Switch Theme:

Store Champsionship List  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

So my local store championships is coming up and i'm thinking of running this:

Whisper
ACD
VI
Collision Detector
Recon Specialist

Major Stridan
Tactical Jammer
Electronic Baffle
Weapons Engineer
Targeting Synchronizer

Epsilon Squad Pilot
Targeting Synchronizer

98pts in total


yes i know that there's a phantom in there and it's because i want to bring the phantoms back

Armies:
: 500

: 4500pts

Imperial Knight: x3 (2 gw Knights and 1 converted Acheron knight, wasn't going to pay Forgeworlds price.)
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Best bush pilot in the Outer Rim





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

The one problem that I see with the phantom is the Recon Specialist. Especially with Whisper, I tend to either prefer Kallus (extra dakka) or Rebel Captive, to make it painful to target her.

I have to give my Hateful Eights a pass at a store championship one of these days. Or maybe just a Quaterly game night...

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/503887.page (My humble P&M thread that I'll sometimes update, here on Dakka.) 
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

hmm see i like to have the tokens for defense especailly with the phantom. might have to give Kallus a try. i assume you pick the deadliest ship that they have.

Armies:
: 500

: 4500pts

Imperial Knight: x3 (2 gw Knights and 1 converted Acheron knight, wasn't going to pay Forgeworlds price.)
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Best bush pilot in the Outer Rim





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

Yes, definitely. It's no big deal if it dies fast and you "lose" Agent Kallus. The other option would be their most evasive target, as an extra hit guarantee(as long as you roll paint) can go a long way.

Take evade on Whisper and get your Focus once you attack. You'll be fully tokened up.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/503887.page (My humble P&M thread that I'll sometimes update, here on Dakka.) 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Bird from Hell






Sorry, but no.

Whisper automatically dies to PS 11 cruise missiles, and is not really viable in the current meta. And collision detector makes absolutely no sense, it's a worthless upgrade. Recon specialist is marginal, it's not the worst thing ever but Whisper already has a good supply of focus tokens. Kallus and rebel captive are the default choices for good reasons.

Stridan is adding nothing to your list except taking up points. Tactical jammer is useless when you don't want to fly in formation with Whisper, and once someone gets behind your shuttle it's an expensive paperweight that will never get to shoot. And just to make it worse you're essentially spending a bunch of points on a support ship dedicated to providing Whisper with target locks, something you can do with a 2-point FCS that is the default choice on Whisper for a reason.

The generic TIE/fo is absolutely worthless. It can't kill anything, the targeting synchronizer should be dumped for FCS on Whisper, and in general it's just going to sit there being useless until something decides to remove it from the table.

#FreezePeach

My DKoK painting blog.

My X-Wing painting blog.

SELL ME YOUR FORGEWORLD SUPERHEAVIES

Armored Company
W/L/D: 2130235/0/1 (I played myself once and had a draw) 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Best bush pilot in the Outer Rim





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

Well, yes, your premises are all sound. But he stated he wants to play a Phantom. So with that in mind...

Funnily enough, at the tournament this weekend, the only PS11 Cruise Missiles were those I had written in a list for a guy I know. He still was unable to score more than a single win in four games.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/503887.page (My humble P&M thread that I'll sometimes update, here on Dakka.) 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Bird from Hell






 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
But he stated he wants to play a Phantom.


Sure. But if you're going to play a Phantom it needs to be fit correctly (not wasting slots on collision detector) and the rest of the list needs to be really good to cover the massive weaknesses Whisper has against large parts of the meta. You can't afford to take a phantom and 60 points of dead weight like the OP's list.

Funnily enough, at the tournament this weekend, the only PS11 Cruise Missiles were those I had written in a list for a guy I know. He still was unable to score more than a single win in four games.


We'll see how long that lasts. Based on the conversations among the competitive players in my area I don't think it's something you can afford to ignore.

#FreezePeach

My DKoK painting blog.

My X-Wing painting blog.

SELL ME YOUR FORGEWORLD SUPERHEAVIES

Armored Company
W/L/D: 2130235/0/1 (I played myself once and had a draw) 
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

Actually i've used this list locally and am 4:2. i think a lot of it is what your local meta is. currently ours is still tlt spam.

