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So. We all know that codex books are returning. But, what does it mean for the imperial guard? So, put your hopes, dreams and memes in here!

My hopes:

- Adjust the cost/effectiveness of the Vanquisher Russ. Currently under performing against the cheaper Battle Cannon Russ.

- Adjust the maximum conscripts squad size to 30 (I feel that more than this is far too "spammy".)

- Adjust the points cost of plasma guns to be between the Flamer and melta. 9 points sounds about right. ATM plasma is king, and is spammed as a catch all.

- Give grenade launchers Assault fire mode. Makes them better and actually good at 5pts.

- Lastly, adjust the points of the Chimeras Multilaser. It's paying a premium for being a S6 AP- weapon, while the heavy bolter is 2pts cheaper and far more effective.

Clearly, Conscripts need a point cost reduction.

Vendettas need more Lascannons.

What I hope will happen:

Some units and upgrades becoming cheaper and/oror better (e.g. Vanquisher Russ, Grenade Launchers)
Some units and upgrades receiving some rebalancing (e.g. Conscripts, Plasma Guns)
A lot of general relics and stratagems, so you don't have to use a standard regiment to have a good army

What I think will happen:

No real changes to units
50% of the relics and stratagems only work with CADIA keyword, the other 50% only work with CATACHAN keyword.

What I'm interested to see, and what we probably won't know for a while since the first codices are all some flavor of Marine, is whether other factions will get tactics that apply to more than just infantry and bikes. You're supposed to be able to make a Guard army that's just a bunch of tanks -- if Regiment Tactics end up applying only to infantry and maybe Sentinels, that's just not going to make a big difference for lots of people's lists. Seeing as how Marine tactics apply even to a T8 W14 2+ vehicle, I'm hopeful.

But yeah, I'm expecting basically the same setup as the Marine codex. Some army rules, like Orders. Maybe some rules that you only get in a pure Guard detachment. Then Regiment Tactics that you only get in pure detachments. Mostly generic stratagems with some Regiment-specific ones -- probably ~5 like "if you have 3 Basilisks next to each other..." Warlord Traits, including Regiment-specific ones. Maybe relics, but I could see those getting skipped or replaced with something else. New psychic powers if the Guard codex also includes astropaths and primaris psykers. Finally some tactical objectives to replace the first column of Maelstrom objectives.

Taking this serious (and hoping the GW devs look at these, as sometimes I suspect they start them, as I certainly would if I were a game designer)

My hope is that Rough Riders get some love...I don't have a lot of hope. Here is my complete wish list: (Note, I do not and have never played conscripts, but always a mixed force of infantry and tanks and never use commissars, so take into account my leanings.)

Roughrider command squads and mounts for officersquad/mounts for officers

Roughhrider Heavy weapons teams, as in towed artillery or perhaps wagon's with machine guns etc? (ok, might be reaching here...)

The battle cannon and Demolisher need an upgrade on shots against infantry etc. The math just stinks right now (d6x1/2x2/3=1-2 wounds, bad) Although I do see the balance...if you want anti-infantry buy anti-infantry weapons. But even against another vehicle Demolisher is poor for its cost (d3x1/2x2/3x1d6=3.5 wounds a turn...not good enough, Ill spam 6 lascannons for same price (yes more fragile, but they also have 12 wounds...and do not lose efficiency) Battle cannon has same problem numbers (1d6x1/2x1/2(or2/3)xd3=2-3 wounds a turn) I know, gameplay vs realism...but still, IG tanks shooting other tanks are really weak, can a culture that can manufacture plasma guns and lightning claws please make an AP tank shell and teach a crew to load it...

The anti-air Hydra needs help. (others have mentioned this and suggested Baneblade alternates...not really a solution, the anti-air tank should be better) (And again, against fly -1 hit me 8 shotsx1/2x1/2x1/2x2=2 wounds a turn is really a joke for a weapon supposedly purpose built)

I would like to see the doctrine system come back, and have hopes it will. The choices of carapace, drop assault, camo etc was a cool way to make your army a little more personal.

Can we please make tanks tougher than flyers???? The idea that flyers have more wounds and the same armor save as a leman russ is completely asinine (and don't talk t7 vs t8...apparently the devs thought that was some sort of HUGE difference...in game play, it isn't, modifiers to hit, armor save and total wounds are by far more important, generally in that order) I do not care what physics exist in the world. I know know...we want to sell flyers so made them more powerful...so yes, it won't change, I just couldn't help myself...

I like the IG right now (point costs of even infantry means you can get a lot of models on the table and still spend 2/3 your points on hard hitting stuff. I do not have a lot of hope they will change weapon performances or profiles etc (this would be too hard because it would have an influence system wide so I understand). I just wanted a chance to put my points in, and understand opinions and mileage may vary.
Bah edit, I struggle with list apparently.

