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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I'm trying to decide on a new army and realized that my preferred play style is essentially characterized by the Dwarfs in Warhammer Fantasy Battle 8th edition. They basically castled up, let loose the big guns, and moved specific hardened units either to capture objectives or to tarpit/kill the right targets. Having been out of 40K for quite some time, what army would you say is closest to WFB Dwarfs? I'm assuming it's IG/AM but thought Necrons might fit the bill as well. If it is IG/AM, what regiment most fits that playstyle fluff/ruleswise.

Thanks for the help.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Squats?

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch




It's not IG they are a more hord type army
It may be a more SM type

2000 6000 with Reaver Titan guard 2k
2500 (imperial force)
2500 (trimming down in 8th)
TS 30k at 5k points
Yes I have a problem
 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







Weird question playstyle-wise. Neither Necrons nor Guard want an enemy to get anywhere near them; Necrons play as a pretty basic gunline with a few dedicated counterassault units to stop the other guy from just straight ripping open their line, Guard really don't like to be in combat. You'd probably be best-off with Necrons, Guard don't have the durability for the comparison to make one whit of sense.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using. 
   
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England



   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Space Marines would probably be your best bet I think. They are sturdy, strong, shooty, but have some melee. They are also a very safe pick because they will always be showered with releases and updates.

 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Playing Necrons is more like playing an archer focused Tomb Kings list (they are space TKs after all).

IG are more equivalent to an Empire gunline.

As others have said Space Marines are the closest thing to Dwarves in 40k. There used to be a literal space dwarf army (squats), but they are long gone.
   
Made in us
Crushing Clawed Fiend




Austin, Texas

Squats got squatted a long time ago. Mainly because there wasn't much difference between them and SM.
   
Made in ca
Stalwart Tribune






Based on your criteria I would suggest either a artillery heavy and Ogren heavy imperial guard or a terminator and artillery heavy space marine army. No other army i can think of really has a defensive style.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




A few options:

IG: If you focus on the more elite units (ogryns for example) as your advancing unit, you get a reasonable facsimile. You have the best big guns for sure as well.

SM: Presumably imperial fist and iron hands will do an even better job of this later.

CSM: DG and Tsons can do this particularly well now, assume iron warriors will do it better later.

Admech: You are describing the basic army build I've been using, Kastellans and Destroyers are tough units I use to advance, rangers sit back and castle around my onagers.
   
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Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard



UK

Space wolves really are as close as you'll get bearded marines swinging around large rune encrusted axes.
   
Made in dk
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe






Space Wolves are way too agressive, they are more like 40k beastmen if anything.

Id say Imperial Fists, they are known for being stalwart defenders like the classical dwarves from fantasy.


http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Fists
"The Imperial Fists stand as the steadfast defenders of the Imperium and the Emperor's unwavering shield; for ten thousand standard years they have been the bulwark against which the armies of Traitors and aliens have shattered."

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/16 09:33:39


6000 World Eaters/Khorne

7000 Space Wolves 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Tau might be your best bet. Castling up and nuking their targets from afar is a viable strategy for them. I'm actually surprised no one mentioned them yet. That's like, what they are known for. They are T3 though (except for the crisis suits), so not as durable as dwarfs. They also don't have psy powers, just like dwarfs don't have magic. No counters though.
IG can also do some castling, but they are also pretty squishy compared to dwarfs and you generally want to use their vehicles. They are probably closer to handgunner empire armies with steam tanks.

Space Marines can do a gunline army, and they are pretty tough. They don't have as many big guns as tau or IG though, and Tau can play the range game better, as the Tau basic infantry weapon, the Pulse rifle, has one strength higher and 6" more range than the basic Marine weapon, the bolter. The new Primaris Marines also have 30" range guns like the Tau, but its still at S4, although it does have a save modifier which the pulse rifle lacks.

Necrons are tough, but they have medium ranged weaponry so castling up and being static does not work in their interests.
They aren't really like dwarfs, probably closer to lizards. They only thing that makes them similar to dwarfs in terms of play style is that they don't use magic and have ways of countering it.
I know that people would compare them to TK, but other than the fact that they share a motif they don't really play the same.
TK are T3 with poor armor, necrons are T4 with good armor.
TK have a lot of mobility options (they had a bound spell that gave a unit another move) and are actually quite fast (lots of light cav and chariots).
Necrons aren't that fast (not that many dedicated transports, few fast movers, usually foot sloggers) unless they can teleport. Which they can't now because the Index didn't give them their veil of darkness and withdraw from combat monolith power. Kind of annoyed by that.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/07/16 09:52:55


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard



UK

 Brutallica wrote:
Space Wolves are way too agressive, they are more like 40k beastmen if anything.

Id say Imperial Fists, they are known for being stalwart defenders like the classical dwarves from fantasy.


http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Fists
"The Imperial Fists stand as the steadfast defenders of the Imperium and the Emperor's unwavering shield; for ten thousand standard years they have been the bulwark against which the armies of Traitors and aliens have shattered."


Pfft emo self mutilators more concerned with getting themselves off with their bdsm torture cages.

Now wolves know how to hold a grudge and won't stop till they reach completion, while hard drinking.
   
Made in ch
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Necrons are slow moving foot sloggers with powerful ranged capabilities, the best metal in-setting, have brilliant technology, possess no psykers but use their own version of 'magic', live in underground vaults and hold a mutual grudge against the Space Elves after a war that wrecked both of their people (but both hate Chaos more).

Death Guard have the slow moving, hard-to-kill and ranged focus down, though they're not a gunline army.

Tau and Imperial Guard do shooting the best. Tau technically have Space Dwarfs (Demiurg AKA the new Squats) on their side but have no models or much lore. On the other hand, you could always convert the AoS Kharadron Overlords into being Imperial-aligned Squats using the IG list.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/07/16 11:37:45


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Necrons aren't gunline either though. 24" range nearly across the board does not a gunline make. If you try to play necrons as a gunline, you're doing it wrong.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Necrons aren't gunline either though. 24" range nearly across the board does not a gunline make. If you try to play necrons as a gunline, you're doing it wrong.


24" is the range of most infantry scale weapons. other then Tau and the new Primaris Marine, does any army have a basic troop that can out range that?

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe






hobojebus wrote:
 Brutallica wrote:
Space Wolves are way too agressive, they are more like 40k beastmen if anything.

Id say Imperial Fists, they are known for being stalwart defenders like the classical dwarves from fantasy.


http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Fists
"The Imperial Fists stand as the steadfast defenders of the Imperium and the Emperor's unwavering shield; for ten thousand standard years they have been the bulwark against which the armies of Traitors and aliens have shattered."


Pfft emo self mutilators more concerned with getting themselves off with their bdsm torture cages.

Now wolves know how to hold a grudge and won't stop till they reach completion, while hard drinking.


Wolves dont sit in a backfield waiting to be charged. He wanted an army that played like dwarves, its irrerelevant how much a wolf drinks, hates or beard their chin. If he wants dwarf look he can just swap heads and equipment etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/16 12:01:20


6000 World Eaters/Khorne

7000 Space Wolves 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

BrianDavion wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Necrons aren't gunline either though. 24" range nearly across the board does not a gunline make. If you try to play necrons as a gunline, you're doing it wrong.


24" is the range of most infantry scale weapons. other then Tau and the new Primaris Marine, does any army have a basic troop that can out range that?


Every other army can commonly take weapons that outrange that. For necrons such weapons are in short supply.
Necrons have 3 units that can take a weapon that exceeds 24" - Doomsday arks, Heavy Destroyers, Triarch Stalkers
All of which are pricey and small / single units.
Compare that to SM which can give any basic infantry squad a missle launcher, plasma cannon or lascannon. Would you really say the necrons are a gunline army when they are relatively outranged by most other armies?

If you try to engage in a shooting match against marines and not move at all, you'll get outshot because they don't have that many guns to bear.
Even gauss cannons are 24"


That's not to say necron shooting is weak, it isn't, its just that they aren't intended to stand still and shoot, but rather march up and shoot while receiving support from the few long ranged weapons they have.
Gunlines aren't like that. When I hear gunline, to me that means the army isn't going to move that much or at all and just shoot the enemy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Brutallica wrote:
hobojebus wrote:
 Brutallica wrote:
Space Wolves are way too agressive, they are more like 40k beastmen if anything.

Id say Imperial Fists, they are known for being stalwart defenders like the classical dwarves from fantasy.


http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Fists
"The Imperial Fists stand as the steadfast defenders of the Imperium and the Emperor's unwavering shield; for ten thousand standard years they have been the bulwark against which the armies of Traitors and aliens have shattered."


Pfft emo self mutilators more concerned with getting themselves off with their bdsm torture cages.

Now wolves know how to hold a grudge and won't stop till they reach completion, while hard drinking.


Wolves dont sit in a backfield waiting to be charged. He wanted an army that played like dwarves, its irrerelevant how much a wolf drinks, hates or beard their chin. If he wants dwarf look he can just swap heads and equipment etc.


Yeah, what people seem to be missing in this thread is not "which armies are thematically like dwarfs", but "what armies can make a good gunline like dwarfs"

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2017/07/16 12:14:14


What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in at
'Jack Scrapper





Austria

Space Wolves
Making up a good gun line and have Slayer like melee units and are played more like a combined force.
Also Wolfsscouts fit more the elite theme of dwarf Rangers
Also Background/style fits the celtic warhammer dwarf theme

playing Hammer &Anvil with Long Fangs/Grey Hunters and Wulfen/Scouts/Termis

Wolves dont sit in a backfield waiting to be charged. He wanted an army that played like dwarves

Also dwarfs never sat back and waited to be killed
Having some of the best melee units in game and having options to countercharge.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/16 13:31:02


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in gb
Boosting Space Marine Biker




Yeah, what people seem to be missing in this thread is not "which armies are thematically like dwarfs", but "what armies can make a good gunline like dwarfs"
[/quote

Wolves can absolutely play that style though, Long fangs and grey hunters are the best defensive marine unis in their class. He wants just a few units to hold up he enemy with them then this works well.

Forget Thunderwolf cavalry and all the jazzy stuff and go back to old school wolves and htis is how they'll play
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Are they really that special now though? Everyone can split fire now, so aren't Long Fangs just devastators?

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gr
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

I'm not sure if it translates into 8th, but perhaps Iron warrior themed chaos could fit the play style?

A large element of tough sit back and fire units (havoks and obliterators), with a few aggressive units (bikes/heldrakes as a counter part to gyrochopters), blockers (spawn/dreads) and 'pop up' disposable threats (mutilators, terminators and daemons in place of miners or rangers).
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Yeah, Iron Warriors would be pretty good. In the past they could even take IG artillery. Can't now though.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in at
'Jack Scrapper





Austria

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Are they really that special now though? Everyone can split fire now, so aren't Long Fangs just devastators?

Because everyone can split fire now, Long Fangs got a re-roll if the whole unit has only one target
additional you can add a Terminator Pack Leader with heavy weapons

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 kodos wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Are they really that special now though? Everyone can split fire now, so aren't Long Fangs just devastators?

Because everyone can split fire now, Long Fangs got a re-roll if the whole unit has only one target
additional you can add a Terminator Pack Leader with heavy weapons


That's pretty handy.
Its funny though how it went from being able to engage multiple targets to being really good at engaging a single target

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Boosting Space Marine Biker




 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 kodos wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Are they really that special now though? Everyone can split fire now, so aren't Long Fangs just devastators?

Because everyone can split fire now, Long Fangs got a re-roll if the whole unit has only one target
additional you can add a Terminator Pack Leader with heavy weapons


That's pretty handy.
Its funny though how it went from being able to engage multiple targets to being really good at engaging a single target


You also get an extra heavy weapon compared to devs
   
Made in dk
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe






 kodos wrote:
Space Wolves
Making up a good gun line and have Slayer like melee units and are played more like a combined force.
Also Wolfsscouts fit more the elite theme of dwarf Rangers
Also Background/style fits the celtic warhammer dwarf theme

playing Hammer &Anvil with Long Fangs/Grey Hunters and Wulfen/Scouts/Termis

Wolves dont sit in a backfield waiting to be charged. He wanted an army that played like dwarves

Also dwarfs never sat back and waited to be killed
Having some of the best melee units in game and having options to countercharge.


In 8th edition Warhammer Fantasy they did sit back. And this is the playstyle he is looking for.

Dwarves usually used the tactic of letting to let the enemy come to you and dictate the pace of the battle. No reasons to engage the foe before they had taken a great pounding from the cannons and gyrocopters. Dwarves never had the best melee units, but they did have very tough and tanky units but they didnt do extreme amouts of hurt, usually just severly halting the enemy charge.

If he wants a 40k army thats matches the usual Fantasy Warhammer Dwarves, Wulfen and thunderwolves are out of character without a doubt, and thats some main units from space wolves right there that is mostly on the charge and not the counter charge. And with codexes coming out for Space Marines Imperial Fists he is gonna get a lot of dwarf'esque/defensive tactics and warlord traits from Imperial Fist thats for sure.

But hey, if your view of Dwarves is an melee agressive army that meets the opponent chargeing head on in the field SW would probably match well.

6000 World Eaters/Khorne

7000 Space Wolves 
   
Made in gb
Boosting Space Marine Biker




Wulfen and Thunderwolves are very new additions to space wolves, used to be tha the difficulty of dealing with a SW army was it was hard to figure out what to charge since grey hunters guns were backed up by decent melee
   
Made in at
'Jack Scrapper





Austria

 Brutallica wrote:

In 8th edition Warhammer Fantasy they did sit back. And this is the playstyle he is looking for.
Dwarves usually used the tactic of letting to let the enemy come to you and dictate the pace of the battle.


I played Dwarfs from end of 5th to the end of 8th Edition and their playstyle always was more like passive/aggressive

the famous table edge fortress of dwarfs sitting in the back was a style for team tournaments for save draw against everyone
while if you wanted to win a game, waiting for the other one to come to you never worked

even in 8th making use of Gyrocopters, Rangers and Miners to either force the enemy to come to your heavy units or to bind them until your units are there was for effective than sitting back and hope that the other one is stupid enough to move towards your line

Same in 40k, sitting back and wait will not win you games, especially with the marker missions and infantry spam

and from all the Index armys, Wolves have the same combination of passive/tanky units with mid to long range fire power and those Range/Miner like units that dwarfs had.

Wulfen and thunderwolves are out of character without a doubt,

TWC because they are cavalry maybe, but not Wulfen as they match Dwarf Slayers very well

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/16 15:59:05


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
 
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