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How do?

So I'm currently reading Death or Glory, the fourth Ciaphas Cain novel. And he's just run into his first ever Orks.

Something is the description of the Orks got my grey matter ticking, specifically about the shrouded, near mythic origins of the Ork.

Nowadays there's precious little devoted to it, in favour of building them up as a threat in the modern day, and fair enough.

But back in the olden days, many many moons ago was I was young and you were quite possibly but necessarily even younger, Orks had an origin myth. That myth of course was the Brainboyz.

Classically thought of as what we now call Snotlings, who the brainboyz actually were isn't especially important.

What is important is the sheer genius behind the Orkoid species if indeed they were genetic constructs intended to be Warriors.

When you stop and think about it, they're just about perfect for purpose. Their toughness, even on a Yoof, is renowned. Flesh wounds barely irk them, and even horrendous injuries aren't guaranteed to stop them. Chop off a head, and it can be reattached. If you don't kill it, it comes back 'Arder than before, the very experience encouraging further growth.

And that's just the physiology.

Then comes the really interesting stuff. They actually Orkiform planets, thanks to their (seemingly) unique reproductive cycle. Throughout its life, it sheds Spores. Given quite wide ranging conditions, those spores will grow not just into new Boyz, but Grots, Snots, Squigs, Oddboyz....the entire Ork society could, theoretically, take root on a planet if even a single Boy ends up on it. And when you're facing a full Waaaagh!? Well, your planet might as well accept that infestation is going to be all but never-ending, short of exterminatus or other 'well, we still don't actually have the planet anymore' measures. Because when you kill an Ork, it releases lots of spores.

Oddboyz of course are the true strength of Orks. Given enough numbers, Oddboyz start appearing. Runtherdz and Doks first, followed by Mekboyz and Weirdboyz if memory serves. And when they start cropping up, you're back to square one.

So if Orks were indeed genetically engineered, are they not absolutely perfect for the purpose of war? They don't just crave it, but individually and societally thrive upon it. Their command structure is beautiful in its simplicity - Biggest Is Right. There's no question of that within their society, and all the parts play their role because they just do.

What an amazing feat of genetic tinkering, no?

Aye, though it is said by others that the Orks were bred by the old ones to be used as the army of the old ones to fight against their enemies, in that context, it would make sense for them to be made the perfect race for war...

Whether BrainBoy fungus genius
or Old One biologic creation,
they are well designed,
and FUN!

I like the old feel/flavor from the old "Ere We Go",
savage and silly in equal amounts...

yea pretty sure in one of the necron codex books the old ones created the 'Krork' to fight for them...

'Among their creations included the green-skinned, hardy Krork and the technology-mimicking Jokaero. However, it was too late by this point with their intergalactic network being breached with their greatest works and places of power being overrun by the horrors of the warp created by their own creations. Among the most insidious of these entities were the Enslavers, who dominated the minds of the Young Races in order to create portals for more of their kind. The Enslaver Plague became the final blow for the reign of the Old Ones who scattered and forever broke their power'

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Old_Ones

The Krork were created by the Old Ones, but eventually devolved in to the Orks. No idea what the difference is; presumably, Krorks were controllable.

orks are controllable, you just need to be a 10ft warboss with a bad attitude XD

I like it in the 3rd Edition codex where there are multiple theories about where Orks come from, keeps the sense of mystery.

Whether the 'Brainboyz' and the Old Ones were the same thing I don't know, but it would be cool if the Krork/Orks weren't immune to the chaos that accompanied the fall of the Old Ones and that the Brainboyz were actually Orks infected with enslavers (or maybe even Medusae?) which came to dominate Ork society in those dark days.

I love the ork fluff. You got the summary correct. The fungus is a highly aggressive galaxy spanning doomsday weapon that may well win the long game. In the grimdark future, orks are having a great time.

 Kroem wrote:
I like it in the 3rd Edition codex where there are multiple theories about where Orks come from, keeps the sense of mystery.

Whether the 'Brainboyz' and the Old Ones were the same thing I don't know, but it would be cool if the Krork/Orks weren't immune to the chaos that accompanied the fall of the Old Ones and that the Brainboyz were actually Orks infected with enslavers (or maybe even Medusae?) which came to dominate Ork society in those dark days.

