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So, in short, the mission this week is:

Imperium goes first unless chaos seizes
1VP per unit destroyed, +1VP if the unit that did the destroying had an unmodified save of 3+ or 2+
Chaos gets +1VP if not tabled at the end of the game.

So basically, if you're playing Power Armor of any kind, you score double points on top of the natural advantage that elite armies get in the "too stupid to math" version of kill points.

How is this mission supposed to be enjoyable for anyone? GW has now given blatant advantages to their favorites (space marines) for two weeks now, are we really OK with this? And before you start with "no they didn't!" remember that last week any specifically Space Marine unit scored double points for painting, everyone else had to paint up a whole start collecting set.

GW doesn't actually want to have a campaign where the players can affect the fluff. Again, they just want to provide their eternally favored sons with an official way to roleplay out the bolterporn they put out.

the_scotsman wrote:
So, in short, the mission this week is:

Imperium goes first unless chaos seizes
1VP per unit destroyed, +1VP if the unit that did the destroying had an unmodified save of 3+ or 2+
Chaos gets +1VP if not tabled at the end of the game.

So basically, if you're playing Power Armor of any kind, you score double points on top of the natural advantage that elite armies get in the "too stupid to math" version of kill points.

How is this mission supposed to be enjoyable for anyone? GW has now given blatant advantages to their favorites (space marines) for two weeks now, are we really OK with this? And before you start with "no they didn't!" remember that last week any specifically Space Marine unit scored double points for painting, everyone else had to paint up a whole start collecting set.

GW doesn't actually want to have a campaign where the players can affect the fluff. Again, they just want to provide their eternally favored sons with an official way to roleplay out the bolterporn they put out.

I thought that was an advantage to Chaos?

At the very least, it's "Don't bring Guard to this game." I would have said otherwise if you had to blow up 3+ and 2+ units, but you have to use 2+ and 3+ units to kill the enemy.


For this mission at least, it looks like the VP buff affects both Chaos and Space Marines equally, but penalizes Guard, Orks, Eldar, and Tyranids for trying to interfere.

Yeah, these look to be benefiting both SM and CSM armies, mainly discouraging demons and the wider imperium.

I'd say the fact we will have two weeks where the SM have a codex and CSM don't is going to have a larger impact than these particular rules.

the_scotsman wrote:
So, in short, the mission this week is:

Imperium goes first unless chaos seizes
1VP per unit destroyed, +1VP if the unit that did the destroying had an unmodified save of 3+ or 2+
Chaos gets +1VP if not tabled at the end of the game.

So basically, if you're playing Power Armor of any kind, you score double points on top of the natural advantage that elite armies get in the "too stupid to math" version of kill points.

How is this mission supposed to be enjoyable for anyone? GW has now given blatant advantages to their favorites (space marines) for two weeks now, are we really OK with this? And before you start with "no they didn't!" remember that last week any specifically Space Marine unit scored double points for painting, everyone else had to paint up a whole start collecting set.

GW doesn't actually want to have a campaign where the players can affect the fluff. Again, they just want to provide their eternally favored sons with an official way to roleplay out the bolterporn they put out.

Bring Knights or Baneblades. Now they can only get up to 6 kill points even if they're scoring double, and you're scoring double on all your kill points.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
So, in short, the mission this week is:

Imperium goes first unless chaos seizes
1VP per unit destroyed, +1VP if the unit that did the destroying had an unmodified save of 3+ or 2+
Chaos gets +1VP if not tabled at the end of the game.

So basically, if you're playing Power Armor of any kind, you score double points on top of the natural advantage that elite armies get in the "too stupid to math" version of kill points.

How is this mission supposed to be enjoyable for anyone? GW has now given blatant advantages to their favorites (space marines) for two weeks now, are we really OK with this? And before you start with "no they didn't!" remember that last week any specifically Space Marine unit scored double points for painting, everyone else had to paint up a whole start collecting set.

GW doesn't actually want to have a campaign where the players can affect the fluff. Again, they just want to provide their eternally favored sons with an official way to roleplay out the bolterporn they put out.

I thought that was an advantage to Chaos?

At the very least, it's "Don't bring Guard to this game." I would have said otherwise if you had to blow up 3+ and 2+ units, but you have to use 2+ and 3+ units to kill the enemy.

It's an advantage to power armor, which is the basis of 7 imperial factions and 3 non-imperial factions.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
So, in short, the mission this week is:

Imperium goes first unless chaos seizes
1VP per unit destroyed, +1VP if the unit that did the destroying had an unmodified save of 3+ or 2+
Chaos gets +1VP if not tabled at the end of the game.

