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Hello all, havent played WH40k since 5th ed, and the newest edition prompted me to get back into it. I am in the process of remodelling a bunch of my SW's, and wanted to get prospective feedback on a 2k point list that I put together. Here she is:

HQ
Arjac Rockfist: 140
WGBL on Thunderwolf, TH/SS: 137

Elites
5xWG in TDA, 5xTH/SS: 280
Dreadnought, 2xTwin Autocannon: 136
Dreadnought, 2xTwin Autocannon: 136

Troops
6xGH Pack, 5xCS and boltguns, 1xplasma gun: 97
6xGH Pack, 5xCS and boltguns, 1xplasma gun: 97
6xGH Pack, 5xCS and boltguns, 1xflamer: 94

Dedicated transport
Rhino, Storm Bolter: 72
Rhino, Storm Bolter: 72
Rhino, Storm Bolter: 72

Fast attack
6xTWC, 1xFrost Sword/SS 1xFrost Axe/SS 1xCS/SS 3xCS/BP: 332

Heavy Support:
LR Redeemer, Twin-assault cannon 2xflamestorm cannons Storm Bolter: 339

Total: 2003 points

Strategy
Make the enemy choose between shooting the TWC and the LR with all the termies inside. Claim objectives with grey hunters and provide fire support with the dreadnoughts. I have plenty of other models to make many more GH's, two plus packs of long fangs, more terminators and a bunch of jump packs. One option I was considering was take long fangs instead of the dreadnoughts and convert some rhinos torazorbacks. Looking for any input before I fknish assembling.

The LR is way too expensive for what it does. I like the crusader much more. Razorbacks with assault cannons are the current hotness and provide some good anti-horde capability. Long fangs are great with their built in reroll of ones to hit. They don't need any babysitting from characters. Personally, I am not excited about TWC. They aren't total garbage but I prefer wolf guard bikers over cavalry. The rest of the list looks okay.

Personally I like TWC for fluff and They still are very serviceable units. I would run bikers but I have a good number of TWC so I don't really want to replace them.

In terms of dropping the LR from the list that would free up some room to take razorbacks, a squad of long fangs and maybe a few more GH's. That would require deep striking the termies/Arjac which I am not totally against.

I've only played 2 new edition games so far, but the Land Raiders are super tough now. I favor the Crusader also on paper, but the lascannon one I faced did tons of damage against my Stormwolf. The range is great and it just parked on an objective.

I think your list here is pretty dang solid, though Razorbacks for 6 GHs is a good idea if you can find the points.

I might drop a Dreadnought in favor of a biker Wolf Priest. Those are super good behind a unit of TWC, which do mop up in combat, and are tough to remove with all storm shields. Next time I'll run Wulfen though, I think they might do even better.

Changing from a LRR to a LRC would save 52 points, which is a dramatic savings. It would also boost the anti-horde capacity at range. Plus once it has divulged its lethal contents or Arjac and crew, it would spit out 24 hurricane bolter shots.

Running a wolf priest behind the TWC and WBGL on the Thunderwolf would turn them from scary to downright devastating in CC. Not too sure about dropping the dread for it though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Take 2:

HQ
Arjac Rockfist: 140
WGBL on Thunderwolf, TH/SS: 137
Wolf Priest with Jump Pack 112

Elites
5xWG in TDA, 5xTH/SS: 280
Dreadnought, 2xTwin Autocannon: 136

Troops
6xGH Pack, 5xCS and boltguns, 1xplasma gun: 97
6xGH Pack, 5xCS and boltguns, 1xplasma gun: 97
6xGH Pack, 5xCS and boltguns, 1xflamer: 94

Dedicated transport
Rhino, Storm Bolter: 72
Rhino, Storm Bolter: 72
Razorback, Twin-Assault cannon Storm Bolter: 102

Fast attack
6xTWC, 1xFrost Sword/SS 1xFrost Axe/SS 1xCS/SS 3xCS/BP: 332

Heavy Support:
LR Crusader, Twin-Assault cannon 2xHurricane bolter, Storm Bolter: 285

Total: 1959 points

Another option with that configuration above would be taking Harald deathwolf instead of the WGBL. The priest with the jump pack behind him and 6 TWC would be terrifying.

Right now you're showing at 1959 - You've got enough points to switch another Rhino to an Assault Cannon Razorback, which you should absolutely do. Other than that, list looks really solid. I prefer my bikers over TWC (Mainly because I hate TWC models and Wulfen), but it's a good list. You've got two really hard-hitting units between the TWC and the WG Terminators rolling with Arjac.

