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2017/08/09 18:10:23
Subject: Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2017/08/09 18:22:37
Subject: Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
Only 137 shopping days until Christmas! I think they planned this announcement to come out later, but last minute decided to do it before the Nova Open.
2017/08/09 18:24:35
Subject: Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
Troops also get a bonus to holding objectives. This is a pretty solid bump to their power. Liking all of this so far, particularly GW's consistently pumping out fixes!
I guess I like the idea of playing games much more than playing them...
2017/08/09 18:29:18
Subject: Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
With only Troops having 'Objective Secured', we'll see the Vanguard, Spearhead and Outrider Detachments less and less as the 'primary' detachment of an army.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2017/08/09 18:32:38
Subject: Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
Granted, there are still problems (as there are in every edition) but I am liking how GW are actively trying to improve their game as opposed to taking your money for a rulebook and leaving you to make your own house rules.
Now if only they could make a rulebook that is (A) just a rulebook and (B) easy to navigate.
YMDC = nightmare
2017/08/09 18:42:06
Subject: Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
Ghaz wrote: With only Troops having 'Objective Secured', we'll see the Vanguard, Spearhead and Outrider Detachments less and less as the 'primary' detachment of an army.
Got to try to force the troop tax, or sales go down. I'm not sure your conclusion is true, however- for some armies, the extra killing power from not taking troops is probably still worth it.
And even in those detachments you can still have a couple troops to do the ObjSec job if you really want.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/09 18:42:50
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2017/08/09 18:45:39
Subject: Re:Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
Last up, we got our first look at Chapter Approved 2017, a new book on its way later this year.
We’ve said right from the start that the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 is one that we’d work to make even better over time. This is one of the ways that will happen. Each year, you’ll have a new Chapter Approved, expanding your gaming options and making what we think is already the best Warhammer 40,000 ever, even better.
Expect the first Chapter Approved book in time for Christmas.
It's the 40K version of the General's Handbook for AoS.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2017/08/09 18:56:39
Subject: Re:Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
Asmodai wrote: Well, this isn't good at all for my Sisters of Silence or Deathwing armies.
Could saying "Infantry" instead of "Troops" be that hard?
The whole point is that non-Troops infantry are relatively less useful if they don't have ObSec and Troops do, therefore encouraging people to take Troops. For armies like Deathwing you'll probably find that the DA Codex includes an option to make a Deathwing detachment and if all the models have the appropriate keyword then they get ObSec, or something like that.
“Do not ask me to approach the battle meekly, to creep through the shadows, or to quietly slip on my foes in the dark. I am Rogal Dorn, Imperial Fist, Space Marine, Emperor’s Champion. Let my enemies cower at my advance and tremble at the sight of me.”
-Rogal Dorn
2017/08/09 19:11:36
Subject: Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
What I find amusing is this is basically backtracking to cater to the competitive crowd that don't want to relearn a game. It's essentially making 8th a modified 7th edition.
- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame
2017/08/09 19:34:08
Subject: Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
With the timing, GW had to know this was coming out from the very beginning of 8th, don't you think? I feel like this was planned, not a reaction to the competitive crowd.
I think the changes are good, just not sure why they didn't come out with them in the core rules, rather than a separate book so soon after!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/09 19:35:09
2017/08/09 19:39:04
Subject: Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
RiTides wrote: With the timing, GW had to know this was coming out from the very beginning of 8th, don't you think? I feel like this was planned, not a reaction to the competitive crowd.
I think the changes are good, just not sure why they didn't come out with them in the core rules, rather than a separate book so soon after!
Why make a complete ruleset when you can fix it in drips and drabs and charge gamers every step of the way?
*adjusts tinfoil hat*
Probably looking for feedback in all honesty. They've done the same for the Generals Handbook (I think).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/09 19:40:01
YMDC = nightmare
2017/08/09 19:41:03
Subject: Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
Ghaz wrote: With only Troops having 'Objective Secured', we'll see the Vanguard, Spearhead and Outrider Detachments less and less as the 'primary' detachment of an army.
Got to try to force the troop tax, or sales go down.
Oh. My. Friggin. God.
Needing flyers isn't good for the game. It's only because they sold out of stormravens.
Making troops obsec isn't good for the game. It's just to sellING something else.
GW is apparently the most effective company at forcing people to buy every single model.
2017/08/09 19:43:11
Subject: Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
Frozocrone wrote: Probably looking for feedback in all honesty. They've done the same for the Generals Handbook (I think).
Yes, they had a post on Warhammer Community looking for feedback for the upcoming General's Handbook 2017.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/09 19:44:59
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2017/08/09 20:13:34
Subject: Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
I, for one, liked the ObjSec rule. They were already giving it to Troops units anyway (check SM, GK and CSM codexes).