Whisper, Collision detector makes perfect sense and am not sure on the hate.... you can decloak over debris (which i'll be using) to get out of situations. Recon specialist is for those times when i have a higher PS opponent and need the Focus for Defense and then Offense.

Stridan has been awesome to use. it lets me reposition Whisper if i think that things are going to get tight. And the Electronic Baffle lets me stop in the face of the enemy and unload at range 1 if the need arises.

The TIE/FO is there for points because i want an initiative bid and i can't fit in Subacc with LWF.

So in short, local meta doesn't currently have PS11 Cruise Missiles and the majority of people are still flying PS9 and only a few PS10 pilots.

Armies:
: 500

: 4500pts

Imperial Knight: x3 (2 gw Knights and 1 converted Acheron knight, wasn't going to pay Forgeworlds price.)
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Bird from Hell






 captain bloody fists wrote:
you can decloak over debris (which i'll be using) to get out of situations.


And then you take stress and die. Please don't do this.

Recon specialist is for those times when i have a higher PS opponent and need the Focus for Defense and then Offense.


That's what Kallus is for. On two green dice it's as good as a focus the vast majority of the time, and lets you stack "focus" + evade defensively and have a chance of surviving long enough to shoot and cloak. And if you're facing more than one enemy ship at PS 9+ you're screwed anyway, so there's no point in planning for that situation.

Stridan has been awesome to use. it lets me reposition Whisper if i think that things are going to get tight.


Err, how? Stridan is PS 4. Whisper can already reposition at PS 9. You are getting very little benefit from a very expensive ship.

And the Electronic Baffle lets me stop in the face of the enemy and unload at range 1 if the need arises.


Ok? You're still easily flanked, and might as well take FCS to make your shots count before you die. Killing yourself for extra stop maneuvers only delays the inevitable, especially when the trick is so incredibly obvious that you're never going to surprise anyone with it.

#FreezePeach

My DKoK painting blog.

My X-Wing painting blog.

SELL ME YOUR FORGEWORLD SUPERHEAVIES

Armored Company
W/L/D: 2130235/0/1 (I played myself once and had a draw) 
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

Cool that's your opinion.

Armies:
: 500

: 4500pts

Imperial Knight: x3 (2 gw Knights and 1 converted Acheron knight, wasn't going to pay Forgeworlds price.)
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Bird from Hell






 captain bloody fists wrote:
Cool that's your opinion.


Why even post a list thread if you're just going to dismiss anything that isn't praising how awesome you and your list are?

#FreezePeach

My DKoK painting blog.

My X-Wing painting blog.

SELL ME YOUR FORGEWORLD SUPERHEAVIES

Armored Company
W/L/D: 2130235/0/1 (I played myself once and had a draw) 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Best bush pilot in the Outer Rim





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

 Peregrine wrote:
 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Funnily enough, at the tournament this weekend, the only PS11 Cruise Missiles were those I had written in a list for a guy I know. He still was unable to score more than a single win in four games.


We'll see how long that lasts. Based on the conversations among the competitive players in my area I don't think it's something you can afford to ignore.


Agreed. I've got a hankering to try that Vader/Quickdraw/Inq list in a couple of weeks. (Have to finish a store championship that started last week first)

The TLT Spam is brutal in its Imperial Version...

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/503887.page (My humble P&M thread that I'll sometimes update, here on Dakka.) 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 captain bloody fists wrote:
Cool that's your opinion.


More or less mine too.

FCS on Whisper is pretty much nailed on because of how efficient it is combined with a 4-dice primary. You have so many options between decloak and barrel roll that the Collision Detector's usefulness is pretty much 0. Why are you decloaking over obstacles in the first place? Whisper should be getting a free Focus token in most cases once you shoot at PS9 and when flown correctly you shouldn't be defending against more than 1 shot a turn so the Recon Specialist isn't doing much for you. Kallus is great, or Intel Agent, or if you need to save points no crew is OK too.