Ooh neat I like the way you think.

I thought it was pretty clear from the origins of the Necrons and Eldar that the Orks were made as a cannon fodder race by the Old Ones to fight the C'tan assisted Necrontyr. Orks are dumb enough to consider the Old Ones to be "Brain Boyz", given that they must have been sufficiently Orky to make the Orks, and they were certainly brainy.

The Brainboyz creating the Orks then dying away because the fungus they depended on went extinct reminds me a little of Niven's Slavers and Tnuctipun. Not a lot, but there's a hint of it.

Back in the days of Waaaagh the Orks, 'Ere we go and Freebooterz, AKA Rogue Trader, the Orks were indeed designed by the Brainboyz, who degeneratated into Snotlings when the Orks ate all the cleverness fungus.
This made no sense, of course, on the basis that any species which is bright enough to genetically engineer Orks and Gretchin should be bright enough to realise that the fungus is what makes them clever, and make sure either that their supply was secure or that the effect of the fungus was engineered into themselves.
At this point, Orks didn't reproduce by spores.

Then in Gorkamorka, along come the spores. This is where the "Snotlings are brainboyz" thing starts to get rather iffy, as Snots, Grots, Orks and Squigs all come from the same spores. Of course, it's possible that this was the brainboyz intention as a failsafe (See later).

Otherwise, the entire Ork ecosystem was developed by a race which isn't about any more in any way, even as snotlings.

One thing is certain - the Ork race as we see them at the moment are the "holding pattern" for the species. This is what the Orks were designed to be like when the Brainboyz weren't in charge. Presumably, coded somewhere deep down in the genes is an additional switch beyond "Biggest is in charge", which would force the Orks to do what the Brainboyz tell them.

The Brainboyz even engineered in the Clan system - so you have Ork high strategic command and Spec Ops (Bloodaxes) Reconnaisance (Evil Sunz) Logistics, including psychic communication (Bad Moonz), deep enemy territory, low logistical support specialists (Snakebites), battlefield recovery specialists (Deathskulls) and assault troops/local command caste (Goffs)

Add in the addictive Ork personality to get even more troop specialisation, for Tankbustas, lootas, speed freeks etc. and you have quite a system. If it was united and coordinated by a proper command structure, rather than the rather Heath Robinson system they have at present, it would be terrifying. Which also shows just how hardcore the Necrons were not to be overwhelmed.

And this is where we come back to the Snotlings. If the brainboyz did hide themselves away in the ecosystem of the incredibly survivable warrior race they'd brewed up, presumably there was an intention that a trigger at some point would allow their re-emergence. This either hasn't worked, which would be the only thing the brainboyz ever got wrong, or just hasn't happened yet.

Given the recent fluff that Armageddon may be an original Ork homeworld - is it possible that the Boyz have a genetic imperitive to take over Armageddon in order to find this trigger?

There's also the theory, I think presented in the long OOP Xenology book, that Ghaz may simply be an unhitherto strain of Oddboy - specifically a leader caste.

Now of course, that book itself isn't exactly canonical, being a Black Library art book.

But when we learned of Urg of Ullanor, and his 'spiritual successor' The Beast, there may just be some truth to this. Given what we know of Ork Kultur, it also makes sociological sense.

Why?

Well, whether or not Ghaz was destined for his lofty height, it's utterly inevitable that someone, somewhere, is going to wind up the biggest, 'ardest Ork in the Galaxy, and thus the figurehead for the entire Orkoid race.

You can be undisputed Warboss of one area, but that only lasts until an inevitable confrontation with a rival Waaaagh!. The outcome there is that one Waaaagh! is subsumed into the other, and the Warboss continues.

Given enough success, or in Ghaz's case, some curiously accurate warp-hopping courtesy of Pet Weirdboyz, and you can have the biggest Warlord seeking out lesser Warbosses expressly for that purpose - to the point where, again like Ghaz, the other Warboss' have a tendency to just follow him without challenge.

So as I alluded to, the only question there is nature or nurture. Does Ghaz's level of kunnin' emerge when a Warboss reaches a certain 'critical mass' of support to necessitate it, or is Ghaz indeed a very rare, possibly one-in-one-hundred-generations emergence of Oddboy?

