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Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

..what a time to be alive eh ....

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/monkey-selfie-macaque-copyright-court-david-slater?CMP=share_btn_tw




Monkey selfie photographer says he's broke: 'I'm thinking of dog walking'
David Slater has been fighting for years over who has the copyright to photos taken by monkeys using his camera, and says he’s struggling as a result



A US appeals court has debated whether or not a monkey can own the copyright to a selfie, while the photographer whose camera captured the famous image watched a livestream of the proceedings from his home in the UK.

David Slater could not afford the air fare to San Francisco to attend the hearing on Wednesday. Nor can he afford to replace his broken camera equipment, or pay the attorney who has been defending him since the crested black macaque sued him in 2015, and is exploring other ways to earn an income.

The story of the monkey selfie began in 2011, when Slater traveled to Sulawesi, Indonesia, and spent several days following and photographing a troop of macaques. Slater has long maintained that the selfies were the result of his ingenuity in coaxing the monkeys into pressing the shutter while looking into the lens, after he struggled to get them to keep their eyes open for a wide-angle close-up.

“It wasn’t serendipitous monkey behavior,” he said. “It required a lot of knowledge on my behalf, a lot of perseverance, sweat and anguish, and all that stuff.”

The photographs became popular, and Slater said that he earned a few thousand pounds – enough to cover the cost of the trip to Indonesia. But the images became the subject of a complicated legal dispute in 2014, when Slater asked the blog Techdirt and Wikipedia to stop using them without permission.

The websites refused, with Wikipedia claiming that the photograph was uncopyrightable because the monkey was the actual creator of the image. The US Copyright Office subsequently ruled that animals cannot own copyrights.

“Every photographer dreams of a photograph like this,” Slater said of the image of a primate grinning toothily into the lens. “If everybody gave me a pound for every time they used [the photograph], I’d probably have £40m in my pocket. The proceeds from these photographs should have me comfortable now, and I’m not.”

Making a living as a freelancer is tough for any photographer, but for Slater, economic stability was once tantalizingly within reach.

Instead, he is struggling to get by. “I’m trying to become a tennis coach,” Slater said by phone on Wednesday from his home in Chepstow, Wales. “I’m even thinking about doing dog walking. I don’t make enough money to pay income tax.”

Slater has been embroiled in years of arcane legal wrangling over the nature of authorship, and said that he is “seriously on the verge of packing it all in”.

In 2015, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (Peta) filed a suit against Slater on behalf of the macaque, which it identified as a six-year-old male named Naruto, claiming that the animal was the rightful owner of the copyright. A judge ruled against Peta in 2016, saying that animals were not covered by the Copyright Act. Peta appealed to the ninth circuit court of appeals, which heard oral arguments on Wednesday.

Among the points of contention were whether Peta has a close enough relationship to Naruto to represent it in court, the value of providing written notice of a copyright claim to a community of macaques, and whether Naruto is actually harmed by not being recognized as a copyright-holder.

“There is no way to acquire or hold money. There is no loss as to reputation. There is not even any allegation that the copyright could have somehow benefited Naruto,” said Judge N Randy Smith. “What financial benefits apply to him? There’s nothing.”

At one point, Judge Carlos Bea considered the question of how copyright passes to an author’s heirs.

“In the world of Naruto, is there legitimacy and illegitimacy?” Bea asked. “Are Naruto’s offspring ‘children’, as defined by the statute?”

For Slater, it was a painfully ironic line of questioning in light of his concerns for his own seven-year-old daughter and his continuing belief that the copyright is his. “I can’t afford to own a car. There’s no camera equipment for her to inherit if I die tomorrow,” he said. “She should inherit this [copyright], but it’s worthless.”

The lawyer for Slater’s publisher, which is also a defendant, also raised the question of whether Peta has even identified the right monkey – something that Slater disputes.

“I know for a fact that [the monkey in the photograph] is a female and it’s the wrong age,” he said. “I’m bewildered at the American court system. Surely it matters that the right monkey is suing me.”

The one consolation for Slater is that he believes that his photograph has helped to save the crested black macaque from extinction.

“These animals were on the way out and because of one photograph, it’s hopefully going to create enough ecotourism to make the locals realize that there’s a good reason to keep these monkeys alive,” Slater said. “The picture hopefully contributed to saving the species. That was the original intention all along.”






“I’m bewildered at the American court system. Surely it matters that the right monkey is suing me.”





serendipitous monkey behavior,”


awesome unused band name of the week !


The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
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Made in us
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The Great State of Texas

Oh that face is awesome. Thats for real? This monkey deserves its own car and motorboat and rock band.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/13 18:51:41


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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Made in us
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Catskills in NYS

Funny story and all, but I feel sorry for the guy. feth Peta, honestly, what in the hell is this doing to promote animal welfare?

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





Peta are like cancer.

I would call them crap but you can actually flush crap...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dude should just open a crowdfunder, or patreon or somesuch...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/17 08:29:51


 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Has anyone actually asked the Macque?

Of course not! IT'S A MACAQUE.

   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Houston, TX

So, why isn't the court tossing this for lack of standing? Animals cannot hold property and are not "persons" under US law. PETA is not asserting an actionable claim and has no standing as they cannot assert any harm or standing as representative of a group suffering harm.