You just summoned the "I don't like Rough Riders so nobody else can use them" brigade! You fool!

Rough Rider command squads would be ace.

Agreed that the Leman Russ turrets and the multilaser need looking at. I would add the heavy stubber to the list. Right now the storm bolter is the vastly superior option outside of a very narrow range/mobility band.

Limiting Conscript squad size wouldn't do much, I think- there's not exactly a tax on taking additional units this edition. I would instead attack their synergies. Force them to roll a dice in order to receive an order, for example.

Platoon commanders need to be HQ! Can't bang that drum hard enough.

Wyrdvane Psykers need help. I would remove the 1D6 limitation on their Deny tests. That makes a full choir an exceptional psychic defense unit with acceptable offense, while a depleted unit can still contribute to defense while being quite weak offensively.

A proper return of the Regimental Doctrine system, as well as returning our veteran skills to us, would be much appreciated as well.

I hope the different regiment homeworld rules are as good as the chapter tactics.

edwardmyst wrote:
Taking this serious (and hoping the GW devs look at these, as sometimes I suspect they start them, as I certainly would if I were a game designer)

My hope is that Rough Riders get some love...I don't have a lot of hope. Here is my complete wish list: (Note, I do not and have never played conscripts, but always a mixed force of infantry and tanks and never use commissars, so take into account my leanings.)

Roughrider command squads and mounts for officersquad/mounts for officers

Roughhrider Heavy weapons teams, as in towed artillery or perhaps wagon's with machine guns etc? (ok, might be reaching here...)

The battle cannon and Demolisher need an upgrade on shots against infantry etc. The math just stinks right now (d6x1/2x2/3=1-2 wounds, bad) Although I do see the balance...if you want anti-infantry buy anti-infantry weapons. But even against another vehicle Demolisher is poor for its cost (d3x1/2x2/3x1d6=3.5 wounds a turn...not good enough, Ill spam 6 lascannons for same price (yes more fragile, but they also have 12 wounds...and do not lose efficiency) Battle cannon has same problem numbers (1d6x1/2x1/2(or2/3)xd3=2-3 wounds a turn) I know, gameplay vs realism...but still, IG tanks shooting other tanks are really weak, can a culture that can manufacture plasma guns and lightning claws please make an AP tank shell and teach a crew to load it...

The anti-air Hydra needs help. (others have mentioned this and suggested Baneblade alternates...not really a solution, the anti-air tank should be better) (And again, against fly -1 hit me 8 shotsx1/2x1/2x1/2x2=2 wounds a turn is really a joke for a weapon supposedly purpose built)

I would like to see the doctrine system come back, and have hopes it will. The choices of carapace, drop assault, camo etc was a cool way to make your army a little more personal.

Can we please make tanks tougher than flyers???? The idea that flyers have more wounds and the same armor save as a leman russ is completely asinine (and don't talk t7 vs t8...apparently the devs thought that was some sort of HUGE difference...in game play, it isn't, modifiers to hit, armor save and total wounds are by far more important, generally in that order) I do not care what physics exist in the world. I know know...we want to sell flyers so made them more powerful...so yes, it won't change, I just couldn't help myself...

I like the IG right now (point costs of even infantry means you can get a lot of models on the table and still spend 2/3 your points on hard hitting stuff. I do not have a lot of hope they will change weapon performances or profiles etc (this would be too hard because it would have an influence system wide so I understand). I just wanted a chance to put my points in, and understand opinions and mileage may vary.
Bah edit, I struggle with list apparently.

I will start a new army if they make an all-rough rider force possible, price be damned (although I will still try to find economic ways of fielding them).

While I do like mounted units, and have a large amount of Death Riders myself, I don't see the point in Rough Rider heavy weapons or field artillery. GW likes having the IG be a very mechanised force and has never shown any interest in the kind of emplaced artillery Forge World makes. Neither do mounted heavy weapons seem to make much sense in general, and the niche for slightly faster but probably significantly more expensive HWS is not one I can idenitfy. But hey, if they ever make a new kit, why not, though I guess it would be either shock cavalry or dragoons.

GW dosen't sell Rough Riders anymore, so either they are re-doing the kit or they are removing them entirely and they will not be included in the new codex.
I hope some Russ Variants gets a buff and becomes usable.

Also the new Redemptor Dreadnaught? Absolute beast. Anti Air, Anti Infantry and Anti Tank (if going with the plasma incenerator) for about the same price as a Russ. Okay then...

What about models, I care more for that. New IG models.

I'm betting conscripts can't benifit from orders unless you spend command points. The 50 unit size, points and commissar are fine.

Heavy Stubbers need their cost reduced.

Make all LRBT turrets that currently have D6 shots have 2D3 shots instead.

No one will ever take grenade launchers unless they see a dramatic improvement or can be taken in addition to the other special weapon choice. (Assault or Rapid Fire 2). It could also be interesting that you could take 2 grenade launchers instead of a heavy weapon team. This could potentially allow a squad to take 3 grenade launchers as long as they didn't take a HWS and plasma/melta. It would be fun to run as part of an assaults style army.

broxus wrote:
I'm betting conscripts can't benifit from orders unless you spend command points. The 50 unit size, points and commissar are fine.

Heavy Stubbers need their cost reduced.

No one will ever take grenade launchers unless they see a dramatic improvement or can be taken in addition to the other special weapon choice. (Assault or Rapid Fire 2). It could also be interesting that you could take 2 grenade launchers instead of a heavy weapon team. This could potentially allow a squad to take 3 grenade launchers as long as they didn't take a HWS and plasma/melta. It would be fun to run as part of an assaults style army.

Wouldn't that mean vets would have 5 (6?)?

 NivlacSupreme wrote:

broxus wrote:
I'm betting conscripts can't benifit from orders unless you spend command points. The 50 unit size, points and commissar are fine.

Heavy Stubbers need their cost reduced.

No one will ever take grenade launchers unless they see a dramatic improvement or can be taken in addition to the other special weapon choice. (Assault or Rapid Fire 2). It could also be interesting that you could take 2 grenade launchers instead of a heavy weapon team. This could potentially allow a squad to take 3 grenade launchers as long as they didn't take a HWS and plasma/melta. It would be fun to run as part of an assaults style army.

Wouldn't that mean vets would have 5 (6?)?

Maybe. Better than the zero grenade launchers taken now. Why take vets now anyways when you can take scions? I always thought grenade launchers were "the fluffy" weapon choice. It would be great to see them taken in large numbers.

Well:
>Veterans are reduced in points, gain access to doctrines again (carapace armour, camo gear and demolitions) and are moved to Troops
>LRBT Battlecannon now does 3D6 shots. Or 2D6+4. Or something else with a large number attached.
>Demolisher does 3D3/4D3 shots base.
>Grenade Launchers receive a lot of love.
>Vanquisher cannons become actual tank killing weapons again.
>Colossus Siege Mortar does an obscene number of shots
>The Multilaser becomes an Assault weapon. Why? Because in the fluff it is a suppressive weapon designed to be fired on the move. And only two units mount it anyway.

broxus wrote:
I'm betting conscripts can't benifit from orders unless you spend command points. The 50 unit size, points and commissar are fine.

Heavy Stubbers need their cost reduced.

Make all LRBT turrets that currently have D6 shots have 2D3 shots instead.

No one will ever take grenade launchers unless they see a dramatic improvement or can be taken in addition to the other special weapon choice. (Assault or Rapid Fire 2). It could also be interesting that you could take 2 grenade launchers instead of a heavy weapon team. This could potentially allow a squad to take 3 grenade launchers as long as they didn't take a HWS and plasma/melta. It would be fun to run as part of an assaults style army.

I find it highly unlikely they would move a normally intrinsic ability to a stratagem. If GW even thinks about conscripts (which I highly doubt since they're mostly a mathhammer problem), they probably think its an awesome way to sell IG models.

Grenade launchers are a solution in search of a problem, the same as most assault weapons for IG. Their primary function, advance and fire, is almost never going to be used. I still wouldn't take two instead of a heavy weapon team. I'd rather pay for one more guardsman with a flashlight than buy a grenade launcher. But a mortar team is always more worthwhile than a grenade launcher in my opinion.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Vendettas need more Lascannons.

Replace the sponsons for lascannons, the landing gear too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Think they should double the cost of the hwt. I know guardsmen are cheap, but not "buy one, get one free" cheap.

MrPyro wrote:
Think they should double the cost of the hwt. I know guardsmen are cheap, but not "buy one, get one free" cheap.

The issue with that is that they don't have the survivability of 2 guardsmen. With templates being removed there is no advantage whatsoever to having a 2-wound body over 2 1-wound bodies.

What's more, their cheapness accounts for them being incredibly fragile - with no surplus bodies to protect their heavy weapons.

 argonak wrote:

broxus wrote:
I'm betting conscripts can't benifit from orders unless you spend command points. The 50 unit size, points and commissar are fine.

Heavy Stubbers need their cost reduced.

Make all LRBT turrets that currently have D6 shots have 2D3 shots instead.

No one will ever take grenade launchers unless they see a dramatic improvement or can be taken in addition to the other special weapon choice. (Assault or Rapid Fire 2). It could also be interesting that you could take 2 grenade launchers instead of a heavy weapon team. This could potentially allow a squad to take 3 grenade launchers as long as they didn't take a HWS and plasma/melta. It would be fun to run as part of an assaults style army.