My only concern with running the wolf priest over the sec Nd dread would be the loss of fire support. Is the healing of the priest and rerolls really worth sacrificing 8 autocannon shots? One of the other things I really like about this list so far is the mobility, as everyone is either mechanized ir cavalry.

Unit Name Unit Type Number of Units Wargear Notes Points
Arjac Rockfist HQ 1 Standard 140
WGBL on Thunderwolf HQ 1 TH/SS 137

WG Termies Elites 5 5xTH/SS 280

Grey Hunter Squad Troops 6 All with BG/CS and 1 plasma gun 97
Grey Hunter Squad Troops 6 All with BG/CS and 1 plasma gun 97
Grey Hunter Squad Troops 6 All with BG/CS and 1 flamer 93

Razorback Transport 1 "Twin-assault cannon, Storm Bolter" 102
Razorback Transport 1 "Twin-assault cannon, Storm Bolter" 102
Razorback Transport 1 "Twin-assault cannon, Storm Bolter" 102

Thunderwolf Cavalry Fast Attk. 5 5xSS 1xTH 1XFS 3xCS 327

Land Raider Crusader Hvy. Sprt. 1 "Twin-assault cannon, 2xHurricane Bolter, Storm Bolter" 285
Long Fangs Hvy. Sprt. 5 2xPlasma Cannon 2xLascannon 167

1929

took another stab at a list, not sure if its any better though. Still some decent points on the table.

I find that a Multi-melta is not a bad choice for the LRC, because you want to be close to your enemies anyway. You'll miss sometimes but it can do some serious damage.

Also I'd take WGPLs with appropriate combi-weapons for your GH packs to boost their firepower and leadership.

You'll land pretty close to 2000 with those changes.

Thunderwolves with claw and shield is the way to go. Near a wolf lord on thunderwolf that has them re-rolling 1's to hit and re-rolling wounds. At s5 they are wounding most things pretty well and makes them multipurpose.

I'd suggest splitting them into two squads of 3, just to spread the hurt a bit.

Drop the thunderhammer from the wolf lord and switch it for a tempestus hammer. A few more points, but no -1 to hit!

I'd suggest dropping Arjac for Njal in terminator armour. He can hold his own in combat and will let you fling out smites and his horrible 2d6-movement = mortal wounds power. That power is a squad killer.

I'd suggest dropping the long fangs for a predator. Slightly less firepower, but more wounds, higher toughness, same save...

Kingzerno wrote:

Drop the thunderhammer from the wolf lord and switch it for a tempestus hammer. A few more points, but no -1 to hit!

Tempest Hammer was FAQ'd to -1 to hit. More importantly you cannot take a Tempest Hammer outside of Iron Priests.

IMHO the long fangs are more durable than the predator which is high priority target and tipycally screwed turn 1. The anti infantry weapons shouldn't be in range to target the long fangs but the TWC and terminator will attract light firepower anyway. Longs fangs are ignored most of the times in the first 1-2 turns, and with the re-rolls they're more killy than a predator. They will likely get a better save too, since putting 5-6 dudes in cover is easier than obscuring a tank.

 Weazel wrote:

Kingzerno wrote:

Drop the thunderhammer from the wolf lord and switch it for a tempestus hammer. A few more points, but no -1 to hit!

Tempest Hammer was FAQ'd to -1 to hit. More importantly you cannot take a Tempest Hammer outside of Iron Priests.

SOAB...well that sucks. Did they FAQ who can take it as well? Because if memory serves it appears in the melee weapon list...

Kingzerno wrote:

 Weazel wrote:

Kingzerno wrote:

Drop the thunderhammer from the wolf lord and switch it for a tempestus hammer. A few more points, but no -1 to hit!

Tempest Hammer was FAQ'd to -1 to hit. More importantly you cannot take a Tempest Hammer outside of Iron Priests.

SOAB...well that sucks. Did they FAQ who can take it as well? Because if memory serves it appears in the melee weapon list...

It does not. Only place you can find it is under Iron Priest.

I dislike this afternoon...this was not news I wanted

Much to consider. Another option with the WGBL on TW would be dropping the TH/SS for a pair of wolf claws, the only thing really sacrificed is the 3+ vs 4+ invuln and the lesser strength. Would be cheaper points wise and add an attack. I would consider a predator but I only have three rhino chassis at the moment and I would like to use them all as transports. I think that adding Njal would help make this more of a TAC by adding some psychic defense boosts and powers. Arjac and company busting out of a LR is very fluffy in a way I like though.