So basically, if you're playing Power Armor of any kind, you score double points on top of the natural advantage that elite armies get in the "too stupid to math" version of kill points.

How is this mission supposed to be enjoyable for anyone? GW has now given blatant advantages to their favorites (space marines) for two weeks now, are we really OK with this? And before you start with "no they didn't!" remember that last week any specifically Space Marine unit scored double points for painting, everyone else had to paint up a whole start collecting set.

GW doesn't actually want to have a campaign where the players can affect the fluff. Again, they just want to provide their eternally favored sons with an official way to roleplay out the bolterporn they put out.

I thought that was an advantage to Chaos?

At the very least, it's "Don't bring Guard to this game." I would have said otherwise if you had to blow up 3+ and 2+ units, but you have to use 2+ and 3+ units to kill the enemy.

It's an advantage to power armor, which is the basis of 7 imperial factions and 3 non-imperial factions.

By that logic, any mission favors the Imperium, because literally half the factions in the game are Imperium.

I'm not sure if you're upset about Chaos being slighted or Tyranids being slighted. Tyranids, Orks, and Eldar are definitely slighted, same for the Admech, Guard, Daemons, and Renegades. Chaos is certainly not slighted, and all the Xenos were already slighted by the very nature of the campaign ignoring them.

In fact, it's basically a straight-up balanced Kill Points vs. Kill Points game, with a tie being a Chaos win, as long as it's Space Marines on the opposing team.

...2+ and 3+ up armor saves huh? I wonder where I'll get those...

I don`t think the mission is that bad, but I`m definitely salty about how they`ve handled this whole campaign. Marines get a new codex 2 weeks before chaos, plus a ton of new model releases, when painting a unit nets you a point gives a decent advantage to the imperium. Combine that with the fact that over half the armies of the game are imperial, and that roughly half of xenos players will be taking points from chaos, and I`m surprised chaos has done as well as they have.

The GW facebook page certainly doesn`t help, when people point out that marines have a codex and chaos won`t until next week and they reply sarcastically as if it won`t make a single bit of difference. It would be nice if they would at least acknowledge that it could and probably will make a difference.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
...
I'm not sure if you're upset about Chaos being slighted or Tyranids being slighted. Tyranids, Orks, and Eldar are definitely slighted, same for the Admech, Guard, Daemons, and Renegades. Chaos is certainly not slighted, and all the Xenos were already slighted by the very nature of the campaign ignoring them.

In fact, it's basically a straight-up balanced Kill Points vs. Kill Points game, with a tie being a Chaos win, as long as it's Space Marines on the opposing team.

What about necrons?


We get slighted so much we don't even get included in the list of slights...

Well at least the Space Marine codex didn't improve their lot in 8th edition. Still bottom of the barrel. Did you see where Ultramarines landed on the BAO rankings? Pretty abysmal for a faction that JUST got its codex, and no one else has one..

GimbleMuggernaught wrote:I don`t think the mission is that bad, but I`m definitely salty about how they`ve handled this whole campaign. Marines get a new codex 2 weeks before chaos, plus a ton of new model releases, when painting a unit nets you a point gives a decent advantage to the imperium. Combine that with the fact that over half the armies of the game are imperial, and that roughly half of xenos players will be taking points from chaos, and I`m surprised chaos has done as well as they have.

The GW facebook page certainly doesn`t help, when people point out that marines have a codex and chaos won`t until next week and they reply sarcastically as if it won`t make a single bit of difference. It would be nice if they would at least acknowledge that it could and probably will make a difference.

It doesn't say you have to be Space Marines. You just have to add a new, painted model of that unit type to your army.

silentone2k wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
...
I'm not sure if you're upset about Chaos being slighted or Tyranids being slighted. Tyranids, Orks, and Eldar are definitely slighted, same for the Admech, Guard, Daemons, and Renegades. Chaos is certainly not slighted, and all the Xenos were already slighted by the very nature of the campaign ignoring them.

In fact, it's basically a straight-up balanced Kill Points vs. Kill Points game, with a tie being a Chaos win, as long as it's Space Marines on the opposing team.

What about necrons?


We get slighted so much we don't even get included in the list of slights...

It wasn't a comprehensive list. I didn't mention Tau or Dark Eldar either.

 Marmatag wrote:
Well at least the Space Marine codex didn't improve their lot in 8th edition. Still bottom of the barrel. Did you see where Ultramarines landed on the BAO rankings? Pretty abysmal for a faction that JUST got its codex, and no one else has one..

Weren't those results pre codex?

The codex kind of dropped in the middle of it IIRC, but that means that effectively, yes, it's pre-codex.

Because nobody is going to change the rules in the middle of a tournament when the lists are already built.

To tell you the truth I am very salty about the Konor campaign as well as the whole thing ids hideously imbalanced in favour of the ground units.
I mean, what about the Battlefleets? The ships in space? We dont even get a mention - in fact there has been no advertising at all about our side of things! Before you complain about one side or the other having the advantage on the ground tnink about we poor chumps in space who do not even know what a 3+ armour is! Think about all of us with our fleets held ready, prepared to push into the breach and perform the run only to find that GW has completely overlooked our armies in favour of the ground pounders!

Ah go play X-wing you

This mission is very imbalanced. But mostly because of the attacker/defender split.

In this case, the defender needs to stay in their deployment zone, but the attacker doesnt have to invade.

Chaos has a lot of good close combat units, not so many shooting units. But the imperial player could take nothing but long range weaponry and artillery and do just fine. The chaos player will be forced to leave their deployment zone to try and kill stuff, but will then have to figure out how to get back in their zone by the end of the game.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

GimbleMuggernaught wrote:I don`t think the mission is that bad, but I`m definitely salty about how they`ve handled this whole campaign. Marines get a new codex 2 weeks before chaos, plus a ton of new model releases, when painting a unit nets you a point gives a decent advantage to the imperium. Combine that with the fact that over half the armies of the game are imperial, and that roughly half of xenos players will be taking points from chaos, and I`m surprised chaos has done as well as they have.

The GW facebook page certainly doesn`t help, when people point out that marines have a codex and chaos won`t until next week and they reply sarcastically as if it won`t make a single bit of difference. It would be nice if they would at least acknowledge that it could and probably will make a difference.

It doesn't say you have to be Space Marines. You just have to add a new, painted model of that unit type to your army.

Yeah, I realize that any army can paint up a unit, but Imperium got a whole bunch of new releases in the form of primaris marines week one, so there were probably plenty of people going out and buying them and painting them up. Lots of people get more excited about painting sexy new models than those ones they've had sitting in their closet for months or years. Obviously its not a massive imbalance or anything, but when you have lots of stuff contributing, you get a bunch of smaller factors that add up to a fairly significant imperial advantage.

Also gives boosts for using heavy tanks to kill things, and encourages elites like meganobz and striking scorpions.

 Melissia wrote:
Also gives boosts for using heavy tanks to kill things, and encourages elites like meganobz and striking scorpions.

Meganobz are basically shelved this edition unless our codex significantly buffs them or reduces cost.

GimbleMuggernaught wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

GimbleMuggernaught wrote:I don`t think the mission is that bad, but I`m definitely salty about how they`ve handled this whole campaign. Marines get a new codex 2 weeks before chaos, plus a ton of new model releases, when painting a unit nets you a point gives a decent advantage to the imperium. Combine that with the fact that over half the armies of the game are imperial, and that roughly half of xenos players will be taking points from chaos, and I`m surprised chaos has done as well as they have.

The GW facebook page certainly doesn`t help, when people point out that marines have a codex and chaos won`t until next week and they reply sarcastically as if it won`t make a single bit of difference. It would be nice if they would at least acknowledge that it could and probably will make a difference.

It doesn't say you have to be Space Marines. You just have to add a new, painted model of that unit type to your army.

Yeah, I realize that any army can paint up a unit, but Imperium got a whole bunch of new releases in the form of primaris marines week one, so there were probably plenty of people going out and buying them and painting them up. Lots of people get more excited about painting sexy new models than those ones they've had sitting in their closet for months or years. Obviously its not a massive imbalance or anything, but when you have lots of stuff contributing, you get a bunch of smaller factors that add up to a fairly significant imperial advantage.

Didn't Chaos get a bunch of Death Guard stuff? I heard the DG stuff was pretty bad, though, but I'm also not seeing a whole lot of Primaris stuff on the table either. There is one guy running Primaris at league, and he's been losing badly.

Assuming the xenos players split 50/50 their wins, I do see how the Imperium has an advantage through virtue of their being way more Imperial players out there. Imperial v. Imperial will always result in a point for the Imperium, and Imperial v. Xeno has, assuming all things are equal, a 75% chance of contributing to the Imperium. On the return, it's the same for Chaos v. Chaos and Chaos v. Xeno, but there's a much higher chance of Imperium v. Imperium and Imperium v. Xeno happening than Chaos v. Chaos or Chaos v. Xeno, just through virtue of player distribution.

Icculus wrote:This mission is very imbalanced. But mostly because of the attacker/defender split.

In this case, the defender needs to stay in their deployment zone, but the attacker doesnt have to invade.

Chaos has a lot of good close combat units, not so many shooting units. But the imperial player could take nothing but long range weaponry and artillery and do just fine. The chaos player will be forced to leave their deployment zone to try and kill stuff, but will then have to figure out how to get back in their zone by the end of the game.

If you're Chaos, it's half a kill point for having a single unit, like, I don't know, a Lascannon Predator or a squad of Rubrics hanging out in your zone.

Against Space Marines, it's the tiebreaker. Against anyone else it's not going to make a difference, since you're either going to be winning by a massive margin because you score double for each unit you kill or have been obliterated.

I just find it annoying that the win-rate is stuck perpetually at 60% Imperial. It never seems to budge. At this rate, the entire campaign is going to be Imperial Victory - 60%. That's not much of a story.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

GimbleMuggernaught wrote:I don`t think the mission is that bad, but I`m definitely salty about how they`ve handled this whole campaign. Marines get a new codex 2 weeks before chaos, plus a ton of new model releases, when painting a unit nets you a point gives a decent advantage to the imperium. Combine that with the fact that over half the armies of the game are imperial, and that roughly half of xenos players will be taking points from chaos, and I`m surprised chaos has done as well as they have.

The GW facebook page certainly doesn`t help, when people point out that marines have a codex and chaos won`t until next week and they reply sarcastically as if it won`t make a single bit of difference. It would be nice if they would at least acknowledge that it could and probably will make a difference.

It doesn't say you have to be Space Marines. You just have to add a new, painted model of that unit type to your army.

silentone2k wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
...
I'm not sure if you're upset about Chaos being slighted or Tyranids being slighted. Tyranids, Orks, and Eldar are definitely slighted, same for the Admech, Guard, Daemons, and Renegades. Chaos is certainly not slighted, and all the Xenos were already slighted by the very nature of the campaign ignoring them.

In fact, it's basically a straight-up balanced Kill Points vs. Kill Points game, with a tie being a Chaos win, as long as it's Space Marines on the opposing team.

What about necrons?


We get slighted so much we don't even get included in the list of slights...

It wasn't a comprehensive list. I didn't mention Tau or Dark Eldar either.

Did you miss that last week the requirement for getting double points was "Any Start Collecting box OR any Space Marine unit?"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
Also gives boosts for using heavy tanks to kill things, and encourages elites like meganobz and striking scorpions.

....If you play certain factions.

That's the problem with this mission. If you play MEQ (not even mentioning Imperial Knights for this mission lol), you win by default against any non-3+/2+ army.

If you play Guard, Eldar, Tau, Admech, or Nids, you can construct an army that works by leaning on the heavy stuff.

If you play Daemons, Harlequins, Dark Eldar, Genestealer Cult, Necrons, or Orks, you're basically fethed.

All this in service of an insanely boring mission setup. If there was a cool narrative or interesting mechanics going on, I could forgive imbalance. But "just do kill points" is as boring as it gets.

No disagreement there.

NARRATIVE campaign

...so now is a good time to bring a Warhound for the trololololo factor?

A Warhound would basically auto-win any kill points game. It only has to get one kill.

 Marmatag wrote:
Well at least the Space Marine codex didn't improve their lot in 8th edition. Still bottom of the barrel. Did you see where Ultramarines landed on the BAO rankings? Pretty abysmal for a faction that JUST got its codex, and no one else has one..

Is it that bad? I noticed that like a third of the marine points got slashed - most notably power fists went from 20 to 12. I honestly was perfectly fine with ork klaws being 5 points more than marine fists, as they are generally str 10 v str 8, but more than double seems a trifle harsh. Hope that gets addressed whenever GW gets around to orks.

 ross-128 wrote:
A Warhound would basically auto-win any kill points game. It only has to get one kill.

Yeah, pretty much

I wonder of the Hunker Down CP burn applies to all saves?

 Yarium wrote:
I just find it annoying that the win-rate is stuck perpetually at 60% Imperial. It never seems to budge. At this rate, the entire campaign is going to be Imperial Victory - 60%. That's not much of a story.

Wait you thought anyone influencing the result was real? The way everything has been set up so far points to a crushing Imperial victory to suit their new fancy space marine army men. Played a game today and almost lost even though we tabled the imperials...because they got double our points for every unit destroyed.