I suspect that all Orks have all the strains of oddboy in their genes - otherwise the "single spore starts the whole ecosystem" thing doesn't work - so Ghazzy may just be that set of oddboy genes kicking in once he's reached a sufficiently exalted level. I like that theory.

It could very well be a dormant strand.

It would also help keep things relatively straight forward for the chain of command. Two such supreme commanders would only lead to decimation of their own ranks - simply put it seems Ghaz has, more or less, reached that critical stage where even really mean Warbosses know he's the one to follow for the best fight.

If you had two, chances are they'd split the Ork species, and the resultant battle for overall, final dominance could very well do more harm than good. I mean, it'd be a great punch up, but who knows what state the forces of the final victor would be in once the dust settled?

On the Clans, it's particularly interesting to note that Yoofs find their clan once they've matured. It doesn't seem to necessarily follow that spores from a Bad Moon would only produce Orks of similar proclivities.

That Snakebites continue into the modern day speaks volumes there. Such anachronistic throwbacks shouldn't continue to emerge once an Ork Empire is established. On the surface of it, they don't have a great deal to offer, barring expertise in Runt Wrangling. But, I'd argue a constant, albeit likely minority, presence of Snakebites acts as a sort of kultural backstop. If the Boyz and Waaagh! fall on hard times, there's a certain level of technology they'll revert back to - and that's by no means entirely primitive.

Deffskullz also serve an important function. As Lootas par excellence, they'll be the group most likely to inspire Mekboyz to ever greater heights. If they come back from a battle with the wreck of a Baneblade, the local Mekboyz will instinctively want to build something that big and shooty themselves - either for themselves, or to curry favour with the Warboss.

My thought process there is heavily, if not entirely, influenced by a superb bit of background from old Epic (possibly also in the 40k books), where a Mek sees a Warlord Titan laying waste to an Ork horde He figures it must be the Emperor the Humies are always on about come to give the Boyz a good kicking.

From there, he resolves that if Da Emprah can have a body, why not Gork and Mork? Then they could gang up on Da Emprah and give him a good kicking.

Now it's entirely possible that was the original Gargant project way back when that background was first written. But in the modern day, with another 20+ years of background, it seems more likely it's just the story of how a Waaaagh! gathers pace.

I prefer the latter. Because it shows just how big a threat Orks are. If you engage them with your biggest toys, it only takes one suitably inspired Mekboy to survive, possibly making it off planet, for you to have just made things an awful lot harder for yourself in the future. Because he'll be back. And because of how Ork Kultur works, he won't be the only one. His efforts will inspire other Meks. Even if they can't build a Gargant themselves, they'll get the fever and churn out Kans and Dreds, others will set about building or looting ships big enough to transport. The Waaagh! returns, bigger, badder and far more serious a threat than ever before.

Man, I love Orkses!

One could also theorise that the Brainboyz, in the Orks, have built an immune system for the galaxy.

If the galaxy is reasonably peaceful, so are the Orks - squabbling amongst themselves, raiding nearby planets, exacting tribute from other alien races and generally having a good old Orky time of it in a low-level, no-real-risk-to-anyone way.

But if a big threat starts to emerge, something which could endanger or take over the galaxy, the Boyz unite. Because it's a big thing. And big things need a good kicking, to prove that the Boyz are best. They were designed for fighting the Necrontyr, after all.

So when this shiny golden guy turns up from Earth, declaring his "Great Crusade" - here come the Orks. This guy and his minions represent a real threat to the balance of the galaxy. And amazingly, Big E actually won! It took the Boyz 2,000 years to get their act back together after that one, but they did.

So, now the Bugs have turned up in the galactic east, and half the galaxy has turned into a rift to the Warp with all kinds of gribblies spilling out. Time for some Waaaghs, boyz...

Certainly a train of thought worthy of more pondering!

I'm also curious at the marked similarity between Orks and Tyranids.

Both are biologically impressive. Both are capable of rapidly developing counters to new threats.

I do stop short of suggesting that perhaps Orks are some proto-form of Tyranids of course. But then, one does ponder just why Tyranids reputedly have a hard time making use of Ork bio-mass....

