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Now that it is out, that I'm building lists and playing, I have to say that I really like Power levels. Its makes pumping out lists so quick.

So to those of you who have a bit of experience with 8th, what are your preferences up to now?

My context: Friendly games. I never participate in tournaments.

I have yet to find a reason not to play power level. As long as you understand how power levels are calculated and don't short change yourself, it's worked fine - haven't had a game yet where it made any kind of difference.

Unless I'm playing in a tournament game, i'll always use power level.

For casual games PL works great, but typically I'm still using points as it is a bit more balanced.

I am perfectly fine with Power Levels for friendlies, but I slightly prefer points even there, and so do the people I play with so we go for points. But if we didn't plan our games way ahead we would most probably use Power if we had to throw together a quick list.

I like both. PL I find is better for a quick game, where you don't want to fiddle around with things (also because GW has shown you can be a few PL over/under, most of the time it's 2-3 in their battle reports, I've seen as much as 4). Points are better when you want something less approximate.

I plan to just have both, so I can ask before a game what's preferred.

I will never touch PL unless im playing with children.

Context: I play competitively.

I'm the only one around hre that asks arounds just to test it out, but noone for now showed any interest

I Play Orks, and power-levels completely changes the balance of an ork army, making Boyz very inefficient while making tankbustas and big guns absolute steals. I don't mind power-levels in principle, but I dislike that my regular army works really poorly when using power-levels, and having a different shooty Ork list that I pull out when not using points just feels really cheesy. I don't know if PLs works better for other factions though.

Both depending on context and who I'm playing.

I see everyone approaching Power Level as an easier points system though, which isn't really what it's for. I mean, you can use it like that certainly. But it seems to be mostly for open play - you throw stuff down on the table and using PL you can quickly determine approximately who out-powers who so you figure out who gets what victory conditions etc.

We have a mix at our club.
Some prefer PL, others, points.
It is making match-ups difficult.

I prefer points, personally. With power levels it's pretty easy for things to get real uneven, real fast, and aren't always a good reflection of what is actually on the table.

Not that points are perfect, but they're better.

PL is so much faster in order to build lists for friendly PUGs.

Points are mired in minutia and better used for more "official" settings. It's assumed if you're playing points now, you are trying to squeeze X into Y build and need the flexibility to do so. PL is more of a "I have X, lets play" - which is far closer to what I enjoy.

PL makes me wonder if I'm acting in poor faith; Thousand Sons has a lot of very expensive upgrades that I could potentially announce for in a PL game that would drastically increase my army's potency. Even in very casual games I prefer to use points just so there's no mistake of cheesing the system.

Points.

I wonder if a points vs. PL game would work? Say, just divide your points value by 20 to get PL. If it's possible, that's what I would do against people that really must have PL.

PL seems to be an easy way to tailor your 'list'.

I don't generally like PLs. My play style puts quantity over quality (i.e. more dudes with less upgrades) and that doesn't work w/ PLs where it's better to take every upgrade you can. Also, they aren't updating PLs, but points have already had several meaningful changes to them.

I mostly play with a handful of more or less close friends, and our games are what I would consider casual/semi-competitive.

Our goal is both to win, and that both players should have a good time.

Seems like PL is perfect for us?
Not really, as no one of us wants to touch PL even with a ten foot pole.
Writing a list with points doesn't take long (especially not if you've written down the pointscosts in the unit-entries with a pencil), and also makes listbuilding more fun since you actually have to think about what you want to bring, and how you're gonna spend those last X points.

Add the fact that points eliminates the chance of one army technically having an advantage over the other (I've seen 50 PL-lists who differed with several hundred points if calculated with points instead of PL) and we see no real reason to touch PL.

I can understand people who use PL to get a quick pickup-game started, but that's also the only reason I see with using PL.

 ncshooter426 wrote:
PL is so much faster in order to build lists for friendly PUGs.

Points are mired in minutia and better used for more "official" settings. It's assumed if you're playing points now, you are trying to squeeze X into Y build and need the flexibility to do so. PL is more of a "I have X, lets play" - which is far closer to what I enjoy.

I have found the exact opposite to be true:

Folks who can't afford the cost of their army + upgrades in Points, request to use PL instead.

Points for me

making a list and doing basic math isnt hard.

And here we see more of the subtle insults Well done guys.

Points always.

I still have the firm belief that Power was only ever supposed to be used for new players so they could play quick games of WYSIWYG without having to go through all of the points for each gun. No one I know plays Power games and myself and a few of my veteran friends refuse to play Power level games against anyone but brand new players.

Power Levels all the way. The new method of calculating points is pure cancer.

Power level only works iff you play WYSIWYG and have a compatible attitude.

Some units get left behind in power level.

Death Company, for instance. Because they can wield some pretty expensive wargear, their power level is insanely high, yet no one in their right mind is going to throw 25 point thunder hammers on an entire squad of DC.

Paladins are 9 power level for 3. You just can't field them, because you're "paying" for the Daemon Hammers you're not using, and really wouldn't use anyway, save on the Paragon.

Just a couple examples. But again, this doesn't matter if you have an attitude compatible with power levels.

I like them for casual fun times.

"Let's have an HQ rumble! nothing over PL 20."
"Let's play a game with only TAC marines."
"Let's have a free for all game with a bunch of people."

 Marmatag wrote:
Power level only works iff you play WYSIWYG and have a compatible attitude.

Some units get left behind in power level.

Death Company, for instance. Because they can wield some pretty expensive wargear, their power level is insanely high, yet no one in their right mind is going to throw 25 point thunder hammers on an entire squad of DC.

Paladins are 9 power level for 3. You just can't field them, because you're "paying" for the Daemon Hammers you're not using, and really wouldn't use anyway, save on the Paragon.

Just a couple examples. But again, this doesn't matter if you have an attitude compatible with power levels.

I like them for casual fun times.

"Let's have an HQ rumble! nothing over PL 20."
"Let's play a game with only TAC marines."
"Let's have a free for all game with a bunch of people."

Yup compatible attitude is what is required (more than WYSIWYG), if you try to game power levels it gets dumb fast (WYSIWYG or not). It basically only works if you bring armies similar to what you would bring in points, but just don't want to care about doing the math.

Power Level is balanced by itself, but it creates a very different game than points.

The only units you'll see in Power Level games are ones where every model can take massive upgrades like Vanguard Veterans or Termagants. Simpler units cannot compete in a Power Level game.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Power Level is balanced by itself, but it creates a very different game than points.

The only units you'll see in Power Level games are ones where every model can take massive upgrades like Vanguard Veterans or Termagants. Simpler units cannot compete in a Power Level game.

This gets back to compatible attitude, I think.

If you're trying to make a competitive list, power level doesn't work.

If you're trying to ask the question, "what would make an interesting game," power level is just fine.

I'm casual and pl screws me over I get less than I do using points, I've got even less interest now than before release.

For the first couple games I played, I did PL because the rest of the group wanted to try it out, and I figured I'd go along with it, but on one of the games, I found that there was quite a split, maybe 10% or so, in point difference between the two of us. I could have had another hellhound for that gap.

Now I play strictly points. If I'm going to muster the effort, I'd like to at least be able to pretend it's balanced.

I do like power level as a basic structure for "weird" games. Character battles, special events, "Let's try something strange out" etc. basically as some sort of rough guideline where otherwise there would be none. Points are more fine-grained and give a closer estimation to "balance" but that's not always what you want, you just need some basic restrictions. So instead of saying let's each take 6 units, you can say X PL.