Stridan seems to be a strange choice. Personally, I like the Upsilon and think the Coordinate action is generally underestimated. However, in this case you're loading up on points that I just don't think are useful in your list. Tactical Jammer likely does nothing for your list because you aren't flying in formation and the other upgrades don't help the list at all once you add FCS to Whisper. The TIE f/o also doesn't seem to add anything. If you want a cheap filler ship try Wampa, or maybe Mauler with Snap Shot. They might actually contribute some damage against your opponent.

Overall I think you're spending points very inefficiently. The list doesn't really synergise particularly well, to the point that I'd be tempted to go back to the drawing board completely. Try a more standard Whisper build and put a list together around that.
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

 Peregrine wrote:
 captain bloody fists wrote:
Cool that's your opinion.


Why even post a list thread if you're just going to dismiss anything that isn't praising how awesome you and your list are?


You know what feth it you're right... i can't be bothered posting lists here anymore that are Xwing related. Non standard lists that don't fit into your little box of "this is how this should always be kitted out and anything else & you're wrong" attitude is potentially why this forum seems to of died as of late. Maybe people are tired of being shat on by an over bloated Hawk for thinking outside the box and trying something new.

Armies:
: 500

: 4500pts

Imperial Knight: x3 (2 gw Knights and 1 converted Acheron knight, wasn't going to pay Forgeworlds price.)
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Bird from Hell






 captain bloody fists wrote:
You know what feth it you're right... i can't be bothered posting lists here anymore that are Xwing related. Non standard lists that don't fit into your little box of "this is how this should always be kitted out and anything else & you're wrong" attitude is potentially why this forum seems to of died as of late. Maybe people are tired of being shat on by an over bloated Hawk for thinking outside the box and trying something new.


Sorry if the truth hurts. I'm not going to pretend that bad ideas like using collision detector to decloak over debris and give Whisper stress are viable plans just so people can get the ego fluffing they apparently need. No. Bad ideas are bad ideas no matter how much you want to be told they're great. I'm all in favor of thinking outside the box, but part of that has to include a willingness to accept that the box exists for a reason and most outside-the-box ideas are going to fail.

#FreezePeach

My DKoK painting blog.

My X-Wing painting blog.

SELL ME YOUR FORGEWORLD SUPERHEAVIES

Armored Company
W/L/D: 2130235/0/1 (I played myself once and had a draw) 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 captain bloody fists wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 captain bloody fists wrote:
Cool that's your opinion.


Why even post a list thread if you're just going to dismiss anything that isn't praising how awesome you and your list are?


You know what feth it you're right... i can't be bothered posting lists here anymore that are Xwing related. Non standard lists that don't fit into your little box of "this is how this should always be kitted out and anything else & you're wrong" attitude is potentially why this forum seems to of died as of late. Maybe people are tired of being shat on by an over bloated Hawk for thinking outside the box and trying something new.


While I agree that sometimes there can be responses here that are rather blunt and perhaps not as conducive to friendly debate as would be ideal, I don't think the contents of those same posts is actually unhelpful. If you're going to post a list for critique, you need to be prepared to take on board that criticism. You also need to be prepared to defend your choices if you think somebody's advice is off the mark.

Take the Collision Detector on Whisper as an example. It's free, but that's about the only good thing you can say about it. Decloaking over debris is a bad idea. You won't surprise a good opponent by doing it since they know what upgrades you have, but you will limit yourself to taking a green move on Whisper the turn you do it. All things considered, your combo of Rec Spec and Collision Detector is just worse than FCS and Intel Agent (or no crew) and you're spending too many points on Stridan to try to give a target lock to Whisper. It's not a case of "Phantoms suck, git gud and fly a Mindlink list", but more a case of the upgrades and pilots you've chosen just aren't that great in terms of the basic set-up or synergy.

If you want a list critique you have to be prepared to hear about the best ways to run certain ships, otherwise what's the point? Outside of the box thinking is fine but just having something be weird and unexpected doesn't make it good.

