Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So as the title implies, what are the best armies of this edition? What are the worst? Which ones benefitted the most? Which ones really got the bad end of the deal?

So far I've only played 2 non-competitive games. My first game was Imperial Guard vs Orcs at 35 power. The match was really close, although, in the end, my opponent won, possibly because I'm still not sure how 8th edition has changed up things.

My second game was Necrons vs Imperial Fists, also at 35 power. I played Necrons and completely tabled the Fists. The only losses I took were some warriors in a squad.

As far as I can tell, the armies seem to be much more balanced than before, but some armies have more advantages.

Orks took a big hit. The loss of blast and templates means that 5+ ballistic skill really hurts. Plus no more ard boys and special rules for bikers. And red ones don't go faster.

Looks like the fw heretics list got hurt pretty bad with random ld and low bs.

Personally, I think everyone's taken a hit until they get their Codex.

Don't get me started on how it's kinda scummy that Marines got their Codex during a massive campaign event. And I play Marines.

We'll know who really took the hits as soon as the other books drop. So far, my only complaint is that a Crusader Squad is genuinely nothing more than a big blob of bolters and such, and has no real purpose any more.

By all accounts, Orks got hit hard this release. Most of their units are either equal to or worse than they used to be, while most of their unit points-costs have increased.

Orks currently have one competitive build - Field as many boyz as you can fit on the table, and add Ghazghkull and a couple weirdboys and maybe a big mek for a forcefield if you want. 150+ boyz plus a handful of characters. Not a lot of fun to play as, but it might win a match.
You need to footslog them too, 'cos all the vehicles are overcosted. It's a shame.


Though I say that, I still love my orks. I still play deff dreads and killa kans, even though they have never actually been very good. In fact, I think they're some of the only units that improved (slightly) in 8th edition, but they're still far too expensive for how flimsy they are on the table.

Necrons I've heard have also dropped a bit in their competitiveness, though I haven't experienced it myself so ymmv.


As far as improved, Dark Eldar seem to be in a good place right now. They are still glass cannons, but even more so, and they have a lot of unit combinations that can be competitive. Eldar in general is still good, but they were before too so it's not really an "improvement".

Also, Imperial Guard seem to be the top of the heap right now, but whether that's only because of the conscript spam shenanigans... I wouldn't like to say.

Sisters benefited massively. A price decrease almost across the board, the vanguard move of dominions, super-cheap storm bolters-- more htan makes up for flamers being kinda meh on sisters now.

CSM are the best they've been in years. They still can't compete with most hyper competitive builds (the codex might for now, but probably won't last) but they are at least on par for most friendly games, which is a big plus.

H&R switched with IG, now IG is a power army and R&H is the outright weaker version.

Necrons cannot win unless the dice gods are in their favor.

 Sandro17 wrote:
Necrons cannot win unless the dice gods are in their favor.

Dude, come on- the C'tan have some goofy rules. I can't say my memory is great, but the last I remember it was something like 'Roll a D6, if it lands on the table just throw five of your opponent's models in the trash and win'.

Tau have taken a big hit this edition, with almost all of their battlesuits being overcosted or underwhelming. Only Commander spam is competitive.

Isn't the fact that orcs actually have a competitive build proof they got better?

 Sandro17 wrote:
Necrons cannot win unless the dice gods are in their favor.

Not true. I won my 2nd battle (75pl) with a hard Nec list vs Raven guard. Tactics. Know your list, use it to do tactics.

Ashlar wrote:

 Sandro17 wrote:
Necrons cannot win unless the dice gods are in their favor.

Not true. I won my 2nd battle (75pl) with a hard Nec list vs Raven guard. Tactics. Know your list, use it to do tactics.

im currently undeafeated locally with my crons, due to either luck or just outplaying my opponents. But competitively, we are terrible. We lost alot of mobility, durability and offensive punch in the index. The codex will hopefully address that, but currently if you put us up against an equally skilled player you're hoping the dice are favourable to you to win.

I actually agree that Necrons aren't as bad as people say they are. From my own admittedly limited experience, they can work well at least in some settings.

Guard is mainly just conscript spam that lets them work so well?

 deltaKshatriya wrote:
I actually agree that Necrons aren't as bad as people say they are. From my own admittedly limited experience, they can work well at least in some settings.

Guard is mainly just conscript spam that lets them work so well?

That's not it entirely, though it's a big part. Generally guard is very points effective across the board. Conscripts, scions, Taurox prime, ratlings, commissars, and a number of big guns are all cheaper than comparative options in other armies. That's why it's one of the only codices I expect to see more point increases than drops, in stark opposition to what we saw with CSM/SM.

Wow, I really disagree with the above posters. Orcs are my favorite and largest army (of 4). I think the orks got several buffs this edition. I will list a few at the end.

