Author |
Message |
|
|
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
|
2017/07/17 17:12:43
Subject: ATC Nausea
|
|
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm
|
The ATC armies last weekend were worse than ever regarding spam and abuse. I have not given up hope that things will improve, but the rock/paper/scissors effect is even worse than in 7th. I really think that one of the largest problems is GW's abandonment of the Force Org Chart. Maybe we need a minimum required percentage of each army to be in Troops.... whether in points, number of units, or number of models.
|
|
|
|
2017/07/17 19:57:19
Subject: ATC Nausea
|
|
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon
|
Might you be able to provide some examples?
|
|
|
|
2017/07/17 23:39:36
Subject: ATC Nausea
|
|
Foolproof Falcon Pilot
|
Seems like the majority of top lists were ones that spammed certain units. For example, taking nothing but flyers (storm ravens/hemlock fighters) or a combination of really good units like horrors/psykers/conscripts and various other goodies in the relevant codex.
You can find relevant lists and placings here: http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2017/07/17/40k-team-sport-atc-list-meta/
|
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
My gaming blog regarding Eldar and soon to be CSM:Thousand Sons: http://yriel.blogspot.com/
My WIP Tyranid Fandex:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/576691.page#6486415 |
|
|
|
2017/07/18 02:57:37
Subject: ATC Nausea
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
You know what makes me sad. It's not the fact all the best units and lists people have been stating the last month that are powerful are spammed (guilliman circle of rerolls, ravenspam, brimstone spam, razor wing flock spam, ynnari, conscript spam, artillery spam, scion spam, genecult stealer spam, tau commander spam, etc)
it's the fact orks continue to get the short end of the stick once again this edition..
Also by far stormraven is the most spammed unit but I think it's just the etc way which forces different armies and there are like 5 variants of space marines so each team can have multiple raven wing spam lists just by calling them by a separate chapter faction.
|
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/07/18 03:26:31
|
|
|
|
2017/07/18 03:11:52
Subject: ATC Nausea
|
|
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth
|
The West Coast GT winner ran orks. Frankly, the list is just like these others you're describing spam-wise, though (the full recap is here):
http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Jeff-Everitt-1st-Overall-Wet-Coast-GT-2017.pdf
Things are looking a little grim for tournament army compositions in the new ruleset, I'll give you that!
|
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/07/18 03:39:15
|
|
|
|
2017/07/18 03:33:04
Subject: ATC Nausea
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
I think gw can do another FAQ and fix a few issues such as stormravens being a bit undercosted however I don't think they can fix the issues with spam units this edition. Even if they nerfed everything spammed within these lists something else would get spammed under the current army design guidelines. However there are a handful of spammed units that are grossly overpowered for thier cost that need to be addressed immediately and a few more units that are fairly underpowered.
|
|
|
|
2017/07/18 03:38:34
Subject: ATC Nausea
|
|
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis
Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)
|
It's early. Things will settle. Plus team event lists are much more focused than singles lists due to ability to somewhat control match ups. Spam has happened since 3rd edition. It's not going anywhere now. But more balanced lists will start to emerge as peoplease adjust to the game and codexes start to release.
|
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) |
|
|
|
2017/07/18 07:02:25
Subject: ATC Nausea
|
|
Dakka Veteran
|
That list looks pretty orky actually!
|
|
|
|
2017/07/18 11:31:29
Subject: ATC Nausea
|
|
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth
|
That's true, compared to these others I've really warmed up to it
|
|
|
|
2017/07/18 12:16:09
Subject: ATC Nausea
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
That isn't all that spammier than 4th or 5th ed spam lists, and it's orky!
|
|
|
|
2017/07/18 12:22:54
Subject: ATC Nausea
|
|
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
Little Rock, Arkansas
|
It would be interesting if they added a matched play rule where taking the same unit more than say...twice, causes it to cost 10% more or something, or maybe a CP.
|
20000+ points
Tournament reports:
1234567 |
|
|
|
2017/07/20 23:44:06
Subject: Re:ATC Nausea
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
I'm wondering if restrictioning to a single battalion detachment will,keep things in check.
|
|
|
|
2017/07/21 02:21:30
Subject: ATC Nausea
|
|
Tunneling Trygon
|
Hulksmash wrote:It's early. Things will settle. Plus team event lists are much more focused than singles lists due to ability to somewhat control match ups. Spam has happened since 3rd edition. It's not going anywhere now. But more balanced lists will start to emerge as peoplease adjust to the game and codexes start to release.
This. You would never see these lists do well in a major non-team GT. So of course they are able to take min maxing to the next level at an event like this. I would not take this tournament as any indication of the current game state.
|
|
|
|
2017/07/21 06:53:54
Subject: ATC Nausea
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
luke1705 wrote: Hulksmash wrote:It's early. Things will settle. Plus team event lists are much more focused than singles lists due to ability to somewhat control match ups. Spam has happened since 3rd edition. It's not going anywhere now. But more balanced lists will start to emerge as peoplease adjust to the game and codexes start to release.
This. You would never see these lists do well in a major non-team GT. So of course they are able to take min maxing to the next level at an event like this. I would not take this tournament as any indication of the current game state.
Um these lists already won major tournaments. Ravenspam won two majors, and brimstone and razorwing, did well in both majors as well. If your going to make boa tent claims about majors at least look at the last 3 majors to seee your statement is already wrong.
|
|
|
|
2017/07/21 07:59:51
Subject: ATC Nausea
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
I know you guys hate it, but,
Comp is our only hope.
|
|
|
|
2017/07/21 08:39:26
Subject: ATC Nausea
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Even if somehow all these horde type lists were somehow comped or nerfed, Mass SR would then go back to being an issue again. These are becoming popular because they can either reliably deal with mass SR or because they can deal with mass razorflocks or mass brimstones which counter mass SR.
Actually, I wonder how a horde vs horde battle can even finish considering the hundreds of dice being rolled. lol
|
|
|
|
2017/07/21 10:03:44
Subject: ATC Nausea
|
|
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
Little Rock, Arkansas
|
I think it'd be neat to limit using the same datasheet more than twice, and if you must use it a 3rd time or beyond, you pay a CP for each. Could be interesting especially when more armies have uses for CP and probably would not like paying that.
|
20000+ points
Tournament reports:
1234567 |
|
|
|
2017/07/21 11:43:47
Subject: ATC Nausea
|
|
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
|
niv-mizzet wrote:I think it'd be neat to limit using the same datasheet more than twice, and if you must use it a 3rd time or beyond, you pay a CP for each. Could be interesting especially when more armies have uses for CP and probably would not like paying that.
I'm not sure that helps much if you just have to pay CP for things. If you wanted to go that way my preference would be
1.) No non-troop data sheet may be taken more than 2 times (maybe 3?)
2.) No Air-wing detachment
3.) No Auxiliary detachment
4.) Maximum of 1 patrol detachment
This stops spam of any one type of unit, and also caps flyer spam pretty effectively (Raven spam would, just become imperial flyer spam pretty easily otherwise.
|
|
|
|
2017/07/22 20:08:43
Subject: Re:ATC Nausea
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
A small notable solution I see is in the example of the Nova Open missions. One of the secondaries actually makes you auto give up 2pts per game if you don't bring at least one troop selection.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/22 20:27:27
|
|
|
|
|