CptRumHam wrote:
Much to consider. Another option with the WGBL on TW would be dropping the TH/SS for a pair of wolf claws, the only thing really sacrificed is the 3+ vs 4+ invuln and the lesser strength. Would be cheaper points wise and add an attack. I would consider a predator but I only have three rhino chassis at the moment and I would like to use them all as transports. I think that adding Njal would help make this more of a TAC by adding some psychic defense boosts and powers. Arjac and company busting out of a LR is very fluffy in a way I like though.

WGBL don't come with a 4++ save, so you'll need to upgrade to a Wolf Lord and the points actually increase a little if you go Wolf Claws.

I think I may have finally come up with something I can be happy with. Swapped out the WGBL for Harald Deathwolf, in order to add a little better synergy with all the TWC I plan to run. Also removed a lot of power weapons (and points) from the TWC unit in order to focus them more on anti-infantry., which they seem to be best suited to in 8th. Added a combi-melta to a GH squad for that little extra kick. The long fang pack got bumped up to 6 units, three Plasma cannons which are statistically better than lascannons when rerolling and cost less, one ML for mixed fire and a heavy bolter for anti-horde and wound allocation.

All in all I think this list would do fairly well against most opponents expect for psyker heavy armies. The razorback/assault cannon spam pumps out a huge amount of fire, as does the LRC for anti-horde purposes. The TWC is super mobile, will cut through infantry like crazy and have a decent chance against light vehicles. The long fangs provide a heavy punch against armor, which is complimented by the heavy punch of Arjac and crew with 6xTH/s. Another possible fear would be that one pack of long fangs is simply not enough heavy firepower at range to take down armor heavy lists.

The List:

HQ
Harald Deathwolf 188
Arjac Rockfist 140

Elites
WG Terminators 5xTH/SS 280

Troops
Grey Hunter Squad 5xBG/CS, 1xPG/CS 97
Grey Hunter Squad 5xBG/CS, 1xPG/CS 97
Grey Hunter Squad 1xWGPL with Combi-melta/CS, 4xBG/CS, 1xFlamer/CS 113

Transports
Razorback Twin Assault-cannon, storm bolter 102
Razorback Twin Assault-cannon, storm bolter 102
Razorback Twin Assault-cannon, storm bolter 102

Fast Attack
Thunderwolf Cavalry 1xFrost Axe/BP 2xCS/SS 3xCS/BP 310

Heavy Support
Land Raider Crusader Twin Assault-cannon, 2xHurricane bolter, storm bolter 285
Long Fangs 1xLFPL BG/CS 3xPlasma Cannon 1xMissile Launcher 1xHeavy Bolter

Total: 2004

Again I would advocate switching arjac for njal just to give you some psychic punch.

And you're still over 2000 points, so wouldn't be a valid list for 2k games unless your opponent is willing to let you snatch a few extra points.

Swapping Njal for Arjac would probably make sense, and would make this list more competative as a whole. It hurts missing out on the auras arjac gives kinda sucks but two psychic powes/nightwing could make up for ir. Also saves two points which helps. Getting under 2k after that would be as simple as switching the frost axe for a frost sword on the TWC unit. Those two details aside, would this list he reasonably competative at like local gaming stores/somewhat casual games?

I'd see the list putting up a pretty good fight. You're biggest concern will be horde armies because of your low body count, so maneuvering for position will be important.

9 drops gives you a good chance of going first. So you should be hitting a charge early with the TWC.

Njal and the terminators will be dependent on opposition deployment and movement. Given the equipping with TH they'll likely be armour hunting, which is a good way to make their points.

The raider you may have to use to tie assault squads up, so it may become less shooty and more of a battering ram unless you are really careful with your movement.

Personally I'd like to see a little bit more back up for the TWC - like another squad of TWC or a squad of bikers with wolf claws and SS. Splitting them into 2 squads of 3 might even work better, it'll give you more maneuverability.

Looking at the list it's going to work something like this (I assume, correct me if wrong):

Njal + Termies - deepstrike behind enemy lines, target characters and armour

Grey hunters - hop out at objectives and try to camp them

TWC + Harold - Make a big old mess of any threats.

Long fangs - target armour

Land raider - try to whittle down blocks of infantry

Absolutely not - Arjac makes WG Terminators excellent. If you're running them, he's practically an auto-include for the buffs he confers to them. Plus Njal is going to cost you another 27ish points if you run him in terminator armor, which you're already incredibly tight on costs. Skip the psyker, you don't need him.

And your list will actually be okay against hordes. Not great, but okay. 3 Razorbacks with Twin Assault Cannons and the LRC will help in that department immensely.

So I'm looking at your list and when you deploy, it's almost all multi-wound models. The only single-wound models are the long fangs, and so they'll be drawing a lot of small arms fire. You don't want that. I don't usually recommend dreadnoughts, but you may want to consider a dreadnought variant. Looking at your original list, I want to dissuade you from taking autocannons - they're not very effective. I recommend lascannons instead. Your list will have problems with flyers.

I just realized I was looking at Njal's cost in regular, not TDA so I will be sticking with Arjac. He's just too good not to use when running WG Terminators.

As for strategy, that is a pretty spot on assessment. I see the land raider filling two roles however in terms of its deployment. Against lists that are less shooting focused I could see marching Arjac and company up the field in it and directly delivering death to whoever is in its way. If the opponent fields a lot of anti armor it could be used to grab objectives, or distract anti-armor fire while the terminators all deep strike to take out the big stuff.

I could easily split the two units of TWC, one SS in each to tank wounds. Since they are bubble wrapping Harald who gives the morale boost to TWC units the smaller unit count isn't as concerning. Dropping the combi-melta from the GH pack would let me put a power weapon in each squad and keep me under 2000.

Ultimately I think im going to scale the collection up to Harald's full great company, but thats far down the road as I need to get this list up and running first.

Celerior wrote:
So I'm looking at your list and when you deploy, it's almost all multi-wound models. The only single-wound models are the long fangs, and so they'll be drawing a lot of small arms fire. You don't want that. I don't usually recommend dreadnoughts, but you may want to consider a dreadnought variant. Looking at your original list, I want to dissuade you from taking autocannons - they're not very effective. I recommend lascannons instead. Your list will have problems with flyers.

I do agree that the long fangs would be the clear choice off deployment, as everyone else is high wound or in armor. It could be a problem because I would lose a large percentage of my high strength firepower. I have a few dreadnought models and could deploy one with a missile launcher and TL lascannon. It would be tougher than the long fangs but be putting out slightly less punch. Something to consider if I find the long fangs keep getting recked.

I'd advocate trying to get storm shields on all the wolves. It just makes them so much more survivable and immediately nullifies all of your opponents special weapons....

I could see finding the points for two more shields (drop HB long fang and combi-melta) but I can't see getting all six shields. Dropping the fangs for a drednought with TL lascannon and a ML would let me run 6 shields, but I'd lose out on a plasma cannon and heavy bokter's firepower.

The shields will prove their worth far more than any heavy bolter.

Say you hit a squad with power swords. Your wolves are suddenly on 6+ saves. Not good. They are also likely to be the target for heavy weapons fire and it only takes a couple of lascannons to ruin your day.

Reworked to have shields on all the TWC units, and dropped the long fangs for a shooty dread (also willing to consider an twin-autocannon instead of the ML). Now when I deploy everything is multi wound and hard to deal with. I'm almost starting to wonder if the LRC has a place in this list. I can always deep strike the termies and its eating a lot of points. Instead of the LRC and dread I could run two predators with lascannon side sponsons and autocannon main gun. Thats a lot of dakka, and would leave space for some upgrades on other units.

HQ
Harald Deathwolf 188
Arjac Rockfist 140

Elites
WG Terminators 5xTH/SS 280
Dreadnought Twin-lascannon and Missile Launcher 145

Troops
Grey Hunter Squad 5xBG/CS, 1xPG/CS 97
Grey Hunter Squad 5xBG/CS, 1xPG/CS 97
Grey Hunter Squad 5xBG/CS, 1xFlamer/CS 94

Transports
Razorback Twin Assault-cannon, storm bolter 102
Razorback Twin Assault-cannon, storm bolter 102
Razorback Twin Assault-cannon, storm bolter 102

Fast Attack
Thunderwolf Cavalry 1xFS/SS 2xCS/SS
Thunderwolf Cavalry 3xCS/SS

Heavy Support
Land Raider Crusader Twin Assault-cannon, 2xHurricane bolter, storm bolter 285


Total: 1999

I play with 3 razorbacks full of GH, TWC+lord, arjac+terminators too.

I'd deepstrike the terminators and ditch the dread. Add 5-6 long fangs with lascannons instead, they will be in cover the entire game gaining a 2+ save.

Thunder hammer on the TWC pack leader.

The flamer is a waste of points, give all your GH squads a plasma gun.

I tipycally equip 1-2 terminators with cheap wargear to soak mortal wounds or non AP shots, against those kind of hits the storm shield is wasted.

Wolf guard bikers can play the anti-infantry role that had the crusader.