Not that sure on the Flyer one... removed the last reason to use Remoras. Piranhas do their job way better (except for speed and firing Seeker Missiles at BS4+ on the move)
The initiative one makes MSU even more attractive... dunno if this is will be good for the game.
RiTides wrote: With the timing, GW had to know this was coming out from the very beginning of 8th, don't you think? I feel like this was planned, not a reaction to the competitive crowd.
I think the changes are good, just not sure why they didn't come out with them in the core rules, rather than a separate book so soon after!
Not necessarily. This Chapter Approved scheduled for Christmas likely isn't printed yet. Stuff on the website, they could've literally decided on today.
So while actually printed books in stores within 2-3 months (?) of people playing their first games of 8th Edition (i.e. the first handful of codicies) was likely finished before the official 8th Edition release, this likely is (and was planned as) the first response to the game being out in the wild, I would think.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/09 20:32:01
2017/08/09 20:34:52
Subject: Re:Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
Asmodai wrote: Well, this isn't good at all for my Sisters of Silence or Deathwing armies.
Could saying "Infantry" instead of "Troops" be that hard?
Yes, because "Infantry" also includes things like Terminators, Devastators, and such.
If Devastators can score, there's no reason Leman Russes or Carnifexes shouldn't.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/09 20:39:45
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2017/08/09 20:54:02
Subject: Re:Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
Giving Objective Secured to any IMPERIUM detachment is kind of stupid and totally negates the point of making it apply to "Space Marines" detachments. It should require TWO keywords in common, much like how the space marine codex needs <CHAPTER>and ADPETUS ASTARTES. Let's hope they change that.
Somewhat poor news for any Daemon players out there, as you won't benefit from Objective Secured.
It sounds like Daemons need an exception to the rule. I would think their allegiance would count as their faction but in terms of RAW this would cause problems with being able to put together for example Thousand Sons and Tzeentch Daemons and still get ObSec.
2017/08/09 20:55:32
Subject: Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
Somewhat poor news for any Daemon players out there, as you won't benefit from Objective Secured.
It sounds like Daemons need an exception to the rule. I would think their allegiance would count as their faction but in terms of RAW this would cause problems with being able to put together for example Thousand Sons and Tzeentch Daemons and still get ObSec.
No, no, don't be confused. Forgeworld FAQs literally call <Allegiance> faction keywords.
They're just stating they don't count.
Because reasons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/09 20:56:06
Somewhat poor news for any Daemon players out there, as you won't benefit from Objective Secured.
It sounds like Daemons need an exception to the rule. I would think their allegiance would count as their faction but in terms of RAW this would cause problems with being able to put together for example Thousand Sons and Tzeentch Daemons and still get ObSec.
No, no, don't be confused. Forgeworld FAQs literally call <Allegiance> faction keywords.
They're just stating they don't count.
Because reasons.
It's different because if <Allegiance> counts then so does <Imperium>, which is obviously not the intention based on Despoilers of the Galaxy and... whatever the SM rule was called. GW did a pretty poor job at writing a pretty well-intended rule, unfortunately.
2017/08/09 21:01:09
Subject: Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
I think the angle brackets indicate it's referring to the mutable keywords, so Ultramarines, Catachan, Behemoth, whatever. Imperium isn't one of them so it doesn't count.
2017/08/09 21:02:01
Subject: Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
Wayniac wrote: What I find amusing is this is basically backtracking to cater to the competitive crowd that don't want to relearn a game. It's essentially making 8th a modified 7th edition.
New != better. In pre-CA 8th, Troops are almost always objectively inferior to other choices, because they bring nothing you can't get elsewhere usually with some additional special rules on top, and because focusing on smaller elite armies to grab first turn was simply the superior way to build an army. Giving Troops ObSec again and having folk roll off for first turn albeit with a small bonus for elite armies solves both problems without having to radically change point values or rules for individual units.
And it's not just the "competitive crowd" that likes this change, I'll wager pickup gamers who prefer to build fluffy armies will love that their preferred way to play doesn't leave them fatally disadvantaged before the first dice is even rolled if they come up against an even moderately fluff-agnostic player who structure their army for effectiveness not background.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/09 21:03:30
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
2017/08/09 21:03:25
Subject: Chapter Approved coming soon- new 40K matched play rules
MasterSlowPoke wrote: I think the angle brackets indicate it's referring to the mutable keywords, so Ultramarines, Catachan, Behemoth, whatever. Imperium isn't one of them so it doesn't count.
That might be a good point though. I hope they make that clear.