AstraMil IMO got the biggest buff with the addition of high wound tanjs that get saves with high damage guns to boot. Cheap bubbke wrap and some of the most punishing fliers in the game.

Loss of spawning/conjuring really hurt nids and daemons but the latter makes up for it with smite o rama and Magnus.

Primaris marines seem to be good and try finding a marine player NOT using guilliman. Wowsers hes good.

Imperium has multiple benies just having that faction keyword. Fluffy... sort of.

Crons got something abd gave something. Gauss isnt as cool as it used to be. Heck a lasgun or grot blaster is gauss now. The new RPs are kinda brutal to play against.

Ultimately, I think the biggest kick in the nuts is the Tau. The suits are soooo over costed IMO. Riptide is like a "lose button" now. I dont mind the nova so much, it hurts a lot more to use it. Losing buff mander too... fricking heck.... buuuummmmer. Kayun abd Montka is pretty good though admittedly.

Ok back to orks. They arent top tear but...

- First turn charges is pretty friggin amazing.
- Storm Boyz are soooo cheap now. So fast. So good in obj games.
- DaJump... nuff said there.
- Mob rule... finally back to reasonableness
- Ere we go was BRUTAL until they FAQd it. I made almost every charge.
- Morkanaut w KFF is so awesome as mobile LOS blocking, bullet magnet cover giver compared to it old rules. Soooo buffed.
- Ghaz... duh... badass buff
- Combined with Waaagh banner and that other Weirdboy Power! Major synergy.
- Shootas are Bababababaaaaack.
- DeffRollas still not as good as 5th, but still better.
- Kans arent just suicide bombers in your own line going off like popcorn anymore.
- Have you not seen the rules for the gargantuan Squiggoth?! Holy hell..
- Meka Dread can first turn charge with "Megacharga" MVP...
- Actually no... MVP belongs to the lowly grot that can now wound Imperial knights and are so good ar absorbing overwatch before the boys deliver the good good. Grots have armor now and a buffing rule that is hilarious.

- stompa.... ouch. The points... that nunber just was pulled from someones anus. Ridiculously overcosted.


Ok. Feel free to add salt to taste.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and the Truk? The trukks the live now? Are you kidding me? So much better than previous. Would like tge to be faster than a battlewagon though. Sup widat?

Nids gained the most. They were bottom of the barrel at the end of 7th and 8th has made basically every unit usable in some kind of a list and many units full blown great.

Right now nids biggest problem is figuring out the most effective way to trim back and focus their units because everything looks so good we want to take it all.

Eldar have certainly taken a hit although given their power in 7th, I can see why a change was needed. The problem is that they nerfed the high power units like the Wraithknight and Jetbikes but did nothing to bring the weak units (of which there are many) up to scratch. Expect to see a lot of Wraithguard, Dark Reapers and Wave Serpent spam until the new codex drop.

Space Wolves seem to have done better than expected. While TWC got a much needed reduction, the basics are pretty strong. Grey Hunters can now double-tap their bolters and charge with twice as many attacks as Tactical Marines and can double down on special weapons for just 1 extra point. Blood Claws now hit on a 3+ in combat which is good with all those attacks. Long Fangs can reroll 1s on their shooting. While slightly more expensive than Devastators, that ability is great since most other armies require an HQ character to babysit the squad to give them same effect.

Blood Angels suffered badly which is quite an achievement considering they were one of the weaker armies in 7th edition. The Angelus bolter and encarmine weapons are massively over-priced meaning it is cheaper and more powerful to run Sanguinary guard with plasma pistol and power fist than it is with their signature wargear. Furioso and DC Dreads both cost far more than Ironclads for no obvious benefit and can no longer ride in pods meaning they either need a ride in an expensive Storm Raven or have to walk to the enemy. Death Company are supposed to be our blender unit but are far weaker than Berserkers who cost the same points but hit much harder and can attack twice per turn. Dante is the weakest and also most expensive Chapter Master having no special rules to reresent his 1500 years of service to the Imperium. Sanguinary Priests and Company Veterans with Jump Packs are about the only things we have going for us at the moment. :(

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Tau have taken a big hit this edition, with almost all of their battlesuits being overcosted or underwhelming. Only Commander spam is competitive.

Yep. It's tau shooting in general being underwhelming almost across the board barring a few units and even then commander spam is half of your list then sprinkle in strikers and pathfinders and your done. That's all that is viable right now.

Niiru wrote:

Orks currently have one competitive build - Field as many boyz as you can fit on the table, and add Ghazghkull and a couple weirdboys and maybe a big mek for a forcefield if you want. 150+ boyz plus a handful of characters. Not a lot of fun to play as, but it might win a match.
You need to footslog them too, 'cos all the vehicles are overcosted. It's a shame.