The photographer would clearly own the rights, just like if he had set up a motion triggered camera.

I would be furious if I was the judge and someone was trying to file such frivolous claims.

-James
 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Perhaps the Judge is just letting PETA spend, spend, spend and spend - then rule against and award costs?

Strikes me as a more encouraging way to stop such nonsense in the future?

   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

Just award him all costs.
Plus compo, owed royalties and the whole lot.

Peta have ernough rich donors to pay surely...
If not they can always launch another begathon.

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
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FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Are you sure that isn't a Noel Fielding character?

   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

https://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2017/08/monkey-selfie-animal-rights-brouhaha-devolves-into-a-settlement/



t appears that another animal will have to take over the fight being waged by Naruto, an Indonesian macaque monkey who is the named plaintiff in a lawsuit weighing whether animals have a right to own property. In this instance, it's about whether animals can own US copyrights.

Naruto, via his self-appointed lawyers from the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, is in the process of dropping his lawsuit over the now infamous monkey selfies. That's according to a Friday legal filing with the San Francisco-based 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals, which is being asked to hold off on issuing a ruling that everybody believes is going to go against Naruto.

About every conceivable joke has been made about this Planet of the Apes-styled litigation that we've been following for two years now. A lower court judge had already ruled against Naruto, stating that monkeys cannot own US copyrights even if they snapped the picture (which actually happened in this case).

Naruto, whose appeal is pending, snatched the camera from a British photographer in 2011 and in the process took a few pictures of himself on the Tangkoko reserve on the Indonesian island of Sulawesi. The photographer, David Slater, published the photos in a book, Wildlife Personalities. Naruto and PETA sued him and the book's online publishing platform, Blurb, for copyright infringement. (Slater's ownership of the selfies are also in doubt because he didn't take them. Wikipedia has declared them to be a part of the US public domain—an assertion Slater disputes.)

But again, all of this strangeness is about to come to a close. The lawyers for Naruto, Slater, and Blurb told the appeals court (PDF) Friday that an out-of-court settlement was near and that the court should refrain from issuing a ruling.

"The Parties have agreed on a general framework for a settlement subject to the negotiation and resolution of specific terms. Given the current progress of settlement discussions, the Parties are optimistic that they will be able to reach an agreement that will resolve all claims in this matter," according to the filing.

Nobody would say publicly what the deal is, or why this is happening. But there's a quirk in US copyright law that explains some, if not all, the reasoning behind it.

US law allows the "prevailing party" in a copyright infringement action, whether they be the plaintiff or defendant, to seek legal fees and costs of the opposing side—but they're not always guaranteed to be awarded. And during oral arguments in the case last month, a three-judge panel of the court of appeals eviscerated Naruto's arguments.

Two years of litigation amounts to a boatload of legal fees and costs. PETA could be on the hook for hundreds of thousands of dollars—a sum likely to be reduced or forgiven under terms of the upcoming settlement.

All of which means that PETA, which also made some outrageous arguments about online liability in this litigation, probably doesn't want to keep the cash meter running. After all, based on decisions and court statements thus far, nobody really expected Naruto to prevail.

PETA's lawsuit, however, prompted public discourse about the idea of animals owning property. And that's why this lawsuit may have been about nothing more than monkey business all along.



The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in ie
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

I really hope the photographer doesn't settle, and files a counter suit for frivolous litigation. There's no way PETA thought they could win, so should be slapped down hard for wasting everyones time.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

He can't afford not to settle, by the article.
We saw what happens to small businesses when frivolous cases get brought (CHS).

Maybe it'll stop people from self-publishing through companies outside their country. Blurb looks to be US-based, and the photographer is British. So, the US case happened. Might this have gone differently if he'd published though a British publisher, self or otherwise?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/07 12:11:03


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Made in au
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PETA is cancer
   
Made in us
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USA

 44Ronin wrote:
PETA is cancer


They're great people. The best people really.

Best damn aholes around

   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





 LordofHats wrote:
 44Ronin wrote:
PETA is cancer


They're great people. The best people really.

Best damn aholes around


Even manure is a useful substance.

I wouldn't credit PETA to anything useful.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






And in a complete surprise to precisely no-one at all anywhere in the world, even as yet undiscovered tribes in remote regions, PeTA just lost the case

Photographer retains the copyright of the photo - but has agreed to donate 25% of his takings to charities. But one really hopes with the caveat 'except for PeTA'.

And get this...

"Peta's groundbreaking case sparked a massive international discussion about the need to extend fundamental rights to animals for their own sake, not in relation to how they can be exploited by humans," said Peta lawyer Jeff Kerr.


It wasn't groundbreaking. It was moronic. So moronic you lost the case. Indeed your appeal was dismissed.

Man, I love animals me, and I want to see their dwellings protected. But feth PeTa. Feth them with something unpleasant and spikey.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




On a surly Warboar, leading the Waaagh!

I wonder who has the rights to 'Lancelot Link: Secret Chimp'? I would think that should have set the clear precedent.

I just realized that anyone under 40 will probably have no idea what the feth I'm talking about!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/12 13:12:44


 
   
 
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