Orks are a consciously designed species, with deliberately engineered in limitations. Bugs aren't - they're evolution gone nuts, with only one driving imperative - to consume.

Tyranids used to have problems incorporating Ork DNA because it was so darn Orky that it still connected to the gestalt Ork psychic consciousness (another bit of genius by the Brainboyz) and disrupted the Hive Mind. They seem to have evolved around that, though, and will now much down on Orks as happily as any other biomass.

There's that old fluff that when some mechanicus research stations pointed radio telescopes out of the edge of the galactic rim, into the endless void, they got unexpected results.

Drums, grunts, laughter and ork chatter. It's not impossible other more advanced or cognitively enabled orks are there just outside the galaxy in the void.

Dudeface wrote:
There's that old fluff that when some mechanicus research stations pointed radio telescopes out of the edge of the galactic rim, into the endless void, they got unexpected results.

Drums, grunts, laughter and ork chatter. It's not impossible other more advanced or cognitively enabled orks are there just outside the galaxy in the void.

If they intended to scan other galaxies, this means that the Brain Boyz either figured out a superior method of FTL than the warp, or they've got time travel

Leaning more towards the latter, because however big you think space is, it's several orders of magnitude bigger than that.

Or perhaps everything is Orks. A mekboy invents time travel, goes to the start of the universe, causes the universe.

There, Orks are canonically everything and are objectively the main protagonists of reality.

"The Old ones forgot to program in a fething off switch." - The Emperor

Lol well as dry a's that humour is, and I love dry humour, it's also correct. They are a doomsday weapon that outlived their creators. They don't have an off switch, at least none except which the Old Ones know.

As far as the extragalactic Orks, I believe the intent was that they were expanding into intergalactic space from our own galaxy, not that they were present in others.

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Lol well as dry a's that humour is, and I love dry humour, it's also correct. They are a doomsday weapon that outlived their creators. They don't have an off switch, at least none except which the Old Ones know.

Going by Mattard's "newcron" codex, they canonically didn't have time to install control mechanisms. They made preparations for the Orks to be controlled by the Eldar, but only got half way. Which is why the Eldar use SUDDEN WAAAAGH!! as their primary galactic-war strategy, but sometimes (often) fail.

There were also hints in late 2nd edition/Gorkamorka the Necrons had a hand. Gorkamorka was a Necron tomb world and early Necron lords had ork glyphs on their robes.

And here's an idea... What if the Brain Boys are still around? There's whole sections of the Galaxy the Imperium cannot get to because are entirely Ork dominated. What if they're still there, pulling the Ork strings from afar?

I also always like the bit of fluff from the early Ork boxes something like

"The first time a human met an ork they faced each other on a desolate world. They both took a long hard look at each other. Then drew their pistols and shot each other dead."

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

"The first time a human met an ork they faced each other on a desolate world. They both took a long hard look at each other. Then drew their pistols and shot each other dead."

Haha! I like that.

To be honest, I can imagine that's the way that pretty much all first-contact scenarios go in the 40k galaxy.

Except the Tau, insidious xenos that they are. They'll probably shake your hand and then try to culturally assimilate you. Sneaky buggers.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

Except the Tau, insidious xenos that they are. They'll probably shake your hand and then try to culturally assimilate you. Sneaky buggers.

Not if you can PURGE THE XENOS fast enough , they can't!

I thought I read in one of the ork codexes that squigs were the result of the tyranids to manipulate ork genetic to create a bioweapon, and the orks "stole back their brethren".

Also, the old tyranid lore heavily implied that biovores were made from Ork biomass (and Zenothropes from Eldar).

Yep RT fluff was that squigs were created by bids. Probably so they could add another model to flesh out the mid line

Ork were made to be the perfect tool and weapon of war, note tool and weapon.

They were not made to think about strategy or develop intricate political plans. They were not made to go for the path of least resistance. They were not made to scheme or tattle.

They were made to fight and die. They were made to thrive and make vicious war on their enemies. They were made with all the necessary skills and traits to allow them to inflict the maximum amount of damage to their enemies without evolving further.

The Old Ones made them as basically an unmanned missile. Send them towards the enemy and they'll probably do some damage.