This is true, Orks seems to have only one competitive build, but this is still one more competetive build than in 7th edition. Orks has been improved a LOT in 8th, but it still struggles in places. The new rules for cover hit Orks really hard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 deltaKshatriya wrote:

Guard is mainly just conscript spam that lets them work so well?

Guards are good across the board with the exception of most Leman russ variants. They have good horde infantry, good specialist infantry, amazing flyers, decent psykers, outstanding fire support, good T7 vehicles, inexpensive buff characters, and access to the spicy Imperium soup. The Leman russ battle tanks could do with a little buff, though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Best army is Guard flavoured imperium soup. Or just guard.

Most improved armies are: Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Chaos Space Marines and Harlequins

Most nerfed armies are: Craftworld Eldar and Necrons

 doktor_g wrote:

Primaris marines seem to be good and try finding a marine player NOT using guilliman. Wowsers hes good.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and the Truk? The trukks the live now? Are you kidding me? So much better than previous. Would like tge to be faster than a battlewagon though. Sup widat?

As a Minotaur Chapter player, I cannot bring myself to use Guilliman. It would pretty much be blasphemy to even think about being involved with anything Ultramarine.

The BEST army is imperial soup.

I don't think that'll change ever during the edition, the ability to just pick the best units of like 5 different armies is really strong though.

Conscript and Commissar screening a Gman Ultramarine shooting line for example.

Albeit pure AM is actually doing super well on its own, conscripts to screen and earthshakers everywhere to kill.

ETC 17 was dominated by stormravens (before Foot on the Ground errata) and marines with razorbacks and heavy support. Demons with princes and brimstones, as well as imperial guard with scions, mortars and psykers were also popular.

Tyranids with a mix of cult and hivefleet snuck under the radar.

I'd echo what a couple of people have said so far about codexes. There are clearly some units that aren't good enough, or are too good, but it looks like GW is trying to fix that when the books come out.

It looks like the SM, chaos and GK codexes will all produce pretty well-balanced and powerful armies. The indexes are full of weirdness. This degree of testing seems like a really good way of rebalancing the game.

Let's hope we see more of the same with the index astartes books. I think there's a bit of impalance in the new SM stuff (the redemptor isn't great and some options, like the heavy hellblasters, are pretty bad).

malcontent999 wrote:
Orks took a big hit. The loss of blast and templates means that 5+ ballistic skill really hurts. Plus no more ard boys and special rules for bikers. And red ones don't go faster.

Looks like the fw heretics list got hurt pretty bad with random ld and low bs.

95% of R&H players were just IG players using the list that was the most powerful, and now they've switched back to Guard and still have a strong list with the same models and playstyle.

it's like all those poor, dedicated White Scars and Iron Hands marine players who happened to crop up in 7th when Gladius was powerful.

(disclaimer, this does not exclude the existence of dedicated players of these factions, merely pointing out that there are many factions that have nearly disappeared overnight because a large number of their playerbase were just competitive army-hoppers.)

I second the SoB being boosted up big time in 8th. Celestine is a monster, Dominions are excellent, Immolators are excellent, basic battle squads are cheap and decent, the Canoness is cheap and fairly good, Retributors are better than average, and with Faith and 4 Inferno pistols Seraphim are so amazing they teeter on the edge of being OP.

I think IG and SoB gained quite a bit.

Nice to see IG infantry being viable again for the first time in about 3 editions.

DE seem to have improved in terms of power-level, but their already-shallow flavour has been cut to the bone.

Necrons have lost options every edition and this one was no exception. RPs are significantly weaker, though they're more fluffy at least. However, the lack of RPs on characters rather ruins that particular fluff. Also, a lot of their stuff seems overpriced now and I think some of their Gauss weapons need looking at.

Corsairs have been killed off entirely (thanks, GW, I'm glad I spent ages converting that Winged Corsair Prince), so I'd lean towards saying they're the worst off.

No idea about other races.

Vastly by FAR most improved - Imperium

Well improved - Tyranids

Pretty nerfed - Pretty much everyone else

Nids became a Top Tier Army IMO

Orks became a mid tier army because their melee seems to have improved with extra choppa attacks

I think Dark Eldar came out pretty shiny, all things considered. Harlequins are absolute beasts right now. Corsairs, on the other hand, got gutted. Of course, all these could change in the near future.

I'm a little unsure about tanks for IG still. Punishers are still really good, especially at horde control. I haven't tried any other variants yet. Demolishers look to be pretty good. Battle tanks are average. Vanquishers are only good if the dice roll in your favor.

I've just constantly heard that conscript spam is the best way to go for IG. Haven't heard any other strategies so far.