I find it highly unlikely they would move a normally intrinsic ability to a stratagem. If GW even thinks about conscripts (which I highly doubt since they're mostly a mathhammer problem), they probably think its an awesome way to sell IG models.

Grenade launchers are a solution in search of a problem, the same as most assault weapons for IG. Their primary function, advance and fire, is almost never going to be used. I still wouldn't take two instead of a heavy weapon team. I'd rather pay for one more guardsman with a flashlight than buy a grenade launcher. But a mortar team is always more worthwhile than a grenade launcher in my opinion.

I am confident conscripts are getting a nerf of some sort the guys on FLG even hinted at it. Using command points to give them orders could be a possibility.

In regards to grenade launchers they need to be Assault 2 to even have a chance of being considered. If they had that profile and you could take 3 in a squad then you would suddenly see IG armies that maneuver. Infantry squads could be used more aggressively and take the fight to xenos. Currently the heavy weapons teams and lack of viable assault weapon options force static lists.

A lowly employee at a FLG hinted at it and you believed him.....

 NenkotaMoon wrote:
A lowly employee at a FLG hinted at it and you believed him.....

Pretty sure he means Frontline Gaming.

Funny thing about Grenade Launchers: even if they were free, it wouldn't be an incredibly attractive option. The frag grenade is basically a D6 shot lasgun, and if you're using FRFSRF you're usually only losing a little bit of firepower (you actually gain some if you're firing 4 shots) when using a lasgun instead. This basically means that if you're ever considering getting it for the frag grenade, you're wasting a special weapons slot on a weapon you should already have a lot of.

The krak grenade is a bit better, dealing more damage but having less strength and AP when compared with a plasma gun firing standard mode at 12-24". Against T7, the plasma gun is slightly better, against T8, the grenade launcher is a bit ahead. This changes when you supercharge or enter rapid fire range, with the plasma gun coming up way ahead, being even better than two krak grenades.

So the problem with grenade launchers is as said that it's a solution waiting for a problem. If I want to deal with the kind of infantry the frag shot deals with, I already have a hundred lasguns. If I want to deal with vehicles, I will need something better than one krak grenade, or two, or four. In fact, it takes six krak grenades to more or less equal a Lascannon against heavy tanks (although it would be some damage every turn, whereas the lascannon is very hit or miss).

And even if the grenade launcher was free, I would have to pay for a squad to carry it. The SWS could be pretty cool with it having 3 grenade launchers for 24 points, but the infantry squad still only has 1 for 40 points. I could pay 47 for a squad with a plasma gun, which I would probably do. If they changed it to Assault 2/2d6 depending on mode, I might be interested in it. But I'm still not sure if I wanted to use it in an aggressive role, as the Xenos have a tendency to want me closer to them than I want to be.

So if they require command points to issue orders, they would need to do the same to ANY other army that did "moral shenanigans". The sheer "woe is me" over conscripts is getting to the point of stupidity.

- Reduce Chimera's to 65 points or remove the point cost of the Multilaser. The ML is a wasted weapon at this point and for 10 points is laughable.

- Give Valk/Vendetta/Vulture a +1 to hit models with "FLY" rule rule and a -1 BS to hit other models UNLESS hovering. (so stupid that they are paid for out of their ass and hitting on a 5+)

- Improve LRBT Main Weapons (Demlolisher/Battle Cannon) either including them for 0 points or improving their characteristic

- Bring back Penal Legionnares or give us RIP Platoons

 Aenarian wrote:
Funny thing about Grenade Launchers: even if they were free, it wouldn't be an incredibly attractive option.

This is my thought as well. I don't take special weapons because they're cheap, I take them to attack a particular type of target (usually one that their lasgun is ineffective against). And I would much rather pay a few more points for an effective weapon than pay nothing and get a weapon that's almost universally bad.

 Melissia wrote:
I hope the different regiment homeworld rules are as good as the chapter tactics.

This above all other things.

 Melissia wrote:
I hope the different regiment homeworld rules are as good as the chapter tactics.

Top priority, new models. Half the IG regiments are 20+ years old. Its ridiculous. We need new infantry & special characters.

Following that:

Regiment specific doctrines.

Make chimeras a viable choice. Lost rear firing port, which is an insane nerf. -1BS on the move, lost amphibious rule (not that big of deal but a nerf), & point cost skyrocketed. They are terrible for their current point cost. I will never use them this edition. I will use move, move, move instead.

Make grenade launchers better. I'll either be using plasma or lasguns. At GL current cost, they are not worth fielding.

Doctrines, homeworld bonuses, cheaper transports, usable chimera hatch (?), flyers going to rehab, baneblade not getting -1 to hit when moving, better baneblade weapons, a little bit cheaper LR, better vanqui stats, new characters...