In an attempt to be more constructive, and keeping the two main ships in your list, I think this would be an improvement:

Whisper: VI, FCS, ACD, Agent Kallus (41)

Kylo Ren: VI, Electronic Baffle, Pattern Analyser, Tactician, Title (42)

Wampa (14)

You get a solid, self-sufficient Whisper and by not taking a whole bunch of crew in an attempt to give your Phantom target locks you free up points for a better shuttle. Tactician gives you a small amount of stress dealing and Wampa is a pretty good filler ship when your other 2 are so dangerous.
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

So upon calming down I took some of your thoughts on board and went back to the drawing board. And came up with the attached.

Now the thoughts behind it were that whisper is the standard build.

Subacc with the Score to settle might do alright to maximise the damage potential out of the extra die before loosing it.

And Kestal with the TLT might be a flanker to harass stuff with.

Thoughts and opinions


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Plus I've got a few points spare. But I'm figuring I would want at least 2 maybe 3 point bid with this build to get Whisper cloaked before shots come at her.
[Thumb - received_10214253510960958.jpeg]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/20 09:52:18


Armies:
: 500

: 4500pts

Imperial Knight: x3 (2 gw Knights and 1 converted Acheron knight, wasn't going to pay Forgeworlds price.)
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Best bush pilot in the Outer Rim





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

Better, imho.

One thing I found in tournaments is that big ships are a detriment to your MoV, unless you can really crush your opponent.

I like the fact that all your ships keep your points until they are dead. They are all somewhat independent, so you don't need to fly in formation.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/503887.page (My humble P&M thread that I'll sometimes update, here on Dakka.) 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




If you're going to use Kestal as a flanker, maybe go for Lone Wolf? Might help get a bit more use of her ability by having some dice mods without having to spend the Focus token.

I'd say you probably want a 3 point bid with Whisper so 97 is about the maximum you'd want to run this list. Having said that, a lot of the current PS9 ships run in lists at 99 or 100 points (Fenn tends to appear in Dengar/Fenn or Mindlink lists that are usually pretty much 100 points).
   
Made in ca
[DCM]
Best bush pilot in the Outer Rim





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

As a tangent, when thinking outside the box, I've just seen our current top player (I'll have something to say about it next week) at our part 1 of 2 Store Championship play something that was completely weird. He was banking on that, too.

Jan Ors, Wired, TLT, Nien Nunb
Jake the Snake, PTL, Test Pilot, Adaptability, Prockets, AT
Nera Dantels, Plasma Torps, Decoy, FCS, G Chips

He kept his group fairly tight to benefit from their synergies, and Decoy played mind games with everyone. Would it last for a long time? Probably not. I'm guessing the 2 weeks between the Swiss rounds and Top 4 will give us enough time to concoct countermeasures.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/23 15:25:44


 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/503887.page (My humble P&M thread that I'll sometimes update, here on Dakka.) 
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

So.... came second overall. My only match I lost was to a PS10 Captain Nym, Biggs and BTL Y wing

Armies:
: 500

: 4500pts

Imperial Knight: x3 (2 gw Knights and 1 converted Acheron knight, wasn't going to pay Forgeworlds price.)
 
   
Made in ca
[DCM]
Best bush pilot in the Outer Rim





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

With or without Sabine?

It sounds like a variation on the Heaver Naboo list.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/503887.page (My humble P&M thread that I'll sometimes update, here on Dakka.) 
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

Without.

Armies:
: 500

: 4500pts

Imperial Knight: x3 (2 gw Knights and 1 converted Acheron knight, wasn't going to pay Forgeworlds price.)
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Best bush pilot in the Outer Rim





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

Kudos to him, then. He worked twice as hard.

You did well too, of course!

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/503887.page (My humble P&M thread that I'll sometimes update, here on Dakka.) 
   
Made in au
Missionary On A Mission





Australia

Yeah, i'm a bit disappointed to of lost to him but out of 15 players second isn't bad.

Well i've got three months to figure out how to break the list before Nationals here in Australia.

Armies:
: 500

: 4500pts

Imperial Knight: x3 (2 gw Knights and 1 converted Acheron knight, wasn't going to pay Forgeworlds price.)
 
   
 
Forum Index » Star Wars Miniature Games by Fantasy Flight
Go to: