough, all the metal models have a warning about lead... I thought you couldn't make lead models anymore?

On the Facebook page, ADB was saying they have a bunch of digital renders for Lyran ships ready to go. They will probably be in the next wave. As far as Kzinti and ISC in the Shapeways store, I would expect as long as they sales are good enough, they will continue adding new ships and new empires. I'm hoping for a Kzinti Space Control Ship (a combination battleship, carrier, and patrol boat tender).

Wasn't the Seltorian's a "simulated" race? Like the Federation created the Seltorian's as a fictional adversary for wargames and simulations? Or did they "replace" the ISC?

No, the Seltornians were the ex-slave race of the Tholians. They overthrew the Tholians in their home galaxy and followed them here to finish them off. In addition to phasers and disrupters, they have a weapon for destroying Tholian web. The Frax (another empire in the Second Wave) are a simulator race, though.

Stupid ISC and their PPD's. Loved doing the ESG Overrun with Lyran ships. Hated trying to figure out the Klingon fire arcs. They sucked. LOL

Never had that much trouble with ISC, but I don't think I ever faced an opponent who really knew how to get the best out of them. Lyrans ESG are always fun. Run into him with one ESG, then activate a second one as you overfly and drag that one over him, too. Everyone hates the Klingons, except the owner of ADB, which is why they are so good in the game!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/14 15:52:11


 
   
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Riverside, CA USA

That's interesting, looks like ADB finally gave up on fighting all the shapeways sellers and finally just joined in. $16 for a FUD ship isn't terrible when you only need a few, but it's not great either.

I just wish you could rescale the prints yourself, I never liked the starline 2400 scale, a 2" to 3" ship on a 1.25" hex map gets really sticky as you close in, and the larger Mongoose scale is RIDICULOUS for a hex-map game! I've still got my Zocchi plastic federation ships, but it's been 6 or 7 years since they hit the table. A few years ago I tried the microfleet stuff by National Cheese Emporium on shapeways and while they're really too small for a proper miniatures game I actually really love using them on the 1/2" hex maps. Especially when you can get a full fleet for $25. It would be nice if ADB offered their ships in a half-scale, so that a Constitution class Federation CA was about 1" long, small enough to play with, but enough to see some detail. There used to be a lot of those on Shapeways, but they got hit with a C&D by ADB or Paramount (so did the microfleet seller, but he fought against it and won)



~Kalamadea (aka ember)
My image gallery 
   
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Awww... they're sooo cute!


 
   
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Dakka Veteran






 Kalamadea wrote:
That's interesting, looks like ADB finally gave up on fighting all the shapeways sellers and finally just joined in.

As someone who follows the news out of Amarillo fairly regularly, I think it was more a problem fighting with their casting company. ADB has reported a whole series of bad digital sculpts, bad masters, bad molds, and other problems with the actual production process. For example, they have been working on getting a metal version of the Romulan Vulture Dreadnought for the last two years but just had one problem after another. Now, it was part of the first wave of Shapeway's offerings and the product is beautiful.

I never liked the starline 2400 scale, a 2" to 3" ship on a 1.25" hex map gets really sticky as you close in, and the larger Mongoose scale is RIDICULOUS for a hex-map game!

The larger Mongoose ships were originally intended for the hex-less A Call to Arms Star Fleet game. I use them for both that game and the hex based Federation Commander game, although I use a mat with 2 inch hexes for that game, rather than the 1.25" mega-hex mat from ADB.

few years ago I tried the microfleet stuff by National Cheese Emporium on shapeways and while they're really too small for a proper miniatures game I actually really love using them on the 1/2" hex maps. Especially when you can get a full fleet for $25. It would be nice if ADB offered their ships in a half-scale, so that a Constitution class Federation CA was about 1" long, small enough to play with, but enough to see some detail.

I'm actually surprised that ADB has keep two lines of competing miniatures in production. I can't see them adding a third.

I actually prefer the larger Mongoose size ships, but I'm as much interested in painting and converting the miniatures as I am in playing the game. I agree that smaller ships make more sense as game pieces in a hex based game.
   
Made in us
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Riverside, CA USA

I'm aware that Mongoose made the new ships for the hexless AF:ACTA rules, doesn't change the fact that they are just too big. I had the same issue with B5:ACTA (which is still probably my favorite space combat game), the B5 Wars scale ships Mongoose used were too big and too expensive, especially when the smaller B5 Fleet Scale was still readily available online. I've also had the same issue with BFG, the larger ships become a problem when everything gets too close together and the ship models are much longer or wider than their bases

I don't intend for ADB to actually cast the half-scale minis and carry them as a complete line, I'm also surprised they tried to keep 2 scales of minis in stock, but if they're going as digital print-on-demand anyways then it would be nice if they offered it, I'd certainly be all over it and I know at least one other guy that was buying Trek ships in that scale off Shapeways already to use in FedCom. And sure, a hex is a hex whether it's 1/2" or 4", but the actual table size it takes up when you go to 2" hexes is significant. Oddly enough I'm actually very fond of the cardboard hex maps that came in the FedCom boxes since you can just slide the tiles around as needed and still play on a kitchen table

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/18 18:37:46


~Kalamadea (aka ember)
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 Kalamadea wrote:
I'm aware that Mongoose made the new ships for the hexless AF:ACTA rules, doesn't change the fact that they are just too big.

I see it as a trade off. Aesthetically I like the larger size. They are more impressive on the table top and allow for more details to be included in the sculpt. Logistically, they do require larger gaming areas to play the same battle as chits or smaller miniatures, though. In any case, at this point I'm well and truly committed to the larger size, though, as I think my investment has exceeded $1000US with the latest purchase from Shapeways so I'm not changing scales again!

I don't intend for ADB to actually cast the half-scale minis and carry them as a complete line, I'm also surprised they tried to keep 2 scales of minis in stock, but if they're going as digital print-on-demand anyways then it would be nice if they offered it, I'd certainly be all over it and I know at least one other guy that was buying Trek ships in that scale off Shapeways already to use in FedCom. And sure, a hex is a hex whether it's 1/2" or 4", but the actual table size it takes up when you go to 2" hexes is significant.

I'm no expert on digital sculpting and 3D printing, but I think it would take more work than just dialing the size down. I know I got into a conversation with ADB about offering things like cargo ships and bases in a larger scale to use with the SL2500. The current ones are marketed as "generic" scale, but they are actually the old SL2400 scale. I thought it would be a trivial effort to offer the miniatures already available through Shapeways in a larger size but ADB claimed it was more work than that and they didn't think it was worthwhile for the small number of people (like me!) who wanted larger (and more expensive) freighters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/19 15:19:31


 
   
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Combat Jumping Tiger Soldier




North Wales

I just checked out the National Cheese Emporium ships - they are so cool!

That and managing to find a place that had Smileylich's SSDs (I lost my files years ago) makes me want to try out SFB again.
   
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Shocked Micronized Zentraedi Spy





Yeah, those teeny-tiny ships are cute. If I didn't already have a large collection of the larger size ones, it would be something to consider.

Oh, and

https://web.archive.org/web/20091228191225/http://www.smileylich.com:80/sfb/ssd/ssd01.html
   
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Combat Jumping Tiger Soldier




North Wales

Yeah. That's what I'm talking about.

Nice one, thanks!

I've heard people saying that they're imbalanced, but getting to use the Excelsior in a game would be cool.
   
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ADB just posted on FB that the next batch of ships are going up on Shapeways Aug 1 and will include over 50 ships from Fed, Romulan, Tholian, Hydrans and Lyrans.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/27 18:25:26


 
   
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Gun Mage





Washington State

 Chillreaper wrote:
Yeah. That's what I'm talking about.

Nice one, thanks!

I've heard people saying that they're imbalanced, but getting to use the Excelsior in a game would be cool.


It's been a long time since I played SFB, but wouldn't the Excelsior be an X-Class ship? X- meaning experimental/advanced technology? I remember when the X-ships came out (basically, 1 heavy cruiser for each race) and they were INSANE. Power was never an issue. You could move fast, power all your weapons, overload your heavies, and still have enough left over to reinforce your shields/systems. IIRC, they had a new class of Phasers (X-Phasers? Phaser-X?) that was basically a Phaser-I that could be overloaded and do as much damage as a Phaser-IV. Actually, I think they just added an 'X' to all the weapons- Disrupter-X, Photon-X, Drone-X, Plasma-X, etc. etc. Stupid maneuverable ships- heavy cruisers that had awesome turn radius, like frigate/destroyer turn radius. They had battlecruiser level shields, and pretty much every system in their fleet. They were expensive, but undercosted when compared to "regular" ships. The only thing that could stand up to them was another X-ship, or the Andromidans. Oh, those Andromidans... "Please! Shoot me more! I need the energy to shoot back at you!!!"

They pretty much broke the game. Never understood why they (Amarillo Design Bureau) released them.

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
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Dakka Veteran






 Tamwulf wrote:

They pretty much broke the game. Never understood why they (Amarillo Design Bureau) released them.

Probably because a vocal fraction of the player base lobbied for them.

The thing is, despite being a fictional scifi game, SFB is really constructed like a historical game. Historical opponents are generally balanced against each other. Ships from the same time period are generally balanced against each other. If you mix x-ships with old designs from 20 years earlier in the timeline, they won't be balanced.

Other than a few one off, x-ship vs. x-ship games just to see what they were all about, my group pretty much ignored the things and spent most of our time playing scenarios out of the "General War".
   
Made in gb
Combat Jumping Tiger Soldier




North Wales

 Tamwulf wrote:
 Chillreaper wrote:
Yeah. That's what I'm talking about.

Nice one, thanks!

I've heard people saying that they're imbalanced, but getting to use the Excelsior in a game would be cool.


It's been a long time since I played SFB, but wouldn't the Excelsior be an X-Class ship? X- meaning experimental/advanced technology? I remember when the X-ships came out (basically, 1 heavy cruiser for each race) and they were INSANE. Power was never an issue. You could move fast, power all your weapons, overload your heavies, and still have enough left over to reinforce your shields/systems. IIRC, they had a new class of Phasers (X-Phasers? Phaser-X?) that was basically a Phaser-I that could be overloaded and do as much damage as a Phaser-IV. Actually, I think they just added an 'X' to all the weapons- Disrupter-X, Photon-X, Drone-X, Plasma-X, etc. etc. Stupid maneuverable ships- heavy cruisers that had awesome turn radius, like frigate/destroyer turn radius. They had battlecruiser level shields, and pretty much every system in their fleet. They were expensive, but undercosted when compared to "regular" ships. The only thing that could stand up to them was another X-ship, or the Andromidans. Oh, those Andromidans... "Please! Shoot me more! I need the energy to shoot back at you!!!"

They pretty much broke the game. Never understood why they (Amarillo Design Bureau) released them.



Smileylich didn't just do X-Ships, he had a whole range of different levels of X technology depending on the time setting.

0x was The Original Series.
1x was the first four films.
2x for the dumb movie with God in it onwards.
3x TNG.
4x for the Borg movie onwards.

The Excelsior was done as a 2x ship, so sticking it in a game against 0x stuff would be so stupid, even if the points cost was more than ten 0x Constitution class ships. The tech levels need to match up for it to work and the game plays differently, but I really liked it; sticking to 0x keeps the original game's style of play.
   
Made in us
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Nice to see they keep finding ways of staying alive.

Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.


Harry Dresden wrote:
...but they were Donuts of Darkness...
 
   
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Gun Mage





Washington State

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Nice to see they keep finding ways of staying alive.


There is a huge difference between "staying alive" and "producing a game". From my perspective, I didn't even know that SFB was still being made or that it was even being played. And that's saying something, because I consider myself pretty tapped in to the gaming world. I certainly haven't seen it on the shelf of a FLGS in... well, 2007 I believe I was in a store in Oklahoma City and they had a couple old white metal boxes and a couple supplements collecting dust in the far corner of the store, in a box behind the Neapolitic Wars stuff. Doing an internet search found me the Amarillo Design Bureau, with a website that looks like it was imported over from word press as a blog or something. Everything seems to be updated on a fairly frequent bases, and they do have a webstore to purchase products. I have a feeling those products are all print on demand- the "warehouse" is someone's garage. All the material is in a digital format, which means someone probably has a server running in their house, and a couple 3-D printers for the shapeways store.

My impression: There are some very passionate gamers trying to give it a go and want to bring this classic game back to the masses. I don't think it will do too well with the less then 30 crowd though. Way, way too many rules, very, very complex, and it takes a long, long time to play a game. No one wants to use chits on a hex map for anything anymore (just ask Catalyst games about Battletech...). Having the shapeways models is great! I fear the initial barrier is a bit high and intimidating to a new player. Just look at an SSD with all the boxes, charts, and info crammed onto one 8 1/2 x 11" sheet. Show that to an 16 year old kid, and he/she would probably run screaming back to M:TG. SFB takes WORK to play, and it's not "fun" work. The rules are like reading a technical manual (indeed, the rules prepared me very well for the US Air Force Technical Order system). The SSD is like a quiz sheet from my nightmares from science classes. Instead of combo's and synergy from other game effects, you have to plan out your entire turn, hoping and betting on what your opponent will do. It's also a very much "I go, you go" game, where one player may not be very engaged in the game for long periods of time, and instead be doing nothing but ticking off boxes on the SSD. While this might seem to be a drawback to some, other players relish this kind of game play.

These guys just need to get the game out there. Social media conventions, etc. etc. They have some events at Gencon this year, so if you have the time, stop by and try the game out! It's a great game (assuming it hasn't changed too much since the early 90's when I last played it) if you are into the single ship dueling thing (kinda like Battletech- 1v1). Their latest newsletter is free and downloadable. Check 'em out!

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
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Fresh-Faced New User




Very interested to see pics of your shapeways/SFB printed minis - any chance to share pics of how they look pre-paint though?

For shapeways, I assume the black hi-def material is the best quality print?
   
Made in us
Tail Gunner





If you are looking for detail on Shapeways, Frosted will produce the best quality with Frosted Extreme detail being the pinnacle of Shapeway's print quality. BHDA (black hi-def) has the best durability in a material that can almost match but doesn't quite reach the level of FUD and FXD. It used to be that FUD/FXD costs a fair bit more than BHDA, due to specialised handling fees, but at some point last month Shapeways went and slashed the price of frosted, which kind of undercuts BHDA. Here is a side by side of prints that have been primed black that was posted by Mel of Mel's miniatures some months back to help illustrate the gradations in print quality:
Spoiler:


So, since ADB is getting in on Shapeways does anyone think that we should expect to see ADB start going after other sellers in the 1:3125 and 1:3788 space again on the platform?

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/07/31 09:55:13


 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User




Thank you for the example of the different printing materials - I went ahead and ordered a couple of the ADB ships in the larger scale last night - excited to see how they turn out.

 Collinsas wrote:


So, since ADB is getting in on Shapeways does anyone think that we should expect to see ADB start going after other sellers in the 1:3125 and 1:3788 space again on the platform?


Possibly, but are there that many people doing direct rips of ADB ships (like their unique classes/races/etc)? I found some - in fact I tried to get a Federation "Hermes Class Scout" printed from a non ADB Shapeways member but they (Shapeways) already responded that they are unable to manufacture it for me. Not sure why that is so, if there are model issues or something else? If it is modeling issues then maybe these other non ADB sources are not much of a threat to them anyway (if their models fail then why bother with going after them)?

Anyway thanks again for pointing out the new minis - I still have quite a lot of the original SFB minis as well as the Zocchi plastics from the 80s - quite a few fond memories tied to them - played a ton of SFB at the local game store back in the day.....
   
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Dakka Veteran






 Tamwulf wrote:
 ChargerIIC wrote:
Nice to see they keep finding ways of staying alive.


There is a huge difference between "staying alive" and "producing a game".

While ADB may be just a blip compared to the current big gaming companies like GW or Fantasy Flight, they have managed to stay in business for decades and are still generating enough revenue to keep several people employed full time. I consider that quite an accomplishment.


I have a feeling those products are all print on demand- the "warehouse" is someone's garage. All the material is in a digital format, which means someone probably has a server running in their house, and a couple 3-D printers for the shapeways store.

They have an actual office space, but yeah they print all their stuff on demand. I think the only exception is the boxes and color retail covers for the stuff they do still offer to hobby/game shops.

My impression: There are some very passionate gamers trying to give it a go and want to bring this classic game back to the masses. I don't think it will do too well with the less then 30 crowd though. Way, way too many rules, very, very complex, and it takes a long, long time to play a game.

I agree, the original SFB game (the one that fills a 6" three-ring binder) is way too complex for most of todays gamers. Most of those players are probably old school gamers who started playing it back in the 70s or 80s (erm... like me). I think today most of their marketing is focused on their simpler spin-off games. Federation Commander was the first, and is a simplified version of the original SFB game rules. There is also licensed SFU games based on the Majestic12 game Starmada and the Mongoose Game A Call to Arms. Federation Commander is a hex map game, but both Starmada and ACTA games are hexless.

Having the shapeways models is great! I fear the initial barrier is a bit high and intimidating to a new player.

They are still selling their original metal miniatures, so that's where new players really need to start. So far, the Shapeways store is mainly intended to release miniatures they don't expect to sell enough of to be profitable in metal (scouts, destroyer leaders, patrol boats, battleships, etc.) so its more for advanced players or completest who want to be able to accurately model any ship or variant on the table.. I think so far the only real duplicates of existing metal miniatures in the Shapeways store might be the Seltorian ships, and even they were not available in the larger scale so that's still new.

I think most people expect 3D printing to eventually supplant traditional metal or resin casting, but yeah the prices at least still need to come down more. Still, its already a viable alternative for small run miniatures like these that just wouldn't get made otherwise.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
petrov27 wrote:
Very interested to see pics of your shapeways/SFB printed minis - any chance to share pics of how they look pre-paint though?

I was thinking about posting some, but the FUD material is sort of translucent, and its hard to see the surface details unless the light it just right. I'll see what I can do tonight when I get home.

FWIW, I think the detail is at least as good as the existing metal miniatures, and without the sort of mold flaws you often see in metal miniatures (mold lines, cavities, "blurred" surface detail, etc,). Plus the ships are all one piece "printings". Many of the metal ships are multi part and some of them are tricky to assemble due to small mating surfaces (Klingon and Romulan "wings", Federation sponsons, etc.)

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2017/07/31 16:30:11


 
   
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I figure they're probably in a Palladium-esque zombie business predicament where they don't want to risk pissing off the tiny core fanbase that has kept them shambling along in business for 25+ years since they were a notable company in the industry to chase after newer fans/fresh money that may never materialize. I was always a bigger fan of the FASA ruleset (which is completely dead with no hope of resurrection.. which begs the question why I do fan supplements for it!) but I do hope for some sort of older school new game to come out but with some more modern looking ships and modern playing rule than offered by ADB (including the half baked Federation Commander ruleset). I never tried the Mongoose game though although I was a veteran of B5 Fleet Action, Wars, and to a lesser extent ACTA. I do have to admit though that their box art is pretty nice though now for Federation Commander at least.


 
   
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 warboss wrote:
I do hope for some sort of older school new game to come out but with some more modern looking ships and modern playing rule than offered by ADB (including the half baked Federation Commander ruleset).

For new games, I think we are stuck with Star Trek: Attack Wing for the foreseeable future. I can't see CBS/Paramount issuing a new license for another miniatures game (even if the terms of the ST:AW license allows it)

The only reason ADB is still publishing Star Trek based games is because they negotiated their license back after TOS was cancelled, but before any of the movies were released. Presumable CBS or Desilu didn't think it was worth much back then so Task Force was able to get an indefinite deal at a price a small company could actually afford, which ADB was able to inherit.
   
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Stoic Super Dimensional Captain






Yeah, I know but I keep hoping that they'll sell the license to someone else who will make newer looking ships in the TOS theme like the Archer and Sentinel classes (or pretty much any TOS ship I have in my fan supplement). The asthetics for TOS have improved alot of the last 15 years and I don't feel that SFB has kept up. They obviously have room to evolve designs as they've done so in the past but they all IMO seem too rigidly stuck in the the 1970's kitbash theme. STAW doesn't scratch that itch for me for a couple of reason, two of the obvious being the (lack of) quality in the minis and the likely contractual strict adherence to existing official designs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/31 23:01:07



 
   
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 warboss wrote:
Yeah, I know but I keep hoping that they'll sell the license to someone else who will make newer looking ships in the TOS theme like the Archer and Sentinel classes (or pretty much any TOS ship I have in my fan supplement).

I guess its a matter of taste. I know a lot of people (including myself) dislike newer ship designs which supposedly coexist with or even predate the TOS Enterprise exactly because they don't match the aesthetics of the TOS ships. They look good as modern scifi designs, but they don't look like they are several engineering generations older than the TOS Enterprise. I think ADB has generally stayed true to the aesthetics of the old TV show in their expansions of the existing fleets and new empires and I'm quite happy with them. YMMV, obviously.

STAW doesn't scratch that itch for me for a couple of reason, two of the obvious being the (lack of) quality in the minis and the likely contractual strict adherence to existing official designs.

No argument there. The quality of the miniatures is not acceptable to me, even if I liked pre-painted miniatures and from what I hear I don't care for the game system.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/01 14:31:36


 
   
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 mdauben wrote:
 warboss wrote:
Yeah, I know but I keep hoping that they'll sell the license to someone else who will make newer looking ships in the TOS theme like the Archer and Sentinel classes (or pretty much any TOS ship I have in my fan supplement).

I guess its a matter of taste. I know a lot of people (including myself) dislike newer ship designs which supposedly coexist with or even predate the TOS Enterprise exactly because they don't match the aesthetics of the TOS ships. They look good as modern scifi designs, but they don't look like they are several engineering generations older than the TOS Enterprise. I think ADB has generally stayed true to the aesthetics of the old TV show in their expansions of the existing fleets and new empires and I'm quite happy with them. YMMV, obviously.


Out of curiosity, what is your opinion of the two ships below that I mentioned? I don't know if you're familiar with them so will post pics.
Spoiler:




Do you feel they don't stay true (at their core) to AOS asthetics? To me they evolve them but are still quintessentially TOS and not just simple kitbashes or resizes like so many SFB ships imo.





 
   
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 warboss wrote:
Out of curiosity, what is your opinion of the two ships below that I mentioned? I don't know if you're familiar with them so will post pics.

Ah! Those I actually like and agree they do fit in the TOS aesthetic. If fact, they are really good job of looking like they belong in the TOS universe.

When I replied, I was thinking of this USS Archer:

Spoiler:


This one IMO does not fit into the TOS style and while its might look cool as a TNG or later design, it does not look like it belongs to the same fleet as the TOS Enterprise.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Isn't Star Trek Renegades well after TNG? I seem to recall the Fan Film mentioning voyager.

Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.


Harry Dresden wrote:
...but they were Donuts of Darkness...
 
   
 
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